VO2max training power?

TTer,

how do you normally decide on your power training zones? Have you ever done an incremental test to exhaustion, as I recommend to calculate your MAP?

For VO2 max i train at 90 to 105% of MAP up short hills (i.e., 1 to 5-mins) and about 80 to 85% of MAP on the trainer.

It's likely that the 375 W is very close to your MAP.

Ric

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by TTer
Previously I've pushed myself to do 5 x 4mins at 300W to try to increase VO2max. After a few weeks I managed to do all 5 intervals >300W, with some averaging about 310-312W.

I am now thinking about next year's training and last weekend I rode a hill climb, averaging 500W for 1minute, 480W for 1.5minutes, and 375W for 4minutes. The hill flattened out after half way, otherwise the overall average could maybe have been a little higher. I was completely exhausted at the end!

Anyway, my question, if I managed 375W for 4minutes, what %age of that should I train at to push VO2max? 350W for 4minutes? 375W for 3minutes? Or is a combination of different length intervals and powers best? Should I be aiming to match the power I achieved in the hill climb (which I surely should be able to repeat in training) rather than been a coward and riding at just say 300-310W (which I still found very hard, but maybe not as hard as I could manage)? I'm thinking I didn't push my VO2max efforts enough earlier this year and I'm looking to put that right for 2004.

Any advice appreciated!

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by ricstern
how do you normally decide on your power training zones? Have you ever done an incremental test to exhaustion, as I recommend to calculate your MAP?

I haven't used your MAP protocol for determining power zones yet Ric. I normally start at a level I feel I can manage then increase it whenever possible. If I'm not willing for the end to come quickly at the end of VO2max intervals then I know I can increase power. So I guess you could say by trial and error!

Do you think I'll get radically different results from MAP, or at least know my own limits better and force myself to aim higher and reach them (or pack up and go home to rest if not)?

It would make sense to complete the MAP test; as you have a tool that will allow you to train with precision there is no point in finding levels by 'Trial and Error'. A 'ramp' test to determine VO2 max or MAP is about the most commonly used tests going and one of the few tests that we are confident that we know what is happening and what the results mean.

If you divide your MAP by your mass you'll get power to weight as well which will give you an indication of your climbing ability.

2LAP/Ric, do you have a link to Ric's MAP protocol? I thought it was on your site Ric, but I can't find it, nor can I find it on cyclingnews.com ?? Is it still freely available online? TIA

It's at cyclingnews.com and the ABCC coaching site

http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=powerstern
http://www.abcc.freeserve.co.uk/powertrain1.html

Cheers
ric

Previously, I pushed myself to do 4 x 5 min at 300W to try to increase VO2max. After a few weeks, I managed to do everything every 5> 300W, some average of about 310-312W.

Now I'm thinking of forming the next year, and last weekend I rode a hill to climb, an average of 500W for 1 minute, 480W and 375W for 1.5 minutes to 4 minutes. Hill flat after half way, otherwise the average would be perhaps slightly higher. I was completely exhausted at the end!

Anyway, my question, if I managed 375W for four minutes, how old% of what you should train to boost VO2max? 350 W for 4 minutes? 375W three minutes? Or a combination of different duration intervals and better power? Should I try to compete with the power that I noticed the rise of the hill (which I doubt that you can repeat the training), rather than have a coward and mounted exactly 300 words, 310 W (I still find it very difficult , but maybe not as hard as I could)? I believe that my efforts did not push enough VO2max earlier this year and want to put this right in 2004.

All advice appreciated!

Quoted post said:

Originally Posted by jerseys98 [IMG]/img/forum/go_quote.gif[/IMG]

...All advice appreciated!

There are differing schools of thought in terms of the best way to improve VO2 max. The traditional approach is to ride hard enough to elicit your VO2 Max gas exchange rate and then hold it for a relatively long time (typically 4 to 6 minutes per effort), the other is to go hard enough to elicit VO2 Max gas exchange but not so much to hold it but instead to get up to that work intensity as many times as you can over the course of your VO2 Max training. So the first approach is to accumulate time at VO2 Max which implies power towards the low end of the range that elicits VO2 Max and the other is to focus on the frequency and number of times you can trigger VO2 Max gas exchange and that generally implies harder individual efforts but not sustained for as long.

Where they both agree is that you have to go hard enough to actually elicit VO2 Max gas exchange which is really hard no matter how you look at it. So at a minimum VO2 Max gas exchange implies maximal deep and frequent breathing to the point where conversation is basically impossible, but that's not enough as it also implies maximal cardiac output which is both high heart rate and efficient and high cardiac stroke volume which again implies some seriously hard effort.

I can't tell you exactly what numbers to use as training targets, but from what you describe (e.g. 375 watts for 4 minutes) then 310 watts is lowball and not likely to elicit VO2 Max even when sustained for a full five minutes and almost certainly not for shorter efforts if you're working the frequency vs. accumulated time approach to VO2 Max training. As a starting point I'd try targeting at least 90% of your best recent sustained power for the chosen durations and then tune that as necessary based on actual training results. For instance if you have managed 375 watts for four minutes and decide to do a fairly conventional 6x4 VO2 Max set ( which BTW emphasizes the accumulated time approach) you'd see if you can sustain at least 335 watts for each of the 4 minute efforts. If you simply can't get through the individual efforts and complete most if not all of the set (it usually takes athletes a while to build up to a full high quality 6x4 set) then you may have to target a bit less power next time. If you can easily complete the entire set then you should try for higher power in the latter intervals and or during subsequent sessions.

But this stuff is really hard work so if you feel you could have sustained a VO2 Max interval for a lot longer than the chosen duration (say you finish at the target 4 minutes but feel like you could have kept going for ten or more) then it's likely you're not going hard enough to actually elicit VO2 Max gas exchange rates and not likely to see a lot of pure VO2 Max progress. OTOH, if you simply cannot do the work or even with practice can't complete the set of intervals in a session then it pays to be pragmatic and figure out what level you can actually manage.

Good luck,
-Dave