Struggling on climbs - big time....

Katanga-Man said:

Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet 2.
I am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile Heskey
than Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up with
almost anyone on the flat but when it comes to hills I
just die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since I am 34
inch waist which is not bad at my size I don;t think. My
point is that do you experts think I am still carrying too
much weight? I think I am but I would really aprreciate
some opinions and advice and encouragement or URL's I
could read and research. I love cycling a lot but my
performance on hills is getting me down. How much weight
do I need to drop guys?

I'd say weight is a big factor. I've got a mate who's 11
stone or so, I'm about 4 stone heavier than him. I can go
just as fast as him on the flat, but he can get away from me
up hills. OTOH, I get more back going down the other side. A
lot of hill climbing is mental / technique based too. Lots
of research has been done that says if you're expecting a
hill to come up, you'll go up it faster and feel less tired
than if you're not.

Katanga-Man said:

Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet 2.
I am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile Heskey
than Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up with
almost anyone on the flat but when it comes to hills I
just die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since I am 34
inch waist which is not bad at my size I don;t think. My
point is that do you experts think I am still carrying too
much weight? I think I am but I would really aprreciate
some opinions and advice and encouragement or URL's I
could read and research. I love cycling a lot but my
performance on hills is getting me down. How much weight
do I need to drop guys? Many thanks. KM

I'm 6"2' 16st and by the sound of it much the same build.
One of the guys I go with is 11st. He beats me up the hills
but not by too much - If i loaded his bike with 5st (70lb)
of weights would he be able to get up the hill?

Remember most of the rugby world cup squad are obes by the
standard measures!

pk

Doki said:

Katanga-Man said:

Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet 2.
I am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile Heskey
than Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up with
almost anyone on the flat but when it comes to hills I
just die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since I am 34
inch waist which is not bad at my size I don;t think. My
point is that do you experts think I am still carrying too
much weight? I think I am but I would really aprreciate
some opinions and advice and encouragement or URL's I
could read and research. I love cycling a lot but my
performance on hills is getting me down. How much weight
do I need to drop guys?

I'd say weight is a big factor. I've got a mate who's 11
stone or so, I'm about 4 stone heavier than him. I can go
just as fast as him on the flat, but he can get away from
me up hills. OTOH, I get more back going down the other
side. A lot of hill climbing is mental / technique based
too. Lots of research has been done that says if you're
expecting a hill to come up, you'll go up it faster and
feel less tired than if you're not.

Yeah, I'd agree with the mental stuff. Once I've conquered a
hill it's usually not *quite* as painful to do it the second
time, all things being equal. If I know what it's like, I
know if I can get away with stomping up it before my
heart/legs give out, or if it's a take it easier and twiddle
up it slowly type.

On the other hand, it's annoying to be overweight (yes, me,
not a comment on you at all) and have to lug all the flab up
a hill. Very hard work to do it. Of course if you're lugging
muscle up the hill it's a different story ;-)

I remember reading in Lance's 'It's not about the bike' book
that he said post cancer he was a much better cyclist than
pre, simply because of the weight he lost, especially off
the upper body, that he never put back on again, and he
attributed it to the energy you have to put in to move
heavier object up a hill - if you're hauling lighter up,
that leaves you more energy in reserve, though obviously you
want muscles capable of doing the work/speed you want, just
ones not oversized for that job.

Do you do anything else for exercise, or is it just cycling
(thinking of weightlifting etc) that could be contributing
to lots of muscle mass that might not be 'needed' for
cycling performance?

--

Velvet

Katanga-Man <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet 2.
: I am the "muscular"

: my performance on hills is getting me down. How much
: weight do I need to drop guys?

Weight to drop? To be really good uphill? About 6 stone.

More reasonably, losing a stone or so while retaining muscle
would make a large difference. On the short, steep stuff you
should be able to use that muscle to power up them. On the
long hills, you're never going to be superquick with that
build but you can get quicker if you work at it.

For comparision, I'm 1" shorter and 6 stone lighter. Most
road racers are 10-12 stone. Over 12 stone the extra muscle
doesn't seem to compensate for the extra weight.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

No doubt that weight and technique count for a lot, but
there may be other factors to consider. As a taller rider,
you'll have a larger bike. It may not be appreciably heavier
but it will be larger. It may have a longer wheelbase which
makes climbing harder. It may have a different geometry too.

With these differences in mind, perhaps you should be asking
a different question. Rather than thinking about why you
don't climb, why not focus on your strengths on the flatter
ground. Very few of riders are all rounders. You could be an
excellent endurance distance rider or a sprinter. Just don't
live in the mountains ;-)

======

"Doki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2jgdvoF10lrg3U1@uni-
berlin.de...

Quoted message said:

Katanga-Man said:

Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet
2. I am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile
Heskey than Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up
with almost anyone on the flat but when it comes to
hills I just die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since
I am 34 inch waist which is not bad at my size I don;t
think. My point is that do you experts think I am still
carrying too much weight? I think I am but I would
really aprreciate some opinions and advice and
encouragement or URL's I could read and research. I love
cycling a lot but my performance on hills is getting me
down. How much weight do I need to drop guys?

I'd say weight is a big factor. I've got a mate who's 11
stone or so, I'm about 4 stone heavier than him. I can go
just as fast as him on the flat, but he can get away from
me up hills. OTOH, I get more back going down the other
side. A lot of hill climbing is mental / technique based
too. Lots

of

Quoted message said:

research has been done that says if you're expecting a
hill to come up, you'll go up it faster and feel less
tired than if you're not.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Katanga-Man
Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet 2. I
am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile Heskey than
Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up with almost
anyone on the flat but when it comes to hills I just
die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since I am 34 inch
waist which is not bad at my size I don;t think. My
point is that do you experts think I am still carrying
too much weight? I think I am but I would really
aprreciate some opinions and advice and encouragement or
URL's I could read and research. I love cycling a lot
but my performance on hills is getting me down. How much
weight do I need to drop guys? Many thanks. KM

When climbing hills, especially steep ones, the effects of wind resistance become negligible; it's all about lifting mass and so heavier riders are at a disadvantage. Big riders never make great climbers so, to some extent, you'll just have to accept that climbing will not be your forte and that your bulk will be an advantage at other times.

I am 10 stone and 5 foot 7 and I go up hills pretty well. You are 70% heavier than I am and so your body has to generate 70% more power just to climb at the same rate as me. For your proportions to match mine (which is pretty slim, I have to admit) you would have to come down by about 5 stone.

That's a tall order. Every pound counts, though.

Ian

Katanga-Man said:

Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet 2.
I am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile Heskey
than Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up with
almost anyone on the flat but when it comes to hills I
just die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since I am 34
inch waist which is not bad at my size I don;t think. My
point is that do you experts think I am still carrying too
much weight? I think I am but I would really aprreciate
some opinions and advice and encouragement or URL's I
could read and research. I love cycling a lot but my
performance on hills is getting me down. How much weight
do I need to drop guys? Many thanks. KM

I have lost nearly 1 stone in the last 6 months and am
climbing better for
it. Its not a given that a light rider will be a good
climber, sure it helps but is not just about the
size of you.

Katanga-Man said:

Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet
2. I am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile
Heskey than Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up
with almost anyone on the flat but when it comes to
hills I just
die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since I am 34 inch
waist which is not bad at my size I don;t think. My
point is that do you experts think I am still carrying
too much weight? I think I am but I would really
aprreciate some opinions and advice and encouragement
or URL's I could read and research. I love cycling a
lot but my performance on hills is getting me down.
How much weight do I need to drop guys?

The BMI of professional cyclists is usually around 19 or 20.
Yours is about 30. You could do well time trialling on a
flat course or at closed circuit racing (motor racing tracks
are rarely very hilly), but you'd have to lose colossal
amounts of weight to be a good climber, and you'd probably
find that a lot of your power went with it.

Being on the large size need not be a hindrance on hills,
just look at riders such as Indurain! The key is to have a
good power to weight ratio. For the non elite athlete this
means having a body fat of ideally under 10%, certainly
under 15%, so have your percentage body fat calculated and
if need be look to reducing your weight.

It is also important to develop an efficient climbing style.
Being powerful an 'out of the saddle' style (but still
keeping the body stable) might work as you should be able to
use a larger gear and your upper body and back muscles. That
said don't over gear, especially on a long climb where you
have to sit down as this uses more 'fast twitch' fibres,
rather then the endurance related red fibres, so raising the
level of lactate and giving the muscles less chance to
'cycle' efficiently. (You only use a small percentage of
each muscle on each pedal stroke, with these fibres
recuperating whilst others are used. At high loads more
fibres are recruited and so have less chance to recover
before being recruited again).

Perhaps most importantly avoid going into the red, don't try
to stay with a faster climber from the bottom of a long
climb, just set your own pace. If you are already deep in
oxygen debt and swimming in a sea of lactic acid halfway up
a climb the second half will take for ever and seem like
purgatory! Pace yourself, keep just below your anaerobic
threshold then go for it as you reach the top- assuming
there will be an opportunity to recover. If the road is flat
at the top don't give it your all until you are on the flat.

It is true that climbing is a state of mind. Be prepared for
the effort and the suffering and control all those bad
voices telling you everyone else is having an easier time of
it. If you are fit and able to apply yourself it is
surprising how fast a big rider can climb- if you don't mind
suffering! I have always being a bit heavy for climbing and
yet in my racing days when super motivated I was able to
pull out a good ride in a race that included some very hard
Scottish climbs. That said at the top of one I was so much
in oxygen debt if felt like someone was pushing my eyeballs
in and I was getting tunnel vision!

Zog The Undeniable said:

The BMI of professional cyclists is usually around 19 or
20. Yours is about 30. You could do well time trialling on
a flat course or at closed circuit racing (motor racing
tracks are rarely very hilly), but you'd have to lose
colossal amounts of weight to be a good climber, and you'd
probably find that a lot of your power went with it.

Lance managed it but elective chemotherapy to be able to
cycle better is a bit extreme

Tony

Will H' of said:

No doubt that weight and technique count for a lot, but
there may be other factors to consider. As a taller rider,
you'll have a larger bike. It may not be appreciably
heavier but it will be larger. It may have a longer
wheelbase which makes climbing harder. It may have a
different geometry too.

How does a longer wheelbase make climbing harder? Or
conversely, how does the short wheelbase on my bike for a
shortie make it easier?
--
Boredom is… a vital problem for the moralist, since half the sins of mankind
are caused by the fear of it. Bertrand Russell
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <sandbenders.demon.co.ukindex.htmOpen ↗

Katanga-Man said:

Hi, I am a big lad - 16 stone 8 lbs (105 kg) and 6 feet
2. I am the "muscular" type - a lot more like Emile
Heskey than Lance Armstrong. I find that I can keep up
with almost anyone on the flat but when it comes to
hills I just
die..... I am not a lard [censored] either since I am 34 inch
waist which is not bad at my size I don;t think. My
point is that do you experts think I am still carrying
too much weight?

It doesn't take an "expert" to diagnose that, given your
figures above!

Quoted message said:

I think I am but I would really aprreciate some opinions
and advice and encouragement or URL's I could read and
research. I love cycling a lot but my performance on
hills is getting me down. How much weight do I need to
drop guys?

About 4 stone would be a good start. Probably 6 stone if you
actually want to be fast up hills.

James

In "]news:[email hidden],
MSeries <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I have lost nearly 1 stone in the last 6 months and am
climbing better for it.

Beat you: I lost 5kg in the last fortnight. Back on the
steroids for me.

A

(Howard) said:

Being on the large size need not be a hindrance on hills,
just look at riders such as Indurain! The key is to have a
good power to weight ratio. For the non elite athlete this
means having a body fat of ideally under 10%, certainly
under 15%, so have your percentage body fat calculated and
if need be look to reducing your weight.

I think it's more than that tho'... to climb well you have
to have the power mostly in your legs - not in your upper
body. Compare and contrast the build of good hill climbing
cyclists with, for example, good rowers. Both will have a
low percentage of body fat, but the latter will have more
upper body strength.

"Katanga-Man" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My point is that do you experts think I am still carrying
too much weight?

Even thugh not an expert I gave my opinion last time you
asked which was that you are carrying circa 20kgs more than
your opponents/keen riding buddies up every hill. Think
about it: 20 litres of water = 2 1/2 buckets, up every hill!
You may have a muscular upper body which might be great for
rowing but is mainly dead weight for peddaling.
--
Regards, Pete

"Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Being on the large size need not be a hindrance on hills,
just look at riders such as Indurain!

Who was 80kgs which is 25kgs less than our friend who is a
similar height.

arrakis.espersonaling.htmOpen ↗

--
Regards, Pete

Zog The Undeniable said:

The BMI of professional cyclists is usually around 19 or
20. Yours is about 30. You could do well time trialling on
a flat course or at closed circuit racing (motor racing
tracks are rarely very hilly),

You should try going round Oulton or Cadwell sometime.

--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
team-ukrm.co.ukteam-ukrm.co.ukOpen ↗ Windy's "little soldier"

Howard said:

Being on the large size need not be a hindrance on hills,
just look at riders such as Indurain!

Exactly.

A rather skinny, not particularly tall man is considered
abnormally large as a cyclist, and his feats are considered
noteworthy as an example of what "large size" people can
achieve. He's only "Big Mig" cos the guy beside him is a
midget. Had he taken up rowing, he'd probably have made a
pretty good lightweight.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. ne.jphomeOpen ↗

Ambrose Nankivell said:

In "]news:[email hidden], MSeries
<[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I have lost nearly 1 stone in the last 6 months and am
climbing better for it.

Beat you: I lost 5kg in the last fortnight. Back on the
steroids for
me.

A

Thats 2.5 stones in the last 18 months, due to healthy
eating and lots of cycling.