Another WLS tragedy

I have been reading this news groups on occasion since late last year, but
normally have no desire to get involved, but this thread is idiotic, or
rather some of the responses to it are idiotic.

The only people who are successful with WLS could have been successful
without it. It requires the same degree of discipline to maintain long term
weight after WLS as it would to lose the weight in a sensible way.

WLS is just another method for the medical profession to milk more money out
of total losers. It never works long term, because it hasn't fixed the
problem, the problem being the pathetic weak willed loser that can't stop
shovelling [censored] down its throat.

Back in 2001 I was dating a surgeon, not one who specialized in WLS, but at
a social evening a few of his friends who did a lot of WLS opened my eyes to
their attitude. Do you know how they referred to patients? The called them
"Born again Blimps", and would make guesses as to how long before their
overeating and sedentary lifestyle would require further medical
intervention. WLS is the worst of all elective vanity surgery, because it is
an attempt to repair a character not a physical problem. Character's can't
be repaired except by the person who has the flawed character themselves.
BTW, regardless of the usual BS, WLS *is* vanity surgery. It isn't
"lifesaving", in that the threat to life comes from the patient, not an
external medical or physiological problem.

If any of you are going to solve your problems, then learn to recognize your
problems and stop kidding yourselves. For everyone on these diet news groups
who manages to gain a degree of success there are a dozen procrastinating
lard asses who spend years on a diet and don't lose the weight, or who lose
it and immediately regain it. They are the ones who manage to find an
external reason for everything negative that happens in their lives. If they
get booked speeding it was the cop's fault. If they miss a plane it was the
airline's fault. If they get fat, it was ?????'s fault.

Find the fault, look in the mirror and find the fault, then fix the fault.
To hell with new diets and excuses. FIX THE FAULT!

L.

I'm sure the PCRM could. <EG>

In news:[email hidden],
Myra <[email hidden]> stated
|
| Show me one damn obituary or death announcement of someone who died
| from low carbing. Just one.
|
| Myra

On 10 Jul 2005 20:16:35 -0700, "Laureen" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm you know who arent I Myra?? LOL. But who's on first? ROFL Ya know
Myra, you could never say anything that would make me dislike you. I
love you as much as my most favorite shoes.

Well, I made a promise, and I'm going to keep it, dammit! LOL!

Quoted message said:

I know how you feel. You know why I did it and we both have our opinion
about it but we's still friends.

Exactly, and what posts I make on the subject have nothing to do with
you. As I keep having to tell people here!

Myra

On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:14:55 +1000, Liza Jamison <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The only people who are successful with WLS could have been successful
without it. It requires the same degree of discipline to maintain long term
weight after WLS as it would to lose the weight in a sensible way.

It's really a pity that you took a lot of sensible advice and
completely destroyed it with:

Quoted message said:

It never works long term, because it hasn't fixed the
problem, the problem being the pathetic weak willed loser that can't stop
shovelling [censored] down its throat.

It's so easy to look at fat people and call them weak willed or losers
instead of reaching a *logical* and *scientific* conclusion that there
may be some other actual cause of obesity. I suspect there's a
biological malfunction that causes certain foods to put into body fat
storage instead of body nutrition.

Do you think people with Prader-Willi syndrome are "pathetic weak
willed" losers? How about the three people diagnosed with MOMO -
another body growth disorder?

One day, scientists will put the pieces of the puzzle together, and
historians will look back on this period as the dark age of obesity,
when fat people were not only treated as sub-human, but medical
treatment was about as good as it was 1500 years ago.

Quoted message said:

Find the fault, look in the mirror and find the fault, then fix the fault.
To hell with new diets and excuses. FIX THE FAULT!

I would say that would be the proper cure for a bad soul. You might
want to try it some day.

Myra

"Jennifer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Interesting.

That's what JC would have said.

I had that exact same thought.

Rich

"It's so easy to look at fat people and call them weak willed or losers

instead of reaching a *logical* and *scientific* conclusion that there
may be some other actual cause of obesity. I suspect there's a
biological malfunction that causes certain foods to put into body fat
storage instead of body nutrition. "

And it's pretty strange seeing this from someone who condemns WLS for
everyone. It's apparent you've made up your mind and think you can
speak for everyone else. I'm not a fan of WLS, but I think for some
people who are extremely obese, it may be there only choice for a near
normal life. You seem to think it can all be done through will power.
What makes you so sure this is the case?

And as Peter has pointed out, there are risks associated with
everything we do in life. There are tradeoffs. Take cosmetic plastic
surgery as an example. While the serious complication and mortality
rates are a lot lower than WLS, so are the benefits in many cases. Yet
millions have undergone the procedures. It could be argued that for a
face lift, the risk for those procedures is way out of line with the
benefit and no one should ever have it done either, because some will
die.

And how do you explain people like Al Roker? He's obviously an
intelligent very successful guy. He had WLS and it's worked very well
for him. I don't see him running around claiming a greedy surgeon took
advantage of him. The bottom line is people have to make their own
informend decisions about what's right for them personally. And I
think for some, WLS may be the right choice.

FOB <[email hidden]> wrote:
|| I'm sure the PCRM could. <EG>
||

That's a joke, right.... BJ

--
--
"No generalization is worth a damn, including this one" --
George Bernard Shaw

nanner <[email hidden]> wrote:
|| "Marengo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
|| news:QshAe.44687$rb6.37617@lakeread07...
||| Myra wrote:
|||
||||| To those of you contemplating WLS, I beg you - PLEASE
||||| DON'T DO IT. There are worse things than being fat - like
||||| being dead. .
|||||
||||| Myra
|||
|||
||| Rubbish.
|||
||| One can present worst-case scenarios with any procedure and
||| give the same grossly exagerated impression. Believe it or
||| not, there are some intelligent folks on this NG who
||| actually think for themselves and don't fall for these
||| sophomoric scare tactics.
|||
||| Using your logic, one could also say:
||| "- To those of you who are contemplating driving, I beg you
||| - PLEASE DON'T DO IT because many people are horribly
||| mutilated and killed in car accidents --You can walk and get
||| there safely without driving. There are worse things than
||| being late -- like being dead."
|||
||| Doctors recommend WLS as a last resort for their patients
||| who face greater mortal danger from their morbid obesity.
||| They recommend and exhaust other means of weight loss first.
||| The surgery (as Laureen can attest) is done only after
||| detailed evaluation of the individual and his/her situation.
||| They are given psychological counseling. The patient is
||| made aware of the risks involved vs. the benefits. It is
||| not a simple procdure and it involves months of diets
||| afterward of no solid foods. People who endure WLS know what
||| they are getting into -- armed with FAR more information
||| than your second-hand anecdotal stories.
||
|| You might like to think this but a woman that works with DH
|| just had WLS. She barely met the weight requiement and her
|| and her doctor flubbed her height by an inch or so to make it
|| work. Anyway - the woman decided to go for WLS because, in
|| her words - she "can't stick to a diet"
||
|| A week after returning to work DH thinks he saw her eating
|| potato chips, i don't see how that would be "allowed" but WTF
|| do I know about it.
||
|| In my opinion this woman and her doctor are both morons.
||

True but the doctor is a richer moron... :-) BJ

--
--
"No generalization is worth a damn, including this one" --
George Bernard Shaw

Quoted message said:

"It's so easy to look at fat people and call them weak willed or losers

instead of reaching a *logical* and *scientific* conclusion that there
may be some other actual cause of obesity. I suspect there's a
biological malfunction that causes certain foods to put into body fat
storage instead of body nutrition. "

And it's pretty strange seeing this from someone who condemns WLS for
everyone. It's apparent you've made up your mind and think you can
speak for everyone else. I'm not a fan of WLS, but I think for some
people who are extremely obese, it may be there only choice for a near
normal life. You seem to think it can all be done through will power.
What makes you so sure this is the case?

I admittedly know next to nothing about this procedure, except the
little I've heard on TV and here on this group. I've never considered
it, so haven't investigated it, but I also don't believe in having
"elective" or "cosmetic" surgery.

But from what I *have* seen, it would seem to me that people who undergo
this procedure lead anything *but* a "normal life" post-op. Frankly it
sounds horrible, even if there are no complications!

Quoted message said:

And as Peter has pointed out, there are risks associated with
everything we do in life. There are tradeoffs. Take cosmetic plastic
surgery as an example. While the serious complication and mortality
rates are a lot lower than WLS, so are the benefits in many cases. Yet
millions have undergone the procedures. It could be argued that for a
face lift, the risk for those procedures is way out of line with the
benefit and no one should ever have it done either, because some will
die.

This comparison doesn't work. If anything, it makes matters worse.

You first argue possible medical necessity for WLS, then use cosmetic
plastic surgery as your example? Since you don't say anything about
these procedures for people who have been disfigured, for whatever
reason, and you specifically reference face lifts, are you seriously
trying to compare the two?

Wrinkles are a part of normal life, it's face lifts that are not.

Quoted message said:

And how do you explain people like Al Roker? He's obviously an
intelligent very successful guy. He had WLS and it's worked very well
for him. I don't see him running around claiming a greedy surgeon took
advantage of him. The bottom line is people have to make their own
informend decisions about what's right for them personally. And I
think for some, WLS may be the right choice.

People do have the right to make their own informed decisions, but I'm
not sure their education is well served by using Al Roker as an example?
Is it because his is a household name? He had WLS and he's not
whining, so it's a "good thing"?

In that case, for cosmetic plastic surgery, how do you explain people
like Michael Jackson? Oh, wait . . . That one didn't work out too well
.. . .

--
July Goals: BG readings in normal range; Not hungry, don't eat
Weight: 16 Pounds Gone (6 of them twice) 06/12/2005
Measurements: 8 inches gone 06/19/2005
Cholesterol: 145
FBG: < 100 since 07/01/2005 A1c 6.5

Some people win the jackpot at a casino, too, that doesn't mean gambling is
a smart way to make money.

In news:[email hidden],
[email hidden] <[email hidden]> stated
|
| And how do you explain people like Al Roker? He's obviously an
| intelligent very successful guy. He had WLS and it's worked very well
| for him. I don't see him running around claiming a greedy surgeon
| took advantage of him. The bottom line is people have to make their
| own informend decisions about what's right for them personally. And I
| think for some, WLS may be the right choice.

<EG> means evil grin, so yes.

In news:[email hidden],
BJ in Texas <[email hidden]> stated
| FOB <[email hidden]> wrote:
||| I'm sure the PCRM could. <EG>
|||
|
| That's a joke, right.... BJ
|
| --
| --
| "No generalization is worth a damn, including this one" --
| George Bernard Shaw

Too bad you decided to get involved in this thread. The thread is fine,
you're the idiot.

--
Cheri

Liza Jamison wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

I have been reading this news groups on occasion since late last year,

but

Quoted message said:

normally have no desire to get involved, but this thread is idiotic, or
rather some of the responses to it are idiotic.

"You first argue possible medical necessity for WLS, then use cosmetic
plastic surgery as your example? Since you don't say anything about
these procedures for people who have been disfigured, for whatever
reason, and you specifically reference face lifts, are you seriously
trying to compare the two? "

Yes,.because it's a perfectly valid comparison. If people want to get
hysterical about the possible complications from WLS, then why not do
the same thing about cosmetic surgery? The whole point of the
comparison is that it can't even be argued that cosmetic surgery like a
face lift or a tummy tuck is medically necessary. Yet millions have
had it, and plenty have died from complications. So, why rant on about
WLS and not cosmetic surgery too?

"People do have the right to make their own informed decisions, but I'm

not sure their education is well served by using Al Roker as an
example?
Is it because his is a household name? He had WLS and he's not
whining, so it's a "good thing"?

It just shows that some very intelligent people, like Al Roker have
come to their own reasoned decision. And it is a good example to
counter the hysteria that it's something way out, that no sane person
should consider.

"Some people win the jackpot at a casino, too, that doesn't mean
gambling is
a smart way to make money. "

It's not a question of jackpots or casinos. Al Roker is an example
of someone who looked at the medical information, the risks, the
benefitrs, his own situation, and came to a reasoned decision that WLS
was right for him. He's a direct example of how someone intelligent
could evaluate things and come to a completely different decision than
the notion that WLS is evil.

It is hard to believe that it was only 6 months ago, when I caught a lot of
flak suggesting that the talk of WLS might lead others to do something
dangerous.

I was not familiar with the 30% dead at 5 years WLS statistic. Also, while
I had heard some re-learned overeating, I did not know that it was 50%.

I had a friend that died in his sleep, apparently from his obesity. He was
in his 30s. I also have a cousin who is getting very large. Nobody has
said what she weighs, but I'm guessing 400. I find the idea of WLS so very
disturbing. I also find facelifts and boobjobs revolting.

I had hoped Hoodia would be the magic answer to the expansion of America.
However, I'm not seeing a positive reaction to the Hoodia products. I tried
one capsule, out of curiosity, and I felt like I was on some weird drug.
Hoodia is not catching on as I expected. Something must be wrong with it.

Today, the mailman asked me how I lost the weight. I mentioned Atkins, but
he didn't seem to be happy with that.

It is so frustrating.

"Myra" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Jennifer said:

Laureen said:

Funny you should mention potato chips. We had a lady in our support
group mention she made a recipe with a crushed potato chip topping andd
us she polished off the crumbs in the bag and it didnt bother her. I
was like WTF?? I looked right at her and told her "C's are not low fat
low carb or nutritious. NoChippy Chips Jeannnie!!!!!"

Interesting.

That's what JC would have said.

Really? You think JC would say, "no chippy chips, Jeannie"?

Sounds a bit twee for JC.

Martha

--
Sig pending

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

"You first argue possible medical necessity for WLS, then use cosmetic
plastic surgery as your example? Since you don't say anything about
these procedures for people who have been disfigured, for whatever
reason, and you specifically reference face lifts, are you seriously
trying to compare the two? "

Yes,.because it's a perfectly valid comparison. If people want to get
hysterical about the possible complications from WLS, then why not do
the same thing about cosmetic surgery? The whole point of the
comparison is that it can't even be argued that cosmetic surgery like a
face lift or a tummy tuck is medically necessary. Yet millions have
had it, and plenty have died from complications. So, why rant on about
WLS and not cosmetic surgery too?

<snipped>

Because WLS has a far higher death rate?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

x-no-archive: yes

Cubit said:

It is hard to believe that it was only 6 months ago, when I caught a lot of
flak suggesting that the talk of WLS might lead others to do something
dangerous.

I was not familiar with the 30% dead at 5 years WLS statistic.

Does anyone know how that number compares to the five year mortality
rate for the morbidly obese, over 400 lbs, say?

Also, while

Quoted message said:

I had heard some re-learned overeating, I did not know that it was 50%.

Weight loss is hard to achieve, and hard to maintain. Morbidly obese
folks have likely metabolic/hormonal influences that drive their hunger.

Susan

"Susan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Weight loss is hard to achieve, and hard to maintain.

No.

Quoted message said:

Morbidly obese
folks have likely metabolic/hormonal influences that drive their hunger.

Not even close.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes,.because it's a perfectly valid comparison. If people want to get
hysterical about the possible complications from WLS, then why not do
the same thing about cosmetic surgery? The whole point of the
comparison is that it can't even be argued that cosmetic surgery like a
face lift or a tummy tuck is medically necessary. Yet millions have
had it, and plenty have died from complications. So, why rant on about
WLS and not cosmetic surgery too?

Maybe because the TOPIC of this newsgroup is weight loss?

Rich