Climbing hills

mezzinator said:

I'm a Taswegian and yes, there's some excellent training hills here. I'm a lean 94 kilo's so climbing is never going to be my forte either. But on the descent and sprints? WATCH OUT!! 🙂

I try and spin as fast as possible and every couple of minutes drop 2 gears, get out of the saddle and dance on those pedals!!

i beat most of you on the weight front... i weigh in at 105kg

my LBS know me well.... another BB?

Hi Sam, im similar height and weight to you (162cm, 56kg). I started cycling about three years ago but haven't trained specifically on the bike until about 4 months ago. I average 200km a week, but a good way to train is to gradually increase the mileage/intensity each week for three weeks, and then have 1 week as a recovery week. Then start over again and go a bit harder with more hill repeats/longer k's/more intervals. Trust that you'll get stronger, because it will happen.

I think the best way to think about hill-climbing is in terms of power to weight ratio. More power and less weight = you go faster. Increasing power will most likely help you the most, because if you try to lose weight you won't have enough energy to train hard and subsequently put your body under the stress required for muscular and cardiovascular adaptations.

Power is a combination of how strong and fast you can turn over the pedals. I've been told that to get strong, doing squats at the gym will help (I'm too lazy to do this and I think gym's are boring), but if you have hills near where you live that's a big bonus!!! Just ride those hills, and start conservatively. It's better to finish a training session feeling like you could have done a bit more than to come home with an injury. That said, don't be timid. You don't know how far you can go until something snaps.

If you have a polar s720, which records speed/heart rate concurrently, or a heart rate monitor, it's handy for tracking your progress. Over 4 months I've timed myself over about 10 training rides in which there is a 600m hill. It's my little 'test' hill. My average speed going up this thing have gone from 16kmh to 23kmh but my HR average of 171 has stayed the same.

If you're hill training and going fairly hard, my only other tip is to take enough energy with you for rides over 90min. If you're not keen to stop in the hills to rip open an energy gel, buy Hi-5 energy gel in powder form (it's a can of gel powder containing 30 servings), and you make up your own and pour it into the 5-serving gel flask which comes with the can. I only use 3 gels on a 2 hour hill ride.

Good luck and have fun! -Su

Hi all

Thanks for the advice in this post. I am also a 'challenged' hill climber, weighing in at 105 kg and 6 feet. I have been trying a lot of gruelling hill climbs living in Sydney of late (away from the flats in Melbourne where I usually live and ride) to improve, and am making progress.

My question is this - I have (stupidly!) signed up for a 1 week bike riding tour to next year's TDF, in the Pyrennes. I currently have a 11-23 speed cassette on my bike and a 52/39 front. Currently I can comfortably turnover 39/23 on the steepest hills but not at great speed.

Is changing the gearing (say by adding a 13/27 cassette) or adding a triple to the front going to make me any faster, or just give me more options to make my present (slow) speed. Eg is higher revs at 39/27 going to get me extra speed?

Hopefully by July 06 I'll have better climbing fitness and will have dropped some weight to improve things as well.

Cheers
mmamster

mmamster said:

Hi all

Thanks for the advice in this post. I am also a 'challenged' hill climber, weighing in at 105 kg and 6 feet. I have been trying a lot of gruelling hill climbs living in Sydney of late (away from the flats in Melbourne where I usually live and ride) to improve, and am making progress.

My question is this - I have (stupidly!) signed up for a 1 week bike riding tour to next year's TDF, in the Pyrennes. I currently have a 11-23 speed cassette on my bike and a 52/39 front. Currently I can comfortably turnover 39/23 on the steepest hills but not at great speed.

Is changing the gearing (say by adding a 13/27 cassette) or adding a triple to the front going to make me any faster, or just give me more options to make my present (slow) speed. Eg is higher revs at 39/27 going to get me extra speed?

Hopefully by July 06 I'll have better climbing fitness and will have dropped some weight to improve things as well.

Cheers
mmamster

When you say "steepest hills" which hills are you referring to around Melbourne? I've never been to the Pyrennes but am tipping they will be much steeper then anything Melbourne dishes up. I currently have the same set-up as you but only weigh 69kg and am a spinner. If i were doing the Pyrennes i'd probably get a few extra low gears rather than getting a triple. You won't need a 11,12 or 13 tooth gear up there.

What's faster up the mountain depends on the person. Some people are faseter using bigger gears. In the absence of a power meter, i guess what you have to go by is your optimal cadence and HR to get up the hills and choose your gearing to suit. Personally, i'm faster using smaller gears as they 'tax' my legs less overall and lead to an overall faster time up the mountain for me. My optimal cadence is in the 93rpm - 105rpm on all terrain.

BTW - which travel group ar eyou using for this as i'm interested in doing something similar.

cheers

Hi mmamster, I didn't go to the Pyrenees this year but we did spend a few weeks in France finishing up riding in the Maritime Alpes. The longest climb that we did was Col Turini but there were lots of other smaller climbs that posed a significant challenge.
A hill that is only 6kms long is only a short one but they are normally followed but another hill and then more. Our longest day of climbing, which is nothing compared to the Pyrenees was as follows:
Roll 3 kms down from Contes where were camping followed by 7km of steep (8-9%) climbing then a descent to L'Escarene, where the switchbacks are so close you cant go over 40kmhr and be able to brake for the hairpins. Ascend another 6kms of steep climb up to Luceram, where the start of the Col Turini climb begins. Ride another 26kms uphill to the Col then a fantastic 24kms of downhill sweeping corners all the way to Sospel. After a nice lunch you begin to feel that wasn't to bad, lets ride to Menton via Col de Castillion, which is another 9kms of climbing out of the 20kms to Menton. The campground at Menton is a nice 2kms up a hill which is up to 15%. Total km for the day was about 110. It was a great day and the view from where were camped was stunning.

You will need a triple. Cols can take hours to climb
Spinning is much kinder on your knees. You will need to lose some weight either before or you definitely will during. (I lost 10kgs). You will be riding through fantastic scenery and have the time of your life.

Have a great time

Cheers

Geoff

geoffs said:

Hi mmamster, I didn't go to the Pyrenees this year but we did spend a few weeks in France finishing up riding in the Maritime Alpes. The longest climb that we did was Col Turini but there were lots of other smaller climbs that posed a significant challenge.
A hill that is only 6kms long is only a short one but they are normally followed but another hill and then more. Our longest day of climbing, which is nothing compared to the Pyrenees was as follows:
Roll 3 kms down from Contes where were camping followed by 7km of steep (8-9%) climbing then a descent to L'Escarene, where the switchbacks are so close you cant go over 40kmhr and be able to brake for the hairpins. Ascend another 6kms of steep climb up to Luceram, where the start of the Col Turini climb begins. Ride another 26kms uphill to the Col then a fantastic 24kms of downhill sweeping corners all the way to Sospel. After a nice lunch you begin to feel that wasn't to bad, lets ride to Menton via Col de Castillion, which is another 9kms of climbing out of the 20kms to Menton. The campground at Menton is a nice 2kms up a hill which is up to 15%. Total km for the day was about 110. It was a great day and the view from where were camped was stunning.

You will need a triple. Cols can take hours to climb
Spinning is much kinder on your knees. You will need to lose some weight either before or you definitely will during. (I lost 10kgs). You will be riding through fantastic scenery and have the time of your life.

Have a great time

Cheers

Geoff

thanks guys

My reference to the steepest hills was to riding in sydney rather than melbourne. I have been riding the ravines in the royal national park and also bobbin head and akuna bay in the pittwater. The ravines especially are steep as anything I've ever climbed before, as steep as the front face of arthurs seat which is 4 km of I think about 8% gradient.

Thanks for your advice. My plan is to keep doing the hill work here and finish off with an attempt on the climb up to katoomba from the foot of the blue mtns (a net 990m gain in 54 kms) on my existing set up and then reassess. I've thought of a triple but I want to avoid buying a new bike if I can help it (I don't see the point in only buying a drive train, cheaper overall to get the whole kit!).

The tour company is cousins travel in toorak in melbourne. they do a trip for a week to the pyrennes and a trip to the alps. they also do a giro trip. all small tours of no more than 8 in the group.

Cheers

mmamster

mmamster said:

thanks guys

My reference to the steepest hills was to riding in sydney rather than melbourne. I have been riding the ravines in the royal national park and also bobbin head and akuna bay in the pittwater. The ravines especially are steep as anything I've ever climbed before, as steep as the front face of arthurs seat which is 4 km of I think about 8% gradient.

Thanks for your advice. My plan is to keep doing the hill work here and finish off with an attempt on the climb up to katoomba from the foot of the blue mtns (a net 990m gain in 54 kms) on my existing set up and then reassess. I've thought of a triple but I want to avoid buying a new bike if I can help it (I don't see the point in only buying a drive train, cheaper overall to get the whole kit!).

The tour company is cousins travel in toorak in melbourne. they do a trip for a week to the pyrennes and a trip to the alps. they also do a giro trip. all small tours of no more than 8 in the group.

Cheers

mmamster

Sounds like your on the right path with where you are training. The kariong climb up to the Blue mountains is a great place to get a bit of an idea of what it will be like. When you get to the top ride back down and then back up again and you'll be getting close and then just think of doing that day after day.
I hope that you are there for longer than 8 days. I didn't know wether it was jet lag or the fact that we were travelling for about 40 hours before we landed but allow your self some extra days for recovery.

Cheers

Geoff

mmamster said:

Hi all

Thanks for the advice in this post. I am also a 'challenged' hill climber, weighing in at 105 kg and 6 feet. I have been trying a lot of gruelling hill climbs living in Sydney of late (away from the flats in Melbourne where I usually live and ride) to improve, and am making progress.

My question is this - I have (stupidly!) signed up for a 1 week bike riding tour to next year's TDF, in the Pyrennes. I currently have a 11-23 speed cassette on my bike and a 52/39 front. Currently I can comfortably turnover 39/23 on the steepest hills but not at great speed.

Is changing the gearing (say by adding a 13/27 cassette) or adding a triple to the front going to make me any faster, or just give me more options to make my present (slow) speed. Eg is higher revs at 39/27 going to get me extra speed?

Hopefully by July 06 I'll have better climbing fitness and will have dropped some weight to improve things as well.

Cheers
mmamster

mmamster,

I did a 3 week bike tour through France this year, with a week in the alps and mt ventoux on the way. There are several factors to consider. How many kms a day you will do overall. How much climbing. How long are the climbs. How fit you are. How much time you will have to finish the day's riding. What gears you have. Is there a sag wagon. Whether most of these are an issue for you, only you can judge.

For me, I made sure I was pretty fit (I was on the trip at 85kgs, down from about 90kgs), I swapped my 12-25 for a 12-27, and I took it easy when I could. We had a sag wagon, but I didnt need it. We had to ride 80-90kms a day overall. In the alps, we had to do 60-70kms a day with about 25 kms of climbing (we had the option of doing as much as we liked, but this was the minimum to get to the next stop). We had all day to do it, so there was no rush. The only time I pushed myself a little bit was going uphill. the rest of the time, I just rode comfortably. I mean, you gotta take in the scenary, the culture, and frequently stop for french food. I think this lack of effort on the flats really helped me when I had to put an effort in to climb.

I had no problems with the trip, but I had to get out of the saddle a lot for the parts that were above about 11-12%. I love my 27, and used it on all the big climbs. And I climbed a lot of hills, many of them back to back. I would have loved a triple or a compact crank to give my legs a break on some of those monster 20+km climbs (ventoux, madelaine, telegraphe-gailibier), but all I needed was a simple cassette change to get my 27, and this was the most cost effective option for me.

Other riders had triples, and you could clearly see the higher cadence they used. I went past quite a few of them, and a couple flew past me. I think the big issue with a lower granny is not the speed with which you climb the current hill, since people can climb fast with either a low cadence or a high cadence, and we can all make it up a climb if we have to. The benefit is found on the hills you have to ride next (and in the pyrennees they are all close together), since a lower granny can save your legs a little and you spin your way to the top.

A couple of people actually swapped from 25's to 27 or 28 during the tour, and noticed a big difference in being able to climb the next hill, and didnt need to stop as much on the current hill. For them speed was not the issue, just getting to the top of each hill.

With my 27, I was definetely not spinning, and I was hurting on every big hill. But I had enough left in the legs to get up the next big one. I was down to 7 km's an hour on some of those beasts, so I hate to think what my cadence was. I would have made it with a 12-25, and I suspect my speed would have been pretty similar but I don't think I would have enjoyed the trip as much. Too much pain!!

Mate, nothing stupid about riding your bike through france/spain, especailly during TdF. Just get fit, get a granny that suits you, and get over there and enjoy. I loved every second of my trip.

Hope that helps.

PS
The company I used was Wide Open Road. We rode from Bordeaux to Alp 'd'Huex (past mt ventoux), then spent a week in the alps to watch the Tour de France.

Fitzroy Lives said:

mmamster,

I did a 3 week bike tour through France this year, with a week in the alps and mt ventoux on the way. There are several factors to consider. How many kms a day you will do overall. How much climbing. How long are the climbs. How fit you are. How much time you will have to finish the day's riding. What gears you have. Is there a sag wagon. Whether most of these are an issue for you, only you can judge......those monster 20+km climbs (ventoux, madelaine, telegraphe-gailibier), but all I needed was a simple cassette change to get my 27, and this was the most cost effective option for me.....

Fitzroy, nice post - sounds like an awesome experience:p . What sort of cost are we talking about for this type of trip? How many people are in the groups usually - similar level or varied?
Did it make a noticeable change in your climbing since you did this or was the improvement more from just doing all the training, etc? Interested to know if there were major before/after changes.

cheers

Dini77 said:

Fitzroy, nice post - sounds like an awesome experience:p . What sort of cost are we talking about for this type of trip? How many people are in the groups usually - similar level or varied?
Did it make a noticeable change in your climbing since you did this or was the improvement more from just doing all the training, etc? Interested to know if there were major before/after changes.

cheers

In short, it cost both too much and who cares 🙂. Before I went, I was worried I was spending too much. Afterward, it was worth every cent. But, you dont find cheap supported cycling in France. Much cheaper to tour yourself, especailly if you camp!! The prices for the company I went are on their website (just search for their name and cycling). Add in some daily spensding money ($50 for me) on wine women and song, flights, insurance, some internal travel, and you get the drift. Start saving now if you are off to France!!

Group size depends on the company. Most of the purely cycling companies seemed to be in the 10-30 range, which I think is about right. It was for me, and we had about 18 all up. The companies following the TdF seem to have larger sizes (after talking to people who have done them), since they have to fill up their buses. Chasing the Tour was not for me. Too much work.

Climbing? I think my fastest climb was the first one (ventoux),since I still had relatively fresh legs and I was pumped (that helped a lot). You dont get much rest on a trip like this, so physically you dont get to recover. Mentally? After that, there wasnt a hill I couldnt do and I certainly felt that I climbed more easily. I just doubt that I climbed as fast, although many of the climbs were back to back and the idea was just to finish. That was where the mental side really helped.

Better climber? There are posts elsewhere about technique and how to climb better. For me, two weeks after I got back, I did test myself on a local hill. I climbed it faster and more easily than before I went. I suspect this was just a pure training effect though. I had rested and recovered from all that cycling, and my body was stronger.

The most noticeable long term improvement was actually in descending. You get lots of practice on those loooong descents, something that is hard to find here in oz. I also made a point of trying to follow better descenders, and looking at their technique. I made big strides here.