36ers Wide or narrow hubs

onebyone said:

Now all 36"ers have wider hubs, the UDC 36" Machine, Nimbus and Dave
Stockton wheels, were are you Dave?
NOW, I still feel that I could ride uphills and long rides better on
the old Coker with a narrow hub due to less Q factor and more energy
being delivered to going forward not sideways.

So nothing stops you from having narrow hub 🙂 (see below...)

Quoted message said:

SO, if I have an Aifoil rim built on a KH ISIS hub, I reckon it would
overcome the weakness of the Coker wheel and deliver better power.
Is the strength of the wide hub only required for 36" Muniing, jumping
or trials? For touring, do we need that much strength?

Well, in fact I'm quite new to the 36" world, but that's what I think:
Wide hubs are not used in 36ers due to their strength, but just
because
36" wheel is darn big 🙂 and darn big wheels built on narrow hubs
are quite flexible sideways.
(BrianMacKenzie had a nice movie that showed how spectacular such flex
can be 🙂
So wide hubs are used to make wheels more rigid especially when
hopping,
riding over stuff (logs, curbs, etc) and turning.

Now, when some of new 36" rims have 48 spokes like the new Coker and
the new Qu-ax, there is much less need for wide hubs I suppose.

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I am not urguing or wondering about that wider hubs are stonger or
stiffer, I am sure they are (BTW one of my wide hubs deflects big time
on an idle freemount).
If the main aim is to go forward like touring, is the extra strength
needed as a trade off of energy...to go forward. Forget jumping,
muniing etc.

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I guess we have to wait. Coker likes making us wait

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Hi Mal,

I've used a std hub for years with no problems associated with flexing
at all. Plenty of riders I would consider 'experts' prefer to use the
narrow hubs.

Yes, a wide hub in theory has less flex, although I have seen many of
these wide hubbed wheels wobbling from side to side (that's even with
Hunter frames). I guess a lot of it would depend on wheelbuild and how
heavy you are, how you ride etc. I've done quite a few mountainbike
races on my Coker (12/24hr races; The 106km Hidden Vale Epic in
Brisbane, Karapoti, Rainbow Rage), so the std UDC hub is definitely
strong enough for off-road use.

The KH ISIS or Nimbus ISIS should make quite a nice Coker hub....you
can now get most of the useful crank lengths (unless you're an 89mm
speed demon). Also, if you are worried about Q factor then use
straight cranks like the Quax ones.

That said, I'm sure the wide hubs are adequate for touring. If I was
in the market for a off-the-shelf Coker right now, I would probably
have a look at the Nimbuses (Nimbii?).

Ken

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Ah, and one more thing:

I'm wondering about the influence of wider vs narrow hub on the knee
pain
and knee overload...

Has anybody had any thoughts about that?

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I too have several years of heavy riding (I'm relatively heavy too @ 200
lbs.) on an old stock Coker with NO problems with the narrow hub. I
ride in the city mostly and have made countless fast 90 degree turns to
avoid traffic and I ride pretty aggressively (less so, since I switched
to 102 cranks this spring). I drop off curbs routinely but that's the
extent to which I do 'drops'.
I like how my feet feel close together laterally. It's not awkward to
pinch my knees together in front of the tire for aerodynamic effect and
efficiency.
I'm dubious about these EXTRA SUPER EXTRA wide hubs for 36er roadies.

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With the rims that are manufactured these days (Airfoil, Nimbus, Qu-ax
and Coker) you don't need an extra wide hub. To do so would be
overkill. My first wheel was a airfoil rim with a 127mm Nimbus hub and
I really loved it untill I switched to the narrow Qu-ax wheelset and
found that heaven. I changed back to airfoil once but found it horrible
to ride because it was so wide. I don't think you really need an ISIS
hub even though Qu-ax now has awesome lightweight cranks with no
Q-factor. Does anyone know the weight of a cotterless hub VS an ISIS
splined hub? To see if it's worth going to ISIS just for weight.

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The ergonomics with a wide hub vs. a standard hub will depend on the
rider. If you have wider hips and longer legs you'll adjust to the
wide hub more easily. If you have shorter legs and narrower hips then
the standard hub may be more appropriate from an ergonomic standpoint.

I'm able to ride a wide hub with minimal side to side wobble or "S"
style tire track. I also have long legs. But even for me, from a
purely ergonomic standpoint a narrow hub would be better in that my
legs would be more in line with my hips. But I'm able to adjust and it
hasn't bothered me at all.

With all other things being equal, a wide hub will also give you a
stronger wheel with less lateral flex of the rim. That can be
important if you plan to use a brake. Proper spoke tension is also
important if you want to avoid broken spokes.

The wheel build will also affect the strength and stiffness of the
wheel. It is easier to get a stronger wheel build with the wider hub.
The wheel build is already very fussy with a Coker size wheel.

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john_childs said:

The ergonomics with a wide hub vs. a standard hub will depend on the
rider. If you have wider hips and longer legs you'll adjust to the
wide hub more easily. If you have shorter legs and narrower hips then
the standard hub may be more appropriate from an ergonomic standpoint.

I'm able to ride a wide hub with minimal side to side wobble or "S"
style tire track. I also have long legs. But even for me, from a
purely ergonomic standpoint a narrow hub would be better in that my
legs would be more in line with my hips. But I'm able to adjust and it
hasn't bothered me at all.

With all other things being equal, a wide hub will also give you a
stronger wheel with less lateral flex of the rim. That can be
important if you plan to use a brake. Proper spoke tension is also
important if you want to avoid broken spokes.

The wheel build will also affect the strength and stiffness of the
wheel. It is easier to get a stronger wheel build with the wider hub.
The wheel build is already very fussy with a Coker size wheel.

so for someone like me who is 194cm (6"4) and 125kg (i think 275 lbs) a
wider hub would be ideal?

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mr_charm said:

so for someone like me who is 194cm (6"4) and 125kg (i think 275 lbs) a
wider hub would be ideal?

Ideal would be a magical wheel that is narrow yet stiff and strong.
But you must compromise the ideal with practicalities.

A taller person, and especially one who is heavier, would do better
with a wider hub than a shorter person. Given your height and weight
I'd go for the extra wide hub.

Something that isn't often noted in the wide hub vs. narrow hub debate
is the height of the rider making observations on what they prefer.

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There are not simply two hub sizes (wide and narrow).

The original cokers sold with Suze hubs which had 61mm flange to flange
spacing. These hubs, combined with the flimsey steel rim, made for a
pretty weak and flexy wheel.

Current UDC Wide hubs (which, ironically, are what I think you guys are
calling "narrow"😉 have a 71mm ftf width. These hubs combined with an
aluminum rim make a pretty decent wheel. I've used similar wider hubs
with 36ers (semcycle pro, schwinn), which are both significantly wider
than the original Suzue (but narrower than the EXTRA wide hub)

I think the UDC EXTRA Wide hubs, which are standard for 36ers now, are
a bit of overkill. They have a 100mm ftf width, and they make for a
very strong wheel, that's a little bit more wobbly. This, mind, you,
can be exaggerated by cranks with a high Q factor. In fact, I would say
a wide hub with straight cranks, probably performs similarly to a
narrower hub with high Q cranks.

All this being said, I think wide hubs are fine, and only really affect
your speed if you're a fast rider. I still go plenty fast with an Extra
wide hub, but I think I prefer the slightly narrower hubs.

It should be noted that the KH moment (and I think other splined hubs)
use 42mm OD bearings, and might not be compatible with current Hunter
frames, and other machined bearing-holder frames which were made for
40mm OD bearings.

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Quoted message said:

<> Unicycle for (reducing the) Buddha <><

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I'm a small person (120 lbs and going on 21 years old next year) and I
find the standard thin coker hub not very much different in my short
experience with it than the UDC holy [censored] super jesus god wide hub. I
like the wide pedal spacing and even have 15mm of Q on my cranks to
space it out a bit further. I've found that the narrow hub accelerates
faster going downhill because of less wind resistance but don't really
have a complaint either way. I rode my super holy [censored] wide hub 500
miles in 7 days and had zero knee pain....my ankles were a mess after
that but that is way more likely due to seat height and 110mm cranks I
had used all week. Now that I'm on a shorter post and longer cranks I
feel like I Could go all day without problems.

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Quoted message said:

Originally Posted by johnfoss
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john_childs said:

everything i said

I agree. I find that when riding perfectly upright I keep to the
outside of the pedals but when going into the wind and I am in a more
prone bent forward position I keep my feet as close to the cranks as
possible

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Quoted message said:

Originally Posted by johnfoss
Yes, being old makes you stupid.

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I would love to see this hub on a 36er: http://tinyurl.com/39sdav maybe
it will be a project for my airfoil uni 🙄

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Thanks for the input guys. Why I was thinking KH or an ISIS hub is
because I bought some KH Moments and love the quality. Also with square
taper cranks I am forever re-tightening them.
I will look into bearings that have the same ID and 40mm OD.

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john_childs said:

On a unicycle you are sitting upright. The hips are not rolled
forward. The body position is upright like you're walking and the hips
are square under you like they are when you're walking.

Maybe that's why I differ from all the wide hubbed unicyclists. My
body position is most definitely not upright!

Lowering your body position helps spread the weight onto your arms and
lowers your centre of gravity making you more stable. I see many
people riding bolt upright and it makes me cringe....surely it's got to
hurt putting all your weight on your crotch? You wouldn't be very
efficient riding a bike in the upright position either....

Ken

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+ to that Ken!

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