Armstrong doped?

musette said:

First of all, criticism of a cyclist does not amount to hatred. Hatred requires something irrational -- an inability to reason when the cyclist is concerned that one sometimes sees with respect to LA in this forum.

!

The number of posts you 've written concerning JU (most of the same context) is clearly irrational. And hence...

musette said:

First of all, criticism of a cyclist does not amount to hatred. Hatred requires something irrational -- an inability to reason when the cyclist is concerned that one sometimes sees with respect to LA in this forum.

It's obvious to all that JU has/had weight problems. That is not hatred. That is normal observation of pictures and taking into account what other cyclists, DSs and people observe about JU. Look at the photos of JU earlier this season, and compare them to other historical pictures of JU. It does not take a hating person or a genius to see he had weight issues. In fact, it takes a blind or ignorant person not to notice the difference!

You're irrational.

You joined a JU fan website, posing as a JU fan and you proceeded to post tracts of quotes from the propagandaline.com and openly criticised JU about his weight, about being "beaten" in the TDF, the fact that he cycles in "pink"
coloured team clothing, his earring etc.

You've attempted to adopt the same strategy on this site.
And I have had to moderate your posts and will continue to do so.

It should be noted that when you were invited to commented on Jan's win at the ITT in the Giro on this site, you suddenly had nothing to say.

You're not a cycling fan - you're a troll.

As everybody knows, JU's weight changes over time. So a post three weeks or four weeks ago about weight is not the same observation about JU's weight now. So, the weight issue is one that can spawn a lot of posts over time, as JU yo yos. 😉

L -- Are you saying that JU was not "beaten" by LA in prior TdFs? If you do not see JU as having been beaten, who is irrational? Also, is it not irrational to complain about past observations that I may have made that JU is cycling in pink (which he is, since magenta is a form of pink) and that he does have an earring, when those observations are true? BTW, he is going to marry Tobias' sister.

limerickman said:

........so Mrs Andreu hates Armstrong, L'Equipe hates Armstrong, Greg LeMond hates Armstrong, David Walsh hates Armstrong, Emma O'Reilly hates Armstrong.............................

An amazing haphazard confluence (not).

Mrs Andreu ..... This I know from a source that was around these guys. Many of the women connected to the team by boyfriends/husbands had a dislike for LA. His reputation was that of a "player" with the women. That is public knowledge. I would be curious to know if she testified first at the trial or her husband.

As far as Greg Lemond's dislike for LA it is rather obvious. Greg Lemond is a great racer, we all agree on that. But he is a relativly unknown sportsman in this country. Only hard core cyclist's know who he is. His financial earnings are linked to the public knowing who he is. Just last year he took a financial hit from a company that dropped his product line. With LA in the public eye, the Lemond name doesn't carry the weight it once did.
Also , LA is the one who brought TDF cycling to the front of the public.If a person followed Lemond's career, they can see Lemond is extremly defensive about his acomplishments. Lemond is a businessman. His eye is always on the dollor. Someone has to pay for that big house he lives in.I don't know what the current relationship is now, but I know he fired his own father and went public with it.

{An interesting side note. My ex-wife when she was just my girlfriend did not like Lemond because of the way she saw him treat a few people around him. This was before Lemond went to Europe. But Lemond always treated Kathy with the highest of respect.}

But most cycling greats are hated.....Merckx was disliked by many, Hinault was too, and the French had a dislike for Fignon. Indurain seemed to be the only one anyone liked. But that was because he was so shy. Oh yeah.... JU seems to be liked. { But maybe he needs that killer instinct.}

The personality of champions is interesting. The public demands so much from them. We want them to be "supermen" in the public eye , but if you look at it, a person has to have a flaw in their character to want to ride a bike around France with 189 other men chasing him.

musette said:

L -- Are you saying that JU was not "beaten" by LA in prior TdFs? If you do not see JU as having been beaten, who is irrational? Also, is it not irrational to complain about past observations that I may have made that JU is cycling in pink (which he is, since magenta is a form of pink) and that he does have an earring, when those observations are true? BTW, he is going to marry Tobias' sister.

Let's be clear here.

You stated that JU wore "pink" - you never stated that he wore magenta.
You stated that because he also wore an earring and because he wore "pink"
that perhaps JU was homosexual.
That's what you stated on that other website.

You attempted to state the same here on this website - and I had to moderate you because your comments are irrational and born of some deep seated resent of JU.

You have continued to make remarks about Ullrich's weight here : but have failed to respond to the invitation to comment upon JU's ITT victory in the Giro, JU victory in the TDS.

And I note that the majority of your 1,900 posts are confined to two threads.
Which is your choice of course.

Is not magenta a form of pink, and is it irrational to claim that magenta is other than a form of pink?

Is it normal for you to compel a poster to comment about any given topic, especially if it is supposedly to congratulate on a specific event? That is very strange. Why does anybody need to offer congratulations about anything in particular?

😉

wolfix said:

Mrs Andreu ..... This I know from a source that was around these guys. Many of the women connected to the team by boyfriends/husbands had a dislike for LA. His reputation was that of a "player" with the women. That is public knowledge. I would be curious to know if she testified first at the trial or her husband.

As far as Greg Lemond's dislike for LA it is rather obvious. Greg Lemond is a great racer, we all agree on that. But he is a relativly unknown sportsman in this country. Only hard core cyclist's know who he is. His financial earnings are linked to the public knowing who he is. Just last year he took a financial hit from a company that dropped his product line. With LA in the public eye, the Lemond name doesn't carry the weight it once did.
Also , LA is the one who brought TDF cycling to the front of the public.If a person followed Lemond's career, they can see Lemond is extremly defensive about his acomplishments. Lemond is a businessman. His eye is always on the dollor. Someone has to pay for that big house he lives in.I don't know what the current relationship is now, but I know he fired his own father and went public with it.

{An interesting side note. My ex-wife when she was just my girlfriend did not like Lemond because of the way she saw him treat a few people around him. This was before Lemond went to Europe. But Lemond always treated Kathy with the highest of respect.}

But most cycling greats are hated.....Merckx was disliked by many, Hinault was too, and the French had a dislike for Fignon. Indurain seemed to be the only one anyone liked. But that was because he was so shy. Oh yeah.... JU seems to be liked. { But maybe he needs that killer instinct.}

The personality of champions is interesting. The public demands so much from them. We want them to be "supermen" in the public eye , but if you look at it, a person has to have a flaw in their character to want to ride a bike around France with 189 other men chasing him.

If we analyse this for a second.
Perhaps I am picking this up wrong.
But LeMond is in the bike business and you say that he's interested in money.
If this is the case (and I am sure it is) - how can going head to head with LA make commercial sense given that LeMond is in the bike business and LA's current high profile?
It doesn't make sense for LeMond to attack Armstrong.

In addition I have copies of interviews here in which leMond openly praises LA.
Interviewed by Johnathan Vaughters in May 2004 :
JV "No sour grapes over Lance having superceded you in American cycling?"
GLM "No. I wish I had the chance to make it five, but I didn't.
I think it's great what lance has done, my only sour grapes have to do with missed opportunities in my own career, but that's a whole different thing from what Lance has done"

Interviewed in Cycle Sport : December 2003 :
Question : "How do you view what Lance Armstrong has achieved?"
GLM : "Lance has surpassed my record in the TDF. I think what he has done is marvellous and he has promoted the sport of cycling and raised it ot a new level in the USA".

I agree with the comments about Merckx, Hinault etc.
They're tough uncompromising characters.

musette said:

Is not magenta a form of pink, and is it irrational to claim that magenta is other than a form of pink?

Is it normal for you to compel a poster to comment about any given topic, especially if it is supposedly to congratulate on a specific event? That is very strange. Why does anybody need to offer congratulations about anything in particular?

The fact that you haven't denied the slurs that you posted about JU, is in itself an admission.

The fact that you cannot bring yourself to comment on his recent victories merely confirms your irrational and deepseated hatred of JU.

I don't expect you to admit to it either.

limerickman said:

The fact that you cannot bring yourself to comment on his recent victories merely confirms your irrational and deepseated hatred of JU.

Have you considered that your nth repetition of my need to comment on JU's victory in the Tour de Suisse shows a certain irrationality vis a vis somebody other than a cyclist?

musette said:

Have you considered that your nth repetition of my need to comment on JU's victory in the Tour de Suisse shows a certain irrationality vis a vis somebody other than a cyclist?

I invited you to commend Ullrich's victory following the ITT at the Giro and after the TDS.
I invited you once to congratulate JU.

Since then, by my stating that your refusal then - and your continued refusal - to congratulate JU, aligned with the slurs that you post about JU on this site (which I had to moderate) and on the JU fan website, confirm your deepseated and irrational hatred of JU.

bobke said:

Frankie had been one of the big boys with Lance, would have medalled in the Olympic games 96 had he not been asked to wait for Lance who couldnt get it done because he was already sick with cancer, Lance took him to Cofidis, he came back to Postal and Lance dumped him becasue he could not do well in the TTT and could not get over the mountains. Pure and simple, the wife hates Lance.

This is factually incorrect and totally misleading.

Andreu was hired in 1998 by USPS from Cofidis.
Andreu was part of USPS 1999, 2001 and 2001 teams - after which he retired.

But this is the killer.
What did Andreu go on to do after he retired from USPS in 2001?

HE WAS APPOINTED ASSISTANT MANAGER AT USPS IN 2002.
Which kinda blows your latest urban myth about Armstrong dumping Andreu.

It should also be noted that that paragon of virtue, Mark Gorski, was USPS's manager from 1997-2002.
Him of the LA Olympics in 1984.

Gorski was (is) a partner in Tailwind Sports - the holding company for USPS/DC cycling outfit.

Lance's response was just posted on Velonews. The interesting thing was that [censored] Pound's name came up again. He needs to be looked at by the WADA officials and he needs to have his reputation tried in the court of public opinion. As he has done to LA.

Beyond the issue of "if LA doped" is the issue of [censored] Pound and his connection to the newspaper. If [censored] Pound's tactics are not looked at, how do we apply any truth to what WADA does and say? If [censored] Pound did release this information to the newspaper, he needs to answer to a court of law. He [WADA]is supposed to be "the guardian at the gate" of drug enforcement. The professionalism of WADA has been seriously compromised by the "alleged" actions of Pound.

The newspaper in question is not reporting the story in the manner of professionalism, but rather in the intent of "sensationalism." But that is what sells newspapers.
The report that came out of Belgium a few weeks ago showed the public exactly what that particular French newspapers standards are. And this needs to be noted by the public.
Is this newspaper a tabloid or a considered a serious newspaper in France? [Serious question]

If people that love this sport think that Pound's actions are not hurting the sport consider this...... My friends that understand sports do not consider professional cyclists that race in Europe to be real athletes. They have no respect for them. {And this disrespect goes to American riders as well as others} They put professional cycling standards right there on par with the WWF. And it's not because they think American sports are the center of the universe, because they are all going nuts over the World Cup.
Our sport has no respect outside of the world we as fans live in.

If you do not think this is bad for cycling, look at what has happened to track & Field. No one cares for it anymore in this country. We got tired of hearing all the doping stories. It is now a tabloid sport.

I am not defending the dopers. We need WADA. But we need WADA to follow their mission statement. [censored] Pound has rose above that mission statement to further his personel agenda.

Soon we will see a list of riders that will be connected to the Saiz case. There is a real good possibility that a big name or 2 in cycling are going to be connected with those Spanish apartments. Personally, I think it will be a individual that is standing on the podium in July. I seriously hope I am wrong. This sport needs to go beyond doping stories to stories of riders exploits on the bike.

I would like to point out that my weight varies over time also. I was around 6 lbs 8 ounces with no training and balooned up over time with training.
I have worn pink,even womens attire in pink and am not ashamed . I point out it wasn't mine and I mostly wore it on my head and I did return it to the owner in the morning, granted we could find it and it was still wearable. Sometimes not!
At that given moment I could not pronounce magenta and really didn't give a rats a** if I could. Is magenta a female body part? Never mind!
My point is I could wear a pink suit with electronic rotating pasties on it and could not stay with Jan,Basso or Lance on my best day.
Except in a chase car.
I bet I can drink with either of them and hold my own.
One must put emphasis on ones talents.
Viva Le Tour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! l LET THE BIG DOGS ROLL!

I find it interesting and to a point characteristic of this forum, that while the LA haters are perfectly willing to doubt the Dr's statements and records, ignore the fact that any medical history relative to LA would have been long before taken, ignore the credibility of everyone else in the room, ignore the fact that the insurance company lost the case (and had to pay 2.5 mil in punitive damages), ignore that again we seem to have a leak of confidential information to the French press, ignore that hey yet again its [censored] Pound, but give full credibility to Mr. and Mrs. Andreu, and miss or ignore the possibility that the Andreus were persuaded by an insurance co. that was going to lose 5+ million.

I guess thats what happens when emotions get in the way.

2002 is quite some time ago. Where is Andreu today? Still working for DC/Tailwind, or did he lose his job? Have his fortunes waned in the interim, leaving him and his spouse perhaps a bit bitter?

What they say goes against recorded medical history, and the testimony of several highly respected doctors. Testimony that was thoroughly rejected by the court. All this latest non evidence proves is who hates Armstrong, and at this late date, that should hardly be a mystery.

limerickman said:

This is factually incorrect and totally misleading.

Andreu was hired in 1998 by USPS from Cofidis.
Andreu was part of USPS 1999, 2001 and 2001 teams - after which he retired.

But this is the killer.
What did Andreu go on to do after he retired from USPS in 2001?

HE WAS APPOINTED ASSISTANT MANAGER AT USPS IN 2002.
Which kinda blows your latest urban myth about Armstrong dumping Andreu.

It should also be noted that that paragon of virtue, Mark Gorski, was USPS's manager from 1997-2002.
Him of the LA Olympics in 1984.

Gorski was (is) a partner in Tailwind Sports - the holding company for USPS/DC cycling outfit.

<<I do oppose his false claims.
He's a fraud.

Maybe he doesn't want to be pestered by trolls like you.[/QUOTE]>>

Limerickman....You, sir, are the biggest troll I have ever seen on any Forum. I have been a lurker here for a long time but enough of your Armstrong bashing agenda is enough. It gets really old reading it again and again and yet again...... it's quite pathetic. Also nauseating are your constant veiled refenences to being "in the know" or "knowing people".

Hell... if I was Armstrong I'd be sueing you for slander because that , sir, is what you seem to constantly engage in with your trolling.

Chrystie

I'm afraid that the emotions have carried the day and no one has been able to discuss anything rationally with respect to the latest articles in the cycling press this week.

I look forward to the results of all of the national road championships this weekend, and the start of the Tour, so we can have something else to talk about.

:eek:

andreu owns or manages or both the Toyota-United continental squad in the USA. they have big guys riding for them like chris wherry (reigning US national RR champion) and Juan Jose Haedo, a Latin American sprinter who will soon be racing in europe i'm sure.

I think his current work is doing a lot to promote cycling in a positive light and not stir up controversy and political battles. their ad campaign invites all interested parties to "join the team"

MikefrMd said:

This all just sour grapes.

People just always want to pull down those on top...thats just how it is.

In Europe they just loved Virenque and Pantani and a host of other confirmed dopers But they spit on LA.

No secret that the french press has always hated Armstrong....can't have a yank dominating their sacred race.

No the French press doesn't hate Armstrong and lots of Europeans don't like Virenque at all (i really don't like the guy). But fact is that a lot of people who worked with Armstrong are making doping allegations and as somebody stated before on this thread if they are all lying he must be a big [censored] (a lot of them dislike LA so much that they lied - IF they lied - in court). Here is a story about Stephen Swart (former Motorola team mate) who also says LA doped: nzherald.co.nzstory.cfmOpen ↗

For me the question is not do the French press hate LA (they don't - it just doesn't work like that - life isn't that simple), the question is who provided the information to Le Monde (and why) and which wars are going on behind the scene. LA wrote a letter to the IOC and suddenly this story comes out.

I wrote in other threads that there is a huge powerstruggle inside the UCI, i think some people are playing chess with LA but also with riders like Heras (which doesn't mean that i think Heras is innocent, he is quilty, he is a doper BUT i don't think that was something new for the UCI, i can't really believe that Heras doped for the first time at last years Vuelta). This powerstruggle is between the Mqaid-Verbrugghe faction and the Schenk/Spanish cycling federation faction. Verbrugghe is close to Armstrong and the Spanish cycling federation with Heras (at least.. they where...). But there is more, there is a second powerstruggle: between the grand tour organizers and the UCI. Who reached an agreement but it's a kind of truce, i wouldn't call it peace. The third conflict is between WADA and the UCI .

As some people said LA retired so who cares. I do, because although i'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, i think there is a much bigger story behind it. I'm not after LA (but i do think he doped, as Merckx and many others did - and yes it's only my opinion i can't proof it) , i'm after the story behind it. I think LA is probebly right when he says that he believes WADA leaked the information to Le Monde (and if they did Le Monde has to write about it, they make NEWSpapers and it's news - like i said before that has nothing to do with hating or loving LA, it's their job - even if people don't like the story, they also write about French dopers like the Roux brothers story about Jalabert earlier this week - everybody who thinks they write this because of some anti american sentiment is pretty naive), in fact it was my first thought as well(cyclignews of today: cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗ ).

I know [censored] Pound isn't after LA, he is after Hein Verbrugghe (former UCI president and still in control of everything). He uses LA in this game of chess and the way he does it sucks, Verbrugghe used Heras to let the Spanish cycling federation know to watch out and that sucks as well. It's all politics and for me it makes even more clear that it's important to get doping out of the sport. Even if we can't agree about the fact did LA dope or not it's important to start asking questions about what's exactly going on here.

The question is whats next? I don't know but what i do know is that i think that cycling fans should stand united against doping in general. It's important for the sport and enough cyclists have died (i stopped counting this year), the whole subject is much bigger as the question did LA....

In Germany there is a growing group of cycling fans who are discussing to take action ( fans-gegen-doping.defans-gegen-doping.deOpen ↗ ). They will take action during the TdF and the Tour of Germany by putting banners along the course and spreading leaflets. They won't disturb the races, as they are cycling fans and love the sport. They want to make the other spectators and the riders (and teams) clear that they want to see a clean race. They don't want to be used anymore to justify doping (some riders who got caught said well the fans always want to see new records) and they want the games between the varios factions to stop. It would be good if cycling fans in other countries would start similar iniatives.

wolfix said:

Is this newspaper a tabloid or a considered a serious newspaper in France? [Serious question]

Yes it's a serious newspaper, Le Monde is a leading newspaper in Europe.