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MA3 rim durability

Started by Kwalters · 21 February 2003 · Last activity 26 February 2003 · 47 posts · 4,085 views

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01 / Original postMA3 rim durabilityKwalters · 21 Feb 2003 02 / This pagePosts 21–40Page 2 of 3 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #47The Pomeranian · 26 Feb 2003

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Original section: Cycling Equipment
Published: 21 February 2003
Last activity: 26 February 2003
Original author: Kwalters
Posts: 47
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 4,085
Views / 30 days: 0
Topics: Wheel building Spoke count Spoke tension Campagnolo Rear derailleurs Tubeless tyres Wheel truing

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Waal
Archived post

21 February 2003, 21:46 UTC #21

"John Dacey" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Kraig Willett said:

What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing the MA2?
A trick question!!! As I recall, the MA 2 has *always* had a satin silver anodized finish. The "2"
in the model name distinguished it from the MA model which was a plain, (polished, not anodized)
but now highly prized trophy.
Sorry, I don't recall the years in which the various models (MA, MA 2, MA 40) first appeared.
Module E /E2 appeared around 1975/76 in polished or anodized (argent), 700c or 27x11/4 MA2, MA3, the
old Module 3, Module 4, MA40 and G40 in polished, argent or grey/brown were introduced afterwards.
Module 4 was available with 48 holes.
I've just bought a pair of polished MA2 (green/yellow label). A pair of silver-anodized MA2 were
left behind.
The new MA3 seems to be a poor sustitute
Michael
Quoted message said:
-------------------------------
businesscycles.combusinesscycles.com John Dacey Business Cycles, Miami, Florida Now in our twentieth
year. Our catalog of track equipment: seventh year online
-------------------------------

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Pete Biggs
Archived post

21 February 2003, 23:15 UTC #22

Tim McNamara said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
The MA40, which was the same rim as the MA2 but anodized, was prone to cracking just like
your rim.
The MA40 was hard anodised. The MA3 is not, so is not so prone to cracking.
As has been explained previously by the engineering types, in this effect anodizing is anodizing.
"Hard anodizing of aluminum, in contrast to cosmetic anodizing, produces a porous ceramic oxide that
forms in the surface of the metal, as much as 1/1000 inch thick, about half below the original
surface and half above." draco.acs.uci.edu8c.2.html
"It should be apparent that thin cosmetic anodizing cannot have much effect and that the harder
(thicker) the anodizing the more likely cracking becomes."
groups.google.comgroups
TF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=CqzFJJ.AI%40hpl.hp.com&rnum=4
~PB

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A Muzi
Archived post

22 February 2003, 02:00 UTC #23

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Kraig Willett said:
What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing the MA2?
Quoted message said:
Tim McNamara said:
My final year MA2s have no anodizing on them.
"Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
This may be a stupid question, but how can you tell if a rim has "clear" anodizing?
Rub a cloth over a spot between spokes. If it comes away black it was a polished aluminum finish.
--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

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Kraig Willett
Archived post

22 February 2003, 02:32 UTC #24

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>,
Kraig Willett said:
What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing the MA2?
My final year MA2s have no anodizing on them.
So your conclusion would then be that the Mavic catalog I own was a mis-print?
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Kraig Willett
Archived post

22 February 2003, 02:32 UTC #25

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

As has been explained previously by the engineering types, in this effect anodizing is anodizing.
That is not my opinon.
I believe that there is a difference between cosmetic and hard anodizing.
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Kraig Willett
Archived post

22 February 2003, 02:46 UTC #26

"Waal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I've just bought a pair of polished MA2 (green/yellow label). A pair of silver-anodized MA2 were
left behind.
A green and yellow label like this one:
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com
Which is described as an anodized rim by the folks at Mavic.
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Fong Brewster
Archived post

22 February 2003, 04:00 UTC #27

It looks like you guys are talking apples and oranges. The link does show what appears to be a
"silver anodized" MA-2 rim. (of which I didn't know Mavic made a silver anodized/brushed finish
version of this rim) However, the rim most people revere as the "ultimate" are the "polish" MA-2 rim
as shown here: bikepro.commavicroad.html
"Kraig Willett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Waal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I've just bought a pair of polished MA2 (green/yellow label). A pair

of
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
silver-anodized MA2 were left behind.
A green and yellow label like this one:
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com
Which is described as an anodized rim by the folks at Mavic.
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Kraig Willett
Archived post

22 February 2003, 04:16 UTC #28

"Fong Brewster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
It looks like you guys are talking apples and oranges. The link does show what appears to be a
"silver anodized" MA-2 rim. (of which I didn't know Mavic made a silver anodized/brushed finish
version of this rim) However, the rim most people revere as the "ultimate" are the "polish" MA-2
rim as shown here: bikepro.commavicroad.html
That link says the MA2 is clear anodized.
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Kraig Willett
Archived post

22 February 2003, 04:31 UTC #29

"John Everett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Funny thing, I read John Dacey's first post, asserting that MA2s were anodized, and went
downstairs to look at mine. They "looked" anodized to me, but then I read Jobst's post and thought
"Jobst is never wrong about these things." Then I followed the above url, and I guess at least
some MA2s were anodized, and I think my pair are among them.
How are they holding up?
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Jobst Brandt
Archived post

22 February 2003, 05:31 UTC #30

Fong Brewster said:
It looks like you guys are talking apples and oranges. The link does show what appears to be a
"silver anodized" MA-2 rim. (of which I didn't know Mavic made a silver anodized/brushed finish
version of this rim) However, the rim most people revere as the "ultimate" are the "polish" MA-2
rim as shown here:
bikepro.commavicroad.html
What is shown is not a silver anodized rim but a polished finish one with possibly a Clear Alodine
treatment. Silver anodized has the fine granular appearance of silver paint. The rim shown is a true
MA-2 and is not anodized. Anodizing always causes a matte finish.
As I said, I believe the translator or someone unclear on the process chose the words and they are
wrong. One way to test his is to see if the rim is an insulator by using it as a contact bridge for
a test bulb continuity tester.
I recall that at the time when Mavic changed hands about ten years ago, one of the main investors
was a metal finishing company that, coincidentally, did a lot of anodizing. At that time the MA-40
and a lot of other garbage was introduced, ultimately scrapping all the existing and reliable
products. As you can see on their web site, it's a lot of hype with SUP, UB, MAXTAL, CD, CERAMIC,
TUBELESS, and other hi-tech come-ons.
The management change before that got rid of all the old product labels, substituting the mod
"MAVIC---M" label and similar ones. This is not the Mavic we used to know in the days before ZAP and
Mektronic.
Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

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Brewster Fong
Archived post

22 February 2003, 05:45 UTC #31

What is "clear anodized"? Its my understanding that the Mavic MA-2 rim is a polished rim with maybe
some sort of "clearcoat" over the polish metal finish.... "Kraig Willett"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Fong Brewster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
It looks like you guys are talking apples and oranges. The link does

show
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
what appears to be a "silver anodized" MA-2 rim. (of which I didn't know Mavic made a silver
anodized/brushed finish version of this rim)

However,
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
the rim most people revere as the "ultimate" are the "polish" MA-2 rim

as
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
shown here: bikepro.commavicroad.html
That link says the MA2 is clear anodized.
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Kraig Willett
Archived post

22 February 2003, 06:31 UTC #32

"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I stated no conclusions. All I said was that my MA2s produced in the final year of their
production run have no anodizing on them. You can draw your own conclusions.
Fair enough.
What was the final year of production?
Do you own a multimeter?
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Kraig Willett
Archived post

22 February 2003, 06:31 UTC #33

<[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Fong Brewster said:
It looks like you guys are talking apples and oranges. The link does show what appears to be a
"silver anodized" MA-2 rim. (of which I didn't know Mavic made a silver anodized/brushed finish
version of this rim) However, the rim most people revere as the "ultimate" are the "polish" MA-2
rim as shown here:
bikepro.commavicroad.html
What is shown is not a silver anodized rim but a polished finish one with possibly a Clear Alodine
treatment. Silver anodized has the fine granular appearance of silver paint. The rim shown is a
true MA-2 and is not anodized. Anodizing always causes a matte finish.
Shimano says their Dura Ace parts are anodized. They don't appear matte to me.
tinyurl.com682w
Campy parts are anodized. They don't appear matte to me.
campagnolo.comgroupsets.php
My polished Control Tech stem is anodized. It doesn't appear matte to me.
controltechbikes.com2002.asp
The clear anodize wheel parts that I have experience developing appeared non matte.
Quoted message said:
As I said, I believe the translator or someone unclear on the process chose the words and they
are wrong.
The French wording appearing above the English wording in the link to the catalog page was
translated wrong?
Other wording in the same catalog: -colorless anodizing -silver anodizing -hard anodized
There are 30 rim offerings in the catalog I have. All of them are described as anodized. It would
seem to be an inconsistent story to sell one flavor of rim that wasn't anodized when the other 29
rims in the line were. Just doesn't seem like something that would be done.
Quoted message said:
One way to test his is to see if the rim is an insulator by using it as a contact bridge for a test
bulb continuity tester.
So, why don't those with MA2's and a multimeter just do the test and let us know the results?
--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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Tim McNamara
Archived post

22 February 2003, 07:31 UTC #34

In article <[email hidden]>,
Kraig Willett said:
"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>,
Kraig Willett said:
What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing the MA2?
My final year MA2s have no anodizing on them.
So your conclusion would then be that the Mavic catalog I own was a mis-print?
I stated no conclusions. All I said was that my MA2s produced in the final year of their production
run have no anodizing on them. You can draw your own conclusions.

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Bluto
Archived post

22 February 2003, 07:45 UTC #35

Quoted message said:
Kraig Willett said:
What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing the MA2?
Not at all as far as I can tell because I bought all the last ones I could find around here and
they all have only a shiny polished finish.
Every MA-2 I ever saw, mostly during the early '90s, had a shiny, polished, clear anodized finish.
Distinctly different looking than a completely non-anodized rim like the Super Champion 58.
Chalo Colina

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Waal
Archived post

22 February 2003, 09:46 UTC #36

"Kraig Willett" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Waal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
I've just bought a pair of polished MA2 (green/yellow label). A pair

of
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
silver-anodized MA2 were left behind.
A green and yellow label like this one:
Just like the original ModuleE (polished) and Module E E2/Argent but with the green/yellow label.
Michael
Quoted message said:

makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.com
Which is described as an anodized rim by the folks at Mavic.
Quoted message said:

--
==================
Kraig Willett www.biketechreview.com
==================

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John Albergo
Archived post

22 February 2003, 10:46 UTC #37

--------------080709050107030309010509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Kraig Willett said:
"Tim McNamara" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
In article <[email hidden]>,
Kraig Willett said:
What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing the MA2?

My final year MA2s have no anodizing on them.
So your conclusion would then be that the Mavic catalog I own was a mis-print?

Well, "brilliant anodized finish" does sound like a contradiction. Either they were confused or
maybe trying to pass it off as anodized since that was deemed desirable.
Quoted message said:

--------------080709050107030309010509 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta
http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <title></title> </head>
<body> <br> <br> Kraig Willett wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email hidden]"> <pre wrap="">"Tim McNamara" <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href=""][email hidden]"><[email hidden]></a> wrote in message <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href=""]news:[email hidden]">news:ti-
[email hidden]</a>... </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre
wrap="">In article <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]
news.adelphia.net"><[email hidden]></a>, "Kraig Willett"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href=""][email hidden]"><kdubente-
[email hidden]></a> wrote:
</pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre wrap="">What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing
the MA2? </pre> </blockquote> <pre wrap="">My final year MA2s have no anodizing on them. </pre>
</blockquote> <pre wrap=""> So your conclusion would then be that the Mavic catalog I own
was a mis-print? </pre> </blockquote> Well, "brilliant anodized finish" does sound like a
contradiction. Either they were confused or maybe trying to pass it off as anodized since
that was deemed desirable. <blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email hidden]"> <pre wrap=""> </pre> </blockquote>
<br> </body> </html>
--------------080709050107030309010509--

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Pete Biggs
Archived post

22 February 2003, 10:46 UTC #38

Kraig Willett said:
So, why don't those with MA2's and a multimeter just do the test and let us know the results?
I haven't got a multimeter, but I have done some tests with a simple home-made bulb/fuse
tester........
[] Old Rigida polished aluminium rim, and old Sakae SA al cranks are good conductors. (A light press
on contacts illuminates the LED in my circuit).
[] MA2* and Campagnolo Veloce and Racing T "anodized" al crank and rear derailleur body: relatively
poor conductors. (LED only lights up when contacts pressed hard).
[] Campagnolo Chorus 2001 brake levers and hubs, and Mavic Open Pro blue soft-anodized: insulators
(Can't get LED to light at all).
By the way, the rims in the catalogue pictures posted in this thread are old examples. Mavic changed
their logo since then (to the yellow Mavic "oval"😉 - which did appear on later MA2 examples......
* Pair supplied with a bike bought in the UK in 1999 (with Mavic's current logo).
- I can believe that they are coated with something - but it must be very thin and clear. The
(silver) colour is slightly lighter than that of my Rigida, and dirt always wipes off
extremely easily. The finish is glossy, not what I would call matt - as is that of Chorus
hubs, too.
~PB

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A Muzi
Archived post

22 February 2003, 15:15 UTC #39

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Kraig Willett said:
What year did Mavic start clear cosmetic anodizing the MA2?
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Not at all as far as I can tell because I bought all the last ones I could find around here and
they all have only a shiny polished finish.
"Bluto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Every MA-2 I ever saw, mostly during the early '90s, had a shiny, polished, clear anodized finish.
Distinctly different looking than a completely non-anodized rim like the Super Champion 58.
Jobst may have chosen his words hastily but he makes a good point that anodized rims do not show the
mirror bright finish of a polished aluminum surface. Although anodized finishes range from matte to
a milky satin they just don't glisten like this: yellowjersey.org1622.html
--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971

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Jobst Brandt
Archived post

22 February 2003, 20:45 UTC #40

Kraig Willett said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
It looks like you guys are talking apples and oranges. The link does show what appears to be a
"silver anodized" MA-2 rim. (of which I didn't know Mavic made a silver anodized/brushed finish
version of this rim) However, the rim most people revere as the "ultimate" are the "polish" MA-2
rim as shown here:
bikepro.commavicroad.html
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
What is shown is not a silver anodized rim but a polished finish one with possibly a Clear
Alodine treatment. Silver anodized has the fine granular appearance of silver paint. The rim
shown is a true MA-2 and is not anodized. Anodizing always causes a matte finish.
Quoted message said:
Shimano says their Dura Ace parts are anodized. They don't appear matte to me.
Quoted message said:
tinyurl.com682w
Quoted message said:
Campy parts are anodized. They don't appear matte to me.
campagnolo.comgroupsets.php
Quoted message said:
My polished Control Tech stem is anodized. It doesn't appear matte to me.
controltechbikes.com2002.asp
Quoted message said:
The clear anodize wheel parts that I have experience developing appeared non matte.
You may be right. I sampled one of my MA-2 rims and gave it a rub with Simichrome polish and it did
not affect the surface nor was there any aluminum on the cloth. However, if this is a thin anodizing
it should show cracks on a well used rim under edge lighting. There should be signs of chipping from
scratches caused by grit or spoke lacing. That is, there is no indication of surface hardness by
even the smallest surface blemish.
I am convinced these parts are clear alodine finished because there is no indication of a hard crust
on the MA-2 rims, new and used from years ago. On the other hand, my DuraAce and Campagnolo cranks
and chainwheels have a milky finish.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
As I said, I believe the translator or someone unclear on the process chose the words and they
are wrong.
Quoted message said:
The French wording appearing above the English wording in the link to the catalog page was
translated wrong?
Quoted message said:
Other wording in the same catalog: -colorless anodizing -silver anodizing -hard anodized
Quoted message said:
There are 30 rim offerings in the catalog I have. All of them are described as anodized. It would
seem to be an inconsistent story to sell one flavor of rim that wasn't anodized when the other 29
rims in the line were. Just doesn't seem like something that would be done.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
One way to test his is to see if the rim is an insulator by using it as a contact bridge for a
test bulb continuity tester.
Quoted message said:
So, why don't those with MA2's and a multi-meter just do the test and let us know the results?
I just did that and got my flashlight bulb to light using the shiny "anodized" surface as a return
path without high contact pressure or rubbing. Just a light contact.
Jobst Brandt [email hidden] Palo Alto CA

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