Global Warming

Quoted message said:

I'm in stage 4, depression.

I'm sure you can find some drugs to help with that (At least
we're back on topic now).

On Apr 15, 9:30 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It's still there:

http://www.duggarfamily.com/recipes.html

They just changed it to say "Tater" instead of
"Tator Tots." How freakin' hard was it to spell
"Tater" correctly?! I'm pretty sure the "tator"
is a part of one of those make-an-electric-motor-
with-potatoes-copper-and-zinc Dr. Science kits.

Anyway, I like Tater Tots, but that casserole
makes me feel like the French have been unjustly
slurred for andouillette.

Thanks. I worried it had been lost to posterity. I can't stop reading
the recipe for layered ice cream cake, which includes the advice "eat
as desired."

Quoted message said:

On Apr 15, 9:30 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It's still there:

Quoted message said:

http://www.duggarfamily.com/recipes.html

Quoted message said:

They just changed it to say "Tater" instead of
"Tator Tots." How freakin' hard was it to spell
"Tater" correctly?! I'm pretty sure the "tator"
is a part of one of those make-an-electric-motor-
with-potatoes-copper-and-zinc Dr. Science kits.

err, Stator Tots. How to make a generator hub out
of Yukon Gold potatoes, I think.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, I like Tater Tots, but that casserole
makes me feel like the French have been unjustly
slurred for andouillette.

Thanks. I worried it had been lost to posterity. I can't stop reading
the recipe for layered ice cream cake, which includes the advice "eat
as desired."

What if not desired? You have to respect a cuisine
that can render even ice cream cake unappetizing.
Even cultures with trashy cooking generally manage
to make decent dessert.
Possibly the only things on that page that sound
like food are the baked things: like cookies, brownies
and banana bread, perhaps because they use real
ingredients rather than premade stuff.

The first time I looked at that page, I didn't
realize that all their kids had names beginning
with "J" ("Jinger"?) And it took them 17 to get
to Jennifer.

Ben

Donald Munro said:

Quoted message said:

Mega-nerds use HP calculators because they (we) like RPN. Actually,
Postscript, as in the printer language, is also RPN.

As is Forth, which is why Yoda in Forth programs.

Shouldn't it be: Forth Yoda programs in?

My thesis advisor had a bumper sticker (in his
office! He had too much sense to put it on his
car) that read:

/\/\
FORTH \ / IF
\/
HONK THEN

He used to program stuff in Forth in part because
you could get space-qualified microprocessors that
had Forth onboard, since it only takes about 600 bytes
to code a Forth interpreter.

I briefly used an object oriented Forth for the
original Macintosh (called "Neon"😉. That was weird.

Ben

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think changing weather patterns (like
more strong flooding in various places) will be a
big problem well before actual sea level rise is,
but this is just a guess on my part.

Just a guess; really? I thought that even here in Holland, water from
the hinterland was established as the main threat to flooding, more so
than the sea.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

On Apr 15, 9:30 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It's still there:

http://www.duggarfamily.com/recipes.html

They just changed it to say "Tater" instead of
"Tator Tots." How freakin' hard was it to spell
"Tater" correctly?! I'm pretty sure the "tator"
is a part of one of those make-an-electric-motor-
with-potatoes-copper-and-zinc Dr. Science kits.

Anyway, I like Tater Tots, but that casserole
makes me feel like the French have been unjustly
slurred for andouillette.

Thanks. I worried it had been lost to posterity. I can't stop reading
the recipe for layered ice cream cake, which includes the advice "eat
as desired."

Add a layer of vodka and they'd really have something!

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll put my evil-brain cards on the table: I have been to several places
in the world that are already under water.

Amsterdam and Richmond, BC, are doing okay.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

To put it another way, I think we have a way better chance of making
Bangladesh rich than we do of changing the weather 100 years from now.
And I'm virtually certain the fiscal and social returns will be better.

Quoted message said:

There's a lot of coastline in the world. And just
because we can defend Amsterdam now doesn't mean
it will be equally practical later. By the time
this problem gets more pressing, the first world
countries will be so busy keeping the Connecticut
River out of Bill's ground floor and keeping the
Atlantic out of Myrtle Beach that alleviating the
Bangladeshis' problem by lifting them out of poverty
will take a back seat.

To get to the root problem with this theory, you're just making stuff
up.

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think changing weather patterns (like
more strong flooding in various places) will be a
big problem well before actual sea level rise is,
but this is just a guess on my part. In any case,
trying to continue with emissions-as-usual and
figuring we can grow economies to pay our way out
of it is hoping to cure the disease by palliating
the symptoms.

You can tax Canada. That boring column I referenced upthread is pointing
to a government report that says, with a lot of caveats and doomsaying,
that a rise in temperature would make Canada a nicer place to live.

There's a lot more Canada (and Russia) than there is coastline.

Yeah, there will be more storms to mess with the crops. On the other
hand, the amount of arable land will massively increase.

As for growing economies, please contemplate the economy of 1908 and its
capabilities. For that matter, contemplate the air quality in US and UK
industrial centres at that time versus now. It gives some hope that
economic growth will be sustainable, cleaner, and more probable than
environmental measures which, last time I checked, many doomsayers swear
up and down will be insufficient to solve the problem!

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Carl Sundquist said:

It's quite likely Jim Bob Dugger from Arkansas.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/10/...
Although they're up to 17 kids (currently).

Ah, yes. I remember looking up the Duggar family's favorite recipes.
Looks like it's been scrubbed from their current website but
archive.org has Jim Bob's favorite tater tot casserole recipe:
http://web.archive.org/web/20051228040608/www.duggarfamily.com/articl...

It's still there:

http://www.duggarfamily.com/recipes.html

They just changed it to say "Tater" instead of
"Tator Tots." How freakin' hard was it to spell
"Tater" correctly?! I'm pretty sure the "tator"
is a part of one of those make-an-electric-motor-
with-potatoes-copper-and-zinc Dr. Science kits.

Anyway, I like Tater Tots, but that casserole
makes me feel like the French have been unjustly
slurred for andouillette.

Ben

I see Mom and Pop are "licensed real estate agents".

Wonder if JimBob and I have anything else in common

Steve (not a licensed real estate professional, just married to one)

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actually, I think changing weather patterns (like more strong flooding
in various places) will be a big problem well before actual sea level
rise is, but this is just a guess on my part.

Ted van de Weteringe said:

Just a guess; really? I thought that even here in Holland, water from the
hinterland was established as the main threat to flooding, more so than
the sea.

Don't worry, unlike BillC you at least have a boat. Perhaps you
can outfit it like one of those pedalling boat contraptions and
pedal and row at the same time.

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

There's a lot of coastline in the world.  And just
because we can defend Amsterdam now doesn't mean
it will be equally practical later.  By the time
this problem gets more pressing, the first world
countries will be so busy keeping the Connecticut
River out of Bill's ground floor and keeping the
Atlantic out of Myrtle Beach that alleviating the
Bangladeshis' problem by lifting them out of poverty
will take a back seat.

To get to the root problem with this theory, you're just making stuff
up.

He's got the Kunich Kore with a single bit flipped. Step back when
he's dumping.

On Apr 15, 7:12 pm, Steven Bornfeld <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

I'm really glad environmentalists made sure coal and natural gas
plants were built instead of nukes.  I am really glad the guvmint
built all those roads for people to drive on.

Actually, aren't you proud of the part cycling played in "Good Roads"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Roads_Movement

laughs.

"The Good Roads Movement was founded in May 1880,.."

See, the power to build roads was always granted in the Constitution.
They just didn't notice for a 90 years.

On Apr 15, 9:44 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

On Apr 11, 1:35 am, William Asher <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No matter how you slice it, the US is more than holding up its share of
the increase in total CO2 emissions.

Quoted message said:

I'm really glad environmentalists made sure coal and natural gas
plants were built instead of nukes.  I am really glad the guvmint
built all those roads for people to drive on.

Banks put the stake in the US nuclear industry's
heart.  Greenies just closed the coffin lid.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16286304/

Cost overruns and cheaper fossil fuel alternatives
made it unattractive to start new nuke plants even
before Three Mile Island.

I didn't read the following, but here it is:
http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/chapter9.html

It has been a long time, but it seems I remember some stuff like this:

A reason investors would hold back was partly due to a moving (target)
regulatory environment, which made construction costs difficult to
predict. And that was to a good measure driven by environmentalists,
as I remember it. Construction would get halted-restarted-halted-
restarted-... due to court orders (lawsuits by environmental groups).
Not meeting schedules is extremely costly, and the general environment
for construction was highly volatile. What if a lawsuit ended up
succeeding? What if that caused investors to lose 100% of
investment?

Now the above is my remembrance of pop news stories, so it may be
[censored]. But if true, one could see that investors would simply not
consider nukes when they could build coal plants instead, due to the
investment risk.

I don't personally care which type of plant gets built. I just want
the juice. The reason I tend to bring up nukes in these global
warming alarmist threads is because of the enormous generating
capability of nukes contrasted with their zero CO2 emission
characteristic. If the alarmists can't face the AGW-solution tradeoff
realities, then no one needs to bother figuring out if the alarmists
are right or wrong on the technical issues of AGW, or the accuracy of
the AGW consequences models. That is where we are today.

Note the regulatory aspects to investment risk now facing coal-fired
generation:
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Coal_Fired_Power_Industry_Now_In_Similiar_Position_To_Nuclear_Power_In_1970s_999.html

Also:
_Going Nuclear - A Green Makes the Case_, By Patrick Moore, Greenpeace
founder
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401209.html

Quoted message said:

The countries that
continued with nuke power (like France, Taiwan,
South Korea, Spain) either were short of local
fossil fuels or the govmint subsidized nuke
construction or both.  Cheap fossil fuels make
pursuit of any alternatives (nuclear, solar, wind,
reclaimed Usenet flamewars) uneconomical until the
fossil fuels start to run out.  Then, it's panic
time.

The US still has domestic civilian nuke expertise
because we've been helping Spain, Korea, Taiwan etc
build their plants (IOW, our industry subsidized by
their govmints).  Let us hope that our industry has
learned something in the interim so that if we start
nuke construction, we don't make as big a hash of it
as we did in the 70s.  I have a relative in the
business (which is how I am familiar with this stuff)
and although I'd guess that our engineering is fine,
the management is as Dilbert-esque as the mgmt at any
large technology company, which doesn't totally
set my mind at ease.

Unfortunately, a strict regulatory environment is part and parcel to
Dilbert-esque mgmt. Regulations tend to protect businesses that would
otherwise go under from competition, as financial stability is often
one of the granted privileges traded for being regulated. If a
company is guaranteed to survive, no matter how stupid and inefficient
they are, then it is a haven for poorly performing managers and
workers. Such a firm turns into a bureaucracy, just like guvmint,
with all the defects. Plus there is this defect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture -- I'm not suggesting
the nuclear industry should not be regulated, I'm just sayin there
ain't no perfect solution. Choose your evil carefully and minimize it
defects.

On a side note, the corp I work for now does not have retarded
management. I was pleasantly surprised, and hope I continue to feel
that way. It makes all the difference in the world. I had decided to
leave engineering because of how stupid it was getting -- and I had
embarked on new training -- but then I landed this job and redirected
back. The road has twists and turns.

On Apr 16, 1:25 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted post said:

On Apr 14, 6:38 pm, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]> wrote:
> In article
> <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>  [email hidden] wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 5:38 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > > I don't know about you but personally I'm sick and tired of fools
> > > playing at
> > > knowledge they don't have.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > OTOH, it's occasionally kinda amusing watching you. Not always, and
> > not in large doses, but admittedly sometimes kinda amusing.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp/temp-co2-spots.png

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> As a Canadian, I would like to heartily endorse whatever root cause is
> responsible for that temperature trend.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> <http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=f5fecf8e-61
> 6e-4fb1-852c-1dd2ebf5810f&k=59121>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> If there is anything I could personally do to accelerate the process,
> please let me know.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Eat a lot of beef.  Raising beef cattle is very energy intensive.
You can also get hamburgers at the drive through and
eat them in the car, killing two birds (endangered shorebirds,
probably) with one stone.

Quoted message said:

Check, and I'll work on it...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

However, if you eat enough beef to personally make a
difference, you may have a heart attack before realizing
any of the benefits of a warmer climate.  Then there's the
whole Bangladeshi-refugee thing.  Plus, you know what
a warmer climate means for bike racing, right?
Less cyclocross.

Quoted message said:

I'll put my evil-brain cards on the table: I have been to several places
in the world that are already under water.

Quoted message said:

Amsterdam and Richmond, BC, are doing okay.

Quoted message said:

The problem in Bangladesh is poverty, and eliminating that as a
structural issue is something, historically, which we have already
solved in several test cases (cf. S. Korea et al).

Quoted message said:

If Bangladesh is still too poor to build dykes by the time the water
starts rising appreciably, then I for one would still expect that the
problem is best regarded (and solved) as a crisis of poverty, not
tidelines.

Quoted message said:

Because, you know, on the margin being desperately poor isn't that much
better than being desperately poor and submerged. The former puts one in
mind of winning a Cat 4 race*.

Quoted message said:

To put it another way, I think we have a way better chance of making
Bangladesh rich than we do of changing the weather 100 years from now.
And I'm virtually certain the fiscal and social returns will be better.

There's a lot of coastline in the world.  And just
because we can defend Amsterdam now doesn't mean
it will be equally practical later.  By the time
this problem gets more pressing, the first world
countries will be so busy keeping the Connecticut
River out of Bill's ground floor and keeping the
Atlantic out of Myrtle Beach that alleviating the
Bangladeshis' problem by lifting them out of poverty
will take a back seat.

Actually, I think changing weather patterns (like
more strong flooding in various places) will be a
big problem well before actual sea level rise is,
but this is just a guess on my part.  In any case,
trying to continue with emissions-as-usual and
figuring we can grow economies to pay our way out
of it is hoping to cure the disease by palliating
the symptoms.

It's sort of like the Kübler-Ross
five stages of grief.  The grievous occasion is the
unsustainability of present consumption trends
(not just oil burning, but deforestation and so on) -
essentially, our way of life as presently arranged.
Kunich is in stage 1, denial.  Figuring that we can
cure it by economic growth alone, without planning
that growth so that it doesn't make things worse,
is in stage 3, bargaining.

Killing pigs will grow the economy and the middle class at the same
time, although you might not _completely_ agree with that.

Killing the piggies is powerful medicine, why couldn't it cure AGW
too?

I might have subconciously stolen that from BF.

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>, William Asher

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck said:

http://tinyurl.com/4suwfj

Nice. That's Inhofe right?

Carl's right, I'd say. It appears to be Jim Bob and Michelle
Duggar, who are up to
about 17, the last I saw. Holy [censored], think about that: she's been
pregnant for pretty much 20 years. And what kind of name is "Jinger?"
Oh, it says here [1] that it's pronounced like "Ginger." Oh.

Anyway, that wasn't the first use of "clown car" I'd seen. That
came on this page
[2] and the kid kount is much lower but it's still funny. One must
scroll down but check out the whole page.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duggar

[2]
http://listoftheday.blogspot.com/2007/09/great-olan-mills-photos.html

I was remembering this:

http://inhofe.senate.gov/images/trial3.jpg

--
Bill Asher

On Apr 16, 3:13 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

What if not desired? You have to respect a cuisine
that can render even ice cream cake unappetizing.
Even cultures with trashy cooking generally manage
to make decent dessert.

Speaking of family recipes:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-weiner/mccain-family-recipes-lif_b_96666.html

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

SLAVE of THE STATE said:

William Asher said:

No matter how you slice it, the US is more than holding up its share of
the increase in total CO2 emissions.

I'm really glad environmentalists made sure coal and natural gas
plants were built instead of nukes. I am really glad the guvmint
built all those roads for people to drive on.

Banks put the stake in the US nuclear industry's
heart. Greenies just closed the coffin lid.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16286304/

Cost overruns and cheaper fossil fuel alternatives
made it unattractive to start new nuke plants even
before Three Mile Island. The countries that
continued with nuke power (like France, Taiwan,
South Korea, Spain) either were short of local
fossil fuels or the govmint subsidized nuke
construction or both. Cheap fossil fuels make
pursuit of any alternatives (nuclear, solar, wind,
reclaimed Usenet flamewars) uneconomical until the
fossil fuels start to run out. Then, it's panic
time.

The US still has domestic civilian nuke expertise
because we've been helping Spain, Korea, Taiwan etc
build their plants (IOW, our industry subsidized by
their govmints). Let us hope that our industry has
learned something in the interim so that if we start
nuke construction, we don't make as big a hash of it
as we did in the 70s. I have a relative in the
business (which is how I am familiar with this stuff)
and although I'd guess that our engineering is fine,
the management is as Dilbert-esque as the mgmt at any
large technology company, which doesn't totally
set my mind at ease.

The scheme had been to design each plant from the ground up.
What is called for is a single design, with options.
Remember the late nineteenth century? Drummers crossed the
land selling (yes!) bridges. Single design, pre-fabricated,
modular iron bridges. Order it from Pittsburgh; in a few
weeks or less it shows up at your station platform.
Puzzle over the instructions, then put it up.

--
Michael Press

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Howard Kveck <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> In article
> <[email hidden]>,
> "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

> > I don't need to be one of the cool guys. Because
> > that's impossible. I'm a nerd, remember? One of
> > those dorks who owns more than one HP calculator.

Quoted message said:

> HP calculators? Bah. I have (and still use) one of these:

Quoted message said:

>http://tinyurl.com/6g9hjt

Quoted message said:

> Note the last line in the 'comments' section...

Quoted message said:

Had one of these for years, but it was stolen
<http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/Corvus-500/Contents.htm>

Good ol' RPN! I haven't seen that in a while. That was on the first calculator I
had, a Novus 4510 that lasted about five months.

Mega-nerds use HP calculators because they (we)
like RPN. Actually, Postscript, as in the printer
language, is also RPN.

However, I started off with a TI-57
http://www.datamath.org/Sci/MAJESTIC/TI-57.htm
which is what I learned programming with. In fact,
I still have it and it works on AC power, although
the battery pack is long dead. Hmm, maybe I'll
rebuild the battery pack. Jesus, this thing is
almost as old as my most-ancient bicycle.

Yikes! I just remembered. Pawed through the pile
and came up with a TI-59. Plug in ROM problem solvers
and a magnetic strip read-write head.

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>, William Asher <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck said:

http://tinyurl.com/4suwfj

Nice. That's Inhofe right?

Carl's right, I'd say. It appears to be Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar, who are up to
about 17, the last I saw. Holy [censored], think about that: she's been pregnant for pretty
much 20 years. And what kind of name is "Jinger?" Oh, it says here [1] that it's
pronounced like "Ginger." Oh.

Anyway, that wasn't the first use of "clown car" I'd seen. That came on this page
[2] and the kid kount is much lower but it's still funny. One must scroll down but
check out the whole page.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duggar

[2] http://listoftheday.blogspot.com/2007/09/great-olan-mills-photos.html

Yes I got all the way to Dorothy Hamill cut and further. Done laughing?
That is not her hair. So sad.

--
Michael Press

In article <[email hidden]>,

William Asher said:

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>, William Asher

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck wrote:

>
> http://tinyurl.com/4suwfj
>

Nice. That's Inhofe right?

Carl's right, I'd say. It appears to be Jim Bob and Michelle
Duggar, who are up to
about 17, the last I saw. Holy [censored], think about that: she's been
pregnant for pretty much 20 years. And what kind of name is "Jinger?"
Oh, it says here [1] that it's pronounced like "Ginger." Oh.

Anyway, that wasn't the first use of "clown car" I'd seen. That
came on this page
[2] and the kid kount is much lower but it's still funny. One must
scroll down but check out the whole page.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duggar

[2]
http://listoftheday.blogspot.com/2007/09/great-olan-mills-photos.html

I was remembering this:

http://inhofe.senate.gov/images/trial3.jpg

What is the bizarre image processing around the busts
back row, picture right?

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

What is the bizarre image processing around the busts
back row, picture right?

I think those are halos. Or maybe santorum.

--
Bill Asher