Cycling to work

i artikel [email hidden], skrev Ed Chilada på
[email hidden] den 06-04-05 01.14:

Quoted message said:

It'd largely depend on how
far it was and how much of a sweaty mess they were in by the time they
got there (I've known of people to cycle to work and to stink all day
- no showers).

I find that if I'm showered and clean, and wearing clean clothes to start
with, and cool off for a minute or two before entering the building, then I
don't smell. And with a bike rack bag you can just put peal off layers and
put excess clothing in the bag, so being smelly isn't really a problem in my
experience.

Quoted message said:

I was surprised at those who pedal to
work in their work shoes. I just figure that anyone who is customer
facing would have to have shoes in decent condition and using them to
pedal their bike wouldn't really be ideal -scuffs, ingrained mud - and
perhaps the sorts of shoes worn with a suit aren't ideal for sticking
to a pedal anyway - it's OK if you can wear the same CATs all day, as
Kinetic said.

If you need nice shoes, can't you leave the nice shoes at work? That way
they wouldn't get wet, for example if you have to cross a parking lot in the
rain on foot.

--
Erik Sandblom
my site is EriksRailNews.com
for those who don't believe, no explanation is possible
for those who do, no explanation is necessary

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan

(') said:

David Martin said:

Depends on the terrain. 15-20 minutes of mild exertion - equivalent to
a brisk walk so 5 miles in a fairly flat area (ie London).

15 to 20 mph on a typical bike is mild exertion, for an average
person?

15 miles per hour, yes. 20 miles per hour is hard - I can just about
sustain 20 miles per hour for five miles but I can't keep it up for ten
without either a long hill or else wind assist.

Are you an average person (in terms of fitness), riding a typical bike?

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Inna flat area, and onna half-decent bike (and why should someone
commuting by bike not have an adequate machine for the job?)

What defines an adequate bike for commuting by an average person?

My most recent serious commuter (it's now my winter bike) is a
steel-framed Raleigh twelve speed road bike weighing about 25 lbs. It
cost about £250 new in 1992. I used it for a 42 mile round trip commute
on quiet, mainly fairly flat roads, and averaged 16mph.

For urban commuting a flat barred bike might be better than a drop barred
one; for any regular commuting an epicyclic gearbox would be better than
derailleurs because of lower maintenance. Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op
currently sell such a machine for £349.

http://www.edinburgh-bicycle.co.uk/catalogue/detail.cfm?ID=22638
Revolution Courier? Yes, I'd say that's adequate and might manage 15mph.
Tyres and gearing look far better than a typical bike.

Nick Kew said:

Nick Finnigan said:

Nick Kew said:

Nick Finnigan wrote:

> David Martin wrote:
>
>>
>> Depends on the terrain. 15-20 minutes of mild exertion - equivalent to
>> a brisk walk so 5 miles in a fairly flat area (ie London).
>
>
>
>
>
> 15 to 20 mph on a typical bike is mild exertion, for an average
> person?

Inna flat area, and onna half-decent bike (and why should someone
commuting by bike not have an adequate machine for the job?)

What defines an adequate bike for commuting by an average person?

You snipped:

" That was onna basic £150 (1980s prices) touring bike. "

I snipped a lot. So large frame, drop bar, no suspension... ?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So did you ever manage to cover 5 miles in 15 minutes?

Probably not in London - too many stops for traffic/etc.
ISTR 20 minutes for the shortest London commute, which was
from NW2 to just off Oxford Street - 4.8 miles.

Easily on the Bath-Bristol commute.

And do you think an average person could do it easily, on a 'city' or
'nountain' bike?

Nick Finnigan said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What defines an adequate bike for commuting by an average person?

It depends on the person, the commute, the workplace. What might be
adequate for my commute might be entirely unsuitable for someone
else's. Give me an example and I'll suggest an adequate bike; but
there are so many combinations of person/commute/workplace such that
pretty much every sort of unicycle/bike/trike would be a perfectly
suitable machine for at least one of them.

"Inna flat area", the workplace in mind I think was either a hospital
or a supermarket and so suburban, the person was "average", so about 35,
bit of a coach potato, not cycled for over a decade...

In that scenario, I'd be looking for a bike with the following;

Flat handlebars; urban cycling up to around 10 miles each way, I'd
prefer these over drops; you get a better view over car traffic, at the
expense of worse wind resistance. Bar ends offer an alternate hand
position for longer rides. A newcomer or long-time-off-returner to
cycling might want to go for one of the handlebars with adjustable
positions to experiment with the most comfortable.

Slick tyres, assuming entirely/mostly road, off-road cycle path, or
towpath; knobbly tyres are only useful for mud and dramatically increase
your effort riding on hard ground, not to mention their alarming ability
to squirm in corners. I'd recommend Schwalbe Marathons, Schwalbe
Marathon Plus; other people have other favourites.

Avoid any form of front fork or frame suspension; it will add weight and
expense (and effort spent) for very little benefit. (Having said that,
I have a bike that I use for commuting which has suspension forks; I
keep them as stiff as possible on the road, but I also take it out on
gentle trails when I slacken them off). However, if your route is
particularly bumpy, a suspension seatpost or sprung saddle may be more
comfortable.

Full mudguards. Absolutely and definitely.

Rear rack and pannier(s), which will avoid a sweaty back/rucksack.
Cheap panniers have to be strapped or velcro'd on, and are a bit of a
PITA if you have to keep putting them on and off to avoid them getting
nicked. More expensive panniers are waterproof, and just click on and
off at the touch of a button; I swear by them.

If the person is reasonably competant mechanically, then derailleur
gears are fine; they need occasional care. If they're completely
hopeless mechanically, consider a hub gear; more expensive, slightly
less efficient, virtually zero maintenance. Hub gears also easily
permit fully enclosed chaincases, but that's what trouser clips and
socks are for.

Saddles are very much a personal thing; one person's saddle is another's
literal PITA. But, generally, harder are better than softer.

LED battery lights of the appropriate are adequate for urban cycling
under streetlights, but it's quite a personal preference as to how much
light you like to output.

A bike following those guidelines should be obtainable for around UKP
200-300 and be perfectly adequate for the job.

R.

Nick Kew said:

Nick Finnigan said:

Nick Kew said:

Nick Finnigan wrote:

> David Martin wrote:
>
>>
>> Depends on the terrain. 15-20 minutes of mild exertion - equivalent to
>> a brisk walk so 5 miles in a fairly flat area (ie London).
>
>
>
>
> 15 to 20 mph on a typical bike is mild exertion, for an average person?

Inna flat area, and onna half-decent bike (and why should someone
commuting by bike not have an adequate machine for the job?)

What defines an adequate bike for commuting by an average person?

You snipped:

" That was onna basic £150 (1980s prices)

touring bike. "

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of course it is.

When I lived in London (and commuted in to W1), the limiting
factor was always congestion.

So did you ever manage to cover 5 miles in 15 minutes?

Probably not in London - too many stops for traffic/etc.
ISTR 20 minutes for the shortest London commute, which was
from NW2 to just off Oxford Street - 4.8 miles.

Easily on the Bath-Bristol commute.

I do my 4km commute from Euston to work (EC2A 1PQ) in about 15 minutes
(from getting off the train to getting to my desk) on a Brompton.
(That includes the unfold and actually getting out of the station, 25
independent sets of lights, and the fold and up to my desk at work -
this morning it was 06:58 when I stepped off the train and 07:13 when I
got to my desk (although I notice that the clock is about minute slow
at work so that's really 07:14)
Route is Euston Road, Pentonville Road, City Road.

Leave it an hour later and it takes 5-10 minutes longer even by bicycle
due to the traffic even though over half of this route is bus lane.

Yesterday I clocked a new PB on the brompton on the downhill from Kings
Cross towards Angel (before the climb) of 50.9km/h although I did have
a large lorry infront of me (I could have gone faster if the lorry had
gone faster but I probably couldn't have gone even as fast if the lorry
wasn't there at all). Previously my best was 50.4km/h (same spot) but
"unassisted" other than a probable tail wind. (Note I wasn't
slipstreaming the lorry, I'd left a safe gap, but was still benefitting
from following it)

Tim.

Quoted message said:

If you need nice shoes, can't you leave the nice shoes at work? That way
they wouldn't get wet, for example if you have to cross a parking lot in
the
rain on foot.

Of course, I do.

This doesn't just apply to cyclists. Lots of women walk to work in trainers
and change into the ankle-crackers on arrival.

Nick Finnigan said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan

(') said:

David Martin wrote:

>Depends on the terrain. 15-20 minutes of mild exertion - equivalent to
>a brisk walk so 5 miles in a fairly flat area (ie London).

15 to 20 mph on a typical bike is mild exertion, for an average
person?

15 miles per hour, yes. 20 miles per hour is hard - I can just about
sustain 20 miles per hour for five miles but I can't keep it up for ten
without either a long hill or else wind assist.

Are you an average person (in terms of fitness), riding a typical bike?

No, he has two broken backs, is otherwise medically compromised and as
far as cyclists go not very quick. I'm medically OK but quite
overweight (BMI towards the morbidly obese) and can sustain the same
speeds on a lightly laden MTB with slicks on a hillier route. I crawl
in at the tail end of the pack on long rides and get dropped on every
hill.

Within a couple of weeks and some good advice, the average joe (or jo)
doing a flattish 5 mile commute should be able to complete it
comfortably in 25 minutes, 20 minutes if in a rush. Fast riders would
do it in sub 15.

...d

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan

(') said:

Nick Kew said:

Probably not in London - too many stops for traffic/etc.
ISTR 20 minutes for the shortest London commute, which was
from NW2 to just off Oxford Street - 4.8 miles.

Easily on the Bath-Bristol commute.

And do you think an average person could do it easily, on a 'city' or
'nountain' bike?

Riding a mountain bike on tarmac is this: bloody stupid. Fat knobbly
tyres are going to cost you about 8% efficiency, suspension is going to
cost you more, and a high bottom bracket certainly isn't going to help
when you have to stop at traffic lights. My favourite bike is a mountain
bike, but it very rarely touches tarmac.

On a decent city bike, 14mph average shouldn't be too much sweat,
although I'd prefer a proper road bike.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Generally Not Used
;; Except by Middle Aged Computer Scientists

Ed Chilada said:

OK guys, I've got the information I was after, thanks for your
efforts!!

The discussion in uk.rec.driving was with regard to the increasing
amounts of people driving without insurance. People have suggested
that for anyone who can't afford their insurance, they should cycle to
work. I'm suggesting that for many, that would be fine but for many
others it simply would not be an option.

Very, very few in reality. The 2001 census found that the average
distance to work is around 6 miles with most journeys shorter. Even
with today's obesity problems, nearly everyone can cycle this in 20 -
30 mins.

Quoted message said:

It'd largely depend on how
far it was and how much of a sweaty mess they were in by the time they
got there (I've known of people to cycle to work and to stink all day
- no showers). Also, what facilities they had for getting changed and
freshening up and perhaps what sort of condition they needed to be in,
in terms of presentation when they got there.

I suppose there was a split, but I was surprised at those who pedal to
work in their work shoes. I just figure that anyone who is customer
facing would have to have shoes in decent condition and using them to
pedal their bike wouldn't really be ideal -scuffs, ingrained mud - and
perhaps the sorts of shoes worn with a suit aren't ideal for sticking
to a pedal anyway - it's OK if you can wear the same CATs all day, as
Kinetic said.

Crumbs, I should have been wearing CATs. Last year, I cycled to work in
a suit and office shoes. While not 100% customer facing, I did have
over 1000 people working for me who had similar expectations.

5 miles gentle cycling - no need to shower. Everyday for 4 years.

New job now - 10 miles e/w. I /do/ get changed for this run - far more
fun.

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan

(') said:

David Martin wrote:

>Depends on the terrain. 15-20 minutes of mild exertion - equivalent
>to a brisk walk so 5 miles in a fairly flat area (ie London).

15 to 20 mph on a typical bike is mild exertion, for an average
person?

15 miles per hour, yes. 20 miles per hour is hard - I can just about
sustain 20 miles per hour for five miles but I can't keep it up for
ten without either a long hill or else wind assist.

Are you an average person (in terms of fitness), riding a typical
bike?

No. I'm in later middle age, with very poor circulation and a badly - and
permanently - damaged leg. I've also broken my back twice. My bikes
range from the utterly sublime to the very ordinary. I love the good
ones - they are gorgeous pieces of machinery. But the truth is they have
the same engine as the more mundane ones, and the best is only a few
percent more efficient than the worst.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When all else fails, read the distractions.

i artikel [email hidden], skrev
Blonde på [email hidden] den 06-04-05 10.22:

Quoted message said:

I like to feel I look
good on my bike and for me that means wearing cycling specific kit even
though it is only 4 miles each way

Quoted message said:

I like to feel that I look
good at work and for me that means wearing girly skirts and high heels.

Beautiful women on bikes... *sigh*

Please don't take offense, it's meant as a compliment.

Erik Sandblom

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Nick Finnigan
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

>David Martin wrote:
>
>>Depends on the terrain. 15-20 minutes of mild exertion - equivalent
>>to a brisk walk so 5 miles in a fairly flat area (ie London).
>
> 15 to 20 mph on a typical bike is mild exertion, for an average
> person?

15 miles per hour, yes. 20 miles per hour is hard - I can just about
sustain 20 miles per hour for five miles but I can't keep it up for
ten without either a long hill or else wind assist.

Are you an average person (in terms of fitness), riding a typical
bike?

No. I'm in later middle age, with very poor circulation and a badly - and
permanently - damaged leg. I've also broken my back twice. My bikes
range from the utterly sublime to the very ordinary. I love the good
ones - they are gorgeous pieces of machinery. But the truth is they have
the same engine as the more mundane ones, and the best is only a few
percent more efficient than the worst.

You may not be fast compared to some of the people you ride with, but you are
fast compared to me.

When I used to bike in to work (like Simon I now work at home) I used
to do 5.5 miles with no hills whatsoever in an urban enviroment. Door to
door, normally it used to take me around 25 minutes to half an hour (which
was about the same time as the bus took). I used a typical hybrid bike and
no cycle-shoes, had a packed pannier and I am probably best classed as
overweight. So I would say that Simon probably was a bit optimistic but not
outrageously so.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

"Kinetic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I cycle 3 km to work. Since I work in a university, I could use the uni
gym to shower and change, but I never do.

I wear caterpillar boots, which are suitable both for cycling and
office.

Most of the year, sweating can be avoided simply by wearing less than
you would
while walking.

I work up more sweat running around the office all day than cycling!

If you cycle at a leisurely pace (12 km/h) you'll sweat less than a
pedestrian.

I would have thought that 7 mph was a bit slow.

Alan

Quoted message said:

Beautiful women on bikes... *sigh*

Was it Steph or Audrey who mentioned cycling along in her student days with
her ball gown hitched up, showing off her stockinged legs?

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:28:46 GMT, Mark Thompson

pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com said:

Quoted message said:

Beautiful women on bikes... *sigh*

Was it Steph or Audrey who mentioned cycling along in her student days with
her ball gown hitched up, showing off her stockinged legs?

wasn't me ...

audrey pretended :

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:28:46 GMT, Mark Thompson

pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com said:

Quoted message said:

Beautiful women on bikes... *sigh*

Was it Steph or Audrey who mentioned cycling along in her student days with
her ball gown hitched up, showing off her stockinged legs?

wasn't me ...

He dreamt it, the lecherous sod.

--
Simon
www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

I suppose there was a split, but I was surprised at those who pedal to
work in their work shoes. I just figure that anyone who is customer
facing would have to have shoes in decent condition and using them to
pedal their bike wouldn't really be ideal -scuffs, ingrained mud

You really aren't thinking, are you?

I'll wave away the curious aggression, tell you that I'm sure you're
right and..

Quoted message said:

When cycling on the toad

....just laugh at that instead.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Ed Chilada

(') said:

Hi guys, I promise this isn't dissertation research, but a stem from a
discussion in uk.rec.driving...

Do people who cycle a lot tend to cycle to work?

Did for fourteen years, now work from home.

Quoted message said:

How many people here do? Do you have a shower at work when
you get there and do you get changed?

Never have had a shower at work as a regular thing (may have done so
occasionally, don't remember). In the last job to which I cycled (21
miles each way) I used to drive in once a week with enough clean clothes
for the week. Prior to that I'd never bothered to change.

And now you work from home you say? Popular demand? ;-)

Mark Thompson
<pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com> of NTL

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Beautiful women on bikes... *sigh*

Was it Steph or Audrey who mentioned cycling along in her student days with
her ball gown hitched up, showing off her stockinged legs?

Steph - and they were black stockings. With stiletto heeled sandals.
--
Steph Peters
Chorlton Wanderers Cycling Group
Monthly slow and easy rides from South Manchester
http://www.sandbenders.demon.co.uk/cycling/chwan.htm