Simoni power estimation

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

According to
www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2007/may07/may31news2 :

Gilberto Simoni (Saunier Duval-Prodir) conquered the 10.1-kilometre
Monte Zoncolan in 1850 metres per hour according to La Gazzetta dello
Sport. The speed, 39 minutes over the 1203 metres, 1850 VAM (Velocity
Ascended, Metres per hour Vm/h), was faster than that of Ivan Basso on
the Maielletta Passo Lanciano in 2006, 1805 VAM. Marco Pantani blasted
up the Alpe d'Huez with a 1791 VAM and Danilo Di Luca did the final
four kilometres of Tre Cime di Lavaredo with a 1750 VAM.

-----

The steep climb reduces the influence of rolling resistance and wind
resistance. Rolling resistance losses were further reduced by the
fresh pavement.

Profile of the climb:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/giro07/graphics/profile17a.gif

vertical gain: 1200 meters
effective climbing from rolling resistance (assume Crr = 0.5%) : 10.1
km * 0.005 = 50.5 meters
net effective climbing rate = (1200 + 50.5) / 1200 * 1850 = 1928 m/hr

Assume CdA =~ 0.3 m^2
speed = 10.1 km * 1850 m/hr / 1200 m / 3.6 (m/s / km/hr) = 4.32 m/sec
Assume rho = 1.2 kg / m^3
wind power = 4.32^3 * 1.2 * 0.3 / 2 = 14.6 watts (slightly less from
drafting, slightly more from nonuniform speed).

climbing + RR power = 1928 m/hr / 3600 s/hr * 9.8 m / s^2 = 5.25 W/kg
(total weight)

Assume bike + stuff = 9 kg
body = 60 kg

power/body mass = 5.25 W/kg * (69 / 60) + 14.5 W / 60 kg = 6.28 W/kg
for 0.65 hours.

--------------
So, for Old La Honda (393 meters, 7.3%, Woodside, CA), assuming Crr =
0.6%, assuming a critical power model with AWC/CP = 60 seconds:

OLH time = 13.88 minutes (6.56 W/kg)

(I solved this iteratively)

These numbers are not at the level of the great Alpe d'Huez climbs.
But we knew that already about Simoni...

Dan

Andy Coggan's data for power to weight ratio are:
Time
1 min 5 min 20 min
World Champ 11.50 7.60 6.62
World Class 10.90 7.06 6.14

It interpolates to a world class performance.

Phil H

Phil Holman said:

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

power/body mass = 5.25 W/kg * (69 / 60) + 14.5 W / 60 kg = 6.28 W/kg
for 0.65 hours.

In another forum, it was pointed out I overestimated wind resistance, due to the climb being a significant altitude. This would reduce the power to 6.26 W/kg. OTOH, I only guessed at CdA, using 0.3 m^2, and at Crr, using 0.5%.

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan's data for power to weight ratio are:
Time
1 min 5 min 20 min
World Champ 11.50 7.60 6.62
World Class 10.90 7.06 6.14

It interpolates to a world class performance.

Interesting. But then, that only puts Simoni in Bettini's class as a climber on 20-minute hills 🙂.

Dan

Dan Connelly said:

Phil Holman wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan's data for power to weight ratio are:
Time
1 min 5 min 20 min
World Champ 11.50 7.60 6.62
World Class 10.90 7.06 6.14

It interpolates to a world class performance.

Interesting. But then, that only puts Simoni in Bettini's class as a
climber on 20-minute hills 🙂.

Dan

One point of comparison: Andrew deals in "SRM power", while I tend to deal in "Powertap power", and the two differ by the drivetrain efficiency....

So an estimated 6.26 W/kg, assuming a drive train efficiency of 97%, becomes 6.45 W/kg up the Zoncolan. And the estimated power up OLH, 6.56 W/kg becomes 6.76 W/kg.

Dan

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 03:44:30 GMT, Dan Connelly

d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m said:

Phil Holman said:

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

power/body mass = 5.25 W/kg * (69 / 60) + 14.5 W / 60 kg = 6.28 W/kg
for 0.65 hours.

In another forum, it was pointed out I overestimated wind resistance, due to the climb being a significant altitude. This would reduce the power to 6.26 W/kg. OTOH, I only guessed at CdA, using 0.3 m^2, and at Crr, using 0.5%.

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan's data for power to weight ratio are:
Time
1 min 5 min 20 min
World Champ 11.50 7.60 6.62
World Class 10.90 7.06 6.14

It interpolates to a world class performance.

Interesting. But then, that only puts Simoni in Bettini's class as a climber on 20-minute hills 🙂.

Which might be perfectly fair, but what happens on a 40 minute hill? That's
where real climbers distinguis themselves. It's kinda hard to think of a 20
minute hill as a "sprinters climb" but by comparison.

Just more proof of what a badass the cricket is.

Ron

RonSonic said:

On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 03:44:30 GMT, Dan Connelly

d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m said:

Phil Holman said:

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m> wrote in message
> power/body mass = 5.25 W/kg * (69 / 60) + 14.5 W / 60 kg = 6.28 W/kg
> for 0.65 hours.
>

In another forum, it was pointed out I overestimated wind resistance, due to the climb being a significant altitude. This would reduce the power to 6.26 W/kg. OTOH, I only guessed at CdA, using 0.3 m^2, and at Crr, using 0.5%.

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan's data for power to weight ratio are:
Time
1 min 5 min 20 min
World Champ 11.50 7.60 6.62
World Class 10.90 7.06 6.14

It interpolates to a world class performance.

Interesting. But then, that only puts Simoni in Bettini's class as a climber on 20-minute hills 🙂.

Which might be perfectly fair, but what happens on a 40 minute hill? That's
where real climbers distinguis themselves. It's kinda hard to think of a 20
minute hill as a "sprinters climb" but by comparison.

Just more proof of what a badass the cricket is.

Ron

Bettini probably has an AWC/CP more than the 60 seconds I assumed for Pantani and Simoni, so is probably able to produce a relatively larger increase in power at shorter durations.