Front page problems - help please

Gordon Burns said:

I've just gone onto broadband and have now got my own webpage. I'm using
thnis to keep a record of all my days out; a sort of glorified diary.
After each day's trip, I write a short report and add a link to a GPS track,
and then my photos. Largely this is for my own use, but it has the benefit
of holding data away from my PC, which could be handy if a crash/virus
occurs. I'm using Frontpage to do all this.

Then ask at: microsoft.public.frontpage

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon Burns
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I've just gone onto broadband and have now got my own webpage. I'm using
thnis to keep a record of all my days out; a sort of glorified diary.
After each day's trip, I write a short report and add a link to a GPS track,
and then my photos. Largely this is for my own use, but it has the benefit
of holding data away from my PC, which could be handy if a crash/virus
occurs. I'm using Frontpage to do all this.
The problem is with my photos. I set up thumbnails, with the main picture
available on click. When I try and publish my pages, the progress bar shows
that everything is progressing normally, and I get a message saying that all
has been published correctly. However, when I click on the thumbnails some
correctly show the main picture, and some just give "The page cannot be
displayed" error message. There does not seem to be any pattern in this; I
recently posted 35 picture - numbers 1 to 7 worked, 8 & 9 didn't, 10 to 12
worked and the remainder failed.
I did have some problems with pictures with similar names overwriting each
other when stored in the images folder, but solved this by creating
individual folders for each day out.
When I subsequently try and publish more the progress bar tells me that it
is republishing the photos that have failed, but they still only show the
thumbprint, not the main picture.
I don't really understand HTML, but all phots seem to be recorded correctly
in there, and when I look at the preview button everything is OK. Something
seems to be stopping the transfer from my PC onto the web.
Has anyone else experienced this, and what might I be doing wrong?

It might be a case-sensitivity problem.

Windows cares not a jot about the filenames being referred to with mixed
case (CAPITALS and lowercase) as it is case insensitive. However many
web servers run Linux or other UNIX based operating system and they are
case sensitive.

For example in windows you can use Pic10.jpg and PIC10.JPG and pic10.JPG
etc. to refer to a single file. However in that example Linux would
treat those as three separate files.

When the web server tries to find the file referred to in the html page
it will fail if the case on the filename in the html does not exactly
match that of the actual filename.

That might explain why it works on your PC in preview but not on the
server.

To fix / avoid the problem ensure that for every file the case of the
filename is correct in frontpage / the html. It can simplify matters if
you ensure that all filenames are in lowercase and that frontpage is
correctly referring to them.

If that isn't the problem perhaps you can let us know the web page that
is having the problem and we can have a look to see where the problem
lies.

--

Dominic Sexton

Gordon Burns said:

I've just gone onto broadband and have now got my own webpage. I'm using
thnis to keep a record of all my days out; a sort of glorified diary.
After each day's trip, I write a short report and add a link to a GPS track,
and then my photos. Largely this is for my own use, but it has the benefit
of holding data away from my PC, which could be handy if a crash/virus
occurs. I'm using Frontpage to do all this.
The problem is with my photos. I set up thumbnails, with the main picture
available on click. When I try and publish my pages, the progress bar shows
that everything is progressing normally, and I get a message saying that all
has been published correctly. However, when I click on the thumbnails some
correctly show the main picture, and some just give "The page cannot be
displayed" error message. There does not seem to be any pattern in this; I
recently posted 35 picture - numbers 1 to 7 worked, 8 & 9 didn't, 10 to 12
worked and the remainder failed.
I did have some problems with pictures with similar names overwriting each
other when stored in the images folder, but solved this by creating
individual folders for each day out.
When I subsequently try and publish more the progress bar tells me that it
is republishing the photos that have failed, but they still only show the
thumbprint, not the main picture.
I don't really understand HTML, but all phots seem to be recorded correctly
in there, and when I look at the preview button everything is OK. Something
seems to be stopping the transfer from my PC onto the web.
Has anyone else experienced this, and what might I be doing wrong?

It'd be a lot easier to answer this if you'd provide us with a pointer
to the offending pages.....

I'd expect a file-naming-convention problem, Unix having a different one
to Windows. I've had trouble with spaces in file or folder names before
now. Also, Unix is case-sensitive for everything, and Windows is not.

(Aside - this more than anything labels Unix as a bad OS - it is
pointless, confusing and makes the everything more error-prone. It is a
great example of how *not* to design an OS. Despite this, it is very
popular - largely as a result of being given away free to University IT
departments in the Seventies)

Many thanks for your comments. As I said I'm only just developing the site
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mickledore/

If you follow the links through to 2005 and have a look under
HighStreetGrayCrag you'll see some photos. There were originally 35, but I've
now removed the ones that don't work. The only one there that now is faulty
is the last one, Nan Bield.

Since I posted my query, I've found that Route Map B on the Helvellyn page,
and the complete Joss Naylor Traverse page are doing exactly the same thing.
As far as I can tell from preview everything is fine, but not on the web
itself.

Can you help from this?

Many thanks
"Dominic Sexton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon Burns
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I've just gone onto broadband and have now got my own webpage. I'm using
thnis to keep a record of all my days out; a sort of glorified diary.
After each day's trip, I write a short report and add a link to a GPS
track,
and then my photos. Largely this is for my own use, but it has the benefit
of holding data away from my PC, which could be handy if a crash/virus
occurs. I'm using Frontpage to do all this.
The problem is with my photos. I set up thumbnails, with the main picture
available on click. When I try and publish my pages, the progress bar
shows
that everything is progressing normally, and I get a message saying that
all
has been published correctly. However, when I click on the thumbnails some
correctly show the main picture, and some just give "The page cannot be
displayed" error message. There does not seem to be any pattern in this; I
recently posted 35 picture - numbers 1 to 7 worked, 8 & 9 didn't, 10 to 12
worked and the remainder failed.
I did have some problems with pictures with similar names overwriting each
other when stored in the images folder, but solved this by creating
individual folders for each day out.
When I subsequently try and publish more the progress bar tells me that
it
is republishing the photos that have failed, but they still only show the
thumbprint, not the main picture.
I don't really understand HTML, but all phots seem to be recorded
correctly
in there, and when I look at the preview button everything is OK.
Something
seems to be stopping the transfer from my PC onto the web.
Has anyone else experienced this, and what might I be doing wrong?

It might be a case-sensitivity problem.

Windows cares not a jot about the filenames being referred to with mixed
case (CAPITALS and lowercase) as it is case insensitive. However many web
servers run Linux or other UNIX based operating system and they are case
sensitive.

For example in windows you can use Pic10.jpg and PIC10.JPG and pic10.JPG
etc. to refer to a single file. However in that example Linux would treat
those as three separate files.

When the web server tries to find the file referred to in the html page it
will fail if the case on the filename in the html does not exactly match
that of the actual filename.

That might explain why it works on your PC in preview but not on the
server.

To fix / avoid the problem ensure that for every file the case of the
filename is correct in frontpage / the html. It can simplify matters if
you ensure that all filenames are in lowercase and that frontpage is
correctly referring to them.

If that isn't the problem perhaps you can let us know the web page that is
having the problem and we can have a look to see where the problem lies.

--

Dominic Sexton

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from
Alan Dicey contained the following:

Quoted message said:

(Aside - this more than anything labels Unix as a bad OS - it is
pointless, confusing and makes the everything more error-prone. It is a
great example of how *not* to design an OS. Despite this, it is very
popular - largely as a result of being given away free to University IT
departments in the Seventies)

On the contrary, it demonstrates that Windows is an amateur OS. It is
easy to code in such a way that the case sensitivity is not a problem,
not so easy the other way round.
--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

Gordon Burns said:

Many thanks for your comments. As I said I'm only just developing the site
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mickledore/

If you follow the links through to 2005 and have a look under
HighStreetGrayCrag you'll see some photos. There were originally 35, but I've
now removed the ones that don't work. The only one there that now is faulty
is the last one, Nan Bield.

Since I posted my query, I've found that Route Map B on the Helvellyn page,
and the complete Joss Naylor Traverse page are doing exactly the same thing.
As far as I can tell from preview everything is fine, but not on the web
itself.

Can you help from this?

Many thanks
"Dominic Sexton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon Burns
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I've just gone onto broadband and have now got my own webpage. I'm using
thnis to keep a record of all my days out; a sort of glorified diary.
After each day's trip, I write a short report and add a link to a GPS
track,
and then my photos. Largely this is for my own use, but it has the benefit
of holding data away from my PC, which could be handy if a crash/virus
occurs. I'm using Frontpage to do all this.
The problem is with my photos. I set up thumbnails, with the main picture
available on click. When I try and publish my pages, the progress bar
shows
that everything is progressing normally, and I get a message saying that
all
has been published correctly. However, when I click on the thumbnails some
correctly show the main picture, and some just give "The page cannot be
displayed" error message. There does not seem to be any pattern in this; I
recently posted 35 picture - numbers 1 to 7 worked, 8 & 9 didn't, 10 to 12
worked and the remainder failed.
I did have some problems with pictures with similar names overwriting each
other when stored in the images folder, but solved this by creating
individual folders for each day out.
When I subsequently try and publish more the progress bar tells me that
it
is republishing the photos that have failed, but they still only show the
thumbprint, not the main picture.
I don't really understand HTML, but all phots seem to be recorded
correctly
in there, and when I look at the preview button everything is OK.
Something
seems to be stopping the transfer from my PC onto the web.
Has anyone else experienced this, and what might I be doing wrong?

It might be a case-sensitivity problem.

Windows cares not a jot about the filenames being referred to with mixed
case (CAPITALS and lowercase) as it is case insensitive. However many web
servers run Linux or other UNIX based operating system and they are case
sensitive.

For example in windows you can use Pic10.jpg and PIC10.JPG and pic10.JPG
etc. to refer to a single file. However in that example Linux would treat
those as three separate files.

When the web server tries to find the file referred to in the html page it
will fail if the case on the filename in the html does not exactly match
that of the actual filename.

That might explain why it works on your PC in preview but not on the
server.

To fix / avoid the problem ensure that for every file the case of the
filename is correct in frontpage / the html. It can simplify matters if
you ensure that all filenames are in lowercase and that frontpage is
correctly referring to them.

If that isn't the problem perhaps you can let us know the web page that is
having the problem and we can have a look to see where the problem lies.

--

Dominic Sexton

Well, I get error 404 with:

2005 Route 25 Brotherswater Round. I expect this is because it is
pointing to

http://www.users.waitrose.com/myweb/Brotherswater Round.htm

instead of

http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mickledore/Brotherswater Round.htm

and Route 25 Coniston Crawl, same problem, pointing to
http://www.users.waitrose.com/myweb/Coniston Crawl.htm

By replacing myweb with ~mickledore I can get to a page, but all the
photos are broken, pointing to places like this ; -

http://www.users.waitrose.com/My Pictures/18 Coniston Crawl 29 October
2005/1 Cove Bridge.JPG

which obviously don't exist on users.waitrose.com, or if they do you
can't get to them.

Is there any way you can view the directories on the ISP's server, using
ftp or something, to verify the names of the files and directories *on
the server* and to check that the files really are there?

In article <[email hidden]>, Gordon Burns
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Many thanks for your comments. As I said I'm only just developing the site
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mickledore/

If you follow the links through to 2005 and have a look under
HighStreetGrayCrag you'll see some photos. There were originally 35, but I've
now removed the ones that don't work. The only one there that now is faulty
is the last one, Nan Bield.

Since I posted my query, I've found that Route Map B on the Helvellyn page,
and the complete Joss Naylor Traverse page are doing exactly the same thing.
As far as I can tell from preview everything is fine, but not on the web
itself.

Can you help from this?

Nothing immediately obvious from the site.

I suggest that you get an FTP client so that you can view / change the
files that are actually on the site. That way you bypass Frontpage's
file transfer facility which could be causing your problem.

Filezilla is a freely available FTP client from:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=21558

Install that and (with the FTP server, Username and Password as entered
in Frontpage) you can then rummage around on the site and actually check
which files have made it and which haven't. If they are actually there
but not working delete them with Filezilla and then copy them again
using Filezilla.

--

Dominic Sexton

Gordon Burns said:

Many thanks for your comments. As I said I'm only just developing the site
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mickledore/

Just had a look over there with a view to poss offering pointers, but
its seems under heavy development i.e. no links, nuffink ;-)

Can I make a suggestion; don't go for the first page saying "click to
enter", its usage is declining in popularity ;-) If you think about
people are only going to visit your site with the explicit view of
"entering" so requiring them to click (again) to enter can be
construed as a nuisance.

As for the page (that I saw)? There's a lot of blank space around such
page constructs as

<p> </p> and

<p align=center> </p>

Its poss that they've been introduced as you've deleted other content
(and they've been left behind as artefacts), either way you should
delete them. You'll prolly have to "view source" to do that but, with
a little care you'll spot the stuff you need to axe amongst all the
gubbins.

Yes, I know that there will be a lot of space in certain areas; that is as
you say, because I've deleted a lot of the stuff that won't show up. Most of
the pages are not yet finalised, so don't take what you see as the finished
product.

The Brotherswater/Coniston pages should be ignored for this query, I know
the problem there, and it is down to me being only part way through things.

Before I get down to tidying the thing up I'd like to get the info on there
and working. It appears that in some way I'm sending it off to waitrose, but
it is not being recorded at their end. I suspect that it is beyond my
ability to sort out; I'll have to get a twelve year old in to help!

<SteveO> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Gordon Burns said:

Many thanks for your comments. As I said I'm only just developing the site
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mickledore/

Just had a look over there with a view to poss offering pointers, but
its seems under heavy development i.e. no links, nuffink ;-)

Can I make a suggestion; don't go for the first page saying "click to
enter", its usage is declining in popularity ;-) If you think about
people are only going to visit your site with the explicit view of
"entering" so requiring them to click (again) to enter can be
construed as a nuisance.

As for the page (that I saw)? There's a lot of blank space around such
page constructs as

<p> </p> and

<p align=center> </p>

Its poss that they've been introduced as you've deleted other content
(and they've been left behind as artefacts), either way you should
delete them. You'll prolly have to "view source" to do that but, with
a little care you'll spot the stuff you need to axe amongst all the
gubbins.

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from SteveO
contained the following:

Quoted message said:

As for the page (that I saw)? There's a lot of blank space around such
page constructs as

<p> </p> and

<p align=center> </p>

Flippin' 'eck don't blame him for that, he's using Front Page!

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

Quoted message said:

I've just gone onto broadband and have now got my own webpage. I'm using
thnis to keep a record of all my days out; a sort of glorified diary.
After each day's trip, I write a short report and add a link to a GPS
track, and then my photos. Largely this is for my own use, but it has the
benefit of holding data away from my PC, which could be handy if a
crash/virus occurs. I'm using Frontpage to do all this.

You don't say what version of Front Page you are using. I use 2000 version
and had similar problems. I discovered that once I had imported full size
images, buttonized then saved, the only image saved was the button size.
Proving on my PC was OK as went selecting the button link, to the location
on my hard drive where the original had been imported from was accessed and
the full size image displayed. Once uploaded, my ISP couldn't access my
hard drive therefore no photo was displayed when the button link was
selected. Only after a lot of frustration did I discover the problem. I
then ensured that the location in Front Page held both full size and button
images before uploading. I have also stopped using the built-in FTP of
Front Page as I had too many upload problems. I now use a version of Cute
FTP and just select the files to upload from within the web on my hard
drive. It also means that once upload, I can delete all the Front Page
'vti' files from the published web thereby reducing my server storage
capacity.

--
sandy saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
email: saunders.sandy at ntlworld.com

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still
brings the same excitement'

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Geoff Berrow <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from
Alan Dicey contained the following:

Quoted message said:

(Aside - this more than anything labels Unix as a bad OS - it is
pointless, confusing and makes the everything more error-prone. It is a
great example of how *not* to design an OS. Despite this, it is very
popular - largely as a result of being given away free to University IT
departments in the Seventies)

On the contrary, it demonstrates that Windows is an amateur OS. It is
easy to code in such a way that the case sensitivity is not a problem,
not so easy the other way round.

Come come now, give me one good reason (outside of cryptography) why and
ordinary person would want to have 'My Pictures' be a different place
from 'My pictures'. Basically it's just daft and, whenever it exists,
it's the root cause of more programming and design errors than you can
shake a stick at.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from sandy
saunders contained the following:

Quoted message said:

It also means that once upload, I can delete all the Front Page
'vti' files from the published web thereby reducing my server storage
capacity.

I'd be tempted to delete Front Page...

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

Quoted message said:

I'd be tempted to delete Front Page...

I have been contemplating taking a look at Dreamweaver as an alternative,
which I believe appears to be the more popular tool.

--
sandy saunders @ www.thewalkzone.co.uk
email: saunders.sandy at ntlworld.com

'Mountains or Mole Hills ... summiting still
brings the same excitement'

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from GSV Three Minds in a
Can contained the following:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On the contrary, it demonstrates that Windows is an amateur OS. It is
easy to code in such a way that the case sensitivity is not a problem,
not so easy the other way round.

Come come now, give me one good reason (outside of cryptography) why and
ordinary person would want to have 'My Pictures' be a different place
from 'My pictures'. Basically it's just daft and, whenever it exists,
it's the root cause of more programming and design errors than you can
shake a stick at.

Maybe, but the English language has many examples of words which/are/
case sensitive. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_case_sensitive_English_words

I've been coding in case sensitive languages now for so long that I
never even give it a second thought. And case conventions do make
reading code that much easier. In PHP for instance, I always know that
a word in all caps is a constant.

As I said, people who are used to case sensitivity have no difficulty
with case insensitive systems, it's just the other way round.

And it's not likely to change any time soon so if you are using a *nix
host then you'll just have to deal with it. :-)

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 18:33:47 +0000, sandy saunders burbled:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd be tempted to delete Front Page...

I have been contemplating taking a look at Dreamweaver as an alternative,
which I believe appears to be the more popular tool.

If you don't mind getting your hands dirty with a bit of HTML, can I
recommend 1st Page 2000? It is an excellent HTML editor, with lots of
bells & whistles - and you can't argue with the price: Free!

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

Geoff Berrow said:

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from
Alan Dicey contained the following:

Quoted message said:

(Aside - this more than anything labels Unix as a bad OS - it is
pointless, confusing and makes the everything more error-prone. It is a
great example of how *not* to design an OS. Despite this, it is very
popular - largely as a result of being given away free to University IT
departments in the Seventies)

On the contrary, it demonstrates that Windows is an amateur OS. It is
easy to code in such a way that the case sensitivity is not a problem,
not so easy the other way round.

I don't want to get into a religious argument over operating systems. I
do think that case-sensitivity is utterly pointless in anything other
than a word processor, and in an OS it is counter-productive.

Don't think that because I post a criticism of Unix that I have any
higher regard for Windows, although amateur is one thing it isn't. Unix
is the byproduct of a space flight game and shows it. Windows is a
Frankenstein's monster of innumerable parts sewn together by Microserfs,
and every so often it comes apart at the seams. All this shows is that
technical excellence is not necesssary for an OS to succeed, but
Marketing is.

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 14:14:25 +0000, Alan Dicey wrote...

Quoted message said:

Well, I get error 404 with:

2005 Route 25 Brotherswater Round. I expect this is because it is
pointing to

http://www.users.waitrose.com/myweb/Brotherswater Round.htm

instead of

http://www.users.waitrose.com/~mickledore/Brotherswater Round.htm

and Route 25 Coniston Crawl, same problem, pointing to
http://www.users.waitrose.com/myweb/Coniston Crawl.htm

By replacing myweb with ~mickledore I can get to a page, but all the
photos are broken, pointing to places like this ; -

http://www.users.waitrose.com/My Pictures/18 Coniston Crawl 29 October
2005/1 Cove Bridge.JPG

which obviously don't exist on users.waitrose.com, or if they do you
can't get to them.

The way to avoid this problem is to ensure that the copy of your website
on your hard disc and the copy on the Waitrose server have the same
directory (folder) tree structure. (Or just put all the files in a
single directory/folder.)

Load all your files into the appropriate directories on your hard disc
*before* you start to make any links between them. So when you want to
make a link, the file you are linking to will have been placed in the
correct directory beforehand. Use relative addressing, rather than
absolute addressing [1].

When you are finished, upload all the files from your hard disc into the
corresponding directories on the Waitrose server.

This ensures that all your links point to the same places on the server
as they do on your hard disc, and the corresponding files are there for
them. Otherwise they won't be found.

To avoid case sensitivity problems, many people use lower case
throughout all filenames and directory names. It's also best not to
have spaces in them. (A space has to be translated to the code %20 in
order to be sure that it works properly on the web - your software might
or might not do this automatically.)

_______________________

[1] Relative addressing: e.g. if you are linking to a file called
picture.jpg in a sub-directory of the current directory called images,
then the link should be to images\picture.jpg rather than to C:\Website
\images\picture.jpg.)

--
Tim Jackson
[email hidden]
(Change '.invalid' to '.com' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

Message-ID: <[email hidden]> from Tim
Jackson contained the following:

Quoted message said:

To avoid case sensitivity problems, many people use lower case
throughout all filenames and directory names.

This is good advice though it's worth pointing out that it's not the
case that caused the problems, just the fact that the link and the
reference have to be identical.

Quoted message said:

_______________________

[1] Relative addressing: e.g. if you are linking to a file called
picture.jpg in a sub-directory of the current directory called images,
then the link should be to images\picture.jpg rather than to C:\Website
\images\picture.jpg.)

Up to a point. Links in the form
<a href='\images\picture.jpg'>Link</a>
are also known as absolute an will resolve correctly whatever part of
the directory tree they are in. The forward slash makes them take their
reference point as the webroot. However, Front Page probably doesn't
make this distinction. Indeed from what I've seen of it links to files
on the users hard disk are all too common, usually caused by not doing
things in the correct (according to FP) sequence.

--
Geoff Berrow (put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/