Peanuts on Airplane

I don't have an answer to the problem, but I will say that I find the whole discussion/idea
fascinating. How much is the society at large responsible for protecting the individual?

I've heard of people who are allergic to the fragrances found in most soaps and personal care
products. I corresponded with such a person once. She lives out in the woods by herself. Every item
in her house has been rigorously cleaned because her list of chemical sensitivities is enormous.
People who visit her get an instruction list of the sorts of products they're allowed to use before
coming. One whiff of the wrong stuff could kill her. The exhaust from the ambulence come to save her
life would kill her. I understand there are a bunch of people with the disorder.

Now what if she wanted to ride an airplane? She's certainly handicapped. Would that handicap entitle
her to a special airplane cleaned with special cleaning products with everyone on board including
pilots, flight attendants and other travelers having washed with special soaps and shampoos first?
It sounds absurd, but I wonder.

For me, going without peanuts for the duration of a flight is no big deal. I may not love it, but
I'm willing to do it if asked. Subjecting myself to the sort of rigorous scrutiny this woman gives
her houseguests is out of the question. I'm not willing to go that far.

The subject has come up in the public schools too. I heard of one school banning latex everything
for the sake of one student. Locally, there are lots of schools that have peanut-free tables in the
school cafeteria. And there are peanut-free schools. Sometimes the other parents and students are
portrayed as being glad to help for the sake of one allergic classmate. In other news articles, the
parents are getting fed up with being told what they can put in their own child's lunchbox. Peanuts
are, after all, a legal substance.

It is all very interesting.

--Lia

Dave Smith said:

Jonathan Sachs said:

Is this supposed to be a joke? The last time I flew, peanuts were about the only solid food
still offered.

Last time I flew was Sept/02. They handed out peanuts on one leg of the flight. I don't eat
peanuts. On the way back they gave us pretzels, but they forgot the copious amounts of beer that
make pretzels palatable.

I don't think that much beer exists on the planet! :-)

Kate

--
Kate Connally “If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.” Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that
smiles back, Until you bite their heads off.” What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all
about? "][email hidden]

Julia Altshuler said:

Now what if she wanted to ride an airplane? She's certainly handicapped. Would that handicap
entitle her to a special airplane cleaned with special cleaning products with everyone on board
including pilots, flight attendants and other travelers having washed with special soaps and
shampoos first? It sounds absurd, but I wonder.

I know next to nothing about disability law, but I do know that the ADA requires "reasonable
accommodations" for persons with disabilities. I don't think think that having to provide a special
airplane would be considered reasonable.

Quoted message said:

Sometimes the other parents and students are portrayed as being glad to help for the sake of one
allergic classmate. In other news articles, the parents are getting fed up with being told what
they can put in their own child's lunchbox.

This is indeed a touchy subject. I've always wondered what would happen in a case where two
"reasonable accommodations" were in conflict. Hypothetically, what if one student has a life-
threatening peanut allergy, and another has a life-threatening enzyme deficiency that requires him
to eat peanuts with every meal?

Quoted message said:

Peanuts are, after all, a legal substance.

That's not a relevant point, if it ever was! Our lawmakers have established the right of public
schools to require students to wear uniforms (Seig Heil!), and to test all participants in
extracurricular activities for drugs, which I consider a massive invasion of privacy. There is
strong support in certain quarters for testing ALL students for drugs, and it may well happen. We
may still live in a democracy, but our children are increasingly being educated in police-state
institutions.

My mail address is jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

Lena B Katz said:

Taffy Stoker said:

Brian Macke said:

This is made more complicated by the low-carb fervor that tells people that pretzels are bad.
But that's a subject for a different thread.

Lowcarbers are smart enough to bring thier *own* low carb snacks on the plane.

but stupid enough to have fallen for the food industries hype.

Seriously, people, _there is no magic pill_! You're still gonna die no matter what. Lovin' your
body does not mean following the magic recipe--it don't exist.

Lena

*plonk*

Quoted message said:

anti-dieter

miss_jaime said:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 13:13:05 -0500 (EST), Lena B Katz <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

but stupid enough to have fallen for the food industries hype.

Seriously, people, _there is no magic pill_! You're still gonna die no matter what. Lovin' your
body does not mean following the magic recipe--it don't exist.

Lena

*plonk*

Lena is dead on, so I'll plonk you for being ridiculously sensitive.

Brian Rodenborn

mary saw Sally selling seashells by the seashore and told us all about
it on Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:35:10 -0500:

Quoted message said:

I do not know if this is true or if it is one of those urban myth things. I heard that they do
not serve peanuts on the plane because some people might be allergic to them. Does this mean that
they do not serve them because if anyone opened a bag of peanuts on the plane, someone who was
allergic but not eating them would be affected (peanut dust?). Or is it that the airline would
prefer to only have one snack, such as pretzels, rather than carrying two different types for
inventory reasons?

Some airlines phased them out about a decade ago due to the increasing number of peanut allergies.
There were a couple of cases of allergic passengers who had severe life-threatening allergic
reactions when they had not even touched the nuts offered - the traces of peanut dust circulating in
the air system were enough to trigger the reaction. But that's very very rare and they seem to have
decided that peanuts are 'expected' or something. I was offered them on four out of six aeroplanes
recently... the other two offered equally inedible (but peanut-free) pretzels.

Personally I'd rather they were scrapped altogether... I don't eat nuts and I can't stand the smell
when the people around me start opening the packets and eating them. Ugh!

~Karen AKA Kajikit

Nobody outstubborns a cat...

Visit my webpage: kajikitscorner.comkajikitscorner.comOpen ↗ Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap:
groups.yahoo.comAllergyfree EatingOpen ↗ Ample Aussies Mailing List:
groups.yahoo.comampleaussiesOpen ↗

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 14:35:10 -0500, "mary" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I do not know if this is true or if it is one of those urban myth things. I heard that they do
not serve peanuts on the plane because some people might be allergic to them. Does this mean that
they do not serve them because if anyone opened a bag of peanuts on the plane, someone who was
allergic but not eating them would be affected (peanut dust?). Or is it that the airline would
prefer to only have one snack, such as pretzels, rather than carrying two different types for
inventory reasons?

Thanks

Tom

IMO, they would prefer to serve nothing at all unless there was a really, really cheap tranquilizer
that they could use to keep the cargo from being a nuisance. I haven't seen a peanut for a while now
and assume that the tiny packet containing 4 1/2 tiny pretzels is a fraction of a cent cheaper than
the equally tiny packet containing 9 peanuts. FWIW, American Airlines still serves warm mixed nuts
to 1st class, but the mixture does not contain peanuts.

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:wjCMb.33656$sv6.98909@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

snip for brevity <

The subject has come up in the public schools too. I heard of one school banning latex everything
for the sake of one student. Locally, there are lots of schools that have peanut-free tables in
the school cafeteria. And there are peanut-free schools. Sometimes the other parents and students
are portrayed as being glad to help for the sake of one allergic classmate. In other news
articles, the parents are getting fed up with being told what they can put in their own child's
lunchbox. Peanuts are, after all, a legal substance.

It is all very interesting.

As someone who has spent quite a lot of time in West Africa, all I can say is that they practically
live on peanuts there, it's one of their main protein crops and is eaten cooked as a staple diet by
people who often cannot afford meat. I wonder if many West African children have peanut allergies?
Somehow I doubt it. Why is this condition so prevalent in the west, I wonder?

bumble

Jonathan Sachs saw Sally selling seashells by the seashore and told us
all about it on Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:58:48 GMT:

Quoted message said:

This is indeed a touchy subject. I've always wondered what would happen in a case where two
"reasonable accommodations" were in conflict. Hypothetically, what if one student has a life-
threatening peanut allergy, and another has a life-threatening enzyme deficiency that requires him
to eat peanuts with every meal?

If the two ever met, the Universe would end in a matter/antimatter explosion...

~Karen AKA Kajikit

Nobody outstubborns a cat...

Visit my webpage: kajikitscorner.comkajikitscorner.comOpen ↗ Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap:
groups.yahoo.comAllergyfree EatingOpen ↗ Ample Aussies Mailing List:
groups.yahoo.comampleaussiesOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lena B Katz said:

Miche said:

In article said:

>When I flew last Monday (Jan 5), I accumlated 4 bags of peanuts. I was flying on Southwest,
>btw.

Yes, Southwest often (not always) carries them, but the Majors all seem to have gone over to
boring, annoying, harmless pretzels.

Pretzels aren't harmless to me -- I can't digest wheat.

but lifethreatening peanut allergies are a whole different can of worms from wheat allergies... at
least my cousin doesn't croak if someone who has eaten wheat kisses her.

Oh, I know that -- I was just pointing out that pretzels aren't necessarily harmless.

Miche

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud. -- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jonathan Sachs said:

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Peanuts are, after all, a legal substance.

That's not a relevant point, if it ever was! Our lawmakers have established the right of public
schools to require students to wear uniforms (Seig Heil!),

Oh for goodness sake.

Having to wear school uniform doesn't turn one into a drone.

Miche (been there, done that, not a drone)

--
If you want to end war and stuff you got to sing loud. -- Arlo Guthrie, "Alice's Restaurant"

Jonathan Sachs said:

This is indeed a touchy subject. I've always wondered what would happen in a case where two
"reasonable accommodations" were in conflict. Hypothetically, what if one student has a life-
threatening peanut allergy, and another has a life-threatening enzyme deficiency that requires him
to eat peanuts with every meal?

More than likely, the enzyme that the child needed could be provided in a pill...

I'm touchy about this because I have a child with food allergies, and I can see both sides of this
(so far, his allergies are not life-threatening), considering that we didn't have to deal with this
type of allergy two years ago.

It does amaze me that people would get mad cause they couldn't have peanuts on a plane, because it
might cause someone to get deathly ill. Even before our fun with allergies here, I'd never think of
being upset cause I couldn't have something, if it made someone not breathe.
--
"In Finnegans Wake, he just made up words. Now that's just not sporting!" ..A friend on James Joyce

bumble said:

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wjCMb.33656$sv6.98909@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

snip for brevity <

The subject has come up in the public schools too. I heard of one school banning latex
everything for the sake of one student. Locally, there are lots of schools that have peanut-free
tables in the school cafeteria. And there are peanut-free schools. Sometimes the other parents
and students are portrayed as being glad to help for the sake of one allergic classmate. In
other news articles, the parents are getting fed up with being told what they can put in their
own child's lunchbox. Peanuts are, after all, a legal substance.

It is all very interesting.

As someone who has spent quite a lot of time in West Africa, all I can say is that they
practically live on peanuts there, it's one of their main protein crops and is eaten cooked as a
staple diet by people who often cannot afford meat. I wonder if many West African children have
peanut allergies? Somehow I doubt it. Why is this condition so prevalent in the west, I wonder?

genetics. more africans are allergic to milk than europeans (mostly because it wasn't part of their
traditional diet, hence no selection against the allergy).

Lena

Elana Kehoe said:

Jonathan Sachs said:

This is indeed a touchy subject. I've always wondered what would happen in a case where two
"reasonable accommodations" were in conflict. Hypothetically, what if one student has a life-
threatening peanut allergy, and another has a life-threatening enzyme deficiency that requires
him to eat peanuts with every meal?

More than likely, the enzyme that the child needed could be provided in a pill...

I'm touchy about this because I have a child with food allergies, and I can see both sides of this
(so far, his allergies are not life-threatening), considering that we didn't have to deal with
this type of allergy two years ago.

It does amaze me that people would get mad cause they couldn't have peanuts on a plane, because it
might cause someone to get deathly ill. Even before our fun with allergies here, I'd never think
of being upset cause I couldn't have something, if it made someone not breathe.

You are a darling! But, where I'm from, the air regularly kills (or renders unconscious) healthy
adults. Try telling people that they can't smoke because it is affecting your thinking... or, more
relevantly, that people shouldn't all drive down the same street (*murray*) moving at 3 miles
perhour, because it means that I can't breathe. And then try telling people that they can't use
their air conditioners because the pollution from the power plants kills over a hundred people
every year...

but most people are stupid...

lena

Miche <[email hidden]> wrote in news:micheinnz-
[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Jonathan Sachs

Quoted message said:

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Peanuts are, after all, a legal substance.

That's not a relevant point, if it ever was! Our lawmakers have established the right of public
schools to require students to wear uniforms (Seig Heil!),

Oh for goodness sake.

Having to wear school uniform doesn't turn one into a drone.

Miche (been there, done that, not a drone)

Beat me to it, Miche <g>. I wore school uniform for 13 years and it didn't do me any harm. School
uniforms were the norm in government schools when I was growing up. Still are in most, I think. I
wear a uniform for work now - oops, must be a drone <g>. Certainly solves the problem of what to
wear, and as the work uniform is provided, saves me a fortune in clothing expenses.

Rhonda Anderson Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

Miche said:

Quoted message said:

That's not a relevant point, if it ever was! Our lawmakers have established the right of public
schools to require students to wear uniforms (Seig Heil!),

Oh for goodness sake.

Having to wear school uniform doesn't turn one into a drone.

I'm pleased that you survived. My point is that one of the avowed purposes of public education is to
teach our children to be good citizens, and the model of good citizenship which public schools are
presenting to them is increasingly regimented and authoritarian. Is this a model of the society we
want to develop? Not me.

My mail address is jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

(Elana Kehoe) said:

It does amaze me that people would get mad cause they couldn't have peanuts on a plane, because it
might cause someone to get deathly ill.

Well, "touchy" means that the "right" answer has to be based on the facts of each case, not some
abstract set of principles. In other words, people who base their opinions on prejudice rather than
thought are going to be egregiously wrong, no matter what their prejudice is.

Quoted message said:

Even before our fun with allergies here, I'd never think of being upset cause I couldn't have
something, if it made someone not breathe.

Some people can be incredibly self-centered. Puts me in mind of an incident some years ago where I
was waiting to cross a busy street. Along came an ambulance, lights flashing and siren screaming.
All the traffic stopped. One woman pushed off from the curb in front of the approaching vehicle, her
mind evidently empty except for the syllogism "Cars stopped = I can cross."

I grabbed her arm and said, "Lady, for God's sake, that's an ambulance!"

She glared at me, and said, "Get your hands off me!"

My mail address is jsachs177 at earthlink dot net.

Elana Kehoe said:

It does amaze me that people would get mad cause they couldn't have peanuts on a plane, because it
might cause someone to get deathly ill. Even before our fun with allergies here, I'd never think
of being upset cause I couldn't have something, if it made someone not breathe.

Essentially I agree with you. I can easily forgo peanuts for 8 hours if means saving someone's life.
Hell, I'd get hungry, but I'd gladly forgo all food for 8 hours for that. But I like to play devil's
advocate. Read the following and tell me if you'd be willing to put up with restrictions this
stringent on a daily basis in order to allow someone else to breathe. (This isn't a challenge for
Elana personally. I haven't made up my own mind on the subject. I find it interesting so I'm asking
others.) --Lia

What you need to know before visiting a person who has MCS

I can’t wait to get together, it has been so long since we last sat and chatted over a cup
of tea. I miss our friendship but most of all, I miss you. Life sure has changed in many
ways since we last visited with each other, hasn’t it? For me, interacting with other
people is one of the hardest things for me to deal with these days while having a difficult
to control illness.

Even well meaning people can cause me to have what may have started out as a “good day” into a
life threatening medical nightmare or disaster. As if living with such a difficult health
situation is not bad enough, it is often equally difficult for me to ask others not to make me
ill in my own home by using various chemicals/products that seem completely harmless (to
them). Thus, causing an entire other set of issues due to isolation, alienation and
friends/family avoiding me because being in my company or visiting me is simply not
“convenient” for my would be guest.

If you are planning to visit my home for a few minutes, hours, or for and extended over night
stay, here are some basics, which may help make our visit enjoyable and lessen the chances of my
becoming too ill to enjoy our visit as well as lessening your chances of feeling hurt, bad or
embarrassed for contributing to my illness. After all, breathing is a necessity, chemicals and
fragrances on ones body and clothing are not. The truth of the matter is I have never really
been in the company of another person who made me sick… it was the chemicals they had on their
body and clothes that has gotten my health to the compromised point in which it is today.

These are just some basics, but better to ask me than to assume. Personal hygiene

Simple rules-of-thumb:

* If the word perfume or scented (natural or otherwise) is on the label of your product, don’t
use it before you come to visit me at my home … Yes, even your breath mints, gum and mint
toothpaste smells could knock me for a loop.
* Things you cannot smell affect me and make me pretty sick; after all, it’s the chemicals not
the odors that make me sick, so … just ask if you’re in doubt.

Cosmetics have exemptions from labeling laws, they are literally allowed to state they are fragrance
free, when they in fact do have fragrances in them referred and often labeled as “masking fragrance”
which is used to cover up the smell of the product itself. Obviously, fragrance is fragrance, no
matter the reason; it's in there and it will make me very ill. Shampoo

All brands you can buy in a supermarket have fragrances in it, even baby shampoo. Please do not
“drop in” after you have just come from the salon or you have just shampooed or colored your hair.
This will make me sick. If you will be staying over night at our house, I will supply the guest
bathroom with “safe” products for you to use while visiting, including: toothpaste, shampoo,
conditioner, lotion, soap etc. Please DO NOT bring any of your own personal products into the house.

Soap is like shampoo. The worse offenders to me are Dial Soap and ALL other “deodorant/scented”
soaps. Safer alternatives are available like Neutrogena Fragrance Free soap or Basis soap. Again,
ask me and I will help you out here. Keep in mind that the soap you may wash your hands with in a
public rest room or in an airplane before you get to my house will make me sick because chances are
good that this soap will contain a perfume /fragrance.

Currently the ONLY soap that is safe around me is Neutrogena Fragrance Free Facial soap which we
also use as a GREAT shampoo bar and Kiss My Face Fragrance Free Pure Olive Oil bar. Deodorant Most
all deodorants have fragrances or "masking fragrances" and other harmful chemicals in them. A good
alternative is the crystal sticks, or any of the chemical free varieties. Try Arm and Hammer
UNSCENTED or ask me which deodorant would be ok for you to use while you are visiting me at my home.
Hand cream

There does not seem to be any safe hand creams for people chemically sensitive. Best to leave yours
at home. I have some nice “safe” lotion bars that are great even for your face. Perfumes,
fragrances, colognes, after shave, hair care products, nail polish and/or remover etc…

Just got to say NO! There are not any “safe” products that I am not neurologically sensitive to.
Please leave them all at home. Those “all natural” fragranced products are not safe around me
either. While some products are worse than others, all WILL make me sick to some degree, probably
too sick to enjoy your company. Lotions, hair gel, hair spray...

Amazing how much stuff people pour on their body every day, isn't it? Please do without these
products around me, in our home or when visiting. Clothing… What to avoid:

* DO NOT WEAR --- Newly washed clothes, unless they are just washed in baking soda and borax at
least 4 to 6 times.
* DO NOT WEAR --- Any/all clothes washed in any scented (natural or synthetic) detergents or
bleach, this will make me sick.
* DO NOT HAVE ON --- Freshly polished nails (same day)… the same goes for “just” colored hair.
* Just washed hands, which were washed with a bar or liquid soap, which has fragrance or
germicide in it.
* New clothes – new fabrics are treated with formaldehyde and formaldehyde makes me
terribly sick.
* DO NOT WEAR --- Dry-cleaned clothes.
* DO NOT WEAR --- Moth balled clothes.
* DO NOT WEAR --- ANY Clothes EVER previously washed or dried with fabric softener / dryer
sheets of any kind…This is the worse for me and will make me very sick.
* Must Repeat - DO NOT WEAR --- ANY Clothes EVER previously washed or dried with fabric
softener / dryer sheets of any kind…This is the worse for me and will make me very sick.

Do not pack (if you will be staying overnight) or wear clothes that have been in the closet next to
other clothes, which have “lingering” perfume/cologne/aftershave smells, fabric softener smells,
deodorant smells or detergent smells.

Overnight guests

I do not use any fragranced detergent, softeners or laundry/cleaning products. I wash clothes in
borax and/ baking soda; it works well even for dirty work clothes. Chances are good if you are
staying over for more than a couple of days, you will need to do a load of laundry.

Any clothing previously washed and/or dried using products that contain fragrances cannot go into my
machines or come into the house for that matter. Even if they were washed and dried last month
(fabric softeners and dryer sheets leave a long lasting waxy film that sticks on your clothing ---
for ever) this waxy chemical which stays on clothing makes me very ill.

PS… MCS is NOT an allergy or an “allergic” reaction to “smells.” It is a serious and very difficult
to manage neurological disorder triggered by chemicals. I am obviously much more
neurologically/chemically sensitive now than I probably was the last time we saw each other, but
that doesn’t mean we can’t enjoy each others company and have some fun, it just means I need to
be more careful to avoid Central Nervous System problems, seizures, migraines or the need to be
on oxygen.

More on MCS --- If I were to tell someone that I had Cancer or Multiple Sclerosis lets say, that
person I'm talking to can accept this in a detached, impersonal way. The issue usually does not
personally challenge them. Now if I tell this person that perfumes, every day household chemicals,
scented soaps and fabric softeners make me horribly sick, since he/she most likely use one or more
of these products regularly, the issue is immediately personal.

© 2002 Signs of the Times - Kathleen Houghton

Assisting in developing and implementing Fragrance Free policies for healthier living.

Lena B Katz said:

bumble said:

Julia Altshuler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wjCMb.33656$sv6.98909@attbi_s52...

Quoted message said:

snip for brevity <

The subject has come up in the public schools too. I heard of one school banning latex everything
for the sake of one student. Locally, there are lots of schools that have peanut-free tables in
the school cafeteria. And there are peanut-free schools. Sometimes the other parents and students
are portrayed as being glad to help for the sake of one allergic classmate. In other news
articles, the parents are getting fed up with being told what they can put in their own child's
lunchbox. Peanuts are, after all, a legal substance.

It is all very interesting.

As someone who has spent quite a lot of time in West Africa, all I can say is that they
practically live on peanuts there, it's one of their main protein crops and is eaten cooked as a
staple diet by people who often cannot afford meat. I wonder if many West African children have
peanut allergies? Somehow I doubt it. Why is this condition so prevalent in the west, I wonder?

genetics. more africans are allergic to milk than europeans (mostly because it wasn't part of
their traditional diet, hence no selection against the allergy).

Not allergic, intolerant because they're missing the enzyme lactase after infancy. Same with most
Asians. Northern Europeans are best able to digest milk products, but not all of them can. Selection
for persistence of lactase production, but only since the beginning of dairy agriculture.

Pastorio

x-no-archive: yes

Naomi Darvell said:

This is a dilemma too, but I don't think it's that similar to the peanut thing. That's a matter of
not giving out peanuts on public transportation. (BTW, they're not stopping people from bringing
them on; they're just not giving them out. You're not really restricted, that I can see.)

Yes, that is true...they can't stop someone from eating them on the plane. Of course, whoever does
after they make an annoucement like that...well, everyone on the plane might be mad at them after
they had to make an emergency landing :-).

Quoted message said:

This situation seems different in a number of ways. I gather this woman is confined to her house,
so if you go in, you are choosing to and you're agreeing to abide by all her restrictions. It's
not like she's going onto a plane, or into the workplace, and asking that everyone avoid perfume
or detergent for her sake. And, personally, no I wouldn't go through this type of thing on a daily
basis in a workplace or on public transportation. I would do it if I were going to someone's house
for a social visit.

I agree with all of this. I sniffle with some perfumes, and wish that the person next to me on the
train wasn't wearing it. I can't imagine what that woman goes through.

However, I have to say that it also might be worth doing for a little while every day. If borax
and baking soda gets clothes clean, it sounds like a cheaper and better way to clean clothes. As
well, why do the smells of the beauty product have to be masked (ok, I don't really wear makeup,
but I do have smelly bath stuff). It would be nice to be clean and just smell clean...with no
smell. You know?

If I were going to visit her, I would abide, of course. I might even visit for a long time. But I'm
also fascinated by things like this, and look at it as a learning opportunity.
--
"In Finnegans Wake, he just made up words. Now that's just not sporting!" ..A friend on James Joyce