Sundays Age

ProfTournesol said:

imagine if we reversed BV's strategy and organised a Drive to Work Day for cyclists, again with bikes on roof racks/bike beak etc.

Pah! Discrimination against those of us (freaks) who don't hold a license! Bikesoiler & I will carshare though. Others quite welcome, we could fit another 2-3 on the subary + roof racks. 🙂

On 2005-08-07, ProfTournesol (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

How about a mass weekend drive down Beach Road instead of a cycle? If
we picked one weekend, all drove at 40 km/hr with bikes mounted on the
car to identify us as cyclists, we could show that:
we are a large group when acting collectively
we (mostly) all drive and pay registration fees
if we chose to drive rather than cycle we would be adding considerably
to traffic congestion.

imagine if even half of the 6000 cyclists a wekend day did this in an
organised fashion, (but didn't break any road rules), even Channel 7
would struggle to vilify us.

That's a [censored] brilliant idea.

I know BV are unresponsive to this kind of thing, but that would be
the place to advertise such a "protest".

Or I wonder how many Melbourne audience cyclingnews has?

This would actually make me want to borrow a car for a day 🙂

--
TimC
"Thanks to the joint efforts of OpenOffice, Mozilla, and a few others, Emacs
officially entered the category of lightweight utilities." -- kalifa on /.

cfsmtb said:

Pah! Discrimination against those of us (freaks) who don't hold a license! Bikesoiler & I will carshare though. Others quite welcome, we could fit another 2-3 on the subary + roof racks. 🙂

imagine, 1000 or so cars driving at the speed limit bumper to bumper down Beach Road - point made I think.

DaveB said:

Before going down the path of fixing the problem, it might be a good
idea to define what the problem actually is. I think we'd all agree that
the majority of drivers are ok with cyclists, not perfect but ok (much
the same as the cycling community). So there's probably not much point
in directing a campaign at all drivers. At the other end of the scale we
have the ratbags who are going to be aresholes on the road regardless of
what anybody says, and not just to cyclists, but to pedestrians and
other car drivers as well. So who is left, and what exactly do we want
them to do.

When we know what we want to achieve then is the time to work out how to
do it. Handing out bumper stickers to nice drivers is a nice gesture,
but what is it going to change? I'd say it has about as much impact as
one of those "Free Tibet" stickers, the Chinese govt must be shaking in
their boots everytime they see one of those. I'm all for action, but
there's got to be some logic behind it.

DaveB

Well, I haven't given up on Tibet, either 🙂 Frankly, the problem seems pretty clear there. And really? I don't think the problems I face as a cyclist come anywhere near the problems faced in Tibet... but, even so...

Clearly there are a bunch of motorists that aren't a problem - but saying thankyou to them isn't going to hurt too much. And clearly there are a bunch of motorists (less, but more dangerous!) who aren't going to change no matter what. They aren't just [censored] on the road. They are just [censored]. On my commute there is usually a few each day who seem to dither between "do I cut her off or can I wait a moment and she won't have to hit the brakes?" I think these are the ones that can actually be encouraged.

What are your suggestions? Do you agree there is a problem? And if there is, what do you see the problem being? How do you suggest responding?

cheers,
Ali

ProfTournesol said:

imagine if we reversed BV's strategy and organised a Drive to Work Day for cyclists, again with bikes on roof racks/bike beak etc.

I think this is a great idea. But... any chance of car-pooling? We don't all have licenses, and some of us don't have cars. 😉

ali

alison_b said:

I think this is a great idea. But... any chance of car-pooling? We don't all have licenses, and some of us don't have cars. 😉

ali

as long as there is one bike for each rider on a car the point will be made.

ProfTournesol said:

as long as there is one bike for each rider on a car the point will be made.

I really do like the idea... puts the "one less car" idea out there in a pretty material form.

thanks,
ali

alison_b said:

I really do like the idea... puts the "one less car" idea out there in a pretty material form.

thanks,
ali

It would only be effective if we did it 'en masse' and broke no road rules. imagine channel & selectively showing 2 seconds of the only car traveling through a red light.......

alison_b said:

Well, I haven't given up on Tibet, either 🙂 Frankly, the problem
seems pretty clear there. And really? I don't think the problems I
face as a cyclist come anywhere near the problems faced in Tibet...
but, even so...

Clearly there are a bunch of motorists that aren't a problem - but
saying thankyou to them isn't going to hurt too much. And clearly
there are a bunch of motorists (less, but more dangerous!) who aren't
going to change no matter what. They aren't just [censored] on the
road. They are just [censored]. On my commute there is usually a few
each day who seem to dither between "do I cut her off or can I wait a
moment and she won't have to hit the brakes?" I think these are the
ones that can actually be encouraged.

What are your suggestions? Do you agree there is a problem? And if
there is, what do you see the problem being? How do you suggest
responding?

cheers,
Ali

My point was that you need to work out what the problem you are trying
to fix is, then what it would take to resolve that problem, and finally
the method to fix it. Personally I don't think there is a problem to be
fixed. There is trouble between cyclists and drivers, just as there is
trouble between pedestrians, motorcyclists, cyclists, rollerbalders,
drivers, and other drivers. So what. If people want to try and change
that I don't have a problem with that, I'm just suggesting you work
through it logically so you get the outcome you want. And if I could see
a useful result I would participate. That's why I was there for the
Wheels of Justice ride, because I could see that concerted protests
could influence a government. But I can't see any protests affecting the
conflict on the roads because it is not that simple.

As for the Save Tibet stickers, as far as I'm concerned their sole
purpose is to make people feel good about themselves without actually
going to any effort to change the situation, in much the same way I view
CM rides, and most protests (unless they are for a specific purpose).

DaveB

alison_b said:

Well, I haven't given up on Tibet, either 🙂 Frankly, the problem
seems pretty clear there. And really? I don't think the problems I
face as a cyclist come anywhere near the problems faced in Tibet...
but, even so...

Clearly there are a bunch of motorists that aren't a problem - but
saying thankyou to them isn't going to hurt too much. And clearly
there are a bunch of motorists (less, but more dangerous!) who aren't
going to change no matter what. They aren't just [censored] on the
road. They are just [censored]. On my commute there is usually a few
each day who seem to dither between "do I cut her off or can I wait a
moment and she won't have to hit the brakes?" I think these are the
ones that can actually be encouraged.

What are your suggestions? Do you agree there is a problem? And if
there is, what do you see the problem being? How do you suggest
responding?

cheers,
Ali

My point was that you need to work out what the problem you are trying
to fix is, then what it would take to resolve that problem, and finally
the method to fix it. Personally I don't think there is a problem to be
fixed. There is trouble between cyclists and drivers, just as there is
trouble between pedestrians, motorcyclists, cyclists, rollerbalders,
drivers, and other drivers. So what. If people want to try and change
that I don't have a problem with that, I'm just suggesting you work
through it logically so you get the outcome you want. And if I could see
a useful result I would participate. That's why I was there for the
Wheels of Justice ride, because I could see that concerted protests
could influence a government. But I can't see any protests affecting the
conflict on the roads because it is not that simple.

As for the Save Tibet stickers, as far as I'm concerned their sole
purpose is to make people feel good about themselves without actually
going to any effort to change the situation, in much the same way I view
CM rides, and most protests (unless they are for a specific purpose).

DaveB

ProfTournesol said:

How about a mass weekend drive down Beach Road instead of a cycle? If we picked one weekend, all drove at 40 km/hr with bikes mounted on the car to identify us as cyclists, we could show that:
we are a large group when acting collectively
we (mostly) all drive and pay registration fees
if we chose to drive rather than cycle we would be adding considerably to traffic congestion.

imagine if even half of the 6000 cyclists a wekend day did this in an organised fashion, (but didn't break any road rules), even Channel 7 would struggle to vilify us.

FINALLY! something constructive!! Great idea PT 😄

it has merit and is just simple enough to send a clear message

flyingdutch said:

FINALLY! something constructive!! Great idea PT 😄

it has merit and is just simple enough to send a clear message

would perhaps make for a strong image if all cars ended up at Parliament steps. Be rather ironic all them damn rego-paying cars congesting the area like that, taking up a whole lane

whatabout flying a yellow/green ribbon off the aerial for Amy and others?
(like the police-killed-in-line-of-duty ribbons...)

So...

Proposal of date/time, anyone?

quote='DaveB'alison_b said:

Well, I haven't given up on Tibet, either 🙂 Frankly, the problem
seems pretty clear there. And really? I don't think the problems I
face as a cyclist come anywhere near the problems faced in Tibet...
but, even so...

Clearly there are a bunch of motorists that aren't a problem - but
saying thankyou to them isn't going to hurt too much. And clearly
there are a bunch of motorists (less, but more dangerous!) who aren't
going to change no matter what. They aren't just [censored] on the
road. They are just [censored]. On my commute there is usually a few
each day who seem to dither between "do I cut her off or can I wait a
moment and she won't have to hit the brakes?" I think these are the
ones that can actually be encouraged.

What are your suggestions? Do you agree there is a problem? And if
there is, what do you see the problem being? How do you suggest
responding?

cheers,
Ali

My point was that you need to work out what the problem you are trying
to fix is, then what it would take to resolve that problem, and finally
the method to fix it. Personally I don't think there is a problem to be
fixed. There is trouble between cyclists and drivers, just as there is
trouble between pedestrians, motorcyclists, cyclists, rollerbalders,
drivers, and other drivers. So what. If people want to try and change
that I don't have a problem with that, I'm just suggesting you work
through it logically so you get the outcome you want. And if I could see
a useful result I would participate. That's why I was there for the
Wheels of Justice ride, because I could see that concerted protests
could influence a government. But I can't see any protests affecting the
conflict on the roads because it is not that simple.

As for the Save Tibet stickers, as far as I'm concerned their sole
purpose is to make people feel good about themselves without actually
going to any effort to change the situation, in much the same way I view
CM rides, and most protests (unless they are for a specific purpose).

DaveB[/QUOTE]
so, if there is no problem to be fixed, as far as you can see... why not just say "all is as peachy as can be expected"? If you're happy with the way things are on the roads when you're cycling then more power to you. Perhaps you could share your secret? Clearly we differ. I don't think that's a big drama, I'm not expecting anybody who is happy with the current state of affairs to do anything but go about their business.

As far as Tibet, you know sweet FA about me. If you do actually go to some effort to change the situation then pleased to meet you.

cheers,
Ali

alison_b said:

so, if there is no problem to be fixed, as far as you can see... why
not just say "all is as peachy as can be expected"? If you're happy
with the way things are on the roads when you're cycling then more
power to you. Perhaps you could share your secret? Clearly we differ.

The roads are full of stress, and I save my battles for where they can
make a difference.

Quoted message said:

As far as Tibet, you know sweet FA about me. If you do actually go to
some effort to change the situation then pleased to meet you.

At what point did I say anything peronal about you and Tibet? None at
all. My point was around bumper stickers and their effectiveness
(explained three times now) , but if you want to take it personally,
knock yourself out.

DaveB "killfile updated"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "flyingdutch" == flyingdutch <[email hidden]> writes:

flyingdutch flyingdutch said:

Quoted message said:

FINALLY! something constructive!! Great idea PT 😄

it has merit and is just simple enough to send a clear message

flyingdutch> would perhaps make for a strong image if all cars ended
flyingdutch> up at Parliament steps. Be rather ironic all them damn
flyingdutch> rego-paying cars congesting the area like that, taking
flyingdutch> up a whole lane

flyingdutch> whatabout flying a yellow/green ribbon off the aerial
flyingdutch> for Amy and others? (like the
flyingdutch> police-killed-in-line-of-duty ribbons...)

flyingdutch> So...

flyingdutch> Proposal of date/time, anyone?

Before we get to that, shouldn't we figure out how we're going to get
the word out about it?

The McGee affair was a highly charged affair. Due to the excellent
efforts of a small number of people we mustered up 3-500 people and it
got a bit of news.

Imagine if we can get 2,000 people to do this? That won't just make the
local news, that could well go international.

So who's got the social network to get the word out to the people that
use Beach Road? How do we get this communicated to the people it's
going to affect? I believe we need to work that out before we pick a
date.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

DaveB said:

At what point did I say anything peronal about you and Tibet? None at all.

"As for the Save Tibet stickers, as far as I'm concerned their sole
purpose is to make people feel good about themselves without actually
going to any effort to change the situation"

By implication you are saying that Alison's Tibet bumper stickers made her
feel good about the situation without her actually making any effort to
change the situation. That's how she's read it anyway. She may actually be
quite active re. the Tibetan people. I don't know.

Quoted message said:

My point was around bumper stickers and their effectiveness (explained
three times now) , but if you want to take it personally, knock yourself
out.

DaveB "killfile updated"

A bit harsh don't you think, to killfile her over such a tiff. She did say
she could be pleased to meet you :-O

Cheers
Peter

*Claps hands again*

Ladies, Gentlemen, enough.

Go to bedibyes - now!

Thank you 🙂

quote='Peter Signorini''TimC said:

And is it 4 wide per lane? (I can't imagine we are banned from riding
2 per lane for an arbitrary amount of lanes).

So have 3 sets of these pace lines going down a 3 lane highway.

No luck :-{ In this case lanes don't matter. 2 abreast is the limit for any
road, and 2+2 when overtaking.

Cheers
Peter[/QUOTE]
Pete, read the rule again....it is confusing but I read what you say and I don't agree..

Rule 151 (1) applies to say "must not ride on a road that is not a multilane road etc...." meaning, single lane roads or single marked lanes in multi laned roads.... see reference to excluding multilane roads below , so thus you ride two abreast on a single lane road, or two abreast in any marked lane, not that you cant ride in the remaining marked line...there is no reference to excluding riders from the remaining marked lane(s), therefore theoretically, (and legally) on say Beach Road at a two lane section, two pace lines each in their lane can move side by side and each can be overtaken by a single rider ( in each lane) thus 6 riders can ride abreast providing two ( one in each lane) are overtaking).....
essentially permitting what channel 7 filmed from the air and screened recently ..... Rule follows:-

quote:

[font=Times New Roman][left]151. Riding a motor bike or bicycle alongside more than 1 other rider
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left](1) The rider of a motor bike or bicycle must not ride on a road that is not a multilane road alongside more than 1 other rider, unless subrule (3) applies to the rider.
[/left]
[left]Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left]Note [/font][b][font=Arial]Bicycle[/b][/font][i][font=Arial], [/font][b][font=Arial]motor bike [/b][/i][/font][i][font=Arial]and [/font][b][font=Arial]multi-lane road [/b][/i][/font][i][font=Arial]are defined in the dictionary, and [/font][b][font=Arial]rider [/b][/i][/font][font=Arial]is defined in rule 17.
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left](2) The rider of a motor bike or bicycle must not ride in a marked lane alongside more than 1 other rider in the marked lane, unless subrule (3) applies to the rider.
[/left]
[left]Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left]Note [/font][b][font=Arial]Marked lane [/b][/font][font=Arial]is defined in the dictionary.
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left](3) The rider of a motor bike or bicycle may ride alongside more than 1 other rider if the
[/left]
[left]rider is—
[/left]
[left](a) overtaking the other riders; or
[/left]
[left](b) permitted to do so under regulation 403 of the Road Safety (Road Rules)
[/left]
[left]Regulations 1999.
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left]Note [/font][b][font=Arial]Overtake [/b][/font][font=Arial]is defined in the dictionary.
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left](4) If the rider of a motor bike or bicycle is riding on a road that is not a multi-lane road alongside another rider, or in a marked lane alongside another rider in the marked lane, the rider must ride not over 1.5 metres from the other rider.
[/left]
[left]Penalty: 1 penalty unit.
[/left]
[left](5) In this rule—
[/left]
[/font][b][font=Arial][left]road [/b][/font][font=Arial]does not include a road related area, but includes a bicycle path, shared path and
[/left]
[left]any shoulder of the road.
[/left]
[/font][font=Arial][left]Note [/font][b][font=Arial]Bicycle path [/b][/font][i][font=Arial]is defined in rule 239, [/font][b][font=Arial]road related area [/b][/i][/font][i][font=Arial]is defined in rule 13, [/font][b][font=Arial]shared path [/b][/i][/font][font=Arial]is defined in
[/left]
[left]rule 242, and [/font][b][font=Arial]shoulder [/b][/font][font=Arial]is defined in rule 12.
[/left]
[/font]

On 2005-08-07, cfsmtb (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

*Claps hands again*

Ladies, Gentlemen, enough.

Thankyou.

In the words of the Fonzi:

"Ayyyyy! Sit on it!".

Quoted message said:

Go to bedibyes - now!

Thank you 🙂

Awww! Can't I have dinner first?

--
TimC
"Application encountered an error while failing. Error recovered
successfully, proceeding to fail"

Euan said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>"flyingdutch" == flyingdutch <[email hidden]> writes:

flyingdutch> Let's stop whineing to the converted and start putting
flyingdutch> some positive steps in place here people!

flyingdutch> So, who's on board? REALLY onboard??

I'm in.

And me.

Sorry I didnt get there on friday.. Funeral I,m afraid.