Should Evans be put down ?

existence said:

Worst post ever. Tactics were awful for who? For him? I don't think so. [censored] its early doors. That was the first real 'show and tell' session. Its natural for them all to be testy. Cadel has most of those guys all wrapped up with so much TTing to come (Contador the exception who looked seriously good might I add). I feel sorry for Klodi boy who had his chain pulled.

If Cadel wins the tour it will be out of sheer bloody minded consistency (and a healthy dose of [censored] ups by others...rogers....vino....etc etc). Thats just his game. If everyone would stop wanking their cocks whilst watching the tour (hoping for people to do unbelievable things outside their physical capacity) the world would be a better place.

lol good post exy

My take on the climb last night was they where all working as a good group at the start when they left the Astana group, it wasn't until Morue (sp?) started attacking that every body else started sitting on. I think they have every right to sit on once some body starts attacking a group like that. Having said that i was hoping Cadel would just go alone, so what if the others just sit on, put time into the other guys down the road and worry about those around you later in the tour. Look at the way chicken man rode, he didn't care who was on his wheel he just rode. Well done to him i think he deserves the Yellow jersey for now at least.🙂

[quote="Bro Deal"]Looks like the aussies lost three riders today. Two to crashes, and one lost his balls--or maybe never had any to begin with.


I seem to recall the third rider crashing out in the first stage and still winning, but hey no balls!!

jsull14 said:

Dude, show some respect for Lim. Cadel did nothing today. Moreau's not even a main contender so I don't buy that Cadel was on the limit the whole time. At least Contador and Mayo were mixing it up. But Valverde is the real punk of the day for the sprint at the end.

All these people pushing Evans as a top Tour contender and now complaining when he doesn't attack/push the tempo in a break of favourites. Does anyone consider that he might really have been on his limit? This is Evans at his best and we have no prior evidence to suggest he can do otherwise. He shouldn't be put down, it's people's heightened expectations of him that need to be taken to the vet for a lethal injection.

jsull14 said:

But Valverde is the real punk of the day for the sprint at the end.

[font=Arial]Moreau did all the work. And NO ONE was prepared to work with him for various reasons. Ands there were 7 or 8 riders with him. Evans because he a congenital wheel sucker.[/font]
[font=Arial][/font]
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[font=Arial]And then Valverde wins the sprint. Whats the problem. Its a race. Is there some rule about not sprinting?[/font]

leestevens said:

My take on the climb last night was they where all working as a good group at the start when they left the Astana group, it wasn't until Morue (sp?) started attacking that every body else started sitting on. I think they have every right to sit on once some body starts attacking a group like that. Having said that i was hoping Cadel would just go alone, so what if the others just sit on, put time into the other guys down the road and worry about those around you later in the tour. Look at the way chicken man rode, he didn't care who was on his wheel he just rode. Well done to him i think he deserves the Yellow jersey for now at least.🙂

It was Moreau who formed the group in the first place by attacking and splitting the main group. He kept trying to shake them off with a series of attacks after but clearly he doesn't have the explosive acceleration to drop specialist climbers of the likes that were with him. So, I don't expect him to be allowed just ride off the front.

It wasn't just that nobody worked with Moreau, it's that they were playing silly buggers with each other all the way up the climb. Weaving all over the road, slowing down, looking over their shoulders. You'd think it was the winning group in a classic with a couple of hundred metres to go. They all had something to gain by getting their heads down and working. They couldn't win the stage but they could have really nailed Vino and Klodi. Moreau was right to berate them for it. That could be Vino's only bad day of the Tour and they didn't capitalise.

Tonto has just about nailed it. Pretty well everyone in the Moreau group rode dumb. None of them were either physically capable of riding away from the others or mentally willing to give it a crack. In these circumstances the best that any of them could hope to achieve was the potential elimination of some of the serious contenders who had been dropped from this group. Sunday was not a decisive, race winning stage but if they had effectively ridden as a combine instead of fannying about, they could have pretty well doomed the hopes of a number of serious players who may yet come back to bite them.

Cadel Evans and Robbie mcewen dont have the balls??? What a joke! Robbie McEwen has proved he is tough after that stage win in the first week...maybe he just isn't a very good climber :eek: ???

Cadel LOOKED to be riding negatively but maybe he was just on the limit so we can hardly pass judgement on his tactics. Also whats with the talk on Hinault, Merckx, armstrong etc? If you're trying to say Cadel Evans should ride more like those guys then I suspect you need mental help, There are little to no comparisons between a rider like merckx and evans lol :p . If Cadel is to win the yellow jersey it will be through consistency in the hills and solid time trialling skills. Also Cadel promised before the tour this year that "if he has the legs he will attack"...maybe he just didn't have the legs.

A bike race is a bike race there is no policy on how you should win the race...There definitely isn't a requirement to look stylish or classy or entertain the viewing audience. They just get payed to ride there bikes and win races.

As far as Valverde sprinting at the finish I say good on him! after being dropped it takes courage and mental smarts to still be aware that there is a time bonus available.

Astana showed questionable tactics IMO do they want to win the tour or do they want a kazakh to win the tour??? Andreas Kloden is the best time triallist out of the top GC contenders and was clearly stronger than vinokourov in the hills aswell. Astana may prove me wrong if Vino comes good in the later stages, Infact it would not surprise me at all. Remember when he won the vuelta 06? He was a fair way down after the first hilly stages there aswell.

Interesting situations all over the place

dm69 said:

Cadel Evans and Robbie mcewen dont have the balls??? What a joke! Robbie McEwen has proved he is tough after that stage win in the first week...maybe he just isn't a very good climber :eek: ???

Cadel LOOKED to be riding negatively but maybe he was just on the limit so we can hardly pass judgement on his tactics. Also whats with the talk on Hinault, Merckx, armstrong etc? If you're trying to say Cadel Evans should ride more like those guys then I suspect you need mental help, There are little to no comparisons between a rider like merckx and evans lol :p . If Cadel is to win the yellow jersey it will be through consistency in the hills and solid time trialling skills. Also Cadel promised before the tour this year that "if he has the legs he will attack"...maybe he just didn't have the legs.

A bike race is a bike race there is no policy on how you should win the race...There definitely isn't a requirement to look stylish or classy or entertain the viewing audience. They just get payed to ride there bikes and win races.

As far as Valverde sprinting at the finish I say good on him! after being dropped it takes courage and mental smarts to still be aware that there is a time bonus available.

Astana showed questionable tactics IMO do they want to win the tour or do they want a kazakh to win the tour??? Andreas Kloden is the best time triallist out of the top GC contenders and was clearly stronger than vinokourov in the hills aswell. Astana may prove me wrong if Vino comes good in the later stages, Infact it would not surprise me at all. Remember when he won the vuelta 06? He was a fair way down after the first hilly stages there aswell.

Interesting situations all over the place

Worth remembering that in 2004, Armstrong led into the wind for about 8km total (excluding TTs).

patch70 said:

Worth remembering that in 2004, Armstrong led into the wind for about 8km total (excluding TTs).

The whole group rode like [censored] for the mid to final part of the climb. They needed to work together to put time into Sastre, Menchov Levi et al. Moreau was one of the worst culprits, every time one of the riders did come through he attacked as soon as he had had his spell. Who in their right mind would pull through knowing that he was going to hit them again after they finish their pull. How damn good was Rasmussen!

The Double Zero said:

Moreau was one of the worst culprits, every time one of the riders did come through he attacked as soon as he had had his spell. Who in their right mind would pull through knowing that he was going to hit them again after they finish their pull.

Good point.

dm69 said:

Cadel Evans and Robbie mcewen dont have the balls??? What a joke!
Cadel LOOKED to be riding negatively but maybe he was just on the limit so we can hardly pass judgement on his tactics. Also whats with the talk on Hinault, Merckx, armstrong etc? If you're trying to say Cadel Evans should ride more like those guys then I suspect you need mental help, There are little to no comparisons between a rider like merckx and evans lol :p . If Cadel is to win the yellow jersey it will be through consistency in the hills and solid time trialling skills. Also Cadel promised before the tour this year that "if he has the legs he will attack"...maybe he just didn't have the legs.

A bike race is a bike race there is no policy on how you should win the race...There definitely isn't a requirement to look stylish or classy or entertain the viewing audience. They just get payed to ride there bikes and win races.

As far as Valverde sprinting at the finish I say good on him! after being dropped it takes courage and mental smarts to still be aware that there is a time bonus available.

Interesting situations all over the place

Tool. If Le Chien didn't ride on the front of the group then they would have been caught by Vino and Kloden straight away.... what would have it taken for Evans to do 5 x 30 seconds turns on the front ? Do you think that would of killed him to the point of being dropped ? What if Shleck, Valverde and Mayo or did the same as Moreau ? That’s 12+ minutes of riding that they could have put the screws into Vino............ Evans always sits on wheels so he can't always be on the limit ! There is no honor in the way he rode and Moreau has more panache in his right leg than Evans has in his entire body....... that’s the French thou.... they like to win and win in style !

Greg Lemond won a Tour in 89, only hit the wind in the TT's and he's a farkin hero.

:p

classic1 said:

Greg Lemond won a Tour in 89, only hit the wind in the TT's and he's a farkin hero.

:p

What would be funny would be to see what happens if Cadel managed to get the Yellow jersey. How would Predictor Lotto be able to ride on the front of the peloton, It would have to be just Cadel controlling the race by himself.😄

The Double Zero said:

What would be funny would be to see what happens if Cadel managed to get the Yellow jersey. How would Predictor Lotto be able to ride on the front of the peloton, It would have to be just Cadel controlling the race by himself.😄

He'll have to ride like Lemond. Lemond had the best teammates in the world in 89. Not his ADR team. He had Fignon, Delgado, Lejaretta, Theunisse and the rest of the PDM team do all his chasing for him.😉

whiteboytrash said:

that’s the French thou.... they like to win and win in style !

Yeah ...... You must be really old to remember when the French were winning....

Evans is the most frustrating riders to watch, not only as an Aussie, but as a Cycling fan. He says he can win the Tour but he doesn't attack (oh, I was on my limit), he won't help anyone and he has a [censored] team. I'm tried of these Australians who think he can win the tour (i am an aussie too), and believe the his BS about being on the limit. Cadel, shut up! If your going to follow wheels and then have the same excuse every time go race BY YOURSELF.

But Cadels style of racing is very good if a rider wanted to place top 10, folllowing wheels, not attacking, conserving energy. My opinion, go for the Polka-Dot! While he still has the chance.

Why did it have to be Stuey?

The Double Zero said:

...Moreau was one of the worst culprits, every time one of the riders did come through he attacked as soon as he had had his spell. Who in their right mind would pull through knowing that he was going to hit them again after they finish their pull. How damn good was Rasmussen!

this makes absolutely no sense.. who cares about taking 2nd in the stage? there's a GC up for grabs.. so what if Moreau took 2nd in the stage, he deserved it i guess by initiating the break and by doing most of the work.. but who remembers 2nd place in a stage.. the only thing anyone else in that group should have had on their minds was a) completely icing Astana's chances at GC and severly puting time into the Disco riders who managed to make it up to the front group from all the fooling around.. i was just watching my tv in disbelief that these guys could ride so stupidly... Valverde i think is the worst because a) he marked almost all of Moreau's attacks, so no way he was hurting and b) because he's severly TT challenged... time was the only thing that should have been on anyone's mind in that group... the stage win was up the road.. so who the hell cares about that? and so what if they got dropped what they lose 10 seconds maybe... they guys behind can take minutes out of them in a TT.. they rode really dumb!

doctorSpoc said:

this makes absolutely no sense.. who cares about taking 2nd in the stage? there's a GC up for grabs.. so what if Moreau took 2nd in the stage, he deserved it i guess by initiating the break and by doing most of the work.. but who remembers 2nd place in a stage.. the only thing anyone else in that group should have had on their minds was a) completely icing Astana's chances at GC and severly puting time into the Disco riders who managed to make it up to the front group from all the fooling around.. i was just watching my tv in disbelief that these guys could ride so stupidly... Valverde i think is the worst because a) he marked almost all of Moreau's attacks, so no way he was hurting and b) because he's severly TT challenged... time was the only thing that should have been on anyone's mind in that group... the stage win was up the road.. so who the hell cares about that? and so what if they got dropped what they lose 10 seconds maybe... they guys behind can take minutes out of them in a TT.. they rode really dumb!

I agree with post with one footnote---Festina's (AG2r) Moreau, age 36 was clearly (best blood chemistry) the strongest rider in that group---and even Valverde was dropped near the end. Valverde only got back because Moreau softpedalled. Naturally, anytime you permit a sprinter back on with 500 meters to go---he will attack, time bonuses or not.

TV demands a sprint. Only the first place rider stands on the podium in TV racing.

whiteboytrash said:

Tool. If Le Chien didn't ride on the front of the group then they would have been caught by Vino and Kloden straight away.... what would have it taken for Evans to do 5 x 30 seconds turns on the front ? Do you think that would of killed him to the point of being dropped ? What if Shleck, Valverde and Mayo or did the same as Moreau ? That’s 12+ minutes of riding that they could have put the screws into Vino............ Evans always sits on wheels so he can't always be on the limit ! There is no honor in the way he rode and Moreau has more panache in his right leg than Evans has in his entire body....... that’s the French thou.... they like to win and win in style !

[font=Times New Roman]A few thoughts…[/font]

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[font=Times New Roman]Mayo is just as clued about the Tour as ever. He knows he can’t win the whole damn thing, and Rasmussen is clearly a better climber than he is. So he’s content at taking cheap pot shots with time bonuses here and there. Eventually, those add up and he gets a high GC placing. He did the same thing to Ullrich after he sat on Jan’s wheel up to Luz Ardiden to steal a 20 second time bonus. [/font]

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[font=Times New Roman]Evans and Valverde are equally unimpressive. Talk about stepping over a dollar to pick up a dime. If those two had at least taken 20… (forget 30) seconds up front to help Moreau, (just keep rotating in and pull) they would have really put the screws to Vinokourov. Plus!... they would have put more time into Contador after he had a mechanical. Right now Contador is the real danger man in that group. Arroyo is another tool. He should have sat up or been ordered to sit up and wait for Valverde instead of blow himself up trying to hang on to Rasmussen. Had he done that, he and Valverde could have gone to town and tag-teamed Moreau. DUH!!! Come on Caisse d’Epargne! Who’s the friggin leader on that team???[/font]

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[font=Times New Roman]Schleck and Kascheckin did exactly what they were supposed to do. Cover the attack by Moreau and NOT WORK to help Vinokourov who desperately needs to get back into this race and Sastre who needs to start showing his face before it’s too late. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Contador is clearly the strongest rider on Discovery. Bruyneel should unleash him because neither Leipheimer nor Popovych have the legs to challenge for the overall. Maybe Levi can ride back into contention by riding 2 strong TT’s and clawing some time back in the Pyrenees. It is unlikely that he will get the same kind of support from Team Discovery that Lance got. [/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]The team that got things right yesterday was Rabobank. Rasmussen is in the driver’s seat right now, and everyone is expecting hime to falter in the TT’s. However, he will surely defend the yellow by going on the offensive again in the upcoming mountain stages and gain more time. To counter that, everyone else has to attack him. (by the looks of things not everyone is brave enough to do so) When they do attack, they will surely drag along Menchov who can do ok in the TT’s and is pretty solid on the climbs if he can avoid having a blow up like last year. He will surely be ready to pounce should Rasmussen falter.[/font]