DTSwiss 340 or Shimano 105 hubs q'n.

tk49 said:

Here's my q'n.

I have a bike project (not a racing bicycle, but a hybride one) that i'm working on.
Now i need wheels (it's going to be handbuilt one's).

I have on my racingbike DT 240's hubs (and the the hub tools to work on them).

Now i think that a shimano 105 hub would do nicely for intended use, but somehow i feel that DT 340 hubs would be far better technically speaking.

My gut feeling say's that the internal construction of the DT 340 is much better than the 105 hubs, but i can't tell for sure.

Or in other words how and when will the lesser hub (105 ?) qualitiy will be sticking it's neck out.

Is it lifespan, wear and tear etc.

I hope this makes a bit sense.

Freehub design is superior in the DT hub, ie, the rising star disc. Where the 105 hub is an old design 2 pawl system. 105 hubs are cup and ball but freehub is NOT serviceable. If the price is similar, I'd use the DT hubs.

Peter,

Ok as far as i understand it's the teeth construction that is superior to the 2 paws system from the 105 (funny DT just released a new hub 370 that has also a 2 pawl system :-)

The freehub issue i did not know (thanks).

But now in everyday practice.

What do i notice on the road from the superior teeth construction of the dt hub.

Is it in longerlife of the construction or where is the cutting edge

My preference is definately for the DT hub, but it is not clear to me where the advantage is compared to the compettition so to speak.

tk49 said:

Peter,

Ok as far as i understand it's the teeth construction that is superior to the 2 paws system from the 105 (funny DT just released a new hub 370 that has also a 2 pawl system :-)

The freehub issue i did not know (thanks).

But now in everyday practice.

What do i notice on the road from the superior teeth construction of the dt hub.

Is it in longerlife of the construction or where is the cutting edge

My preference is definately for the DT hub, but it is not clear to me where the advantage is compared to the compettition so to speak.

Few mid range hubs are still 2 pawl. I think the biggest advantage is long term serviceabilty, something I am a big fan of. shimano hubs are nicely made hubs and for those using shimano systems, our first choice for a wheelset but for a bit more $, we recommend DT hubs. I don't think you will 'feel' anything when either hub is in use.

For either hub, when new, open them up and add grease. Remove the seals on the DT and add grease to the 105 hubs. No hubs when new come with enough.

BUT I gotta mention, even 340 hubs are in DA price range, far more expensive than 105 or even ultegra hubs.

tk49 said:

Here's my q'n.

I have a bike project (not a racing bicycle, but a hybride one) that i'm working on.
Now i need wheels (it's going to be handbuilt one's).

I have on my racingbike DT 240's hubs (and the the hub tools to work on them).

Now i think that a shimano 105 hub would do nicely for intended use, but somehow i feel that DT 340 hubs would be far better technically speaking.

My gut feeling say's that the internal construction of the DT 340 is much better than the 105 hubs, but i can't tell for sure.

Or in other words how and when will the lesser hub (105 ?) qualitiy will be sticking it's neck out.

Is it lifespan, wear and tear etc.

I hope this makes a bit sense.

FWIW. Since I apparently have an insatiable need-to-know, I actually have a DT 340 rear (disc) hub, and without taking it apart, I will tell you the MOST obvious difference is the freehub BODY ...

I presume the freehub is steel (I don't have it handy, and I didn't bother putting a magnet on it when I first got it) because it looks like the steel freehub bodies you would find on a Shimano hub ... BUT, of course, the actual mechanism is probably the SAME star-ratchet that you will find in your 240 hubs (the hub shell is the "same" as a 240 hub shell ... and, more importantly, when you turn the freehub by hand, it SOUNDS-and-FEELS the same as the 240's ratchet mechanism) -- not much that can be changed in the execution/production of the star-ratchet, AFAIK, unless you want to compare it with the noiser, earlier generation star-ratchet mechanism or in the ONYX hubs (which I'm not familiar with, first hand).

So, by my reckoning, the (presumably) steel freehub on the 340 is where the weight difference is from when compared to the weight of a 240 hub ... the 340 rear disc hub is really porky (Is there a non-disc version? If there are, I would consider them for future ROAD wheel builds), but probably not as heavy as the Shimano disc hubs.

I dont' know if there is any difference between the bearings on the 340 & "regular" 240 hubs.

For people who don't have the tools, the Shimano hub would be more easily serviced because it uses loose bearings, and the cartridge bearings for the DT hub will need to be ordered OR you can send the wheel back to DT (about $100 ... some shops say they can replace the bearings [for less ... about half that amount], but I don't know what quality cartridges they use).

I would personally ride the 105's and avoid dt road hubs. I feel the machining process DT uses on there hubs weakens them, not to mention poor customer service. I have seen alot of flange cracking issues, and bearings issues. There was also issues with some of the Bontrager hubs DT made. I know ppl are going to think im nuts for bashing them but I cant be the only person to have noticed these types of issues, that or im just unlucky lol.

Peter@vecchios said:

Few mid range hubs are still 2 pawl. I think the biggest advantage is long term serviceabilty, something I am a big fan of. shimano hubs are nicely made hubs and for those using shimano systems, our first choice for a wheelset but for a bit more $, we recommend DT hubs. I don't think you will 'feel' anything when either hub is in use.

For either hub, when new, open them up and add grease. Remove the seals on the DT and add grease to the 105 hubs. No hubs when new come with enough.

BUT I gotta mention, even 340 hubs are in DA price range, far more expensive than 105 or even ultegra hubs.

Peter, could you explain why you believe that additional grease needs to be added to new DT and Shimano hubs? I ask because my opinion is that the manufacturer should pack the optimum amount of grease into each and every bearing in an expensive hub, and that the consumer should not need to disassemble it for service for a very long time.

Thanks everybody for you input.

For myself it is clear in what my choice will be allthough that is like many things very personal.

dhk2 said:

Peter, could you explain why you believe that additional grease needs to be added to new DT and Shimano hubs? I ask because my opinion is that the manufacturer should pack the optimum amount of grease into each and every bearing in an expensive hub, and that the consumer should not need to disassemble it for service for a very long time.

'Should' is a big word. IMO, no hub maker, DT, shimano, Campagnolo, use sufficient grease and as a matter of course, I open all hubs and add grease.

IEatRice4Dinner said:

I would personally ride the 105's and avoid dt road hubs. I feel the machining process DT uses on there hubs weakens them, not to mention poor customer service. I have seen alot of flange cracking issues, and bearings issues. There was also issues with some of the Bontrager hubs DT made. I know ppl are going to think im nuts for bashing them but I cant be the only person to have noticed these types of issues, that or im just unlucky lol.

Gotta ask what machining process weakens them how. 'a lot of flange cracking issues? How many and are you a retailer or wheelbuilder? How did you accumulate your groups of failed hubs? Just curious since I build a lot of these. Gotta wonder if it's 'poor customer service' for a hub of yours that is coloring your response. I deal with Paceline, a DT distributor and get fantastic customer service.

I can only say I have built many wheels with 240 hubs and have never had an issue with any of them.

Peter@vecchios said:

Gotta ask what machining process weakens them how. 'a lot of flange cracking issues? How many and are you a retailer or wheelbuilder? How did you accumulate your groups of failed hubs? Just curious since I build a lot of these. Gotta wonder if it's 'poor customer service' for a hub of yours that is coloring your response. I deal with Paceline, a DT distributor and get fantastic customer service.

I can only say I have built many wheels with 240 hubs and have never had an issue with any of them.

Agree we all need to be skeptical about reports of bad design and quality like this, since they can be found on everything from tires to frames. We're all human though, and one or two bad experiences with a product, or stories from a friend, leads us to a quick generalization. Personally, I haven't bought ProRace tires since I got a cut in a new one within the first 50 miles.

Also, some expensive products seem set themselves up to be bashed with over-the-top ad claims. When people find that their dream $900 wheelset isn't bulletproof, it's easy to understand why they would badmouth them.

I'm not a retailer or wheelbuilder, but I'm pretty confident that DT knows how to design and machine their hub flanges properly. Also believe that DT knows how much grease their bearings should have for longest life and lowest drag...but suppose you might disagree on that one 🙂

IEatRice4Dinner said:

I would personally ride the 105's and avoid dt road hubs. I feel the machining process DT uses on there hubs weakens them, not to mention poor customer service. I have seen alot of flange cracking issues, and bearings issues. There was also issues with some of the Bontrager hubs DT made. I know ppl are going to think im nuts for bashing them but I cant be the only person to have noticed these types of issues, that or im just unlucky lol.

FWIW. Just for the record, MY experience (which is apparently different from IEatRice4Dinner's) is that DT's customer service in the United States is excellent ... in fact, one of my contacts was because of an unexpected flange failure (the design appears to have been changed whereby there is [i]more[/i] material in the flange by making the actual flange a little larger in diameter) ... I received a new, replacement 240 rear (ROAD) hub.

I have had a similar, very positive experience with direct contact with Shimano's North American customer service when I contacted them directly through their Irvine office -- contact them, receive RMA, return part, receive replacement.

SRAM's North American customer service was unacceptable.

The experience of others may have differed with all three vendors, and I am only referrng to my experiences.

I have not tried to contact any of the companies through my LBS.

I have not needed to contact Campagnolo's customer service.

BTW. This is after the fact since you/tk49 have decided on your hub choice, but my fading recollection on the Shimano XT "750" rear disc hub was that it was in the boat anchor 425-to-450 gram range, and I presume the 340 is in the 340-to-400 gram range (sorry, I don't have the actual weight on either) ... so, not that much lighter; and yet, for some it probably is.

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Peter@vecchios said:

Gotta ask what machining process weakens them how. 'a lot of flange cracking issues? How many and are you a retailer or wheelbuilder? How did you accumulate your groups of failed hubs? Just curious since I build a lot of these. Gotta wonder if it's 'poor customer service' for a hub of yours that is coloring your response. I deal with Paceline, a DT distributor and get fantastic customer service.

I can only say I have built many wheels with 240 hubs and have never had an issue with any of them.

Im a mechanic and used to be a builder I personally have not broken any flanges, but on my personal 240 hubs the rear bearings were horrible after some 250 miles. The front radial specific hub Began to have alot of play, but the spokes were under the proper tension. Another mechanic i worked with had 2 rear flanges break on his 240's. Around the same time there were similar issues with some Bontrager hubs dt made. Not to mention bearing issues with customers hubs. This was all about 2 years ago. maybe there was a bad batch or something, anything could be possible.