Confusing blood test report

[email hidden] (Werner) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Don Kirkman <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Can you please provide some information about the qualifications of
these doctors in the area of discussion and how they support Dr.
Hartenbeck's thesis? Where is Hartenbeck's research published?

Hartenbach is a German prof and publishes in German.
I translate him (as good as possible) as he cites other scientists:
"Prof.Newman is a specialist for the evaluation of different programs
of cholesterol prevention and he says: ´The advantage of a reduction
of cholesterol is a theoretical model which is not confirmend in
practice. Not one scientific study is able to show the influence of a
cholesterol decrease on the devolopment of atherosclerosis.´
Skrabanek: "Hardly something else has been proven as good as the
failure to hold responsible cholesterol for the development of
coronary heart desease."
Stehbens is a pathologist and published three books which have been
edited in almost all languages. He is the author of over 200 articles
on cholesterol, physiology and the function of arterial walls. He
says: "The lipid hypothesis (cholesterol -> heart desease) is not only
unsuitable, it is nonsense.

The top nutrition specialist of France, Prof.Dr.M.Apfelbaum, Paris,
says: "If there is no herditary cholesterol desease, nobody should
take care of his cholesterol, because each lowering of cholesterol is
harmful.

The message of all these scientistsl and a lot of others is that the
cholesterol propaganda is a simple fraud made by big industry in order
to make money.

The German population has the following cholesterol values:

Age medium value Upper value medication
required

10-19 175 mg/dl 230 mg/dl >300 mg/dl
25-29 198 mg/dl 270 mg/dl >350 mg/dl
40-59 250 mg/dl 350 mg/dl >400 mg/dl
65-85 230 mg/dl 330 mg/dl >400 mg/dl.

Werner

No hereditary and no need to worry. Wanna start a new trend? 🙂

Mel

Jim Chinnis said:

[email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I do. I also eat eggs and sausage and other meats.

Probably not with the blessing of your doctor.

Quoted message said:

If you tune in to the low carb newsgroup you will find that people on the
Adkins diet generally have greatly improved lipid profiles after being on
the diet for more than several months.

Not ime. More generally, LDL increases along with hsCRP for folks who
are "low-carbing".

Perhaps the *survivors* have improved lipid profiles *after* they
survive the induction phase and are on "maintenance."

I think this may be the case, with the caveat that all or virtually all are
survivors.

In my practice, I see the ones who drop-out during induction because of new angina.

These folks generally turn out to have accelerated diffuse coronary disease.

Quoted message said:

I suspect that during induction, most people experience a worsening
of lipids, but at maintenance, the weight loss and reduced caloric intake
result in improved lipids despite the inclusion of saturated fat in the diet.

However, hsCRP usually stays high. By comparison, most other conventional dieting approaches
(including 2PD) results in a normalization of hsCRP.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pray tell us why Dr. Atkins met with his untimely cardiac demise?

Cardiac? Head trauma, according to all I've read.

That's the "spin." Reportedly, he slipped on ice and suffered head trauma. This only about a year
after an earlier "fall" from cardiac arrest.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I do. I also eat eggs and sausage and other meats.

Probably not with the blessing of your doctor.

Quoted message said:

If you tune in to the low carb newsgroup you will find that people on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Adkins diet generally have greatly improved lipid profiles after being

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the diet for more than several months.

Not ime. More generally, LDL increases along with hsCRP for folks who
are "low-carbing".

Perhaps the *survivors* have improved lipid profiles *after* they
survive the induction phase and are on "maintenance."

Pray tell us why Dr. Atkins met with his untimely cardiac demise?

<libelous statements snipped>

Why are you taking the above so personally?

Are you a surviving relative of Dr. Atkins?

If so, my condolences for your loss.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Chinnis said:

[email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I do. I also eat eggs and sausage and other meats.

Probably not with the blessing of your doctor.

> If you tune in to the low carb newsgroup you will find that people on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Adkins diet generally have greatly improved lipid profiles after

being on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> the diet for more than several months.

Not ime. More generally, LDL increases along with hsCRP for folks who
are "low-carbing".

Perhaps the *survivors* have improved lipid profiles *after* they
survive the induction phase and are on "maintenance."

I think this may be the case, with the caveat that all or virtually all

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

survivors.

In my practice, I see the ones who drop-out during induction because of

new angina.

And yet another quack quack sound was heard from the alleged Dr.

You might lend some credibility to your posts IF you tell all WHY you were
fired from your hospital job and WHY you do not have hospital privileges.

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Chinnis said:

[email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote in part:

>"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
>> I do. I also eat eggs and sausage and other meats.
>
>Probably not with the blessing of your doctor.
>
>> If you tune in to the low carb newsgroup you will find that people on

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Adkins diet generally have greatly improved lipid profiles after

being on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> the diet for more than several months.
>
>Not ime. More generally, LDL increases along with hsCRP for folks who
>are "low-carbing".
>
>Perhaps the *survivors* have improved lipid profiles *after* they
>survive the induction phase and are on "maintenance."

I think this may be the case, with the caveat that all or virtually all

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

survivors.

In my practice, I see the ones who drop-out during induction because of

new angina.

<libelous statement snipped>

You might lend some credibility to your posts IF you tell all WHY you were
fired from your hospital job and WHY you do not have hospital privileges.

Have never worked for a hospital, so there is nothing to explain.

Why are you upset by the truth concerning Atkin's?

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Jim Chinnis wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Pray tell us why Dr. Atkins met with his untimely cardiac demise?

Quoted message said:

Cardiac? Head trauma, according to all I've read.

Did a little Googling. Many reports that cause of death was head trauma
(bleeding into the brain?). One well-written page suggesting the value
of an autopsy to ascertain the condition of Dr. Atkins' cardiovascular
system after 40 years on his diet; no evidence of such an autopsy.

Evidence of a prior heart problem:

[Begin]
'Dr. Atkins' suffers cardiac arrest

Apr 26 (Reuters Health) - Dr Robert C Atkins, cardiologist and author of
the bestselling ''Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution,'' returned home Wednesday
after being hospitalized last week for cardiac arrest, according to a
statement released by the Atkins Center on Thursday.

The cardiac arrest was reportedly due to cardiomyopathy, a disease of
the heart muscle in which the muscle thickens and stiffens, which Atkins
has suffered for several years, and not due to blocked arteries.
According to the Atkins Center, Atkins' cardiomyopathy resulted from an
infection. The unusually high mid-April temperatures in New York also
contributed to his cardiac arrest.

"I have had cardiomyopathy, which is a non-coronary condition and is in
no way related to diet," Atkins said in a statement.
[End]
http://www.heartcenteronline.com/myheartdr/home/research-detail.cfm?reutersid=2555

I'll leave it to the experts to interpret what that all means.
--
Don
[email hidden]

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Chinnis wrote:

> [email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote in part:
>
> >"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

> >
> >> I do. I also eat eggs and sausage and other meats.
> >
> >Probably not with the blessing of your doctor.
> >
> >> If you tune in to the low carb newsgroup you will find that

people on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the

Quoted message said:

> >> Adkins diet generally have greatly improved lipid profiles after

being on

Quoted message said:

> >> the diet for more than several months.
> >
> >Not ime. More generally, LDL increases along with hsCRP for folks

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >are "low-carbing".
> >
> >Perhaps the *survivors* have improved lipid profiles *after* they
> >survive the induction phase and are on "maintenance."
>
> I think this may be the case, with the caveat that all or virtually

all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are

Quoted message said:

> survivors.

In my practice, I see the ones who drop-out during induction because

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

new angina.

<libelous statement snipped>

You might lend some credibility to your posts IF you tell all WHY you

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fired from your hospital job and WHY you do not have hospital

privileges.

Quoted message said:

Have never worked for a hospital, so there is nothing to explain.

Sort of ducking the question aren't you Chung.
Let me ask it this way. Have you ever been dismissed (fired).
Did you or have you ever been denied hospital privileges?

Quoted message said:

Why are you upset by the truth concerning Atkin's?

I am not upset by the truth concerning Atkins.
YOU seem to be distorting facts and disseminating inaccurate information.

Are you so desperate that you have to lie and distort in order to peddle
your
two pound diet?

Let me hear you say again that you see diffuse coronary artery disease after
one is on the
induction phase of Atkins for several weeks. Of course, you must have data
to indicate that
this was not the condition prior to them starting Atkins, right?

Tell us again how Dr. Atkins died and cite references please.

Let me hear you say Quack Quack again (Doctor?)

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Don Kirkman <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Thanks; I was reading a section of Pub-Med but didn't make my way to the
main area, apparently.

As I know it is quite difficult to find out the truth on the
cholesterol question. You need some time to find it out. But, if you
have a problem with cholesterol, it is very important to know the
whole story.

For me, after reading Hartenbachs´ book, I think to know the whole
story. He is an insider and describes precisely how the cholesterol
business works. In Germany, Merck Sharp & Dohme, an affiliated company
of the American Merck, spends 80 million $ each year only in Germany
to promote the cholesterol business by sponsoring favourable "studies"
and syposiums on cholesterol, to finance "scientists", to pay the
media for its propaganda.
In America the situation is even worse. The cholesterol business
totals 40 billion $ (Germany 2.5 billion $).
Hartenbach describes exactly why cholesterol does not cause
atherosclosis and heart disease (he made more than 1000 operations).
And he cites the following scientists who share his opinion:
M.Kaltenbach, M.Apfelbaum, M.Berger, T.B.Newman, J.Holtmeier,
H.Immich, D.Borgers, G.Glaeske, P.Skrabanek, W.E.Stehbens.
For them, it is very difficult to defend themselves against the chorus
of the "cholesterol mafia", as he calls it.

Werner

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul E. Lehmann said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Jim Chinnis wrote:
>
> > [email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD) wrote in part:
> >
> > >"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...
> > >
> > >> I do. I also eat eggs and sausage and other meats.
> > >
> > >Probably not with the blessing of your doctor.

Yes?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > >> If you tune in to the low carb newsgroup you will find that

people on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the
> > >> Adkins diet generally have greatly improved lipid profiles after
being on
> > >> the diet for more than several months.
> > >
> > >Not ime. More generally, LDL increases along with hsCRP for folks

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > >are "low-carbing".
> > >
> > >Perhaps the *survivors* have improved lipid profiles *after* they
> > >survive the induction phase and are on "maintenance."
> >
> > I think this may be the case, with the caveat that all or virtually

all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

are
> > survivors.
>
> In my practice, I see the ones who drop-out during induction because

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

new angina.

<libelous statement snipped>

You might lend some credibility to your posts IF you tell all WHY you

were

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fired from your hospital job and WHY you do not have hospital

privileges.

Quoted message said:

Have never worked for a hospital, so there is nothing to explain.

Sort of ducking the question aren't you Chung.

Not really. I answered it with the truth.

Quoted message said:

Let me ask it this way. Have you ever been dismissed (fired).

A while back, I did work for a large group in Florida that asked me to falsify
the medical records of my patients. I couldn't bring myself to do it because of
my religious convictions. They subsequently terminated me *without cause*. I
have the letter to prove it. Would you like a JPEG scan of it?

(This has already been discussed on Usenet already in the past. Use Google).

Quoted message said:

Did you or have you ever been denied hospital privileges?

No.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why are you upset by the truth concerning Atkin's?

I am not upset by the truth concerning Atkins.
YOU seem to be distorting facts and disseminating inaccurate information.

Why do you seem upset?

Quoted message said:

Are you so desperate that you have to lie and distort in order to peddle
your
two pound diet?

No.

Quoted message said:

Let me hear you say again that you see diffuse coronary artery disease after
one is on the
induction phase of Atkins for several weeks.

You can read what I wrote again. Use google.

Quoted message said:

Of course, you must have data
to indicate that
this was not the condition prior to them starting Atkins, right?

Young age. Folks aren't born with coronary disease.

Quoted message said:

Tell us again how Dr. Atkins died and cite references please.

See my other post(s) on this topic.

Quoted message said:

Let me hear you say Quack Quack again (Doctor?)

Are you calling me a "quack"? Just want you to be clearly understood.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

No need to be nasty to Dr Chung however you are right. He died of injuries
following an accident. (Atkins)

Quoted message said:

Are you calling me a "quack"? Just want you to be clearly understood.

In my opinion, you ARE a quack.
Do you understand that?

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A while back, I did work for a large group in Florida that asked me to falsify
the medical records of my patients. I couldn't bring myself to do it because of
my religious convictions. They subsequently terminated me *without cause*. I
have the letter to prove it. Would you like a JPEG scan of it?

(This has already been discussed on Usenet already in the past. Use Google).

Dr. Chung

Are you stating that the Central Florida Heart Center asked you to
illegally alter medical records? That's a pretty serious charge.

I'm sure you realize that making that kind of statement in a public
forum can be a public service if true, but if it is not true it is
recklessly irresponsible.

Please confirm whether you really mean what you say above or not. It
would be interesting to get the CFHC's response to this claim.

Regards,

Martin Graham

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Werner wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (M. Schwartz) wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Don, it´s up to you to believe whatever you want. But you should agree
that in this case it is essential to get all the information possible.
Then you can decide what´s right for you and what is wrong.

I agree. That's why I don't just automatically accept lists of
"experts" but look around on my own as well. Who have you looked at
that disagrees (and provides their evidence) with Hartenbach?

[Mel's question and responses snipped]
--
Don
[email hidden]

[email hidden] (Werner) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (M. Schwartz) wrote in message

Don, it´s up to you to believe whatever you want. But you should agree
that in this case it is essential to get all the information possible.
Then you can decide what´s right for you and what is wrong.

Quoted message said:

Why don't you tell us Hartenbach's theory of what causes heart disease
and why cholesterol plays no part?

I´ll try to get a view on Hartenbach´s theory.

1. Cholesterol, HDL and LDL, is absolutely necessary for our
metabolism, e.g. bone metabolism, muscles, sexual hormones.

2. HDL takes over the cholesterol from nutrition and cells to
transport it to the liver. LDL (a lipoprotein and thus ´taxi´for
cholesterol) takes the liver´s cholesterol to transport it to the
cells. It is not a bad cholesterol.
LDL is NOT a participant in building plaques. Instead, this is the
decisive declaration of the cholesterol industry, but it is NOT true.

3. All cells have a specific receptor for LDL. With this receptor the
cells take the cholesterol to their inside sector and thus they can
grow and work.

4. The reduction of cholesterol levels leads to a lowering of hormone
production and therefore to a reduction of mental and physical
activity.

5. Cholesterol values depend very much on the type of activity you are
enganged in. Stress creates a much higher value than sleep.
Consequently, going to the doc to take a snapshot of cholesterol is
senseless.

6. Cholesterol values are increasing with age until 60.

7. Nutrition has no influence on the level of cholesterol. Only the
liver can do it.

8. High values of cholesterol (NOT: values >350-400) are leading to a
high life expectancy and less frequency of cancer.

9. The result of the Simvastatin (4-S-)study with 4444 participants
has had the following conclusion: "A higher level of cholesterol has
no influence on atherosclerosis or infarct. A lowering of cholesterol
makes no sense."

10. The Framingham study with 4500 participants intended to find the
proof for a successful cholesterol medication. Without any success.
Instead, they found an increase in cancer.

11. The same result showed two Finnish studies and the Clofibrat
study.

Hartenbach tells about some victims of the cholesterol fallacy. Here
one story.
The doc of one of his sporting friends stated a cholesterol value of
360 which he declared as very dangerous. The well-known medication
began. After some weeks his friend felt very sick and tired. He
couldn´t go anymore for sports. Hartenbach gave him the advice to stop
his medication immediately. He agreed and after a short time he was
o.k. again.

Werner

Those are words but where is the proof?

Another question is what about people who have CHD because they had a
bypass? Were there studies done involving just people who have had a
bypass?

What about ox-LDL? There are different kinds of both HDL and LDL.
While all LDL may not be bad, I think ox-LDL is believed to be the
factor causing heart disease and heart attacks. I don't see any
mention of ox-LDL by Hartenbach.

Yes, the body manufactures and needs cholesterol, but not ox-LDL.

Mel

[email hidden] (M. Schwartz) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Complex592) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

No need to be nasty to Dr Chung however you are right. He died of injuries
following an accident. (Atkins)

Nah, he's not being nasty to Dr. Chung, just a little inquisitive. ;-)

I think Dr. Chung is inferring the news media report was hogwash. Do
we really know? Perhaps the Atkins people covered up the real reason
for his untimely demise.

I believe Dr. Chung said something to the effect Dr. Atkins had some
cardiac problem about a year ago and suffered a fall.

Where's the coroner's report?

Mel

For your information (and Dr. Chung's) a coroner's report is, under
New York State law, warranted only under the following circumstances:

1. Death in penal incarceration; 2. Death after unexplained coma; 3.
During therapeutic procedure; 4. Death possible threat to public
health; 5. Unattended stillbirth or by midwife only;
6. Unattended death during fatal illness; 7. Found dead without
obvious cause; 8. Death under suspicious circumstance; 9. Violent,
unusual or unnatural means (which includes auto accidents).

In Dr. Atkin's case, his death certificate, which was issued by
Weill-Cornell Medical Center, cited "subdural hematoma" as the cause
of his passing. And one of the most frequent causes of that
condition, which is very often fatal, is blunt head trauma.

So, contrary to your veiled suggestion and Dr. Chung's reference to
"spin", there is no evidence whatsoever that Dr. Atkins died of
anything other than a brain injury suffered when he slipped on ice.
There is certainly nothing to suggest that he died of a heart attack.

To suggest otherwise is to imply that a major medical center has
conspired to falsify a death certificate in order to protect Atkins'
business interests. It also maligns Dr. Atkins and his work in a
manner that is beneath contempt.

That kind of nonsense would be surprising coming from a responsible
physician. But, then again, consider the source.

regards,

Martin Graham

[email hidden] (Martin L. Graham) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A while back, I did work for a large group in Florida that asked me to falsify
the medical records of my patients. I couldn't bring myself to do it because of
my religious convictions. They subsequently terminated me *without cause*. I
have the letter to prove it. Would you like a JPEG scan of it?

(This has already been discussed on Usenet already in the past. Use Google).

Dr. Chung

Are you stating that the Central Florida Heart Center asked you to
illegally alter medical records? That's a pretty serious charge.

The legality of it is being investigated by the proper authorities.

Quoted message said:

I'm sure you realize that making that kind of statement in a public
forum can be a public service if true, but if it is not true it is
recklessly irresponsible.

Such a statement is privileged.

Quoted message said:

Please confirm whether you really mean what you say above or not. It
would be interesting to get the CFHC's response to this claim.

That too would be privileged.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you calling me a "quack"? Just want you to be clearly understood.

In my opinion, you ARE a quack.
Do you understand that?

You are not clear. This would not be a matter of opinion. Are
libelously writing that I am a "quack" ?

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

[email hidden] (Martin L. Graham) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (M. Schwartz) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Complex592) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

No need to be nasty to Dr Chung however you are right. He died of injuries
following an accident. (Atkins)

Nah, he's not being nasty to Dr. Chung, just a little inquisitive. ;-)

I think Dr. Chung is inferring the news media report was hogwash. Do
we really know? Perhaps the Atkins people covered up the real reason
for his untimely demise.

I believe Dr. Chung said something to the effect Dr. Atkins had some
cardiac problem about a year ago and suffered a fall.

Where's the coroner's report?

Mel

For your information (and Dr. Chung's) a coroner's report is, under
New York State law, warranted only under the following circumstances:

1. Death in penal incarceration; 2. Death after unexplained coma; 3.
During therapeutic procedure; 4. Death possible threat to public
health;
5. Unattended stillbirth or by midwife only;
6. Unattended death during fatal illness; 7. Found dead without
obvious cause; 8. Death under suspicious circumstance;

Dr. Atkin's death does seem suspicious. Lots of people fall from
slipping on icy surfaces without dying.

Quoted message said:

9. Violent,
unusual or unnatural means (which includes auto accidents).

In Dr. Atkin's case, his death certificate, which was issued by
Weill-Cornell Medical Center, cited "subdural hematoma" as the cause
of his passing. And one of the most frequent causes of that
condition, which is very often fatal, is blunt head trauma.

You are confusing subarachnoid hemorrhage with subdural hematoma.
Subdural hematomas are rarely fatal. "Drunks" fall all the time and
sustain these without dying. It is not uncommon to get a head CT of
"drunks" and find old subdural hematoma(s).

Quoted message said:

So, contrary to your veiled suggestion and Dr. Chung's reference to
"spin", there is no evidence whatsoever that Dr. Atkins died of
anything other than a brain injury suffered when he slipped on ice.
There is certainly nothing to suggest that he died of a heart attack.

Too bad an autopsy was not done (or if it was, the results were not
released). *If* Dr. Atkins coronaries were "clean" or his heart muscle
appeared healthy, that would have gone a long way to vindicating his
diet approach.

Quoted message said:

To suggest otherwise is to imply that a major medical center has
conspired to falsify a death certificate in order to protect Atkins'
business interests.

If no autopsy was done, there would be nothing to falsify. If it is
true that the cause of death was attributed to a subdural hematoma,
one would have to be suspicious for the reasons I describe above.
Truly, subdural hematoma(s) are rarely lethal. Moreover, they are
extremely rare in folks who are conscious when they fall (ie when
slipping) because folks will automatically use their hand/arms to
break their fall.

Quoted message said:

It also maligns Dr. Atkins and his work in a
manner that is beneath contempt.

The cause of Dr. Atkins death remains subject to speculation since no
autopsy report was ever released (if even done). Such speculation is
understandably fueled by the suspicious circumstances surrounding Dr.
Atkins' cardiac arrest a year earlier.

Quoted message said:

That kind of nonsense would be surprising coming from a responsible
physician. But, then again, consider the source.

Responsible physicians tend to seek the truth.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Paul E. Lehmann" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you calling me a "quack"? Just want you to be clearly understood.

In my opinion, you ARE a quack.
Do you understand that?

You are not clear. This would not be a matter of opinion. Are
libelously writing that I am a "quack" ?

In my opinion, you are far worse than a quack.

Quoted message said:

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com

Paul,

In my opinion you are an argumentative [censored] 🙂

Bob

Ploink

"Paul E. Lehmann" <> wrote: