Building a touring drivetrain

dccarroll-<< I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer, pulling a Burley
Nomad trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano 600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39
crankset up front and an 8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. >><BR><BR>
<< At first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the rear cassette for a
MTB cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a long cage rear derailleur. >><BR><BR>

Good call.

dccarroll- << I talked to a guy at REI who has a lot of touring experience about this, and he seemed
pretty sure that I should also change to a triple in the front. >><BR><BR>

Depends on you. Yopu can get really inexpensive triple cranks and BBs and front ders. Hopefully your
left shifter will accomodate a triple.

<< So far, I've been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or XT rear
derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset. I don't really know what bottom
bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get. >><BR><BR>

I would say barend shifters then ya can use any front der/crank combo. If a moden 105 triple crank
ya need a Octalink/splined BB in 118mm length.

I think getting 9s barends and you would have an easier time finding cogsets in EastJesus
or Bumfuk .

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Bruce Graham said:

I met someone else on the same trip with a set up like that (you??) I was envious of their legs,
not their bike.

I was there in late 1990. I don't think my bike is anything to be envious of nor my legs for that
matter ;-) read all about my ride and my bike at mseries.freeserve.co.ukmseries.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

snip

Quoted message said:

I think getting 9s barends and you would have an easier time finding cogsets in EastJesus or
Bumfuk .

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria

snip

I have done repeated searches for the above mentioned Hammlets, but have never found them.

Are they in the Republic???....🙂

My favorite ride never leaves Pennsylvania. We start out at Bird-In-Hand, go through Intercourse,
and over to Paradise.

HAND Life is Good. Ride More

--
³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

Thanks to the popularity of cyclo-cross and mountain biking, it's now easy to set up a touring
drivetrain. A 110/74 mm triple is perfect for loaded touring, and 11-28 or 12-30 cassettes are easy
to come by. The problem comes with shifters- if you want to use brifters you're going to have more
problems getting things working well, because brifters are aimed at the racers and poseurs not the
practical rider.

If you go with bar-end shifters- and even better, with friction shifters, you can use any
combination of derailleurs, cranks and cassettes. Works great and since you're not racing, the lack
of indexing is unimportant. Shifting is a trivial skill.

Pete Biggs said:

There's not a lot of choice with the chainrings supplied as standard but a Sora, Tiagra or 105 (or
Campagnolo Mirage) triple will be good if you are prepared to change the rings, and if 38 or 39T*
minimum for middle is acceptable. Suitable Shimano, Stronglight and TA rings are available. The
original rings could easily be sold to help fund the customization. This really is worth doing, in
my experience.

While lots of 38 and 39t rings ones that have ramps and pins aren't to plentiful and do co$t. If
your using STI that becomes a large problem. My Ergo didn't seem to care when I needed a 42 middle
ring and used a flat one from a double. I don't think it would matter for barend or downtube
shifters at all.

110 bolt pattern cranks seem to make a lot more sense than 130 or 135.

Pete Biggs said:

There's not a lot of choice with the chainrings supplied as standard but a Sora, Tiagra or 105 (or
Campagnolo Mirage) triple will be good if you are prepared to change the rings, and if 38 or 39T*
minimum for middle is acceptable. Suitable Shimano, Stronglight and TA rings are available. The
original rings could easily be sold to help fund the customization. This really is worth doing, in
my experience.

~PB

Well, The original chainrings are well used. I've put about five hundred miles on them since I
bought the bike used from a LBS mechanic, and he had used it for a year as a daily commuter to the
shop (25 miles for him), about 3-4 times a week). So I don't think anyone would buy them, or even
the Ultegra STIs, which have seen a lot of use. I gave it some thought over night, and it makes
sense to get the configuration you've suggested, so I've been looking for a deal on a good crankset,
instead of a cheapie.

I think that triple chainrings are more bother than they're worth. I've never had a triple where
sooner or later I didn't manage to suck the chain up between the chainstay and granny chainring and
chew bits out of the chainstay. I saw it happen to two other riders on Thursday's New Years Day ride
through the hills.

These days I think the Rohloff hub is a better solution for touring. I have a tandem that uses a
Rohloff instead of a wide range triple. And see sheldonbrown.comrohloffOpen ↗
impressions.html for someone else's opinion.

Nick

"Dave Carroll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is there a particular reason you have a double up front?

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Carroll

Quoted message said:

I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer, pulling a Burley Nomad
trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano 600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39
crankset up front and an 8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At
first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the rear cassette for a MTB
cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a long cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at
REI who has a lot of touring experience about this, and he seemed pretty sure that I should also
change to a triple in the front. I don't have much money for parts--I'm saving for this trip!--but
I don't want to be SOL while on tour in unfamiliar territory. So I'm considering buying piecemeal
a whole new drivetrain, including new shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be a good set-
up, piece by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard it's a little more reliable and less
maintenance than 9 speed, and I need to have a bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame.
So far, I've been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or XT rear
derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset. I don't really know what bottom
bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get. So does anyone have any recommendations for an
(relatively) inexpensive 8-speed drivetrain set-up that could take me happily through my trip?
I've never built a drivetrain before, so I'm sure there a number of smaller components in it that
I've failed to list; what are all the parts I would need to replace moving from the current 600
set-up (including the brake/shifters) to a touring triple cranket?

48-39 front and 8 speed ?? at the rear??

There's really no proper drive train for touring as it depends solely on individual's choices. Also,
why are you challenging your confidence that a few hills will do you in?

Despite the challenges ahead, most people who tour any long period of time will undoubtly become
stronger riders, sometimes to the amazement of one's self. What he or she thought as hills that are
unclimbable suddenly becomes routine. The point is, how much time are you going to spend climbing
hills should justify how much you want to spend.

The misconception here is that, lower grannies will make steeper hills easier to climb. It gives a
good experienced, well conditioned and trained climber the means to bail when he or she gets tired,
but does not do a thing to an inexperienced and unconditioned cyclist other than to pump the heart
ever so faster and faster. You eventually exhaust yourself quicker this way, not to mention your
legs. I mean, I always see people on tour that grind up a hill so darn slow that you can probably
walk faster than the poor soul. But you know, there are some people who would prefer to climb a 22%
grade hill with a granny than be suffered the shame of walking the bike. That's fine if you have the
dough. In your case, money is tight.

If you want best bang for the buck to get some granny gears, I would suggest that you go for a
triple crankset (MTB version 44/32/22) and a BB to match, a MTB front derailleur and a bar end
friction shifter to shift. Keep whatever you have on the rear, but try to get a lower gear cassette
if possible. If you currently have a 11-23, try a 11-27 or 11-28 that your current derailleur can
absolutely take max. 22/28 gives you a pretty good granny combination up some hills. If it's too
steep, just walk. There's no shame in that.

As for component level, I have always been happy with Deore stuff. Inexpensive and not too shabby. I
am now using an Altus 42/32/22 crankset on my touring bike and it had proven itself to be very tough
and durable. Did 3000 miles this year and it held up well. And it's cheap being $8 new from the LBS
who happened to have a few lying around because young poser kids hate these and wanted XTR or Race
Face instead. Yeah right.. Just wait till they have to change the chain rings on those ones when
they worn down. Mucho moolah! If one of the rings go on my Altus, I just pop a new crankset in as I
have plenty stocked up. Being $5 each (new from take-offs!!), it sure beats replacing individual
chain rings that can cost $20-40 a pop! The downside is, it's heavier than Deore cranks if you're a
weight weenie that is.

David <[email hidden]> wrote:
: I mean, I always see people on tour that grind up a hill so darn slow that you can probably walk
: faster than the poor soul. But you know, there are some people who would prefer to climb a 22%
: grade hill with a granny than be suffered the shame of walking the bike. That's fine if you have
: the dough. In your case, money is tight.

dude, have you ever pushed a 60 pound touring bike up a 22% grade?
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Dave Carroll said:

Possibility: Shimano Ultegra bar end shifter 8 speed (w/friction mode)

Sugino Impel 150X, 7-8-Spd 170mm 24-34-42t Crankset or a Sugino XD300, Square Taper Crankset, 7/8-
Speed, 170mm, 26-36-46t, 74 x 110mm BCD

SRAM 5.0 11-32: 8-Speed, 11-12-14-16-18-21-26-32 Cassette

SRAM 2004 5.0 ESP, Rear Derailleur

I was thinking about getting these, how do they sound? What would be a good bottom bracket and
front derailleur for a set-up like this? Would the Ultegra bar end shifters work fine with this?

In terms of gearing, sounds like this ought to work fine. The 42 x 11 might be a little bit on the
low side (unless you're carrying 60 lbs of gear on a self-supported transcontinental tour). I'd
maybe be inclined to a 24-36-46 if I was doing a loaded tour with mountains (bear in mind that I
don't do loaded touring; I don't like to camp).

Quoted message said:

Right now I have the 600 Ultegra STI, if I got the bar end shifters can I/should I continue using
them as brake levers? I've read many positive things about bar cons (they are compatible with much
more than the STIs are) and a mechanic who tours suggested a square taper crankset.

You could conntinue to use the STI levers if you like them, I'd personally change them out as
they're rather heavy for just brake levers. Many people find them really comfortable and that may
mean more to you than the weight.

Quoted message said:

The Impel crankset has a good ring arrangement, but the XD300 appears to be higher quality. Is the
difference between 24-34-42 and 26-36-46 huge?

On a day with a good tailwind, you might run out of gears with the 42 x 11.

David Reuteler said:

David <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I mean, I always see people on tour that grind up a hill so darn
slow : that you can probably walk faster than the poor soul. But you know, : there are some people
who would prefer to climb a 22% grade hill with a : granny than be suffered the shame of walking
the bike. That's fine if : you have the dough. In your case, money is tight.

dude, have you ever pushed a 60 pound touring bike up a 22% grade?

Or even just walked up a 22% grade with a backpack, which is far less inconvenient than pushing a
bike. IMHO it sucks. I'd rather ride.

Assuming you are just going to do this gear change for the tour of Spain only, and want to go as
cheap, but reliable as possible. Go over to Nashbar or Performance, or Cambria Bike Outfitters, or
Supergo, and look for a cheap, $20, mountain bike triple crankset. Any brand, doesn't matter as long
as its cheap. It will come with 44-32-22 gearing most likely. Good enough for a tour. Low enough
inner ring combines with your existing rear cassette to get you up most mountains. High gears aren't
important since you are on tour and are supposed to be enjoying the scenery. You would also need a
new bottom bracket to go with the new crankset. Hopefully a cheap square taper one for $8 from the
same sources. Check the closeout pages. You would probably have to shorten your existing chain to
fit on the big-big combination. Probably would not have to change your rear derailleur unless you
really wanted to. If so then look for a cheap Shimano rear derailleur. RX100 or something. Cheap. 7
or 8 or 9 it does not matter for the cranksets or rear derailleurs or front derailleurs. Try the new
setup with your current front derailleur. YOu could also get a new front derailleur for cheap. $20
at most for a triple 105 front derailleur.

For shifters, I don't know if your current STI brake/shifters will shift a triple or not. If they
do then you are set. If not, then buy the bar end shifters from Nashbar for about $50. Or a set of
downtube shifters if you can mount them. Install only the front derailleur shifter. Continue using
the STI for the rear derailleur. Just leave the left STI alone for braking. Left STI for braking.
Bar end or downtube shifter for front derailleur shifting. Right STI for braking and rear
derailleur shifting.

Cheap triple crankset, cheap bottom bracket, cheap rear derailleur, cheap front derailleur, and
maybe bar end shifters from Nashbar will set you back $125 in total. More than adequate to get
through a nice tour. Not ideal shifting or gear selection for a long tour, but you should have easy
enough gears to get up the mountains, and good medium gears to go down the road.

Dave Carroll <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I have a Gunnar Crosshairs that will be on touring duty this summer, pulling a Burley Nomad
trailer thru Spain. Right now, I have a Shimano 600 series gruppo on the bike, with a 48-39
crankset up front and an 8-speed Shimano Hyperglide cassette in the back, all road parts. At
first, on the advice of a friend, I was planning on simply swapping the rear cassette for a MTB
cassette, perhaps an LX or XT one, and getting a long cage rear derailleur. I talked to a guy at
REI who has a lot of touring experience about this, and he seemed pretty sure that I should also
change to a triple in the front. I don't have much money for parts--I'm saving for this trip!--but
I don't want to be SOL while on tour in unfamiliar territory. So I'm considering buying piecemeal
a whole new drivetrain, including new shifters/brakes. I was wondering what would be a good set-
up, piece by piece? I want to remain at 8 speed, I've heard it's a little more reliable and less
maintenance than 9 speed, and I need to have a bottom pull front derailleur for the cross frame.
So far, I've been thinking about something like: SRAM 5.0 11-32 cassette, Deore LX or XT rear
derailleur, Shimano 105 52-42-30 crankset. I don't really know what bottom
bracket/shifters/otheraccessories I need to get. So does anyone have any recommendations for an
(relatively) inexpensive 8-speed drivetrain set-up that could take me happily through my trip?
I've never built a drivetrain before, so I'm sure there a number of smaller components in it that
I've failed to list; what are all the parts I would need to replace moving from the current 600
set-up (including the brake/shifters) to a touring triple cranket?

yeah but i bash and misalign the 8 speed chain. so what happens to the 9 outside kamloops when I get
tired? less is less? or is less more here?

howabout the alpine CR setup? top two gears close ratio with the small CR holding up the 22% grade?

Tim McNamara said:

Thanks to the popularity of cyclo-cross and mountain biking, it's now easy to set up a touring
drivetrain. A 110/74 mm triple is perfect for loaded touring, and 11-28 or 12-30 cassettes are
easy to come by. The problem comes with shifters- if you want to use brifters you're going to have
more problems getting things working well, because brifters are aimed at the racers and poseurs
not the practical rider.

If you go with bar-end shifters- and even better, with friction shifters, you can use any
combination of derailleurs, cranks and cassettes. Works great and since you're not racing, the
lack of indexing is unimportant. Shifting is a trivial skill.

Tim, you lost me.

What do you see as the issue? We do a very large number of these:
yellowjersey.orgergokit.htmlOpen ↗

and if there were "problems getting things to work well" I'm sure I would have heard something.

Hell, If there were a lot of "problems getting things to work well", I would have raised the price!

Two, three years ago we were selling mostly the abbreviated kit on existing cranks. Lately, more
than half go to a wider range (Sugino 110/74, not 30-42-52 type) crank and matching front changer.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

A Muzi said:

Tim McNamara said:

Thanks to the popularity of cyclo-cross and mountain biking, it's now easy to set up a touring
drivetrain. A 110/74 mm triple is perfect for loaded touring, and 11-28 or 12-30 cassettes are
easy to come by. The problem comes with shifters- if you want to use brifters you're going to
have more problems getting things working well, because brifters are aimed at the racers and
poseurs not the practical rider. If you go with bar-end shifters- and even better, with friction
shifters, you can use any combination of derailleurs, cranks and cassettes. Works great and since
you're not racing, the lack of indexing is unimportant. Shifting is a trivial skill.

Tim, you lost me.

Specifically, the left STI shifter can have trouble dealing with a triple (or did- I haven't mucked
around with them in several years and perhaps it's a non-issue now). Campagnolo's left Ergo shifter
doesn't seem to have this problem. It's a non-issue, of course, with good old friction shifters.

Tim McNamara <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David Reuteler said:

David <[email hidden]> wrote:

: I mean, I always see people on tour that grind up a hill so darn
slow : that you can probably walk faster than the poor soul. But you know, : there are some
people who would prefer to climb a 22% grade hill with a : granny than be suffered the shame of
walking the bike. That's fine if : you have the dough. In your case, money is tight.

dude, have you ever pushed a 60 pound touring bike up a 22% grade?

Or even just walked up a 22% grade with a backpack, which is far less inconvenient than pushing a
bike. IMHO it sucks. I'd rather ride.

In Switzerland I was riding my loaded touring bike up a hill that had a 22% or so grade sign. The
hill was only about 3 miles long. Sort of a mesa/ridge. Not a mountain. The 22% grade portion was
only about 200 yards. I stopped to take a picture of the 22% grade sign. You don't see 22% grade
signs too often. When trying to get started again, I had to push the bike up to the sign and hold
onto the sign while getting clipped into my pedals. Then push off and ride sideways across the road
to get up enough momentum to go forward. So if you are on really steep climbs, make sure to keep in
mind you may need help getting started again if you choose to stop. So pick your stopping spots very
carefully.

I'm convinced the people who advocate walking up steep hills or mountains while touring have never
actually ridden a loaded touring bike up a steep hill or mountain. Its a whole lot easier to have
real low gears and ride a bike up than to walk and push a bike up.

Pretty awesome Russell, enjoyed reading very much! I just started loaded touring and will keep in
mind about stopping and starting on steep grades. -tom

"Russell Seaton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

In Switzerland I was riding my loaded touring bike up a hill that had a 22% or so grade sign. The
hill was only about 3 miles long. Sort of a mesa/ridge. Not a mountain. The 22% grade portion was
only about 200 yards. I stopped to take a picture of the 22% grade sign. You don't see 22% grade
signs too often. When trying to get started again, I had to push the bike up to the sign and hold
onto the sign while getting clipped into my pedals. Then push off and ride sideways across the
road to get up enough momentum to go forward. So if you are on really steep climbs, make sure to
keep in mind you may need help getting started again if you choose to stop. So pick your stopping
spots very carefully.

I'm convinced the people who advocate walking up steep hills or mountains while touring have never
actually ridden a loaded touring bike up a steep hill or mountain. Its a whole lot easier to have
real low gears and ride a bike up than to walk and push a bike up.

BTW, I just ordered the parts at the LBS.

Sugino XD300 46-36-26 crankset, 175 mm cranks Sora front deraileur for triple front, eight speed
cassette Sunrace 12-34 8 spd cassette Deore LX rear derailleur Ultegra bar end shifters, w/friction
mode Dia-Compe Blaze brake levels, for the cantis SRAM 8 speed chain

The shop guy and I agreed to wait for the parts to arrive before we get a bottom bracket, so we can
actually look at the goods first. The price is $180.

I chose these parts for because they were inexpensive relative to many other options, and
appropriate for touring. I hope these meet with the approval of all of you who gave great advice.
The guy I dealt with really thought I knew my stuff, although I told him that it was based on
considerable help.

Dave

p.s. I'm looking forward to finding a frame to upgrade with the other parts

Tim McNamara wrote: -snip-

Quoted message said:

Specifically, the left STI shifter can have trouble dealing with a triple (or did- I haven't
mucked around with them in several years and perhaps it's a non-issue now). Campagnolo's left Ergo
shifter doesn't seem to have this problem. It's a non-issue, of course, with good old friction
shifters.

Sorry, I get it now. (We don't sell very much Shimano) I absolutely agree about STi and wide
triples. Finicky.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971