Bikes Running Red Lights

Andrew Swan said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

<soapbox>
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
</soapbox>

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars!
:-)

&roo

Forgot option (j): depends if any of my mates will rag me for stopping

&roo

Andrew Swan <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed

--
Trevor S

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
-Albert Einstein

I never run red lights for the reasons you mentioned. I obey all traffic
rules.

Peter

Andrew Swan said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:
((i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

As you mention, this isn't illegal.

I do cop to having done "rolling stop signs" on the bike trails but upon
reflection, have decided it's pretty hypocritical of me to run those and
then [censored] about people on bikes ignoring the rules they don't like.
Solution: I'm giving up the sections of the cycling path where these
stop signs are every 200 m through a residential neighbourhood and
sticking to the road ways where I won't be inconvenienced by the
continuous stop and go thing.

Hope you've got room on that soapbox for 2 because I'm right
there with you.

--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.

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(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed

ALSO

If there is no traffic in sight and I have my wits about me (not tired
or pre-occupied), I'll coast on through.

That implies paying close attention and not assuming safety.

--

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Nice Thread...

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have some idiot
on another bike behind me catch up and roll through the intersection.
Seriously - what's wrong with these people 😕 Now each of the
cars waiting at the red to go through the lights is likely a bit more
agitated with “those damn cyclists" and I’m left to contend with them
when the light turns green.

On a positive side I've found it somewhat therapeutic to then catch up
to my ignorant fellow cyclist, inform him of the purpose of a red light,
and leave him staring at my back tire....:p

--

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(b) or more to the point, no traffic anywhere, deserted, I'll ride thru.
(h) bunch riders consider themselves as one large vehicle, much like
when a motorist is left waiting to turn in the middle, the lights go red
then he has the right to clear the intersection.

Lots of cyclist run red lights infront of lines of motorist tho. Pretty
bad. I'm with the motorists.

GK

Andrew Swan said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

<soapbox>
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
</soapbox>

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

Andrew Swan said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:
(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of
(i) or not)
(j) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)
<soapbox> My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you
ran a red was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your
money/health if you get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you.
Like it or not, 80% of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the
bell curve) will show cyclists respect and consideration in direct
proportion to the regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules.
You can't expect motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to
yourself) if you flout your obligations on the road. </soapbox>
P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few
lights (and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why
you can't, if you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means
we get better treatment in general? I know we are all equal road
users in the eye of the law, but the reality is when push comes
to shove, 1000kg of metal beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the
goodwill we can generate, because if it turns into a jungle, we
are the mewling baby birds on the forest floor.
P.P. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)
&roo

I live in Palo Alto, Ca, USA, a.k.a., "on the peninsula". The main
artery for bikes is Foothill Expressway. Access is limited to main
streets that cross Foothill. Thus, there are more than a few lights. I
always stop at the lights. There's too much traffic to blow off a red
light. I also refrain from making a U-turn down the intersecting street
to dodge the red light. People have been killed trying that. Most of the
intersections can sense bikes in the left turn lane. Some can't. On the
ones that can't, I treat them as a stop sign when making a left turn.
Even that can get tricky when the volume of motor traffic is up.

In general, traffic is too heavy around here to run red lights. The odds
of being caught by a cop or an oncoming car are too great. It's not
worth the exposure.

Stop signs are a slightly different case. On four way stops I roll up
to the intersections slowly so as to be able to stop if I spot
something. If not, I roll into the intersection without touching the
ground with my foot. Most of the time I'm the only one at the
intersection so, why come out of the clips? When traffic is heavy or
the intersection is blind, I always stop. On two way stops where I have
the right of way, I don't assume I'm going to get it if there are cars
present or the corners are blind.

There are a few intersections on popular routes where the local
police/sheriffs hang out on weekends to site cyclists who run stop
signs. They will site cyclists and they can be rather picky about
whether touching the foot is a stop or coming to a complete stop is a
stop or hovering in the clips for a few seconds is a stop. It's cheaper
to stop with a foot flat on the ground.

Most of the drivers around here fit uder the hump in the bell curve.
Many of the drivers are cyclists themselves. It's that three sigma prat
that keeps me honest.

--
A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy. –Lord Halifax

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Georgetown_Jay said:

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have
some idiot on another bike behind me catch up and roll through
the intersection.

What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
times.

John

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

Never ever ever.

(1) I want all other road users to respect me as a rightful user of the
road, and to do so, it's important that I follow the rules that they need to
abide by.

(2) I'm kinda lucky to be here today after being hit (in a car) by a drunk
running a red light late one night. Came through a crossroads (Melbournians:
corner of Springfield Rd and Blackburn Rd) and hit the front right guard of
my car, spinning me around a few times while he speared off into a power
pole. A few feet further and it would have been the driver's door that he
hit, not the guard. I was very lucky to walk away with a few cracked ribs
and a thumping headache.

(3) Accidents happen at intersections, not when you're idling along some
country lane "Famous Five" style. Life is precious, people. We gotta take
care out there.

I have only ever run red lights, when it is dark about 5 in the morning
and there is sight nor sign of another living thing or motorised thing.
I know it is still illegal but I feel that if I obey the road rules then
I will get treated better by drivers because they are going to see I
obey road rules.

People that usually coast past me I then usually pass them again anyway,
they are just fooling themselves and one day the are going to do it, not
see something and it is going to kill/injure either themselves or
someone else.

its just not worth it and packs should stick the rules more than
anybody else.

the thing about red lights and the sensors not detecting the bike really
does give me the irks.... so what do you do wait for a car to come along
? I dont think so.

Mikey

--

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Andrew Swan <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

[snip]

I love (h). Some of the excuses you get. But in reality, it's "I'm a
hack at he back half of the bunch, and if it gets away 'cos I stop at
a red light, I'm too much of a hack to power on to catch it, and thus
I can't pretend to partake in the glory sprint at the end of the ride"

I only run a red light when (h) or (i) apply, except when I'm making a left
turn. In which case, I also run the light if (f) and (g) apply. Not sure if
you're allowed to do this in ther states but you are only supposed to do
this in SA if the intersection is appropriately signed. I tend to treat all
of them as signed....

In the case of (i), I predict this occuring on the unavoidable intersections
that I know don't sense my bike and treat them as a give way sign when ther
are no cars to set them off.

"Andrew Swan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

<soapbox>
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
</soapbox>

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

MikeyOz said:

I have only ever run red lights, when it is dark about 5 in the morning
and there is sight nor sign of another living thing or motorised thing.
I know it is still illegal but I feel that if I obey the road rules then
I will get treated better by drivers because they are going to see I
obey road rules.
People that usually coast past me I then usually pass them again anyway,
they are just fooling themselves and one day the are going to do it, not
see something and it is going to kill/injure either themselves or
someone else.
its just not worth it and packs should stick the rules more than
anybody else.
the thing about red lights and the sensors not detecting the bike really
does give me the irks.... so what do you do wait for a car to come along
? I dont think so.
Mikey

Firstly Good Thread

I, like others think that we should be law abiding. However, there have
been times when I have crossed the line, pun intended, especially
waiting for green arrows ...those detectors are killers.

I agree with those other riders that say if we are wanting respect by
motorists we should be seen to be upholding the law and not flouting it
by cruising on through red lights.

--

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Andrew Swan said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:
<snip>
&roo

I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
pedestrian crossings...

Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down a
hill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side and
sure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.
Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
of crossing the road.

Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentioned
above... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or several
in their direction.

So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone always
stop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?

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Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car drivers
anyway.
I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing on a
moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green man to
appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping, then
started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its horn,
swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

"troyq" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andrew Swan said:

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ask, do you run red lights:
<snip>
&roo

I know a "red light" is a "red light" but im interested to know if
people treat red lights differently in different circumstances, such as
pedestrian crossings...

Case in point, this morning on my way to work I was cruising down a
hill about to begin the few hundred metre climb up the other side and
sure enough the pedestrian lights go red just before i get there.
Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
of crossing the road.

Of course I stopped, for all the reasons everyone else has mentioned
above... but I was very tempted to continue, and spray a word or several
in their direction.

So back to my point, a red light is a red light but does everyone always
stop (and remain stopped) at pedestrian lights?

--

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Specially when it's a 4WD that's just stopped to deliver a child at school,
and is turning into a major road.
"John Henderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Georgetown_Jay" wrote:

What's worse is stopping my bike at a red light, and having a
motorist behind me ignore it and go straight through (admittedly
there's been negligible traffic about). It's happened a few
times.

John

"troyq" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Normally, no problem, wait for pedestrians... however it turns out to
be school kids pressing the button while walking by with no intention
of crossing the road.

I would roll through it. Depends if there were cars stopped there
also. I always stop if there are cars around but if not and the
intersection is clear (easier for cyclists to tell this than cars) I
would roll on through.
I generally try and set a good example on the bike because if
something happens, I was following the law and it will be the
other person's fault (hopefully). e.g. I can ride all the way to
work without lights just fine, but I will use them to 1) stop
drivers having a sook because I'm not using lights and 2)
if there is an accident, the other party will not be able to get
out of paying for it by claiming I was breaking the law.

If the streets are deserted then I'll go through. At a reduced
bike speed there's never been anything I didn't see before
entering an intersection.
I think the only time I will go through red, while cars or
people are present would be in a bunch. That's always
tricky - half the people want to stop for the light the
other half will go through - I've experience a couple of
interesting bunch splits with this confusion.

I'm also guilty of riding on footpaths.
Hell, I've even ridden a bike without a helmet! Oooh!

Before I started regular commuting I would break many
more rules though so at least I'm improving :-P

I don't think what we do really makes a difference to
drivers though. They break the law too and get just
as annoyed with other drivers breaking the law.

What about speed limits on a bike? Who here sees a
60kph sign on a nice long downhill and actually slows
to 60?
I bet a lot of the people replying to this thread claiming
they never break any law have exceeded the limit in a
40/40/60 kph zone.

Does everyone here indicate, EVERY time? What about
if taking your hand off the bars would negatively effect
your balance/steering ability and jeopardise your safety?

Actually, has everyone here read EVERY road rule that
applies to bicycles? I don't even know where to find 'em
and frankly I'm more interested in staying alive than reading
up on road laws.

Oh, another one.. what about drafting vehicles? Anyone
sat on a truck for more than 200m? (or something like
that - like I said I don't read the law books). I've seen
something about 'drafting is naughty' before...

Hmm.. that was a bit of a rant.. sorry, bad day.

hippy
who is still alive after ~15 years riding on the road and
is sure he obeys more rules than a lot of people - many
Beach Rd riders for example!

"Liz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Does everyone always stop at pedestrian lights? NO! Well not car

drivers

Quoted message said:

anyway.
I went for a walk the other day and came to a pedestrian only crossing

on a

Quoted message said:

moderately busy road. Pushed the button, waited for the little green

man to

Quoted message said:

appear, checked to see that the approaching car really was stopping,

then

Quoted message said:

started to cross. Then another car came up from behind, beeped its

horn,

Quoted message said:

swerved past the stopped car and continued full speed through the
intersection. Gave me quite a fright.

Join the club.. I see drivers go through red lights almost every
cycle change at the intersection near work. Myself and my
workmates have occasionaly been in front of these d&*k
heads as they speed through. Quite different to rolling through
an empty ped crossing at 5kph.

hippy