Hit and Run

Sarah Clatterbuck said:

My one collision with a car was in Mid-town Palo Alto,
California. I was commuting home by bike on my brand-new,
just built by me, Trek Y-foil. I was only commuting 2-3
days a week at that time, so I wasn't completely wise to
riding in traffic. I was on Middlefield Road, which is 2
lanes in each direction through a somewhat busy shopping
district.

They really need to redesign the lanes through Midtown.
Instead of 4 lanes, they should have two with wide
shoulders, and a turning lane down the middle. Drivers use
Middlefield as a thoroughfare and travel well over the 25mph
speed limit. I always ride right down the center of the
right hand lane and signal all my intentions, but it's still
a pretty nerve wracking experience.

For commuting, the Ellen Fletcher Bike Boulevard (Bryant
St.) is a much better alternative.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

In article <3g8vc.28341$3x.5282@attbi_s54>,

Claire Petersky said:

I rode in sort of a "letting it all go" mode in the
afternoon, feeling very easy-going about traffic and cars.
Maybe that's the head space I really need to be commuting
in these days.

I've noticed how the whole feel of traffic seems to
seasonally change at this time of year, becoming more
frenetic and urgent.

I'm glad your bike and yourself escaped unscathed.

My condolences about the water bottle.

cheers, Tom

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Pete said:

"Badger_South" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yes, certainly in the area of Great Neck Rd, and Little
Neck. Actual bike

paths, and

Quoted message said:

designated extra wide sidewalks. They're not striped the
whole way, just

at curb crossings.

Quoted message said:

In addition there are 'bike path' signs with bike icons
on them. It's

nice.

A sidewalk by any other name...

Pete

Yeah, it's true, still a sidewalk, but being extra wide,
and designated by "bike route" signs and ramp ups the
people here seem to be aware, both drivers and peds, and do
stop and look.

Agree, though, about the hazards of sidewalk riding - the
drivers are not usually looking there on turns and
intersections. Thus extra care is warranted.

Still, I find this (in comparison to Charlottesville) a bike
friendly town.

-Badger

Terry Morse said:

I always remember to lie quiet at first, waiting for the
inital shock to go away.

it would behoove you to move off the road before the car
behind the one that hit you also runs you over.

s/car/person and it applies to monday morning at work, also.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Rick Onanian said:

On 2 Jun 2004 11:45:31 -0700,

(Sarah Clatterbuck) said:

Now, I do the 'Miss Universe' wave whenever I see left
turners approaching on the other side - just to make
sure they know I'm there and going too fast for them to
turn in front of me. I've only ever had one person
ignore me so far.

Care to describe this wave?
--
Rick Onanian

First you straighten your tiara...

-Badger

After straightening my tiara - er helmet - I sit up nice and
tall on the saddle, raise my left arm so that the fleshy
part is parallel to the road and the forearm is at a 90
degree angle with hand pointed directly up and cupped
slightly. I then commence smiling and waving sequence for
the motorist. Smile, rotate at wrist, smile, return left arm
to handle bar and pedal like heck to get out of the way.

Sarah

Sarah Clatterbuck said:

After straightening my tiara - er helmet - I sit up nice
and tall on the saddle, raise my left arm so that the
fleshy part is parallel to the road and the forearm is at
a 90 degree angle with hand pointed directly up and
cupped slightly. I then commence smiling and waving
sequence for the motorist. Smile, rotate at wrist, smile,
return left arm to handle bar and pedal like heck to get
out of the way.

well, rick my first thought is that this won't work for
you .. but it might. the time they spend in shock could be
valuable if used towards getting away. stick around 'til
they recover, tho, and they'll use the resulting clarity
to downshift and get some torque when running their F-150
over your ass.

let me know how it works out.

my current will reads something like: "use all my money to
sue the [censored] who ran me over." .. you may want to try
something like that first.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

On 03 Jun 2004 17:22:24 GMT, David Reuteler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

well, rick my first thought is that this won't work for you
.. but it might. the time they spend in shock could be
valuable if used towards getting away. stick around 'til
they recover, tho, and they'll use the resulting clarity to
downshift and get some torque when running their F-150 over
your ass.

Maybe they should drive a GMC so they don't need to wait to
downshift... <G>

Quoted message said:

let me know how it works out.

I might try it. Shock value can be fun.

Quoted message said:

my current will reads something like: "use all my money to
sue the [censored] who ran me over." .. you may want to try
something like that first.

Bicyclist-motorist relations are pretty tame where I am.
Maybe you should move here.
--
Rick Onanian

Terry Morse said:

For commuting, the Ellen Fletcher Bike Boulevard (Bryant
St.) is a much better alternative.

I don't like it so much when I'm on my road bike. Between
Page Mill and Embarcadero it's full of bumps, broken up
concrete, badly patched holes, wide cracks, and even a few
areas where the top few inches of blacktop have torn off to
reveal the layer underneath (!). Dangerous, in my opinion.

Right now it's worse because there's intermittent
construction that sometimes blocks off traffic on Alma
entirely. The crews don't put up advisory detour signs,
which means that I sometimes run into the construction on
the next street up (Waverly) or face traffic on Alma (no fun
at all). Strangely enough, the crews don't appear to be
actually fixing the crappy pavement. Rather, they're making
it worse by putting in those damned steel trench plates.

I *am* somewhat amused that the construction crews put up
signs that say "Bike Lane Closed" even though Bryant Street
doesn't have a bike lane.

Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really careful
along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to cut me
off at intersections. At least once a week, one will blow
past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull into the
intersection in front of me. Typically I'll yell and ring my
bell--and then half the time the idiot will stop *directly
in my path*. The rest of the time the idiot will swear at me
and continue across. (Why isn't there ever a cop around when
I need one?)

Of course, this is made worse because of the two or three
intersections where there are hedges growing right up to the
edge of the sidewalk bordering the intersection. They kill
visibility and I have no idea why Palo Alto allows
homeowners to maintain such hazards.
--
[email hidden] - [email hidden] - [email hidden] -
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Right now it's worse because there's intermittent
construction that sometimes blocks off traffic on Alma
entirely.

There is no whining in bicycling. Deal with it and quit your
damn whining.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY
MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------ __________306.350.357.38-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]__________

Ben Pfaff said:

Terry Morse said:

For commuting, the Ellen Fletcher Bike Boulevard (Bryant
St.) is a much better alternative.

I don't like it so much when I'm on my road bike. Between
Page Mill and Embarcadero it's full of bumps

The only really bad section is two blocks long, between N.
California and, um, Seale (I think). If you ride it
enough, you learn to avoid the bigger holes. Bumpy
pavement isn't dangerous, just annoying. It's still faster
than any of the other streets, with their requisite stop
signs every two blocks.

Quoted message said:

Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really
careful along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to
cut me off at intersections. At least once a week, one
will blow past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull
into the intersection in front of me.

The same thing happens to me regularly. You just have to
watch out for them. Motorists don't seem to be tuned into
cyclists going 20 on a residential street. Screaming madely
and braking hard seems to get their attention.

Quoted message said:

Of course, this is made worse because of the two or three
intersections where there are hedges growing right up to
the edge of the sidewalk bordering the intersection. They
kill visibility and I have no idea why Palo Alto allows
homeowners to maintain such hazards.

Complaining to the City works wonders. I've sent e-mails in
the past and have gotten speedy results. One homeowner who
used to park his RV right at an intersection, blocking view
of the stop sign and cross traffic, now parks around the
corner. Much better.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>,

Ben Pfaff said:

Right now it's worse because there's intermittent
construction that sometimes blocks off traffic on Alma
entirely. The crews don't put up advisory detour signs,
which means that I sometimes run into the construction
on the next street up (Waverly) or face traffic on Alma
(no fun at all). Strangely enough, the crews don't
appear to be actually fixing the crappy pavement.
Rather, they're making it worse by putting in those
damned steel trench plates.

'Tis the season for street repair.

Quoted message said:

I *am* somewhat amused that the construction crews put up
signs that say "Bike Lane Closed" even though Bryant
Street doesn't have a bike lane.

Yeah, that sounds pretty stupid. OTOH, I guess it
makes drivers more wary of cyclists if they think a
bike lane exists.

Quoted message said:

Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really
careful along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to
cut me off at intersections. At least once a week, one
will blow past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull
into the intersection in front of me.

Look. It's a Law of Nature that whenever someone, whether
rider or driver, wants to go past ya, they'll do it at the
first bottleneck or intersection, or whenever someone's
coming the other way so they have to crowd you to get back
into your stream. They /won't/ give you a chance to duck a
little right to let them by. They /want/ to pretend you're
in their way, and they'll time their pass at the worst
possible moment, even though there's a refuge a few feet
ahead where you could duck right a little bit, and give 'em
some room. But they won't give you that chance, no matter
how hard you sprintingly hole-shoot it.

Know that it happens, and prepare for it.

Quoted message said:

Typically I'll yell and ring my bell--and then half the
time the idiot will stop *directly in my path*.

I've encountered drivers in front of me who will stop and
wait at a stop sign until they see me, behind them, put a
foot down. Self-styled traffic enforcers. I just give it to
them, and I don't bust a blood vessel over it. If they have
to resort to such tactics, they're the ones with the morbid
hypertension.

Quoted message said:

The rest of the time the idiot will swear at me and
continue across. (Why isn't there ever a cop around when I
need one?)

If you're not clobbered, you don't need one. Espcecially if
you're about to do some clobbering and Irish-beating-out-of,
yourself. If you're not so inclined, just let it pass. After
all, you're really no worse off than before the incident.

Quoted message said:

Of course, this is made worse because of the two or three
intersections where there are hedges growing right up to
the edge of the sidewalk bordering the intersection. They
kill visibility and I have no idea why Palo Alto allows
homeowners to maintain such hazards.

There's a good way of dealing with blind intersections,
but it doesn't involve nonchalantly sticking your ass in
harm's way.

cheers, Tom

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Tom Keats said:

I've encountered drivers in front of me who will stop and
wait at a stop sign until they see me, behind them, put a
foot down. Self-styled traffic enforcers. I just give it
to them, and I don't bust a blood vessel over it.

If you want to have some fun, maintain a track stand until
you wear out their patience.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 20:41:10 -0700, Ben Pfaff <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Even when I'm on my mountain bike, I'm always really
careful along Bryant Street, because idiot drivers love to
cut me off at intersections. At least once a week, one will
blow past a stop sign, without stopping, and pull into the
intersection in front of me. Typically I'll yell and ring
my bell--and then half the time the idiot will stop
*directly in my path*. The rest of the time the idiot will
swear at me and continue across. (Why isn't there ever a
cop around when I need one?)

Hi Ben,

Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the only
two responses addressing your concern about safety on Bryant
took the approach of "blame the cyclist" -- amazing that a
cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

Anyway, the reason I'm posting is that I wanted to support
you on this one. I actually stopped commuting on Bryant a
couple of years ago in favor of an alternate route because,
after several years of commuting on it, I decided it was too
unsafe and unfair to my family to continue. I had a "slight
scare" perhaps once every week or two and a real scary "near
miss" perhaps once every couple months. It was always
exactly the same. I'd be doing 15-20 on Bryant, which has no
stop signs most of the way, and some cross-traffic car would
jump out as I approached the intersection and nearly hit me.
Sometimes they wouldn't stop at all (all crossing streets
have stop signs), and sometimes they would stop but not
look, or not look until it was too late anyway. Anyway,
*most* of the time the driver would profusely apologize,
sometimes even getting out of their car to apologize, but on
occasion a driver would scream obscenities at me (after
nearly killing me). I even had one person blow through their
stop sign, nearly hit me, and then yell at me asking me if I
was going to stop (when of course I didn't have a stop
sign!) One time there was a man working in his yard when I
nearly got hit and he said to me, "You have no idea how
often I see that happen." -- proof that it is a real
problem. I tried wearing bright yellow and tuning my front
brake to squeal in a panic stop to help cars avoid me, but
in the end I decided it was too unsafe to do twice a day
every day. Now I take a route that is slightly slower but
way safer -- only one "near miss" in the last 12 months that
I can think of.

I actually don't think that (most) drivers are trying to be
aggressive toward cyclists. It's really just that they are
in a hurry to get home and they aren't programmed to look
for cyclists. While the lack of stop signs on Bryant is
great, it's not worth the risk for me.

So I expect that many members of this group will now
assert that I'm a bad bicyclist etc but I wanted to post
anyway because I think this is a real problem. I even e-
mailed the city about it a while back to both complain
about the pavement between Santa Rosa and N. California
and to let them know about the cross traffic danger,
particularly at Churchhill where there is a lot of cross
traffic at rush hour.

CLB

Quoted message said:

I'd be doing 15-20 on Bryant, which has no stop signs most
of the way, and some cross-traffic car would jump out as I
approached the intersection and nearly hit me. Sometimes
they wouldn't stop at all (all crossing streets have stop
signs), and sometimes they would stop but not look, or not
look until it was too late anyway.

I see the same problem here. It seems that since there isn't
one of those double- wide white 'stop' bars painted on the
road, motorists think they should zoom up and nose out into
the main road - some drivers use this to intimidate - and
they don't even bother to look for peds or bikers before
they 'slow & go'.

Gotta just ride ultra-defensively. Seems your decision
to change routes was prudent. Good luck and safe biking
to ya! ;-)

-Badger

Quoted message said:

Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the only
two responses addressing your concern about safety on
Bryant took the approach of "blame the cyclist" -- amazing
that a cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

It just demonstrates the widespread acceptance of the
"victim mentality" imprinted upon cyclists in the USA
(United States of Automobiles) by the car-driving public:
"it's your own damn fault that you're reviled and injured,
riding those toys in the street!"

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace. It's not about
power -- it's about grace. It's not about knowing your enemy
-- it's about knowing yourself.

Someone said:

Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the only
two responses addressing your concern about safety on
Bryant took the approach of "blame the cyclist" -- amazing
that a cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

Um, if you're referring to my post, I did not blame the
cyclist. I said you have to watch out for the motorists on
cross streets. Assume they are not going to stop, and if
they stop, assume they are going to not yield right of way.
In a perfect world with perfect drivers, one would not have
to do this, but there it is.

Near misses are just that. Bryant St. is not the site of
cyclist carnage that one might expect from the stories
told here.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

Someone else said:

Someone said:

Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the
only two responses addressing your concern about safety
on Bryant took the approach of "blame the cyclist" --
amazing that a cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

It just demonstrates the widespread acceptance of the
"victim mentality" imprinted upon cyclists in the USA
(United States of Automobiles) by the car-driving public:
"it's your own damn fault that you're reviled and injured,
riding those toys in the street!"

Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in near miss
situations with law breaking motorists on the same road,
there's something wrong with the cyclist. Some cars roll
through stop signs, others don't yield right of way, still
others have "cyclist blindless". Those are the facts. Learn
to anticipate and manage these risks, or get off the road.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA bike.terrymorse.combike.terrymorse.comOpen ↗

Zoot Katz <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Last week on Georgia Street I was presented the perfect
opportunity to take out a brat in a SAAB. She right hooked
me but I saw setting up, weighed the options and made a
decision to not throw a hip check into her rear quarter
panel and start screaming for my lawyer.

She deserved it but I was on a different mission.

Zoot, your self control and restraint is Zen like. Didn't
you even kick the rear panel on passing?

LioNiNoiL_a t_Ne t s c a pE_D 0 T_Ne T said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[People in this country blame cyclists.]

Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in near
miss situations with law breaking motorists on the same
road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.

See what I mean?

I think some people blame cyclists for getting in trouble,
but these posts have not. I think they merely claim that
it's stupid to ride on roads or do things which put you at
risk (passing on the right for example).

Right or wrong doesn't matter, as long as you're not dead.
You have to some expectation that people occasionally run
stop signs and red lights. I used to be the kind of person
who would go through fresh green lights at speed until my
car was totalled. I did nothing wrong, but I got hit
anyways. I would be a fool to continue doing it even though
it's my right.

If certain roads are prone to accident, you should avoid
them, or at least be more careful when you're on them. On
the side, you could lobby your local police station to watch
out for more stop sign violations (by cars).

Jeff

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, as is unfortunately typical of this group, the
only two responses addressing your concern about safety
on Bryant took the approach of "blame the cyclist" --
amazing that a cycling newsgroup could have such a bias!

It just demonstrates the widespread acceptance of the
"victim mentality" imprinted upon cyclists in the USA
(United States of Automobiles) by the car-driving public:
"it's your own damn fault that you're reviled and
injured, riding those toys in the street!"

Baloney. If a cyclist continues to get himself in near
miss situations with law breaking motorists on the same
road, there's something wrong with the cyclist.

See what I mean?

--
It's not about anger -- it's about peace. It's not about
power -- it's about grace. It's not about knowing your enemy
-- it's about knowing yourself.