Folding steel-bead tires

Gary Young said:

I was in Wal-Mart today and noticed that they had a line of steel-bead
tires that were folded flat and rolled the way kevlar-bead tires are.
They're made by Bell in 20", 24", 26", and 27" sizes and cost about $15. On
the back of the packaging was a line about "rugged carbon steel beads"
that allow folding.

I'd be great if this came to higher-quality tires, but something tells me
compromises were made. Anyone know the story?

Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.

dkl

Gary,

I got the 1.25x27 70ps round tires and they are great running about 60
psi. I also got an extra flat edge tire with 75-95 psi, but havent' put
that one on yet.

Changing tires is hell with folding Kevlars. I spent a few times trying
to put on with hands only. Rubbed thumbs raw, couldn't quite do it, and
popped a few tubes practicing for road preperations.

Real happy though with tires and I'm 240 lbs +. No problems, smooth
rolling, and check air about every 2 to 3 weeks (regular Bell $3 tubes,
and not hole fill tubes - don't need that [censored]).

That's the best thing about having a 27" tire frame :-) Check out the
cheap pneumatic air pump. I use zefal hand pump, but its the kind that
works with lighter. Tires, tubes, and helmet are only things I haven't
returned to Walmart bike stuff. The rest is pretty much [censored], but sold
on the kevlar tires and adequate tubes. Just look for threads on inside
edge of tires - saw one of those bad tires looking in box. Its all from
China, but just inspect carefully: good tires.

Gary Young said:

I was in Wal-Mart today and noticed that they had a line of steel-bead
tires that were folded flat and rolled the way kevlar-bead tires are.
They're made by Bell in 20", 24", 26", and 27" sizes and cost about $15. On
the back of the packaging was a line about "rugged carbon steel beads"
that allow folding.

I'd be great if this came to higher-quality tires, but something tells me
compromises were made. Anyone know the story?

ddog said:

Gary,

I got the 1.25x27 70ps round tires and they are great running about 60
psi. I also got an extra flat edge tire with 75-95 psi, but havent'
put that one on yet.

Changing tires is hell with folding Kevlars.

You've just been unlucky with the tyre and rim combinations you've tried.
For example, Vittoria Open Corsa 23 (Kevlar bead) is extremely easy to fit
and remove to/from Mavic Open Pro.

The folding version of Panaracer Pasela is not bad either.

~PB

Quoted message said:

Gary Young said:

I was in Wal-Mart today and noticed that they had a line of
steel-bead tires that were folded flat and rolled the way
kevlar-bead tires are. They're made by Bell in 20", 24", 26", and
27" sizes and cost about $15. On the back of the packaging was a
line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.

I'd be great if this came to higher-quality tires, but something
tells me compromises were made. Anyone know the story?

Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.

Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?

--
Philip Lee

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

Gary Young said:

... On the back of the packaging was a
line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.

Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.

Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?

I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
steel.

- Frank Krygowski

Quoted message said:

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

Gary Young wrote:
> ... On the back of the packaging was a
> line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.

Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.

Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?

I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
steel.

O Ya, that makes a -lot- of sense. Steel bead tires are folded flat
all the time.

Also, they're made by Cheng Shin.

dkl

ddog said:

.... Its all from
China, but just inspect carefully: good tires.

I agree. The tires the OP is referring to are very nice tires indeed.
Very light and flexible, the opposite of what I expected from a Cheng
Shin. My only other experience with Cheng Shins has been with their
dirtbike tires which are half the price of other brands and wear and
ride like iron. I put a set of the Bells (which are also available at
sportmart), huge 26x2.125 lightweight high pressure slicks on my
pedicab recently and now the buggy coasts half a mile given 15mph.

For a truly rewarding Cheng Shin experience without a pedicab, try one
of these six-buck chucks: http://www.chucksbikes.com/store/

-dkl

doug.landau said:

Quoted message said:

Phil said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Gary Young wrote:
>> ... On the back of the packaging was a
>> line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.
>
> Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
> the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.

Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?

I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
steel.

O Ya, that makes a -lot- of sense. Steel bead tires are folded flat
all the time.

Do you mean that all steel-bead tires can be folded flat? Just tried it and
don't see how. If you mean that tires like those I saw have been around
for a long time, then I'd still like to know how they differ from ordinary
steel-bead tires. More difficult to mount? Less protection against blowoff?

Quoted message said:

Also, they're made by Cheng Shin.

dkl

Gary Young said:

doug.landau said:

Quoted message said:

Phil, Non-Squid wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
> > Gary Young wrote:
> >> ... On the back of the packaging was a
> >> line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.
> >
> > Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
> > the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.
>
> Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?

I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
steel.

O Ya, that makes a -lot- of sense. Steel bead tires are folded flat
all the time.

Do you mean that all steel-bead tires can be folded flat? Just tried it and
don't see how. If you mean that tires like those I saw have been around
for a long time, then I'd still like to know how they differ from ordinary
steel-bead tires. More difficult to mount? Less protection against blowoff?

Hi Gary,

I was being sarcastic. Since steel wires and cables cannot be folded
flat, the tires to which you are referring must not have steel beads.
They must have kevlar beads. You noticed the discrepancy, which is
what prompted you to post. The marketing bozo who wrote the words on
the packaging either doesn't know that steel and carbon are two
different things or is just being cheesy and hawkish, and Krygowski is
either just being silly or else is so eager to say something snotty
that he didn't think things through and rushed his foot in his mouth.

:-)

Doug

Phil said:

Quoted message said:

Gary Young said:

I was in Wal-Mart today and noticed that they had a line of
steel-bead tires that were folded flat and rolled the way
kevlar-bead tires are. They're made by Bell in 20", 24", 26", and
27" sizes and cost about $15. On the back of the packaging was a
line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.

I'd be great if this came to higher-quality tires, but something
tells me compromises were made. Anyone know the story?

Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.

Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?

Hi Phil,

I was pretty much joking. Although it would work, I would be afraid of
chipping my teeth if I were to bite hard enough to penetrate the
rubber. I'd use a magnet if I could not tell from the feel.

Doug

doug.landau said:

Gary Young said:

doug.landau said:

[email hidden] wrote:
> Phil, Non-Squid wrote:
> > [email hidden] wrote:
> > > Gary Young wrote:
> > >> ... On the back of the packaging was a
> > >> line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.
> > >
> > > Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
> > > the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.
> >
> > Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?
>
> I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
> steel.
>

O Ya, that makes a -lot- of sense. Steel bead tires are folded flat
all the time.

Do you mean that all steel-bead tires can be folded flat? Just tried it and
don't see how. If you mean that tires like those I saw have been around
for a long time, then I'd still like to know how they differ from ordinary
steel-bead tires. More difficult to mount? Less protection against blowoff?

Hi Gary,

I was being sarcastic. Since steel wires and cables cannot be folded
flat, the tires to which you are referring must not have steel beads.
They must have kevlar beads. You noticed the discrepancy, which is
what prompted you to post. The marketing bozo who wrote the words on
the packaging either doesn't know that steel and carbon are two
different things

You're probably right about the beads really being kevlar (though I'm
surprised they wouldn't advertise that on the front of the package). But
I'm not sure why you're dragging carbon into this. As Frank alluded,
"carbon steel" is a common name for a type of steel often used in bicycle
parts. Besides, kevlar is rarely, if ever, referred to as "carbon," at
least not when it comes to bicycle parts (though I don't know whether
kevlar and carbon fiber are related chemically).

Quoted message said:

or is just being cheesy and hawkish, and Krygowski is
either just being silly or else is so eager to say something snotty
that he didn't think things through and rushed his foot in his mouth.

No, I think Frank was doing his best to make sense of a ridiculous
posting (not ha-ha ridiculous, but WTF ridiculous). Your first followup
was likewise so elliptical as to be incomprehensible.

Quoted message said:

doug.landau said:

Quoted message said:

Phil, Non-Squid wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> Gary Young wrote:
>>> ... On the back of the packaging was a
>>> line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.
>> Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
>> the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.
> Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?
I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
steel.

O Ya, that makes a -lot- of sense. Steel bead tires are folded flat
all the time.

Gary Young said:

Do you mean that all steel-bead tires can be folded flat? Just tried it and
don't see how. If you mean that tires like those I saw have been around
for a long time, then I'd still like to know how they differ from ordinary
steel-bead tires. More difficult to mount? Less protection against blowoff?

It's a double loop into 'thirds'. They don't go in half well at all.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Gary Young said:

doug.landau said:

Gary Young said:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2007 00:01:45 -0800, doug.landau wrote:
> [email hidden] wrote:
>> Phil, Non-Squid wrote:
>> > [email hidden] wrote:
>> > > Gary Young wrote:
>> > >> ... On the back of the packaging was a
>> > >> line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.
>> > >
>> > > Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're carbon. If
>> > > the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.
>> >
>> > Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?
>>
>> I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
>> steel.
>>
>
> O Ya, that makes a -lot- of sense. Steel bead tires are folded flat
> all the time.
>

Do you mean that all steel-bead tires can be folded flat? Just tried it and
don't see how. If you mean that tires like those I saw have been around
for a long time, then I'd still like to know how they differ from ordinary
steel-bead tires. More difficult to mount? Less protection against blowoff?

Hi Gary,

I was being sarcastic. Since steel wires and cables cannot be folded
flat, the tires to which you are referring must not have steel beads.
They must have kevlar beads. You noticed the discrepancy, which is
what prompted you to post. The marketing bozo who wrote the words on
the packaging either doesn't know that steel and carbon are two
different things

You're probably right about the beads really being kevlar (though I'm
surprised they wouldn't advertise that on the front of the package).

Indeed. "Kevlar" is one of those terms that makes the general public
think "Oh, wow , bulletproof." By contrast, "carbon steel" means
nothing to most people. It has no advertising cachet.

I'm not familiar with those tires, but I can't imagine why they
wouldn't advertise "kevlar" if that's what the beads consisted of.

Quoted message said:

But
I'm not sure why you're dragging carbon into this. As Frank alluded,
"carbon steel" is a common name for a type of steel often used in bicycle
parts. Besides, kevlar is rarely, if ever, referred to as "carbon," at
least not when it comes to bicycle parts (though I don't know whether
kevlar and carbon fiber are related chemically).

Like most hydroocarbon synthetics (i.e. plastics), kevlar has a lot of
carbon. One web source claims C = 77.06% H = 4.59% N =
12.84% O = 14.68%
But as with other synthetics, why would someone fixate on the carbon?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Krygowski is
either just being silly or else is so eager to say something snotty
that he didn't think things through and rushed his foot in his mouth.

No, I think Frank was doing his best to make sense of a ridiculous
posting (not ha-ha ridiculous, but WTF ridiculous).

That's correct.

- Frank Krygowski

A Muzi said:

Quoted message said:

doug.landau said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> Phil, Non-Squid wrote:
>
>> [email hidden] wrote:
>>
>>> Gary Young wrote:
>>>
>>>> ... On the back of the packaging was a
>>>> line about "rugged carbon steel beads" that allow folding.
>>>
>>> Bite them. If your teeth leave marks in the bead, they're
>>> carbon. If
>>> the bead leaves marks in your teeth, they're steel.
>>
>> Through the rubber and everything? Or is this in jest?
>
> I think he doesn't know that "carbon steel" refers to a certain type of
> steel.

O Ya, that makes a -lot- of sense. Steel bead tires are folded flat
all the time.

Gary Young said:

Do you mean that all steel-bead tires can be folded flat? Just tried
it and
don't see how. If you mean that tires like those I saw have been around
for a long time, then I'd still like to know how they differ from
ordinary
steel-bead tires. More difficult to mount? Less protection against
blowoff?

It's a double loop into 'thirds'. They don't go in half well at all.

Yup, here's an illustrated manual:
http://home.comcast.net/~mandmlj/tirefolding/

Mark J.

A Muzi said:

Gary Young said:

Do you mean that all steel-bead tires can be folded flat? Just tried it and
don't see how. If you mean that tires like those I saw have been around
for a long time, then I'd still like to know how they differ from ordinary
steel-bead tires. More difficult to mount? Less protection against blowoff?

It's a double loop into 'thirds'. They don't go in half well at all.

Just like coiling a bandsaw blade.

Wes S