Hit by car, from behind

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This notion does have merit. I've noticed that the further to the
right I get the closer drivers come. When I ride a bit more to the
left, they either wait or pass wide. Also, riding too far to the right
on some roads can be problematic due to debris, storm grates, etc.
Maybe this attitude is due in part to where I live (MD-DC Suburbs),
but, I'd never ride anywhere where the speed limit is more than 40 or
45. Roads like that are usually too heavily traveled and cyclists
aren't expected. That's the biggest problem.

I do it everyday, twice a day (well every work day anyway). Narrow,
(moderately) heavily travelled suburban roads with 55mph posted limits,
although 65 is more the norm on the straightaways. It takes practice to get
the nerve to "take the lane" out there, but it does work. The thing about
the "2nd car is the one that gets you" is also right on target. These are
the ones you can't do anything about except maybe to move over a few inches
as the first car passes. Keep riding and treat every day and ride like it
might be the last. It's hard to think about that but just don't fall into
the trap of thinking that if you're in a car you'll be safer. Ha!

Cheers!

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:11:04 GMT, [email hidden] (BigBen)

Quoted message said:

Today, a moron saw me cycling on the road, next to the pavement,
climbing, was overtaking me, and sudenly got distracted, started
coming right - my way - the outside rear view mirror or the Toyota
Hiace van - similar to Ford Transit - hit my head, and the the middle
of the van come in contact with the left side of my handlebar, which
was enough to make roll on the road, left side hip dow, then back, and
finally head against tubes on the pavement to prevent cars parking on
pavements.

This was at around 3 pm, perfect sunshine, the moron said he did see
me, but the got distracted, here's my "semi-technical" question:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

Chase the moron down, tie him up and read the "Spike Bike" series
(google for it) to him. You'll feel better after reading it, and
he'll think twice about what sort of armament the next cyclist he
passes might have on board.

Pat

Email address works as is.

Quoted message said:

Exactly! This works well for me in the Maryland Suburbs. Though, I
probably have a greater share of semiconscious to brain dead drivers in
this part of the country. LOL, I was riding along one early pre-rush
hour morning. A car passes me on the left. No problem. Then about
40-50 feet in front of me this driver starts merging in front of me.
He merged and merged and merged until he was up on the curb taking out
trees and mail boxes!! I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I
shudder to think what would have happened if Einstein had become
preoccupied with whatever he was doing behind me!!

Could you explain in more detail what the "merging" driver was doing? I
can't picture what happened, and would sure like to. Was there an
intersection involved?

Mark J.

Quoted message said:

Exactly! This works well for me in the Maryland Suburbs. Though, I
probably have a greater share of semiconscious to brain dead drivers in
this part of the country. LOL, I was riding along one early pre-rush
hour morning. A car passes me on the left. No problem. Then about
40-50 feet in front of me this driver starts merging in front of me.
He merged and merged and merged until he was up on the curb taking out
trees and mail boxes!! I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I
shudder to think what would have happened if Einstein had become
preoccupied with whatever he was doing behind me!!

that fellow was watching you in his mirror after he passed by, he
should be watching where he is going ( of course)- but for the fact
that he had already gone safely around you is all you need to concern
yourself with

Mark said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Footnotes:

1) I ride with a mirror, to keep an eye back there - but if I move over,
it's going to be at the last moment or so. No value to me or other
cyclists to show that I can be intimidated off the roadway.

2) Annoyingly, while the cars do move left to pass, they don't seem to
be able to register blind turns or oncoming traffic. Today I had a Semi
Gravel Truck pass me well over the centerline, *nearly* taking out an
oncoming garbage truck. All on a road with a minimum of 1/2 mile
visibility in both directions. I'm not sure if the flying debris would
have hit me or not, though the collision would have been spectacular -
but it pays to be alert in these situations.

Mark J.

In the city, I don't use a mirror lest it distract me- as far as I am
concerned there is a bus or a car coming up behind me- I try to ride as
predictably as possible, with speed to try to blend in with the flow of
traffic- the heavier the traffic the slower it will be, further the car
behind will be less likely to try to pass you unless it is quite safe.
It is fairly easy to keep a good pace with dense traffic because of
drafting. If traffic gets too jammed up, then it becomes safer,
although tricky, to ride between the cars when you have two lanes going
in the same direction- more drivers are afraid of the guy next to them
than the curb so theres a lot more room- you just have to watch out for
odd placed cars and unexplained gaps/ stops in traffic (someone could
be cutting across in front of you). When traffic starts moving again,
you have to slide back over to the curb lane. This works for me in my
area.

In the country I ride with a mirror on my glasses, I try to keep aware
of anything that might be coming down the road. If its big and heavy
and doesn't seem like he wants to go around then I move out further
into the lane so I can see if he is going to go around me or not - if
he doesn't intend to he will start blowing his horn, and of course you
have enough time to get off the road ( this has happened to me only
twice I think in 15 yrs). My other point I would like to make is to try
to make a reasonable compromise with trucks- if the shoulder is broken
and there is oncoming traffic, I'll pull over and let the truck go by
than force him into a choice of risking his skill combined with the
sometimes questionable maintenance of the truck against my life- I
ride because I enjoy my life, I don't do it to be a pain or a pest to
anyone.

Unfortunately, I have heard that traffic in Portugal is horrible, so I
realize that my methods probabally are ill advised there. I am sorry. I
will suggest asking a local bike club for their best advice. Regards

Laz

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

Chris Nelson said:

BigBen wrote:
> On 1 Aug 2006 12:44:10 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
> >mercy of motorists. One technique that seems to help me is to turn my
> >head and make eye contact with the driver. Seems like a nuisance, but I
> >seem to get more respect from drivers when the see my face and realize
> >that there is a human pedaling that thing. Of course, if the driver is
>
> Do you know the height of Toyota Hiace or Ford Transit? I'd get a back
> neck just to look at the guy. Besides, this did hapened in a busy
> road, where I was using my granny chainring - althought not my
> lightest cog - I had 2 more left...
>
> jbr

No, I am in the USA, so those vehicles will have different names, or
don't exist here. I have no suggestions for busy roads except to avoid
them.

Chris

Hiace is basically a mini-van in US terms.

Joseph

Ah yes, Toyoya Sienna. Driven mostly by soccer moms, talking on cell
phones, rushing their kids to practice. And you better not make them
late by clogging the road with your bike.

Chris

I was thinking more in terms of size. They are usually commercial
vehicles with the back full of plumbing supplies or vegetables or
something. The driver is still of course on the phone!

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Chris Nelson said:

Quoted message said:

Chris Nelson wrote:
> BigBen wrote:
> > On 1 Aug 2006 12:44:10 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >mercy of motorists. One technique that seems to help me is to turn my
> > >head and make eye contact with the driver. Seems like a nuisance, but I
> > >seem to get more respect from drivers when the see my face and realize
> > >that there is a human pedaling that thing. Of course, if the driver is
> >
> > Do you know the height of Toyota Hiace or Ford Transit? I'd get a back
> > neck just to look at the guy. Besides, this did hapened in a busy
> > road, where I was using my granny chainring - althought not my
> > lightest cog - I had 2 more left...
> >
> > jbr
>
> No, I am in the USA, so those vehicles will have different names, or
> don't exist here. I have no suggestions for busy roads except to avoid
> them.
>
> Chris

Hiace is basically a mini-van in US terms.

Joseph

Ah yes, Toyoya Sienna. Driven mostly by soccer moms, talking on cell
phones, rushing their kids to practice. And you better not make them
late by clogging the road with your bike.

Chris

I was thinking more in terms of size. They are usually commercial
vehicles with the back full of plumbing supplies or vegetables or
something. The driver is still of course on the phone!

Joseph

Gotcha. Toyota doesn't sell that type vehicle here. Too narrow. Us
Americans like big-wide vehicles that get really crappy gas mileage and
take up most of the road. We also have the extra-large-and-wide side
mirrors that the OP was hit with. I've been too close to those on
occasion.

Chris

BigBen said:

Not exactly technical so far - but I'll get to make "semi-technical"

Today, a moron saw me cycling on the road, next to the pavement,
climbing, was overtaking me, and sudenly got distracted, started
coming right - my way - the outside rear view mirror or the Toyota
Hiace van - similar to Ford Transit - hit my head, and the the middle
of the van come in contact with the left side of my handlebar, which
was enough to make roll on the road, left side hip dow, then back, and
finally head against tubes on the pavement to prevent cars parking on
pavements.

This was at around 3 pm, perfect sunshine, the moron said he did see
me, but the got distracted, here's my "semi-technical" question:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

Nothing-not your day. I got hit from behind by a woman in a Dodge
Dakota that FELL ASLEEP at 10 am on a Saturday...true story-not my day
either-

Quoted message said:

(I've always thought it was a childish thing, but I'm definitelly
considering using a modified "lollipop" on my bike, with the round
reflective part balancing and rotating to the wind.)

They said they 'saw' you, then got distracted, the lolipop wouldn't
have made any difference.\

Quoted message said:

Not (bi)cycle related, but just heard today that a friend of mine had
a bad motorcycle accident on Sunday, and is laying, waiting to have
some plates and screws bolted to one of his legs.... Anybody has some
spare Prozac around??

PS - Well, at least I lived to tell the story, and with no plates and
screws too, but this just made my wife more suspicious of anything
with less than 4 wheels, or cyclepaths :-( Bloody morons!

jbr

Quoted message said:

Make sure you go to a doctor and get checked out. Just because you
feel fine now, doesn't mean you will later. When I say get it checked
out, I mean GET CHECKED OUT! X-Rays, Orthopedist, etc. I don't know
how old you are. But, as you age this thing could manifest itself in
years of pain that could have been avoided by early treatment! And
make that driver pay for it too! After all, you shouldn't have to pay
for his/her inattentiveness.

As for clueless drivers. Man, when I go for rides, I never take it for
granted that I'm coming home. These idiots out here are on the phone,
eating, etc whilst manuvering a multiton vehicle. All you can do is
wear the brightest, most outlandish colors out there and pray. Riding
in the wee hours of the morning helps too. And, don't even think of
riding during rush hour.

On the contrary, on an incident per capita basis, I have found country
riding an order of magnitiude or more dangerous than urban rush-hour
riding. No I am not kidding.

In the country, you'll get the country-drunk who hits you, the country
curmudgeon who sideswipes you on the narrow part of the road, the
horn-mashers who startle you in a curve, the old ladies who "didn't see
you" and the swamp yankees who honk, edge into your lane, curse at you,
and tell you to "get off the frikken road." And you get young folk who
throw bottles at you from behind, or push you off the road from out the
passenger side window. In the city, most people are afraid to do that,
because they assume all the nose-ringed gothic bikers are packing.

Something about the countryside that makes people think there is no
need to pay attention. Also, they drive too fast. In the city, you are
usually going nearly as fast if not faster than the cars, which makes
it easier for them to avoid hitting you. And furthermore, the drivers
in the city are far more accustomed to bicycle traffic, as they
encounter bicycles on a daily basis. The country driver hasn't seen a
bike in years.

On Tue, 01 Aug 2006 19:11:04 GMT, [email hidden] (BigBen)

Quoted message said:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

To answer my own question, anything "abnormal", out of ordinary that
makes cagers pay us more attention, even if they laugh of us till they
cry, as long as they don't touch us.

I'm thinkiing of a few that I implement on either me or the bike, but
the hanging lollipo stills seems the most to make it to my bike.

Any further sugestions welcome.

Ride to ride another day!
jbr

wow, that sounds terrifying. where do you live/bike?

bill a écrit :

Quoted message said:

On the contrary, on an incident per capita basis, I have found country
riding an order of magnitiude or more dangerous than urban rush-hour
riding. No I am not kidding.

In the country, you'll get the country-drunk who hits you, the country
curmudgeon who sideswipes you on the narrow part of the road, the
horn-mashers who startle you in a curve, the old ladies who "didn't see
you" and the swamp yankees who honk, edge into your lane, curse at you,
and tell you to "get off the frikken road." And you get young folk who
throw bottles at you from behind, or push you off the road from out the
passenger side window. In the city, most people are afraid to do that,
because they assume all the nose-ringed gothic bikers are packing.

Something about the countryside that makes people think there is no
need to pay attention. Also, they drive too fast. In the city, you are
usually going nearly as fast if not faster than the cars, which makes
it easier for them to avoid hitting you. And furthermore, the drivers
in the city are far more accustomed to bicycle traffic, as they
encounter bicycles on a daily basis. The country driver hasn't seen a
bike in years.

On 1 Aug 2006 13:52:32 -0700, "Chris Nelson" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

No, I am in the USA, so those vehicles will have different names, or
don't exist here. I have no suggestions for busy roads except to avoid

Just as high, or higher, that an SUV, and almost as long a limousine.

Ride to ride another day.
jbr

Quoted message said:

Sue him until you own his car and his house.

Blair, justice doesn't work the say in all parts of the world.

Round here, we don't it works at all - if I were to render you a
service, and you didn't pay me, I'd be figuring if the lawyer bills,
and they years waiting for the case to settle would make it worth
going after my money (and work).

Quoted message said:

Wait. This isn't America? Then you're probably screwed, legally.

Right on, babe!

Ride to ride another day.
jbr

bill said:

In the country, you'll get the country-drunk who hits you, the country
curmudgeon who sideswipes you on the narrow part of the road, the
horn-mashers who startle you in a curve, the old ladies who "didn't see
you" and the swamp yankees who honk, edge into your lane, curse at you,
and tell you to "get off the frikken road." And you get young folk who
throw bottles at you from behind, or push you off the road from out the
passenger side window. In the city, most people are afraid to do that,
because they assume all the nose-ringed gothic bikers are packing.

I'd be carrying a gun when cycling, and assuring tyre repair garages
had enough to stay in business.

(It's not easy to get a gun in Portugal as in the US...)

Ride to ride another day.
jbr

jtaylor said:

Wear, as much as possible, clothing that makes you look like a constable on
a bicycle.

I LIKED THAT!

I don't know - yet - where I'll find such cloths, but damn, I like the
idea!

Thanks a lot!

autopi said:

wow, that sounds terrifying. where do you live/bike?

Well, that is a composite of experiences in Maryland and Connecticut
and rural Pennsylvania. In rural Maryland (an endangerred species
now--most of it has become McMansions for the wealthy "upper middle
class" commuters to the beltway or Annapolis), you have to watch out
for loose dogs and dangerous young drivers looking for trouble. Been in
situations with them many times there. Less so but still a threat in
Pennsylvania. (The worst bottle incident happened to a friend In
Collegeviulle PA and the police merely made the driver write an
apology, in which he said he didn't mean to hit my friend, but was
merly littering. Oh, and no, he was not cited for littering.) In
Connecticut, it is less the youth creating trouble, but more the adults
who never learned to be civilized to begin with, and so it is usually
some obnoxiously wealthy ass&*^$ in a dodge ram pickup who moves into
your lane in a 25 mph zone in the shopping district, where there are
two lanes each way, and rolls down the window and says, "get on the
sidewalk where you belong" and then threatens to call the cops if you
don't. Then you remind him that in fact he is breaking the law, at
which point he swerves and takes the rest of your lane. A young man who
rode close to the shoulder in my neighborhood, on a 35 mph road, got
mowed down one moring and killed by a woman who "didn't see him." No,
ther eaws no jail time. This is in a summer resort area that has a lot
of retirees. I got sideswiped by one of them myself.

That's country riding for you.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Nothing-not your day. I got hit from behind by a woman in a Dodge
Dakota that FELL ASLEEP at 10 am on a Saturday...true story-not my day
either-

Good Lord, just when you think you've heard it all

Quoted message said:

They said they 'saw' you, then got distracted, the lolipop wouldn't
have made any difference.\

After seeing the lollipoo, or something else strange, they might
occupy their minds with "what on earth is this wako using this for",
instead of, "oh, let me just change the radio station"

I'm specially thinking of lollipo that can be perceived as hard,
metal, swinging, and a potential hazard to shiny cagers paintworks, so
they take care to stay away from it ;-)

BigBen said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Nothing-not your day. I got hit from behind by a woman in a Dodge
Dakota that FELL ASLEEP at 10 am on a Saturday...true story-not my day
either-

Good Lord, just when you think you've heard it all

Quoted message said:

They said they 'saw' you, then got distracted, the lolipop wouldn't
have made any difference.\

After seeing the lollipoo, or something else strange, they might
occupy their minds with "what on earth is this wako using this for",
instead of, "oh, let me just change the radio station"

I'm specially thinking of lollipo that can be perceived as hard,
metal, swinging, and a potential hazard to shiny cagers paintworks, so
they take care to stay away from it ;-)

Somebody a while back suggested a flag mounted on a horizontal pole with
a pointy, metallic-looking end. The theory was that cagers would fear
to approach because they might scratch their car.

Might work.

Maybe.

Pat

For dense traffic, I always wanted to put a metallic copper brush on a
stick, about a meter away on my left side. So if a car comes too close,
it will just scrap its paint all over the side.... I am sure the
driver, caring more for his car than for the human driving the bike,
will make the effort to leave a decent distance...

....however, I doubt this would be usefull in a rural area, and I also
doubt that it is legal to have such a thing on your bike (could hurt
pedestrians).

Jean

BigBen said:

Not exactly technical so far - but I'll get to make "semi-technical"

Today, a moron saw me cycling on the road, next to the pavement,
climbing, was overtaking me, and sudenly got distracted, started
coming right - my way - the outside rear view mirror or the Toyota
Hiace van - similar to Ford Transit - hit my head, and the the middle
of the van come in contact with the left side of my handlebar, which
was enough to make roll on the road, left side hip dow, then back, and
finally head against tubes on the pavement to prevent cars parking on
pavements.

This was at around 3 pm, perfect sunshine, the moron said he did see
me, but the got distracted, here's my "semi-technical" question:

what on earth can you do, in broad daylight, to make cagers more
attenttive to us???

(I've always thought it was a childish thing, but I'm definitelly
considering using a modified "lollipop" on my bike, with the round
reflective part balancing and rotating to the wind.)

Not (bi)cycle related, but just heard today that a friend of mine had
a bad motorcycle accident on Sunday, and is laying, waiting to have
some plates and screws bolted to one of his legs.... Anybody has some
spare Prozac around??

PS - Well, at least I lived to tell the story, and with no plates and
screws too, but this just made my wife more suspicious of anything
with less than 4 wheels, or cyclepaths :-( Bloody morons!

jbr

Pat Lamb said:

Somebody a while back suggested a flag mounted on a horizontal pole with
a pointy, metallic-looking end. The theory was that cagers would fear
to approach because they might scratch their car.

I like that! Will keep it in mind.

Thank you,

Jean H. said:

...however, I doubt this would be usefull in a rural area, and I also
doubt that it is legal to have such a thing on your bike (could hurt
pedestrians).

Could... But a small motorcyle metalic reflective plate, hanging from
one point only, swinging in the wind and curves, just might do the
trick; and you could always argue you ment to have it hang by 2
points, but the 2nd one broke, leaving it hang only by the one futher
to the left :-P