Questions for Mr. Brandt about equipment used on Alps tours

This is sort of a weird posting.

Jobst certainly has accomplished a lot of touring. But wouldn't you
think that you could figure out how to do most things by yourself? And
wouldn't that be a better lesson than trying to copy someone that is
still touring in the dark ages? (With all due respects to Jobst who was
still climbing, last time I saw him, in a 42/19 or something similar.)

Russell Seaton said:

1. From the pictures of your Alps tours it appears you use a
Carradice saddlebag. One of the larger models such as the Camper or
Nelson. Correct? Which model?

Carradice Nelson (not long flap) using my own QR attachment.

Quoted message said:

2. No pictures of your bike have a water bottle cage or bottle on
them. Why not? Do you carry water inside the saddlebag?

I'm not racing, so I allow myself to stop when thirsty. The alps are
gushing with water and towns have fountains with drinking water. I
also stop at grocery stores for a snack as I do here at home. I don't
believe in the "hydrate or die" concept, pushed so heavily by the
business. Occasionally I carry a screw-top soda pop bottle after a
store stop and refill it with water if weather is hot.

Quoted message said:

3. In your list of items you carry inside your saddlebag posted in
the thread on touring bikes that fold/come apart, you do not list an
extra pair of shoes to wear when not riding. Do you take a pair of
normal shoes on your tours? Or do you do all of your off bike
walking after the ride is finished in your SPD pedal shoes?

I use SPD TO-90 shoes that have flat rubber soles and recessed cleats.
Most of the other shoes Shimano offers are waffle-stompers that track
dirt into the house. Hotels don't like that. Meanwhile, racing shoes
have hard soles that don't walk well. In the days of toeclips and
straps I carried a pair of slippers for restaurant and hotel use.

Jobst Brandt

Quoted message said:

Russell Seaton said:

1. From the pictures of your Alps tours it appears you use a
Carradice saddlebag. One of the larger models such as the Camper or
Nelson. Correct? Which model?

Carradice Nelson (not long flap) using my own QR attachment.

Quoted message said:

2. No pictures of your bike have a water bottle cage or bottle on
them. Why not? Do you carry water inside the saddlebag?

I'm not racing, so I allow myself to stop when thirsty. The alps are
gushing with water and towns have fountains with drinking water. I
also stop at grocery stores for a snack as I do here at home. I don't
believe in the "hydrate or die" concept, pushed so heavily by the
business. Occasionally I carry a screw-top soda pop bottle after a
store stop and refill it with water if weather is hot.

Quoted message said:

3. In your list of items you carry inside your saddlebag posted in
the thread on touring bikes that fold/come apart, you do not list an
extra pair of shoes to wear when not riding. Do you take a pair of
normal shoes on your tours? Or do you do all of your off bike
walking after the ride is finished in your SPD pedal shoes?

I use SPD TO-90 shoes that have flat rubber soles and recessed cleats.
Most of the other shoes Shimano offers are waffle-stompers that track
dirt into the house. Hotels don't like that. Meanwhile, racing shoes
have hard soles that don't walk well. In the days of toeclips and
straps I carried a pair of slippers for restaurant and hotel use.

Jobst Brandt

Thank you.

Tom said:

This is sort of a weird posting.

You don't think you can learn from understanding how others do the same
thing you do but using different methods? I've never been afraid to
learn new things by building upon what others have done. I'm not a
reinvent the wheel kind of person.

Quoted message said:

Jobst certainly has accomplished a lot of touring. But wouldn't you
think that you could figure out how to do most things by yourself?

I've toured the Alps and Dolomites and Rockies loaded. Heavily loaded
with an official loaded touring bike and panniers and water bottles and
really low gears (24x32 at first, 20x32 now). Ridden many thousands
and thousands of miles in the past several decades. But I am still
curious how and why others choose to do things the way they do. For
instance, I use panniers when touring. Others swear by this new
fangled trailer concept. I might borrow a BOB from friends and try it
one day. Have you ever toured the Alps, Dolomites, and Rockies? Or
anywhere at all? For 2-3 weeks up to 3 months?

And

Quoted message said:

wouldn't that be a better lesson than trying to copy someone that is
still touring in the dark ages? (With all due respects to Jobst who was
still climbing, last time I saw him, in a 42/19 or something similar.)

Copying proven methods is a fine way to go. The idea of going ultra
light with the very minimum of clothing and tools in a heavily
populated and modern area of the world seems a valid way of touring.
Different than the method I have used in the past and one worth
considering for my next tour. I do not know why you brought up gearing
since none of the questions I asked Mr. Brandt related to gearing. I'm
guessing this is related to some bone you want to pick.

Quoted message said:

I've toured the Alps and Dolomites and Rockies loaded.

Context is everything.

(Slow afternoon.)

BS

Quoted message said:

Russell Seaton said:

1. From the pictures of your Alps tours it appears you use a
Carradice saddlebag. One of the larger models such as the Camper or
Nelson. Correct? Which model?

Carradice Nelson (not long flap) using my own QR attachment.

Quoted message said:

2. No pictures of your bike have a water bottle cage or bottle on
them. Why not? Do you carry water inside the saddlebag?

I'm not racing, so I allow myself to stop when thirsty. The alps are
gushing with water and towns have fountains with drinking water. I
also stop at grocery stores for a snack as I do here at home. I don't
believe in the "hydrate or die" concept, pushed so heavily by the
business. Occasionally I carry a screw-top soda pop bottle after a
store stop and refill it with water if weather is hot.

Quoted message said:

3. In your list of items you carry inside your saddlebag posted in
the thread on touring bikes that fold/come apart, you do not list an
extra pair of shoes to wear when not riding. Do you take a pair of
normal shoes on your tours? Or do you do all of your off bike
walking after the ride is finished in your SPD pedal shoes?

I use SPD TO-90 shoes that have flat rubber soles and recessed cleats.
Most of the other shoes Shimano offers are waffle-stompers that track
dirt into the house. Hotels don't like that. Meanwhile, racing shoes
have hard soles that don't walk well. In the days of toeclips and
straps I carried a pair of slippers for restaurant and hotel use.

Jobst Brandt

Good to be reminded how completely uncomplicated it all really is.

I bet bike mags just hate you.

Ron

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

1. From the pictures of your Alps tours it appears you use a Carradice
saddlebag. One of the larger models such as the Camper or Nelson.
Correct? Which model?

Perhaps my experiences may be of worth. These pics[1] reveal my touring
setup, which on this occasion transported me approx. 2200km through
western Canada. A nondescript handlebar bag held a cheapo digital
camera, a few chocolate bars and apples, and the saddlebag is a
Carradice Nelson Longflap. Outfitting the LF with supplementary straps
allows for the more hardier elements of your luggage (red waterproof
shell in pic 3) to be carried atop the bag.

There was a small mod to the LongFlap. Though it hung from the saddle
from its two straps as Carradice intended, the bag was affixed to the
seat post via a length of wire reinforced rubber hose - cheap and easy!
Positioned further rearward, its bottom wouldn't interfere with the
legs when pedalling.

Quoted message said:

2. No pictures of your bike have a water bottle cage or bottle on
them. Why not? Do you carry water inside the saddlebag?

Even though I travelled with two bottles, there was only one instance
where I drained both, and then a town was only a few km away. Much of
the time, snow runoff and mountain streams provided a plentiful supply
of the cleanest water on Earth.

Quoted message said:

3. In your list of items you carry inside your saddlebag posted in the
thread on touring bikes that fold/come apart, you do not list an extra
pair of shoes to wear when not riding. Do you take a pair of normal
shoes on your tours? Or do you do all of your off bike walking after
the ride is finished in your SPD pedal shoes?

I rarely carry an extra pair of shoes on tour. SPD compatible shoes of
the 'casual' ilk such as the Lake MX101 and MX155 serve well as
everyday footwear - even as non-technical hiking boots as well.

My packing list is similar to Jobst's; the most notable difference
being a small backpack (visible on the ground in the photo of the bike
undergoing repairs) - a convenience when I parked the bike and hiked,
and for stocking up on food when stops between towns exceeded 100km.
And I notice JB did not list toilet paper in his packing list - I never
tour without it!

The most frequent comment from bikers and non-bikers: 'Where's the rest
of your stuff?'

Luke

1.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/96622004@N00/sets/72057594072300025/

In article <[email hidden]>,

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

1. From the pictures of your Alps tours it appears you use a
Carradice saddlebag. One of the larger models such as the Camper
or Nelson. Correct? Which model?

Perhaps my experiences may be of worth. These pics[1] reveal my
touring setup, which on this occasion transported me approx. 2200km
through western Canada. A nondescript handlebar bag held a cheapo
digital camera, a few chocolate bars and apples, and the saddlebag is
a Carradice Nelson Longflap. Outfitting the LF with supplementary
straps allows for the more hardier elements of your luggage (red
waterproof shell in pic 3) to be carried atop the bag.

The pictures are a little small for detail, but it looks like it was a
fun and often pretty remote ride.

Quoted message said:

There was a small mod to the LongFlap. Though it hung from the saddle
from its two straps as Carradice intended, the bag was affixed to the
seat post via a length of wire reinforced rubber hose - cheap and
easy! Positioned further rearward, its bottom wouldn't interfere with
the legs when pedalling.

Jobst uses a wooden standoff between the seatpost and the saddlebag. I
found this less than ideal (the standoff can fall out unless attached
to the toe strap) and instead I use a section of PVC pipe; the toe strap
runs through the pipe, around the seatpost and through the loop on the
bag. It's very secure and the bag tends to swing less that with the
wooden standoff. I sometimes just strap it right to the seat post, as I
don't notice the bag touching the backs of my legs after a while. I
also have a Baggins Hoss, about twice the capacity of the Nelson, and
that has no option other than strapping it to the seatpost. I use it
mainly for grocery runs.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. No pictures of your bike have a water bottle cage or bottle on
them. Why not? Do you carry water inside the saddlebag?

Jobst doesn't seem to believe in water bottles on the bike. Ah, well-
whatever works for each person is whatever works. I like to carry water
with me on my bike.

Quoted message said:

Even though I travelled with two bottles, there was only one instance
where I drained both, and then a town was only a few km away. Much of
the time, snow runoff and mountain streams provided a plentiful
supply of the cleanest water on Earth.

You are a more trusting man than I.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3. In your list of items you carry inside your saddlebag posted in
the thread on touring bikes that fold/come apart, you do not list
an extra pair of shoes to wear when not riding. Do you take a pair
of normal shoes on your tours? Or do you do all of your off bike
walking after the ride is finished in your SPD pedal shoes?

I rarely carry an extra pair of shoes on tour. SPD compatible shoes
of the 'casual' ilk such as the Lake MX101 and MX155 serve well as
everyday footwear - even as non-technical hiking boots as well.

I also wear Lake MX101 shoes from 2002; they've changed the design
since then and IMHO not for the better. They have served me well in
tours of the Alps, brevets, general rides and I've worn 'em to work
sometimes. I walked all over Paris in them, too.

Tim McNamara said:

Jobst uses a wooden standoff between the seatpost and the saddlebag. I
found this less than ideal (the standoff can fall out unless attached
to the toe strap) and instead I use a section of PVC pipe; the toe strap
runs through the pipe, around the seatpost and through the loop on the
bag. It's very secure and the bag tends to swing less that with the
wooden standoff. I sometimes just strap it right to the seat post, as I
don't notice the bag touching the backs of my legs after a while. I
also have a Baggins Hoss, about twice the capacity of the Nelson, and
that has no option other than strapping it to the seatpost.

Why?

Could you perhaps post some sort of overall review of your Hoss? The
Rivendell site is rather thin on details and it seems there are major
differences between the Carradice and Rivendell designs. Those of us
contemplating purchasing such a large bag are wondering. What about
using the Hoss with an SQR or Bagman?

I take it that since you use it chiefly for groceries, you find its
design not satisfactory for touring. Is thigh rub the only reason?

-

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim

McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps my experiences may be of worth. These pics[1] reveal my
touring setup, which on this occasion transported me approx. 2200km
through western Canada. A nondescript handlebar bag held a cheapo
digital camera, a few chocolate bars and apples, and the saddlebag is
a Carradice Nelson Longflap. Outfitting the LF with supplementary
straps allows for the more hardier elements of your luggage (red
waterproof shell in pic 3) to be carried atop the bag.

The pictures are a little small for detail, but it looks like it was a
fun and often pretty remote ride.

When viewing each individual photo, please click on the 'All Sizes'
button on the console atop the image. That should ease eye strain. ;-)

Luke

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim

McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

Even though I travelled with two bottles, there was only one instance
where I drained both, and then a town was only a few km away. Much of
the time, snow runoff and mountain streams provided a plentiful
supply of the cleanest water on Earth.

You are a more trusting man than I.

There is a general rule I adhere to: if there are no roads and no
agriculture further up a mountain or upstream, there will be no
pollution.

Luke

In article <[email hidden]>,

41 said:

Tim McNamara said:

Jobst uses a wooden standoff between the seatpost and the
saddlebag. I found this less than ideal (the standoff can fall out
unless attached to the toe strap) and instead I use a section of
PVC pipe; the toe strap runs through the pipe, around the seatpost
and through the loop on the bag. It's very secure and the bag
tends to swing less that with the wooden standoff. I sometimes
just strap it right to the seat post, as I don't notice the bag
touching the backs of my legs after a while. I also have a Baggins
Hoss, about twice the capacity of the Nelson, and that has no
option other than strapping it to the seatpost.

Why?

Because of the shape of it. The photo on the Web site doesn't really
show the profile well, but basically the compartment is extended forward
under the saddle compared to the Carradice.

http://www.rivbike.com/webalog/baggage_racks/20078.html

Putting a standoff in between the seatpost and the bag would make it
stick out really far. Hmmm, I'll have to see if I can post some better
pictures on the Web somewhere.

Quoted message said:

Could you perhaps post some sort of overall review of your Hoss? The
Rivendell site is rather thin on details and it seems there are major
differences between the Carradice and Rivendell designs. Those of us
contemplating purchasing such a large bag are wondering. What about
using the Hoss with an SQR or Bagman?

The Hoss and the Adam are huge, bigger than any Carradice I've ever
seen. I've seen cars with trunks (boots for those who speak English)
smaller than my Hoss. ;-) I have a first generation Hoss, but I think
the changes are minor between it and the current ones.

The bag is very well made. The sewing appears very strong. There is a
large, flat-bottomed main compartment and two large side pockets. It
opens like a trunk, from the top and offes a 6" deep "lip" at the
opening to keep stuff inside. The leather straps and reinforcement are
very stiff. The Hoss is large enough that it can benefit from a
stiffener in the bottom- an 11 x 14 inch piece of Coroplast works
nicely. The hardware is all solid brass. The Hoss does not have a
waterproof liner and instead relies on waxed canvas for water
resistance. When you open the main flap, there are "flaplets" on three
sides of the opening that can be tied shut if needed. There are eyelets
for shock cord, which is what I use, and they can be used to provide
some structure to the bag and reduce or prevent sagging.

A Carradice has a sort of rounded bottom and sort of lays at an angle,
which can allow stuff to fall out when the flap is opened. My Nelson LF
holds about half as much stuff, which is both good and bad- good in that
it makes you very selective about what you take, bad in that what you
need might not all fit. The Carradice has a plastic stiffener that runs
the full shape of the compartment and gives the bag more structure than
the Hoss has.

Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. The Carradice looks very
"classic" but I prefer the warmer colors of the Hoss. The Hoss looks
just huge on a bike, absolutely immense. I'll have to post some photos
to one of my Web sites.

Since I am tall and ride frames > 60 cm, I've never looked into the SQR
or Bagman bag carriers. To me it just seems like more weight, more
complexity, and more stuff to go wrong. Rivendell has commissioned a QR
saddlebag mount based on Jobst/Peter Johnson's design. The pictures
look nice, although it would probably weigh double what Jobst's does
given that it uses a hub QR screwer to secure the bag. If I had an
issue with the bag dragging on the rear tire, then I'd use a small or
standard pannier rack or a sturdy rear fender to support the bottom of
the bag.

Quoted message said:

I take it that since you use it chiefly for groceries, you find its
design not satisfactory for touring. Is thigh rub the only reason?

No, I just haven't gone on a tour since I bought it. When I do have
time to go, I am planning on using it.

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim

McNamara said:

Quoted message said:

Even though I travelled with two bottles, there was only one instance
where I drained both, and then a town was only a few km away. Much of
the time, snow runoff and mountain streams provided a plentiful
supply of the cleanest water on Earth.

You are a more trusting man than I.

There is a general rule I adhere to: if there are no roads and no
agriculture further up a mountain or upstream, there will be no
pollution.

Luke

The Giardia virus/bacteria is carried in animal feces. Giardia is
found about anywhere wild animals live. Including in crystal clear
mountain streams near the source because animals may defecate in the
water. Giardia might not be human pollution, but it will still make
you very sick. Some of the water filter systems are able to filter out
Giardia.

Quoted message said:

I use SPD TO-90 shoes that have flat rubber soles and recessed cleats.
Most of the other shoes Shimano offers are waffle-stompers that track
dirt into the house. Hotels don't like that. Meanwhile, racing shoes
have hard soles that don't walk well. In the days of toeclips and
straps I carried a pair of slippers for restaurant and hotel use.

I use the T091s. I am using a pair and have 2 pair put away. I don't
like the current 3 strap model. The problem I had with my T090/1 was
that the tongue would slide to one side. The shoemaker sewed one side
oth the tongue in place and, voila, perfect shoes. I also use a pair
of the SPD sandals.

Paul Kopit said:

Quoted message said:

I use SPD TO-90 shoes that have flat rubber soles and recessed
cleats. Most of the other shoes Shimano offers are waffle-stompers
that track dirt into the house. Hotels don't like that.
Meanwhile, racing shoes have hard soles that don't walk well. In
the days of toeclips and straps I carried a pair of slippers for
restaurant and hotel use.

Quoted message said:

I use the T091s. I am using a pair and have 2 pair put away. I
don't like the current 3 strap model. The problem I had with my
T090/1 was that the tongue would slide to one side. The shoemaker
sewed one side of the tongue in place and, voila, perfect shoes. I
also use a pair of the SPD sandals.

Interesting that most shoes are left with a dangling, side slipping
tongue. In the old days of clips and straps some all leather racing
shoes had the tongue sewn onto the high side, but not all. Of course,
I take each new pair of shoes to the shoemaker to get that fixed.

By the way, three straps is macho. Get with it.

Jobst Brandt

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Luke said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim

McNamara said:

> Even though I travelled with two bottles, there was only one instance
> where I drained both, and then a town was only a few km away. Much of
> the time, snow runoff and mountain streams provided a plentiful
> supply of the cleanest water on Earth.

You are a more trusting man than I.

There is a general rule I adhere to: if there are no roads and no
agriculture further up a mountain or upstream, there will be no
pollution.

Luke

The Giardia virus/bacteria is carried in animal feces. Giardia is
found about anywhere wild animals live. Including in crystal clear
mountain streams near the source because animals may defecate in the
water. Giardia might not be human pollution, but it will still make
you very sick. Some of the water filter systems are able to filter out
Giardia.

Over the years, drinking from the streams of the Appalachians, Rockies,
Andes, etc..., I've not suffered any ill effects. Perhaps I've been
lucky or benefit from a hardy constitution.

Luke

Quoted message said:

The Giardia virus/bacteria is carried in animal feces. Giardia is
found about anywhere wild animals live. Including in crystal clear
mountain streams near the source because animals may defecate in the
water. Giardia might not be human pollution, but it will still make
you very sick. Some of the water filter systems are able to filter out
Giardia.

The fear of Giardia is overblown. Unless you regularly drink just
below beaver dams or from pools of standing water, your chances of
getting Giardia from drinking from a mountain stream are far less than
getting hit by a car or getting a cold from the cashier at the 7-11.
And the consequences for a healthy adult, though unpleasant, are not
dangerous.

The roads and agriculture rule of thumb is a good one.

- Christian, who has a Katadyn filter, but really uses it only for
canoeing trips, where weight is a lesser concern and standing water
abounds.

Quoted message said:

The Giardia virus/bacteria is carried in animal feces. Giardia is
found about anywhere wild animals live. Including in crystal clear
mountain streams near the source because animals may defecate in the
water. Giardia might not be human pollution, but it will still make
you very sick.

This is the reason the human race became extinct long ago, except in
areas where high-tech water filters grow naturally on trees.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

By the way, three straps is macho. Get with it.

I guess I'm not macho. I've got wide feet and high instep. I barely
fasten the strap close to the tow. I just move the upper strap. When
my feet have swelled on a hot ride, I pull out the foam insole.