Torque wrenches

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Everett said:

We are variable creatures. Torque wrenches are not.

Any tool is as good as the human using it. To be of any use, a torque
wrench must be properly calibrated, adjusted and interpreted. There's
plenty of variability in this process.

The A&P comparison is interesting but not terribly relevant. The need for
precision is somewhat different when vast sums of money and lives are
directly at stake. Bike fasteners are different animals, and on the most
critical of them--the quick release--a torque wrench is no help at all.
You either know how it's supposed to feel or you don't.

That said, a torque wrench won't hurt things any on most bike fasteners,
but it will greatly slow jobs such as anchoring a brake cable. The only
interface in which one could make a genuine case for a torque wrench is
the crank bolts. So far, I've settled for tightening the [censored] out of 'em.
We'll see if that works.

If it doesn't, the failure isn't particularly catastrophic. The cranks
rattle a little, then rattle a lot. If I were to keep riding the bike at
that point, there might be problems, but I don't expect it'll get that far
gone.
--
---
"I never had to pretend I felt the lyrics. I could always relate to the words."
--Teddy Pendergrass

Tom Sherman said:

I was thinking of Carlo Abarth. I would be willing to put up with a
Simca Abarth if someone donated one to me.
<http://www.michaelp.org/photos/cars/winehist2000/simca_abarth.jpg>

Wow. Never saw anything like that. I wonder if Mr Chapman
had anything to do with it?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

eric h wrote:
The only

Quoted message said:

interface in which one could make a genuine case for a torque wrench is
the crank bolts. So far, I've settled for tightening the [censored] out of 'em.

A woman who worked for me twisted the heads off crank bolts.
More than once.

"tightening the [censored] out of them" is a pretty wide range.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[email hidden] (Gary Young) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I never denied that a torque wrench is nearly essential for doing a good
job of installing an automobile engine's cylinder head, and for other
applications involving multiple bolts with crushable gaskets, but this
application does not arise in the bicycle world.

<snip>

It seems to me that I started hearing about torque wrenches being de
rigeur about the time carbon fiber became so popular. Given what I
hear about how damage to carbon fiber parts is not always evident and
how failure can be catastrophic, I'd probably get a torque wrench if I
used carbon fiber components. I prefer just to avoid carbon fiber.

Hi, I was surprised that no one had mentioned the need for care when
tightening bolts with carbon fiber seatposts, handlebars, etc. I feel
that while a torque wrench may not be necessary in most cases, it
certainly does no harm. I use one when I work on my bike and it's
reassuring knowing that I haven't under or over tightened anything.
Life is Good!
Jeff

SEAT!!
i bought three baskets cheap last week.
beyond category!!!!!!!!

g.daniels said:

SEAT!!
i bought three baskets cheap last week.
beyond category!!!!!!!!

Confirmation.

Bill "basket case reference" S.

"Jens Kurt Heycke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Bruce Graham" <[email hidden]> wrote in message .> >
. . . .

Quoted message said:

The experts at the LBS rarely if ever use a torque wrench because they
have calibrated hands. They know what torque to apply to each size and
type of fastener from years of experience. Myself, I don't have that
experience so I use a torque wrench on any critical fastener (especially
aluminium threads).

Bruce Graham

Yup. The experts at my LBS managed to tighten the cassette lockring on
my bike such that the little cogs were slipping around about 15 miles
into a 40-mile ride.

I've heard several similar stories. My bike was built by a reputable shop
with highly regarded mechanics and a professed disdain for torque wrenches. On
my second ride on this bike the crank bolt slipped during a hard climb, very
nearly causing a very unpleasant experience. This was in part my fault for
not noticing warning signs (some play in the cranks) and walking the bike home.

The slip destroyed the splines in the crank, and the shop replaced it. The
mechanic advised me to slip a handlebar over the allen wrench, and crank it as
hard as I could. I did, and it hasn't slipped since, but the advice was not
inspiring given the critical nature of this bolt and the failure mode.

All things equal, in the future I'll take a less experienced mechanic whose
judgement is verified by a torque wrench.

Sam

g.daniels wrote:
<babble>

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:24:27 -0400, ML <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????
Can you repeat in some understandable dialect of English?

No, he can't. He's some sort of alien, or something. Really. Google
groups for his messages...

Can you avoid top-posting?
--
Rick Onanian

Sheldon Brown said:

I believe bicyles should be user serviceable, and I don't believe in
discouraging people from fixing their bikes just because they don't own
some exotic specialized tool, when that tool is not needed.

Er...how is a torque wrench exotic or specialized? It's cheap and
widely available (discount stores sell them for $5), and can be used
on many different types of fasteners, in very many sizes, for
thousands of applications.

The Ocean State Job Lot store in Quincy, probably a very short ride
for you, most likely has them for $5. I've never seen an OSJL store
that doesn't.

Any mystique about the ubiquitous torque wrench is as artificial as
spokes being labelled "mountain" or "road".
--
Rick Onanian

I said:

Quoted message said:

I believe bicyles should be user serviceable, and I don't believe in=20
discouraging people from fixing their bikes just because they don't own=

=20

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

some exotic specialized tool, when that tool is not needed.

Rick Onanian (but Netscape's spell checker thinks he's Rick Nonagon) aske=
d:

Quoted message said:

Er...how is a torque wrench exotic or specialized?=20

I'd be surprised if one U.S. household in 50 posseses a torque wrench.=20
To most folks in the U.S., even any sort of Metric wrenches are somewhat =

exotic, and it's a constant struggle to keep people from using pliers on =

nuts and bolts.

Sheldon "People Should Fix Their Own Bikes" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------+
| I=92m appearing as Preposteros in |
| Gilbert & Sullivan's Thespis at M.I.T. |
| April 9-10,15-17 http://web.mit.edu/gsp/www |
| http://sheldonbrown.com/music.html |
| Photos: http://sheldonbrown.org/g-s/thespis |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Quoted message said:

Sheldon Brown [email hidden] Writes:

Quoted message said:

I'd be surprised if one U.S. household in 50 posseses a torque wrench.=20
To most folks in the U.S., even any sort of Metric wrenches are somewhat =

exotic, and it's a constant struggle to keep people from using pliers on =

nuts and bolts.

Sheldon "People Should Fix Their Own Bikes" Brown

There are plenty of exotic tools out there but I don't think torque wrenches
and metric tools fit that description. I must know the wrong people because
more than half of my friends own at least a couple of torque wrenches. Exotic
metric wrenches? So many fasteners are metric now that I think of SAE
fasteners as the "exotic" tools.

I could but tell me why I should. I personally prefer to have the most
recent text on top so I don't need to scroll theough multiple screens of
either stuff I've already read or stuff I don't want to read.

So tell me why I should?

BTW, you're right about g.daniels. He says he can write legibly but
prefers not to. You know, style & all that [censored]. What a waste.......

MOO,
Matt

Rick Onanian said:

g.daniels wrote:
<babble>

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:24:27 -0400, ML <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

?????????????????????????????????????????????????
Can you repeat in some understandable dialect of English?

No, he can't. He's some sort of alien, or something. Really. Google
groups for his messages...

Can you avoid top-posting?
--
Rick Onanian

Sheldon:

You may be right but probably only 1 house in 100 actually does any
mechanical work that might require a torque wrench or metric wrenches.

A torque wrench is no more exotic than a pair of wire cutters. Anyone
who has any desire to do accurate mechanical work with bolts/nuts should
have one or two. If "close enough" is good enough then it isn't needed.
A person certainly doesn't need one to do bike repairs but if they
want to be guaranteed accurate with their setup then there is no choice
in the matter.

MOO,
Matt

Sheldon Brown said:

I said:

Quoted message said:

I believe bicyles should be user serviceable, and I don't believe in
discouraging people from fixing their bikes just because they don't
own some exotic specialized tool, when that tool is not needed.

Rick Onanian (but Netscape's spell checker thinks he's Rick Nonagon) asked:

Quoted message said:

Er...how is a torque wrench exotic or specialized?

I'd be surprised if one U.S. household in 50 posseses a torque wrench.
To most folks in the U.S., even any sort of Metric wrenches are somewhat
exotic, and it's a constant struggle to keep people from using pliers on
nuts and bolts.

Sheldon "People Should Fix Their Own Bikes" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------+
| I’m appearing as Preposteros in |
| Gilbert & Sullivan's Thespis at M.I.T. |
| April 9-10,15-17 http://web.mit.edu/gsp/www |
| http://sheldonbrown.com/music.html |
| Photos: http://sheldonbrown.org/g-s/thespis |
+-----------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

ML <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I could but tell me why I should. I personally prefer to have the
most recent text on top so I don't need to scroll theough multiple
screens of either stuff I've already read or stuff I don't want to
read.

So tell me why I should?

I think you know very well why you should but just like to be selfish and
cause trouble.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

VCopelan said:

Exotic
metric wrenches?

How about a five-and-a-quarter millimeter wrench? Now *that* would be
exotic.

Mark

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

ML <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

S> > I could but tell me why I should. I personally prefer to have the
I> > most recent text on top so I don't need to scroll theough multiple
D> > screens of either stuff I've already read or stuff I don't want to
E> > read.
-> >
P> > So tell me why I should?
O>
S> I think you know very well why you should but just like to be selfish and
T> cause trouble.
I>
N> --
G>
!!> A: Top-posters.

Quoted message said:

Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

No actually I would really like someone to tell me why I should.

MOO,
Matt

DRS said:

ML <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I could but tell me why I should. I personally prefer to have the
most recent text on top so I don't need to scroll theough multiple
screens of either stuff I've already read or stuff I don't want to
read.

So tell me why I should?

I think you know very well why you should but just like to be selfish and
cause trouble.

ML said:

No actually I would really like someone to tell me why I should.

Because people click on new posts and see your words with no idea what the
hell you're talking about. (Not everyone reads entire threads from start to
finish, much less all at one time.)

It also totally screws up succeeding replies, as now there's this misplaced
chunk of text that either has to be moved or snipped for coherency.

It's not so bad in e-mail, as presumably the correspondents know what has
been written previously, but in Usenet it's a sure sign of imbecilitude
(ought to be a word if it ain't!)...

Bill "sort of like an idiot at a blackjack table, wrecking the flow of
cards" S.

ML said:

No actually I would really like someone to tell me why I should.

Because the standard convention for posting a follow-up is to bottom
post after trimming away everything except what you're replying to.
As it is, nobody can tell what context your message has unless they
scroll down to the bottom of the message to find out. It's a little
bit more work for you when you're writing your reply, but it makes
everything clearer for the everyone else who reads it later.

Also, not top-posting will prevent anyone from complaining about how
you top-post. Isn't that enough?

-alan

--
Alan Hoyle - [email hidden] - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.

Alan Hoyle said:

ML said:

No actually I would really like someone to tell me why I should.

Because the standard convention for posting a follow-up is to bottom
post after trimming away everything except what you're replying to.
As it is, nobody can tell what context your message has unless they
scroll down to the bottom of the message to find out. It's a little
bit more work for you when you're writing your reply, but it makes
everything clearer for the everyone else who reads it later.

Also, not top-posting will prevent anyone from complaining about how
you top-post. Isn't that enough?

-alan

Alan:

What convention says top-posting is wrong. Point me to where it is
written that "thou shalt bottom post when replying".

In any event, I will change my setup.

MOO,
Matt