My first Masters practice

Micheal Artindale said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Micheal Artindale wrote:
>> "mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>>> Robert W. McAdams wrote:
>>>> mwsmith wrote:
>>>>> Micheal Artindale wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email hidden]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Until today, I didnt realize just how good/bad I was.
>>>>> Reading the clock always cleared that up for me.
>>>> That depends on what he means by "how good/bad I was." If he's
>>>> talking about speed and endurance, then you're correct that that
>>>> should have been cleared up by looking at the clock and counting how
>>>> many lengths he swam, and comparing his performance to world record
>>>> times. But if he's talking about technique, that's the sort of thing
>>>> people frequently don't realize until they change it.
>>> I can't imagine why I would make a technique change that didn't
>>> improve my speed. Apparently Mich[ae]l has been enjoying swimming
>>> without speed and endurance, since he has neither but continues to
>>> enjoy swimming. In that case, technique isn't all that important,
>>> because the joy of swimming is the reason for swimming. Besides, he
>>> has shown a video here of himself swimming, and his technique is more
>>> than adequate. It might not have been Micheaeaael in the video,
>>> though, since the swimmer in the video was going faster than the three
>>> minutes per hundred meters he claims is best pace.
>> Those videos were of me swimming. They were unedited.
>>
>> In the last 1.5 years I have not done as much swimming as in the
>> previous year. I suspect that is part of what has slowed me down.
>>
>> If you remember, there are things that were mentioned to fix.
>>
>> Another thing, and perrish the thought, You may not be the swim god you
>> make yourself out to be. My swimming in the videos could have been bad,
>> yet you could not tell because of your own inabilities.
> Your swimming wasn't bad. I can't judge your stroke against mine, since
> I can't see mine. I judge your stroke against the other swimmers I have
> seen. There have been many.
>
>> All I know is that a small thing last night made a world of difference.
> From what time before to what time after?
From when I swam my first lap, to when I did my second lap.

So there was no difference.

The coach stopped me after my first lap. Corrected my stroke, then the
second lap, I did what he said, and moved faster with less effort.

That's measurable. Without the change, what was your time for one lap?
With the change, what was your time for one lap? If you don't know, how
do you know you were going faster?

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale wrote:
snip <

Quoted message said:

The coach stopped me after my first lap. Corrected my stroke, then the
second lap, I did what he said, and moved faster with less effort.

That's measurable. Without the change, what was your time for one lap?
With the change, what was your time for one lap? If you don't know, how do
you know you were going faster?

Give the guy a break. He may have bullshitted in the past but at least he's
having a real go now at entering the real world of swimming. We all had to
start somewhere, and however good we are, there's always someone better.
Stick at it Mike, listen to your coach, make friends in the pool and enjoy
your swimming.

Thank you, Duncan.

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine why I would make a technique change that didn't improve my
speed.

Martin

I can imagine it. I have made technique changes to help my shoulder
impingement and get rid of the rotator cuff pain.

Pat in TX

Indeed.

Immediate speed improvement is only one factor. For swimmers who swim to
race, oftentime stroke technique changes do not show this at first; indeed
they may even in the end reduce speed yet be a racing advantage. For those
who swim to complete, or for enjoyment, or for health, or for a varaiety of
other reasons the same may well be true.

Smith's view is too narrow and simplistic to be used as a guide.

Duncan Heenan said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale wrote:
snip <

Quoted message said:

The coach stopped me after my first lap. Corrected my stroke, then the
second lap, I did what he said, and moved faster with less effort.

That's measurable. Without the change, what was your time for one lap?
With the change, what was your time for one lap? If you don't know, how do
you know you were going faster?

Give the guy a break. He may have bullshitted in the past but at least he's
having a real go now at entering the real world of swimming. We all had to
start somewhere, and however good we are, there's always someone better.
Stick at it Mike, listen to your coach, make friends in the pool and enjoy
your swimming.

A technique change that I would suggest to Micheal Artindale is to put
Smith in his killfile.

_ said:

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine why I would make a technique change that didn't improve my
speed.

Martin

I can imagine it. I have made technique changes to help my shoulder
impingement and get rid of the rotator cuff pain.

Pat in TX

Indeed.

Immediate speed improvement is only one factor. For swimmers who swim to
race, oftentime stroke technique changes do not show this at first; indeed
they may even in the end reduce speed yet be a racing advantage. For those
who swim to complete, or for enjoyment, or for health, or for a varaiety of
other reasons the same may well be true.

Smith's view is too narrow and simplistic to be used as a guide.

I meant that all those changes will eventually mean improved speed. If
your stroke is causing you pain, it is also slowing you down. If you
eliminate the flaw that causes pain, you will also increase speed, or,
at least the potential for increased speed. Once again, I apologize for
not making that clear.

Quoted message said:

A technique change that I would suggest to Micheal Artindale is to put
Smith in his killfile.

Oh, he's not so bad. He's just got Micheal-fatigue from all of the zigging
and zagging. Micheal has been remarkably consistent except for joining the
Canadian Navy. I give him a lot of credit for that.

Pat in TX

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A technique change that I would suggest to Micheal Artindale is to put
Smith in his killfile.

Oh, he's not so bad. He's just got Micheal-fatigue from all of the zigging
and zagging. Micheal has been remarkably consistent except for joining the
Canadian Navy. I give him a lot of credit for that.

Pat in TX

I am confused... how am I consistent? Do you mean swimming?

Also, as smith pointed out, he has numerous aliases, so that makes it a
bitmore difficult. Besides, he reminds me of the fat people on talk shows
who cannot figure out how they got fat, yet have half a pound of bacon every
day for breakfast.

Micheal

"Pat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, he's not so bad. He's just got Micheal-fatigue from all of the
zigging and zagging. Micheal has been remarkably consistent except for
joining the Canadian Navy. I give him a lot of credit for that.

Pat in TX

I am confused... how am I consistent? Do you mean swimming?

Also, as smith pointed out, he has numerous aliases, so that makes it a
bitmore difficult. Besides, he reminds me of the fat people on talk shows
who cannot figure out how they got fat, yet have half a pound of bacon
every day for breakfast.

Micheal

When I say you are consistent, I meant consistent in your confusing
posting history. In older posts, you say you were a really good swimmer,
then you say you can't swim well, and then you say you will swim across a
lake (which would take a really good swimmer after all---but you don't do
it, you just 'say' you'll do such things). Martin, at least, doesn't vary
with his history of swimming and his abilities. You, on the other hand,
are all over the map with your swimming abilities, techniques, speeds,
distances, and plans. It just about takes a scorecard to keep up with your
plans/dreams/ambitions because they keep changing all of the time. The
only thing that doesn't change---ah, here's consistancy---is your
atrocious spelling.

I am not a horrible swimmer, but, I am no expert. I don't believe I ever
said I was.

Everything is relitive to everything. If where you swim, you are better than
anyone who swims at the same time, and no one has corrected your strokes,
then you would assume that you were a good swimmer.

The 4 videos that I have, no one made any major suggestions. If you want to
prove hoe much a small difference a change in stroke can do, change one
thing about one stroke for one workout. If we were in Vegas, I would put my
money down that you would not be able to do the same distance. I didnt even
say it was bad. I said that a small change made a big difference. Did you
know, on race cars, one scratch in their paint can slow them down? Small
thing right? big difference.

I did the 4km swim. It did take 2hrs 45mins.

I did attempt the 8km swim, but stopped because of darkness. Hopefully next
year I will get back to the same lake. If so, I will start earlier. I know
it can be done, one of my father's friends whom now is close to 60 did it
when he was in his teens, in about 7hrs. I stoped after about 5 hrs, and
about 2/3 complete.

My spelling is due to many things. 1) I dont use spell checker on
newsgroups, email, I might. 2) I write these qickly, and want them to get
out quickly. 3) laziness.....

Quoted message said:

As for the "aliases", I can understand that because sometimes a person has
to change Internet providers and their old handle is taken by someone
already on the new Internet provider. I am currently considering changing
my account because I got home from a vacation the other day and had 621
spams on my account. So, that would mean choosing a new name for the new
account. It isn't really an "alias" as if I am a criminal, though, nor is
it an effort to confuse people or deceive them. It's just an inconvenience
for me because of the spammers.

His list had 12 names, and those are the ones he told us of. and that is
within a time frame of about 5 years, as I have seen them all. Does he have
that bad of luck with ISP?

Quoted message said:

As for the fat people on talk shows, I have no idea to what you are
referring. None at all.

Be thankful.... They were over 500lbs. It was on those horrible talk
shows.... it was during the 90s.

Quoted message said:

I do think you did a remarkable thing in joining the Navy though. I wonder
if someone older gave you some fatherly advice on that decision. It was a
good, solid decision with no planning and then withdrawing, etc. Kind of
out of character from your posts in the past. I'll bet you are proud of
yourself for making the committment and following through.

Its a mix of feelings for me. It was all my thought. My family was surprised
I would even concider it. It is not like me, different mindset. My father
and his father joined. In fact, my grandfather was in WW2 as a paratrooper.
He jumped into Germany, Belguim, France and Holland.

Everything I have done, from figureing out on my own how to swim, to the 4km
swim, to attempthing the 8km swim is making a commitment. I wanted to swim
the 4km when i woas a child, yet untill I was in my teens, I could not swim
one length. I have never had formal lessons. My high school swim team had no
formal coach. Our coach was a student who had swam with the team for a few
years. She had gotten the realy bad parts of my stroke fixed. I would do
head up front crawl, badly.

The only problem with my stroke, so far, was me not extending my arms before
entering the water.\

Kill file is annoying for me.

Micheal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, he's not so bad. He's just got Micheal-fatigue from all of the
zigging and zagging. Micheal has been remarkably consistent except for
joining the Canadian Navy. I give him a lot of credit for that.

Pat in TX

I am confused... how am I consistent? Do you mean swimming?

Also, as smith pointed out, he has numerous aliases, so that makes it a
bitmore difficult. Besides, he reminds me of the fat people on talk shows
who cannot figure out how they got fat, yet have half a pound of bacon
every day for breakfast.

Micheal

When I say you are consistent, I meant consistent in your confusing posting
history. In older posts, you say you were a really good swimmer, then you
say you can't swim well, and then you say you will swim across a lake (which
would take a really good swimmer after all---but you don't do it, you just
'say' you'll do such things). Martin, at least, doesn't vary with his
history of swimming and his abilities. You, on the other hand, are all over
the map with your swimming abilities, techniques, speeds, distances, and
plans. It just about takes a scorecard to keep up with your
plans/dreams/ambitions because they keep changing all of the time. The only
thing that doesn't change---ah, here's consistancy---is your atrocious
spelling.

As for the "aliases", I can understand that because sometimes a person has
to change Internet providers and their old handle is taken by someone
already on the new Internet provider. I am currently considering changing my
account because I got home from a vacation the other day and had 621 spams
on my account. So, that would mean choosing a new name for the new account.
It isn't really an "alias" as if I am a criminal, though, nor is it an
effort to confuse people or deceive them. It's just an inconvenience for me
because of the spammers.

As for the fat people on talk shows, I have no idea to what you are
referring. None at all.

I do think you did a remarkable thing in joining the Navy though. I wonder
if someone older gave you some fatherly advice on that decision. It was a
good, solid decision with no planning and then withdrawing, etc. Kind of out
of character from your posts in the past. I'll bet you are proud of yourself
for making the committment and following through.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

I am not a horrible swimmer, but, I am no expert. I don't believe I ever
said I was.

You said you had been a competitive swimmer for more than five years and
you said you were pretty good.

Quoted message said:

Everything is relitive to everything. If where you swim, you are better than
anyone who swims at the same time, and no one has corrected your strokes,
then you would assume that you were a good swimmer.

You were a competitive swimmer. You saw swimmers competing. Given your
typical pace of three minutes per 100m, most competitive swimmers, even
slouches like me, were a lot faster than you.

When you say everything is relative to everything, one thing that means,
when you say you have been a competitive swimmer for more than five
years and you are pretty good, is that you actually are an expert
swimmer, relative to most people.

Quoted message said:

The 4 videos that I have, no one made any major suggestions.

That's because, in the video I saw, there was nothing major wrong with
your stroke.

Quoted message said:

If you want to
prove hoe much a small difference a change in stroke can do, change one
thing about one stroke for one workout. If we were in Vegas, I would put my
money down that you would not be able to do the same distance. I didnt even
say it was bad. I said that a small change made a big difference. Did you
know, on race cars, one scratch in their paint can slow them down? Small
thing right? big difference.

It isn't a big difference. It makes a difference at high speed over a
long distance. You still haven't said what change you made in your
stroke. You said it made all the difference in the world, but you didn't
say what the difference was. You said it was a difference in speed and
efficiency, but you didn't quantify it, so how do you know there was any
difference in speed and efficiency? It is useful to other swimmers to
know these things about changes people make.

Quoted message said:

His list had 12 names, and those are the ones he told us of. and that is
within a time frame of about 5 years, as I have seen them all. Does he have
that bad of luck with ISP?

Half of them were variations of my own name, which, as I understand it,
actually are all my name. The other half were all names of characters
played by Groucho Marx in the movies, easily identifiable to anyone with
a culture deeper than the shallow end of a swimming pool. And there was
the Duke, who was the greatest swimmer of all time.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for the fat people on talk shows, I have no idea to what you are
referring. None at all.

Be thankful.... They were over 500lbs. It was on those horrible talk
shows.... it was during the 90s.

But they weren't fat relative to each other. Everything is relative to
everything, so as long as fat people hang out together, they're not fat.
The everything is relative to everything philosophy breaks down when the
race begins. Which is why I don't really like racing. I'm more of an
open water guy. The zen of the open water race.

Quoted message said:

Everything I have done, from figureing out on my own how to swim, to the 4km
swim, to attempthing the 8km swim is making a commitment. I wanted to swim
the 4km when i woas a child, yet untill I was in my teens, I could not swim
one length. I have never had formal lessons. My high school swim team had no
formal coach. Our coach was a student who had swam with the team for a few
years. She had gotten the realy bad parts of my stroke fixed. I would do
head up front crawl, badly.

Making a commitment to attempt an 8k swim isn't making a commitment. If
you make a commitment to attempt an 8k swim, then you succeed even if
you swim 100m. You trained some; you showed up on the day, and you even
swam part way, and then you stopped because it was late and the weather
went south. But you fulfilled your commitment to *attempt* to swim an
8k, so you were successful. That's kind of a 70's commitment. Be gentle
with yourself.

The truth is you weren't ready for the swim. You shouldn't have
attempted it until you were ready to complete it. Now, as a member of a
masters team, if you really want to do that swim, tell your coach what
you want to do and ask him to get you ready to do that swim.

Quoted message said:

The only problem with my stroke, so far, was me not extending my arms before
entering the water.\

Micheal Artindale said:

Quoted message said:

As for the "aliases", I can understand that because sometimes a person has
to change Internet providers and their old handle is taken by someone
already on the new Internet provider. I am currently considering changing
my account because I got home from a vacation the other day and had 621
spams on my account. So, that would mean choosing a new name for the new
account. It isn't really an "alias" as if I am a criminal, though, nor is
it an effort to confuse people or deceive them. It's just an inconvenience
for me because of the spammers.

His list had 12 names, and those are the ones he told us of. and that is
within a time frame of about 5 years, as I have seen them all. Does he have
that bad of luck with ISP?

It wasn't ISP trouble, it was that he had announced that he was "leaving
the newsgroup" and then tried to come back under a series of sock-puppets.
In seattle.politics there was a bit of a noise where he attempted to deny
this, but people saw through that.

_ said:

Micheal Artindale said:

Quoted message said:

As for the "aliases", I can understand that because sometimes a person has
to change Internet providers and their old handle is taken by someone
already on the new Internet provider. I am currently considering changing
my account because I got home from a vacation the other day and had 621
spams on my account. So, that would mean choosing a new name for the new
account. It isn't really an "alias" as if I am a criminal, though, nor is
it an effort to confuse people or deceive them. It's just an inconvenience
for me because of the spammers.

His list had 12 names, and those are the ones he told us of. and that is
within a time frame of about 5 years, as I have seen them all. Does he have
that bad of luck with ISP?

It wasn't ISP trouble, it was that he had announced that he was "leaving
the newsgroup" and then tried to come back under a series of sock-puppets.
In seattle.politics there was a bit of a noise where he attempted to deny
this, but people saw through that.

Now, you're lying, J. I announce I'm leaving, when I know I'm going to
be busy. That way, my legions of fans won't worry about me. I will be
making an announcement soon, because, as in the previous cases, I
suddenly have a lot of work on my plate. I don't have sock puppets, J,
but I *am* flattered you took the time to check out my work in
seattle.politics. Some of my best stuff. And my worst, unfortunately.
But, like Mich[ae]l says, "Everything is relative to everything," to
which I would add, "It may be better to remain silent and thought a
fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt, but you don't learn
anything that way."

For example, you would never have learned that no one but you and a tiny
number of people use the name "suicide turn" to refer to a backstroke
flip turn.

I never had to deny anything in seattle.politics except some quotes that
were wrongly attributed to me. And I don't have to *try* to come back. I
just come back when my work is done and I have the time again. Nor do I
use sock puppets. You'll find that my position remained consistent no
matter what name I wrote under, and, after all, it's what is written
that is important, not who writes it.

I have four computers. Well, only three now. Some are at home; some are
at work. There are different ISPs involved, different news readers,
different news servers. I always use a phoney email address on these
accounts to avoid getting spam, and most killfile functions work with
the email address by default, not the name.

And your reason for changing your name? You didn't say.

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

snip < And there was the Duke, who was the greatest swimmer of all time.

John Wayne the greatest swimmer of all time???

'The hell he was!'

Duncan Heenan said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

snip < And there was the Duke, who was the greatest swimmer of all time.

John Wayne the greatest swimmer of all time???

'The hell he was!'

The Duke. Duke Kahanamoku. Inducted into both the swimming and surfing
halls of fame.

Duncan Heenan said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

snip < And there was the Duke, who was the greatest swimmer of all time.

=
Only according to Smith, who is in error according to every other rating -
including the 1950 AP poll.

_ said:

Duncan Heenan said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

snip < And there was the Duke, who was the greatest swimmer of all time.

=
Only according to Smith, who is in error according to every other rating -
including the 1950 AP poll.

You're right. Harald "Whiteshoes" Johnson is the greatest swimmer of all
time. But the Duke is a close second.

Micheal Artindale said:

I was duty on board my ship on Tuesday, so, today was the first practice.

There is a 99% chance I will join.

Well? That was two weeks ago. You've been to several more sessions by
now. Or did your 99 to 1 longshot come through?

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

I was duty on board my ship on Tuesday, so, today was the first practice.

There is a 99% chance I will join.

Well? That was two weeks ago. You've been to several more sessions by now.
Or did your 99 to 1 longshot come through?

I joined.

Micheal

Micheal Artindale said:

"mwsmith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Micheal Artindale said:

I was duty on board my ship on Tuesday, so, today was the first practice.

There is a 99% chance I will join.

Well? That was two weeks ago. You've been to several more sessions by now.
Or did your 99 to 1 longshot come through?

I joined.

But are you improving?