Re: visiting Philadelphia on a bicycle

Sharon and I rode into and out from Philadelphia yet again last weekend --
routes new for us in both directions, mostly in Montgomery county. Came away
impressed by how many interesting bicycle-friendly roads there are in
southeastern Pennsylvania -- and how many pretty stone buildings.

We were especially struck by all the nice stone houses in the Mt Airy and
Chestnut Hill neighborhoods of Philadelphia. I don't know a better
collection in any North American city (but I'd love to hear some
nominations). We also found that the tradition of interesting stone-work has
found its way into some of the new construction further north in the
suburbs, more so than we've noticed lots of other places in the northeast
U.S.

In the past I've criticized eastern PA roads as being too much straight
lines and 90-degree angles, going straight up over ridges with no attempt to
smooth the grade, followed by a steep downhill into a stop sign. This time I
did some advance searching for roads with curves, and I used topo map
software to eliminate roads with the worst hills. Almost all roads we'd
never ridden on before.

The surprise was that a very high percentage of the roads had reasonably
wide traffic lanes, and most were pleasant to ride. So we're planning to
ride some of them again sometime in the next year. For the USA, I think
that's a rather good percentage from just picking roads off a map. I suspect
what's changed in the last ten years or so is that Pennsylvania has been
improving the roads -- and modern topo software is helping me find the kind
I like.

This time we started in Perkasie, first west to the valley of Perkiomen
creek, south to Collegeville, east mostly on Germantown Pike and Ridge Av
into Philadelphia as far as the Walnut Lane bridge (most of the way on just
4 roads). Returned thru Chestnut Hill, Ambler, North Wales, Lansdale,
Hatfield, Souderton (on lots and lots of different roads).

So we're feeling with those together with Allentown Rd last week, now we've
got enough good roads to make a 135-140 mile loop starting up north from
Bethlehem riding into Philadelphia and going back a different way. Problem
is that we now have three nice north-south routes we want to ride again, but
we only need two for the loop.

Ken

Interesting.

I'm still researching some routes from NYC to Philly. Any suggestions?

I can't wait to test them soon. But where is a good place to stay for
the night? Their YMCAs don't seem to offer lodging. The weird but
inexpensive Divine Tracy Hotel is no longer.

Ken Roberts said:

Sharon and I rode into and out from Philadelphia yet again last weekend --
routes new for us in both directions, mostly in Montgomery county. Came away
impressed by how many interesting bicycle-friendly roads there are in
southeastern Pennsylvania -- and how many pretty stone buildings.

We were especially struck by all the nice stone houses in the Mt Airy and
Chestnut Hill neighborhoods of Philadelphia. I don't know a better
collection in any North American city (but I'd love to hear some
nominations). We also found that the tradition of interesting stone-work has
found its way into some of the new construction further north in the
suburbs, more so than we've noticed lots of other places in the northeast
U.S.

In the past I've criticized eastern PA roads as being too much straight
lines and 90-degree angles, going straight up over ridges with no attempt to
smooth the grade, followed by a steep downhill into a stop sign. This time I
did some advance searching for roads with curves, and I used topo map
software to eliminate roads with the worst hills. Almost all roads we'd
never ridden on before.

The surprise was that a very high percentage of the roads had reasonably
wide traffic lanes, and most were pleasant to ride. So we're planning to
ride some of them again sometime in the next year. For the USA, I think
that's a rather good percentage from just picking roads off a map. I suspect
what's changed in the last ten years or so is that Pennsylvania has been
improving the roads -- and modern topo software is helping me find the kind
I like.

This time we started in Perkasie, first west to the valley of Perkiomen
creek, south to Collegeville, east mostly on Germantown Pike and Ridge Av
into Philadelphia as far as the Walnut Lane bridge (most of the way on just
4 roads). Returned thru Chestnut Hill, Ambler, North Wales, Lansdale,
Hatfield, Souderton (on lots and lots of different roads).

So we're feeling with those together with Allentown Rd last week, now we've
got enough good roads to make a 135-140 mile loop starting up north from
Bethlehem riding into Philadelphia and going back a different way. Problem
is that we now have three nice north-south routes we want to ride again, but
we only need two for the loop.

Ken

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Interesting.

I'm still researching some routes from NYC to Philly. Any suggestions?

Adventure Cycling route.

NYC XYZ wrote

Quoted message said:

I'm still researching some routes from NYC to Philly.

I've skated a route from Philadelphia to the GWB, doing different stages in
different months. Here's some notes
http://roberts-1.com/sk8hv/v/2/nj/trenton
My approach was to stop at lots of train stations along the northeast
corridor line, try to avoid some of the high-traffic roads, and see some
sights along the way like Independence Hall, NJ state capitol buildings,
Princeton and Rutgers universities, the third road above the intersection of
the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Pkwy, downtown Newark, and of course going
over the GWB. I guess lots of people would find that route(s) too
complicated, but I like exploring quiet roads.

I recall there's at least two other routes on the web, one is Bill
Cotton's -- and they take different strategies, like I'm not sure how many
of those "tourist" sites they visit. At least one does not go over the
GWB -- which strikes me odd, since that's the most spectacular section of
riding on the whole trip. About a year ago in NJ I met a guy riding across
the country, and he said his route maps told him to just stop riding in
Newark and take the train from there into Manhattan. I told him I thought it
was unthinkable to come across the whole USA and miss riding the last 15
miles into Manhattan, so I gave him a county map and sketched out a route
for him.

Ken

Mike Kruger said:

Adventure Cycling route.

Heh.

Besides that -- which I already have.

There seems to be quite a number of them. I'd like to compare and
contrast, and try some out bit by bit.

Ken Roberts said:

I've skated a route from Philadelphia to the GWB, doing different stages in
different months. Here's some notes
http://roberts-1.com/sk8hv/v/2/nj/trenton
My approach was to stop at lots of train stations along the northeast
corridor line, try to avoid some of the high-traffic roads, and see some
sights along the way like Independence Hall, NJ state capitol buildings,
Princeton and Rutgers universities, the third road above the intersection of
the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Pkwy, downtown Newark, and of course going
over the GWB. I guess lots of people would find that route(s) too
complicated, but I like exploring quiet roads.

I do, too -- and I'm curious as to which are quiet ones, which scenic
ones, which hit all the tourist sites, which are most direct from A to
B, which are flattest, etc. I could do NJ Transit, to be sure, but I'd
rather bike the whole thing...nothing like saying you're from New York
when you're far from New York!

Quoted message said:

I recall there's at least two other routes on the web, one is Bill
Cotton's -- and they take different strategies, like I'm not sure how many
of those "tourist" sites they visit. At least one does not go over the
GWB -- which strikes me odd, since that's the most spectacular section of
riding on the whole trip. About a year ago in NJ I met a guy riding across
the country, and he said his route maps told him to just stop riding in
Newark and take the train from there into Manhattan. I told him I thought it
was unthinkable to come across the whole USA and miss riding the last 15
miles into Manhattan, so I gave him a county map and sketched out a route
for him.

Ayup -- that's the Adventure Cycling map he's got. It's exactly where
they end: the train at Newark, barely fifteen miles away!

There's an annual PA to NYC Peter Odell Century (actually, all of 125
miles from Philly proper), but they don't publish any maps or cue
sheets for sale. It's another few days before the close of
registration for this year! They ride September 3rd. Wonder if I
should take NJ Transit over...I'd have to ride between train stations,
and more than once, too, but it should be interesting...hmm!!!

Quoted message said:

Ken

Thanks for the refs. See you on the road some time!

NYC XYZ wrote

Quoted message said:

I'm curious as to which are quiet ones, which scenic ones,

If you want quiet and scenic, then I'd suggest some totally different
touring idea. Between NYC + Phila is one of highest people density and
motor-vehicle density areas in North America.

And I think the most "scenic" parts of the area are New York City itself and
the city of Philadelphia. If looking for scenery there's not much point in
riding in between the two -- instead just put your bike on the train and use
the time saved to spend more time exploring around each city on each end.

Having done both, my feeling is that NYC to Albany is clearly superior for
variety of scenery, and in its northern section for quiet roads. And I'd say
the tourist / historic sites through the Hudson valley are more interesting.
And while I prefer some quieter roads and different towns for some sections
(http://roberts-1.com/bikehudson/r/nyc_albany), the official "NY Bicycle
Route 9" (with road-sign markers) from NYC to Albany is a decent base route
to which you can add your own improvements and variations.

Ken

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ken Roberts said:

I've skated a route from Philadelphia to the GWB, doing different stages
in
different months. Here's some notes
http://roberts-1.com/sk8hv/v/2/nj/trenton
My approach was to stop at lots of train stations along the northeast
corridor line, try to avoid some of the high-traffic roads, and see some
sights along the way like Independence Hall, NJ state capitol buildings,
Princeton and Rutgers universities, the third road above the intersection
of
the NJ Turnpike and Garden State Pkwy, downtown Newark, and of course
going
over the GWB. I guess lots of people would find that route(s) too
complicated, but I like exploring quiet roads.

I do, too -- and I'm curious as to which are quiet ones, which scenic
ones, which hit all the tourist sites, which are most direct from A to
B, which are flattest, etc. I could do NJ Transit, to be sure, but I'd
rather bike the whole thing...nothing like saying you're from New York
when you're far from New York!

Quoted message said:

I recall there's at least two other routes on the web, one is Bill
Cotton's -- and they take different strategies, like I'm not sure how
many
of those "tourist" sites they visit. At least one does not go over the
GWB -- which strikes me odd, since that's the most spectacular section of
riding on the whole trip. About a year ago in NJ I met a guy riding
across
the country, and he said his route maps told him to just stop riding in
Newark and take the train from there into Manhattan. I told him I thought
it
was unthinkable to come across the whole USA and miss riding the last 15
miles into Manhattan, so I gave him a county map and sketched out a route
for him.

Ayup -- that's the Adventure Cycling map he's got. It's exactly where
they end: the train at Newark, barely fifteen miles away!

Woa!! Every cue and route on my site is made and rode by me. I just got home
an hour ago riding a different route from Philly to Sea Isle City
http://www.billcotton.com/Bill%20cotton%20cue%20sheets.htm I spent the night
and rode back today.
I have cue on my webpage that from Newark to the GW bridge and tell you how
to get down to the Hudson Bike Path.
http://www.billcotton.com/GW%20bridge.htm
The Peter Odel ride by Bicycle Club of Philadelphia is Sunday Sept 3, 06.
This ride use the Hobkon ferry to enter NY. Contact BCP at
http://phillybikeclub.org/
The East Coast Greenway Mane to Florida. One day totally off road. Ridable
Now with on roads connection I and several people from BCP planned toe
Pennsylvania links, It is completly signed, BikePA E Route. ( my web also
have the other BikePA letter routes
http://www.billcotton.com/bikepa_s_route.htm ) The ECGA can be reach here
http://www.billcotton.com/east_coast_greenway.htm .

Quoted message said:

There's an annual PA to NYC Peter Odell Century (actually, all of 125
miles from Philly proper), but they don't publish any maps or cue
sheets for sale. It's another few days before the close of
registration for this year! They ride September 3rd. Wonder if I
should take NJ Transit over...I'd have to ride between train stations,
and more than once, too, but it should be interesting...hmm!!!

Quoted message said:

Ken

Thanks for the refs. See you on the road some time!

Good stuff!

I've not explored Jersey much past Newark, so thanks...it was nice to
see that some of your routes were familiar to me...confirm or deny:
more downhills than up going north-to-south in Jersey??

Congrats on yet another happy return. You're a one-man bike club!

Bill Cotton said:

Woa!! Every cue and route on my site is made and rode by me. I just got home
an hour ago riding a different route from Philly to Sea Isle City
http://www.billcotton.com/Bill%20cotton%20cue%20sheets.htm I spent the night
and rode back today.
I have cue on my webpage that from Newark to the GW bridge and tell you how
to get down to the Hudson Bike Path.
http://www.billcotton.com/GW%20bridge.htm
The Peter Odel ride by Bicycle Club of Philadelphia is Sunday Sept 3, 06.
This ride use the Hobkon ferry to enter NY. Contact BCP at
http://phillybikeclub.org/
The East Coast Greenway Mane to Florida. One day totally off road. Ridable
Now with on roads connection I and several people from BCP planned toe
Pennsylvania links, It is completly signed, BikePA E Route. ( my web also
have the other BikePA letter routes
http://www.billcotton.com/bikepa_s_route.htm ) The ECGA can be reach here
http://www.billcotton.com/east_coast_greenway.htm .

Say, do you really mean to use "9" from NYC to Albany? It's really
full of traffic. I know some parts of it have separate bikeways, but,
having done it from the Bear Mountain Bridge (Peekskill) back down into
the Bronx and Manhattan, it's not the most fun on a bike I know of, for
the most part! Does it improve the closer one gets to Albany? I'd
love to visit Glenmont again! So there's Philly, DC, Albany, and
Boston to check out -- the ultimate for the foreseeable future would be
down to Florida! (Damn, I wonder when I'm supposed to get time for
kayaking!)

Interesting what you say about the roads between Philly and NYC.
Googlemaps makes it look like farmland! The tricky thing for me is the
river crossings. I also wonder about pitching up a tent and camping
somewhere overnight, in case I somehow enjoy the journey so much I
don't rush into Philly in a day's time. Seems like I'd have to do that
"stealth camping" stuff?? Any bears or hillbilles with shotguns out
there?

Ken Roberts said:

If you want quiet and scenic, then I'd suggest some totally different
touring idea. Between NYC + Phila is one of highest people density and
motor-vehicle density areas in North America.

And I think the most "scenic" parts of the area are New York City itself and
the city of Philadelphia. If looking for scenery there's not much point in
riding in between the two -- instead just put your bike on the train and use
the time saved to spend more time exploring around each city on each end.

Having done both, my feeling is that NYC to Albany is clearly superior for
variety of scenery, and in its northern section for quiet roads. And I'd say
the tourist / historic sites through the Hudson valley are more interesting.
And while I prefer some quieter roads and different towns for some sections
(http://roberts-1.com/bikehudson/r/nyc_albany), the official "NY Bicycle
Route 9" (with road-sign markers) from NYC to Albany is a decent base route
to which you can add your own improvements and variations.

Ken

Ken Roberts said:

NYC XYZ wrote

Quoted message said:

I'm curious as to which are quiet ones, which scenic ones,

If you want quiet and scenic, then I'd suggest some totally different
touring idea. Between NYC + Phila is one of highest people density and
motor-vehicle density areas in North America.

And I think the most "scenic" parts of the area are New York City itself and
the city of Philadelphia. If looking for scenery there's not much point in
riding in between the two -- instead just put your bike on the train and use
the time saved to spend more time exploring around each city on each end.

There's pleanty of scenery in NJ. You just have to get away from the
turnpike corridor.

Janet

Janet wrote

Quoted message said:

There's pleanty of scenery in NJ. You just have to get away from the
turnpike corridor.

I agree that there's some scenery to be found on bicycle tours in New
Jersey, and the idea that most of it is to be found elsewhere than the
corridor between Philadelphia and New York City sounds closely in harmony
with that I was saying.

But I do not agree that you "just" have to get away from that corridor -- I
think you also need some specific positive pointers about where to look for
scenic bicycle tours.

So how about some suggestions for scenic bicycling in New Jersey?

Here's some of mine:
* lots of roads in western NJ around 10 miles from the Delaware river from
Belvidere down to Lambertville.
* lots of water + skyline + seaport views of the Hudson river and Newark Bay
around Hoboken, Jersey City, and Bayonne.
* a short section in the southern part of the Sandy Hook trail in between
the ocean and the bay, and some views of the bay between Bay Head and
Seaside Heights -- but it's not so easy to put together a substantial Jersey
shore ride of consistent quality.

Ken

Bill Cotton wrote

Quoted message said:

Woa!!

Bill, I voluntarily and gladly gave prominent mention to your route in my
earlier post on subject.

I did not say there, and did not believe and do not believe that your route
avoids the GWB. But as you seem well aware, there are other routes which
definitely do avoid the GWB. Those are the ones I was complaining about --
though I have doubts that it's a good time to try riding the GWB, because
I've heard the south sidewalk might be closed for awhile, and the north
sidewalk is not much fun.

All I said was that your route from Phila to NYC has a different strategy
than what I skated. I then said what my strategy was. But I did not presume
to say what your strategy was. So how about taking this opportunity to give
us a few sentences to characterize your route?

What's the overall strategy of your Phila to NYC route, and what did you
feel were some of the highlights from when you rode it?

Ken

NYC XYZ wrote

Quoted message said:

Say, do you really mean to use "9" from NYC to Albany?

"New York state Bicycle route 9" is mostly different from the route 9 shown
on most NY road maps -- though I've heard that the two overlap for some
miles in Columbia county.

Quoted message said:

having done it from the Bear Mountain Bridge (Peekskill)
back down into the Bronx and Manhattan

NY state Bicycle route 9 does not go thru Peekskill or Bronx, last I
checked. I've only ridden a few sections of it.

Try a web search for something like "New York Bicycle Route 9".

Ken

"Ken Roberts" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bill Cotton wrote

Quoted message said:

Woa!!

Bill, I voluntarily and gladly gave prominent mention to your route in my
earlier post on subject.

I did not say there, and did not believe and do not believe that your
route avoids the GWB. But as you seem well aware, there are other routes
which definitely do avoid the GWB. Those are the ones I was complaining
about -- though I have doubts that it's a good time to try riding the
GWB, because I've heard the south sidewalk might be closed for awhile, and
the north sidewalk is not much fun.

Inserted from a previous post

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I recall there's at least two other routes on the web, one is Bill
Cotton's -- and they take different strategies, like I'm not sure how

Quoted message said:

Ayup -- that's the Adventure Cycling map he's got. It's exactly where
they end: the train at Newark, barely fifteen miles away!

Woa!! Every cue and route on my site is made and rode by me. I just got home
an hour ago riding a different route from Philly to Sea Isle City
http://www.billcotton.com/Bill%20cotton%20cue%20sheets.htm

The "woa" was for the paragraph above "that's the Adventure Cycling map he's
got. " I think someone else wrote that Ken.
I have a cue that goes from Philly to St Johnbury, New Hampshire. It goes
through Hackettown NJ. near there is a include railroad, road marker lining
George Washington's retreat route from New York to Pennsylvania near Rt. 31
northern end and the town of Washington is waiting for bicyclist to ride
through. I made the route at the request from this news group I rode it from
Frenchtown to Hackettown.
I ride for health, in different directions to avoid boredom. Usually I find
site that are interesting and I try to remember to report them.