Handlebar-mounted GPS

B a r r y said:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:18:39 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Display resolution from one Etrex model to the next is not the same.
Etrex: 128 x 64
Etrex Venture: 288 x 160

Where did he ask about the yellow eTrex?

I was using it as an example; but I stand corrected -- I thought
there were multiple 8mb and/or multiple 24mb models. There are not.

Quoted message said:

The OP stated that he thought the Venture has a better screen than the
Vista. They are identical.

He did not name any models, but the models in question would
actually be the Legend and the Vista. The Venture only has 1mb
memory but does have the same high-res screen as both the Legend and
Vista.

Quoted message said:

Why confuse him?

Because I screwed up.

Anyway, that comparator that I linked in my previous post offers a
lot of nice info about Garmin's products.

The Vista, for MSRP $107 more than the Legend, appears to only
differ in the memory (24mb vs. 8mb), but that is a big difference if
you're going to need to download a lot of maps -- probably not
worthwhile for bicycling, except maybe self-sufficient extended
cross-country touring...but then you might be carrying a laptop
anyway. 😉

That said, and to answer the OP's question, I believe the 8mb model
would be more than sufficient for day trips, and even regional
touring. The maps for my Garmin Ique 3600 (PDA/GPS in one) have, I
think, very much more detail (along with street maps, phone/address
books including most businesses, and all sorts of other stuff), and
fit in 32mb about as much as I would _drive_ in a day. For simple
street maps of a one or two hundred mile radius, 8mb will probably
suffice. There must be hard data on this somewhere, though, and it
may be worthwhile to find that before making a decision.

As it relates to the Venture (and straying from the OP's question),
the Legend looks like a great deal -- MSRP only $20 more than the
Venture, comes with 8mb (vs 1mb) and a bunch more software, and
supports more tracklog points and more waypoints per route. I don't
know if it has the "best fishing & hunting times" feature found in
the Venture, but I'm probably the only person who's ever used
that...
--
Rick Onanian

Hey - the Etrex is ok; I had one of them, but the Garmin GPS76 is WAY
better. It's a lot bigger (more visible displays). You can literally watch
where you're going. You have to also buy the extra detailed maps to make it
optimal. I use mine both kayaking and biking. The whole tab is about $300
for the GPS, $150 for the maps, and $25 for the handlebar mount. A lot, but
way worth it to me.

Best,

jal
"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to get a GPS with map display for my bike, to mount on the
handlebars. This would be a unit that lets you download maps from the
Internet onto via USB connection. Garmin Etrex has an 8 MB and a 24 MB
model, the latter more expensive with altimeter and barometer, which I
don't really need (though the altimeter would be cute).

Anybody have any recommendations on these models? Is the 8 MB limit
confining in terms of the fraction of the Earth's surface area it can
hold a map for? 😉 This is for day rides, rather than a cross the USA
trip. I'm told the 8 MB has better screen resolution than the 24 MB.

Dave

I have just moved across to a Garmin 60c from a legend. The main reasons were: better battery life, much more memory (I can get the whole of the UK on it to street level), screen easier to read (IMHO), it takes my blueWater charts for the boat, it has audible alarms.

I use it/them for motor touring, Gliding (sailplanes), sailing, sea
kayaking, walking, skiing, and cycling

Either of the Legend or 60c would be adequate, the legend is neater but
the 60C has more functionality, it is larger but not excessively so.

I have always been interested in navigation and own a large collection
of current and antique maps and navigation equipment (and I know how to
use them!)

ALL technology can fail or be mis-used, my worst case involved allowing
someone else to put a 4 cell lantern in the front of my sea kayak, which
threw my compass off by about 25deg fortunately my backup was further
away. I have never had a problem with GPS in 12 years use.*

Most of the time I don't even use a map when on the hills, I just sort
my route out before hand and commit to memory the salient points but the
GPS is always available and often switched on in the top of my pack
creating a nice log for me being a true GPS geek I also create my own
maps for trails etc.

* I can navigate without any technology at all and have done on many
occasions, its important to UNDERSTAND what the machine or instrument
is telling you not just follow it. to not use a piece of technolgy for
some 'purist' reason is plain daft.

YMMV

Steve D

--

In said:

Look into land navigation and orienteering before you buy a GPS
unit, is my advice.

Yeah, and not only that, before you even pick up a pre-printed map you
should definitely learn how to use a theodolite and investigate how to make
your own maps using triangulation methods, because those amazing pieces of
paper don't come from nowhere, you know.

--
Herbie J.
Famous Curator

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:54:25 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Anyway, that comparator that I linked in my previous post offers a
lot of nice info about Garmin's products.

I certainly does

Quoted message said:

As it relates to the Venture (and straying from the OP's question),
the Legend looks like a great deal -- MSRP only $20 more than the
Venture, comes with 8mb (vs 1mb) and a bunch more software, and
supports more tracklog points and more waypoints per route. I don't
know if it has the "best fishing & hunting times" feature found in
the Venture, but I'm probably the only person who's ever used
that...

I think you are. <G>

One other point. The OP didn't mention road only cycling, but I found
the compass and 24MB of space on the Vista very useful when off-road.
I loaded both road and topo maps for the area, which took a lot more
space than only the road maps. The compass is great (IF you calibrate
it!) for trail intersections when you aren't moving, and marking
points with "Sight-n-Go", to navigate to them.

eBay often has great deals on Legends as some people upgrade.

I can also recommend <http://www.tvnav.com> as a very reputable Garmin
dealer. His website looks cheesy, but he's got great service at
excellent prices. I've probably spend about $2k there over the last
3-4 years.

Barry

sdorrity said:

Either of the Legend or 60c would be adequate, the legend is neater but
the 60C has more functionality, it is larger but not excessively so.

Not to mention that color screen is much more readable than the
grayscale version.

Barry

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:30:05 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

try being on the other side of the world, in a country where you can't
read the signs very well.

Yeah. :-) That would be heavenly.

One of these days I'm /gonna/ do Iceland.
I feel I'm predilected to do so, when the
timing is right.

Iceland is at the top of my new countries list, in fact. Excellent
choice.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you'll be glad you have that little GPS in
yoru pocket, even if you only use it for a sextant!

I'd rather opportunely meet nice ppl on the roadside.
From what I've read, cycle touring can be as isolated
or as socially interactive as one wants.

If you are somewhere that has people, I'm sure you can meet them.

Quoted message said:

I don't want no gizmos tearing me away from fellow ppl.

I don't understand what you mean Tom.

Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:31:21 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

(R15757) said:

Also the OP should consider that the GPS numbers won't mean much
if the map is wrong, as maps often are.

GPS numbers mean exactly where you are, regardless of maps.

That's a strength of GPS: if the map on which you've depended for
the last 100 miles is wrong, and it's paper, you're screwed. If said
map is in a GPS, as least you can easily get back to your last
accurate waypoint.

Good point Rick. Having read maps professionally for over 20 years,
using GPS for 10, I have seen that very discrepancy more than a few
times.

Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:32:13 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Eric S. Sande said:

Yeah, I have a recommendation, but you won't like it. Don't get
them. They are fine units, for what they do. But think about it.
Do you really need GPS to ride a bike?

I've never had a location problem that I couldn't resolve with a
map and a compass, and in most cases the compass was valuable but
not vital.

The purpose of GPS routing on roads is to save time; also, a GPS is
more compact than a pile of paper maps, and the Etrex series is more
robust than paper too -- works fine in heavy rain for example.

It's great for purposely getting lost and having an easy way back,
too.

Quoted message said:

It would pay you to know how to navigate without GPS.

It does indeed pay. It's nice to know how to (and be equipped to)
navigate both ways. Fail safe navigation beats getting lost when
your map blows away in the wind (or gets rained on, or it's the
wrong map) as well as it beats the broken GPS or the valley with no
signal.

Don't forget that tripodometer function. Nothing like knowing just
how many kilos you traveled.

Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

In article <[email hidden]>,

Michael J. Klein said:

Quoted message said:

I don't want no gizmos tearing me away from fellow ppl.

I don't understand what you mean Tom.

I figure if one is sufficiently far afield that use of
a GPS unit is warranted, one is effectively touring --
even if it's in your own province/state/canton/district/
whatever.

I also believe one of the best aspects about touring
is meeting new people -- besides other tourists,
that is.

It seems some folks would prefer to rely on technology,
to avoid interacting with the local people. In which
case, what's the point with touring in such personal
isolation? I guess I just have a romantic notion of
touring as a sort of 'adventure', with a little more
risk to spice things up, than watching travelogues
on television.

I can see the practicality of a GPS unit in uninhabited
or sparsely populated areas. But Dave, the original poster,
mentions his interest is just for fun, during day trips.
There's nothing wrong with that. But I don't think he'll
find himself hopelessly lost in the Antarctic or Gobi Desert
during a day ride :-) I hope not, anyways. I hope Dave
finds the answers and the right GPS he desires.

- Tom

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On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:24:08 -0700, [email hidden] (Tom Keats)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't want no gizmos tearing me away from fellow ppl.

It seems some folks would prefer to rely on technology,
to avoid interacting with the local people. In which
case, what's the point with touring in such personal
isolation? I guess I just have a romantic notion of
touring as a sort of 'adventure', with a little more
risk to spice things up, than watching travelogues
on television.

Sounds like you don't need to worry about gizmos tearing you away.
It's not the gizmos that cause it, it's just the gizmos that allow
it for those who prefer it.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rick Onanian said:

Sounds like you don't need to worry about gizmos tearing you away.
It's not the gizmos that cause it, it's just the gizmos that allow
it for those who prefer it.

I figure sooner or later we'll see GPS technology
built into cell phones, anyway. 'Convergence', 'n
all that.

- Tom

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In said:

I figure sooner or later we'll see GPS technology
built into cell phones, anyway. 'Convergence', 'n
all that.

It's already there, and has been for years.

e.g. http://www.benefon.fi/products/esc/

--
Herbie J.
Famous Curator

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:52:11 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Sounds like you don't need to worry about gizmos tearing you away.
It's not the gizmos that cause it, it's just the gizmos that allow
it for those who prefer it.

One of my favorite uses of GPS is for track logging. This allows me
to see where I went on a map later. I still get to see sights and
talk to people whenever I want.

On several occasions, my GPS track logs overlaid on a map became the
map for organized charity rides.

Barry

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:54:25 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

The Vista, for MSRP $107 more than the Legend, appears to only
differ in the memory (24mb vs. 8mb), but that is a big difference if
you're going to need to download a lot of maps -- probably not
worthwhile for bicycling, except maybe self-sufficient extended
cross-country touring...but then you might be carrying a laptop
anyway. 😉

That said, and to answer the OP's question, I believe the 8mb model
would be more than sufficient for day trips, and even regional
touring. The maps for my Garmin Ique 3600 (PDA/GPS in one) have, I
think, very much more detail (along with street maps, phone/address
books including most businesses, and all sorts of other stuff), and
fit in 32mb about as much as I would _drive_ in a day. For simple
street maps of a one or two hundred mile radius, 8mb will probably
suffice. There must be hard data on this somewhere, though, and it
may be worthwhile to find that before making a decision.

Having owned both the Legend and Vista, I find the Legend a bit
limiting even for regional touring; the coverage that can be
downloaded into the Legend is only sufficient for 1-2 days of riding.
I can download enough into the Vista to cover a week or two, depending
on the structure of the ride. The maps I load are MetroGuide, so
they have the data on lodging, restaurants, etc. I trim the size by
not downloading auto-routing information. Right now I have the entire
coastal region of California from about 100 miles north of SF down to
Santa Barbara in the Vista, with room for a bit more. In a month that
will be swapped for northern Italy/southern Switzerland ;-)

- rick

B a r r y said:

sdorrity said:

Either of the Legend or 60c would be adequate, the legend is neater but
the 60C has more functionality, it is larger but not excessively so.

Not to mention that color screen is much more readable than the
grayscale version.

I find the 60C(S) and GPSMAP 76 series to be too big for my taste;
handlebar space is limited, and too much competition for space. And,
the color is nice in some aspects, but not always more readable; the
tracks are almost indisinguishable from the background colors - cannot
tell where I have been!

- rick

Herbie Jurvanen said:

In said:

I figure sooner or later we'll see GPS technology
built into cell phones, anyway. 'Convergence', 'n
all that.

It's already there, and has been for years.
e.g. http://www.benefon.fi/products/esc/

Yup..in fact, it is law in many places that all new phones must have
GPS functionality in them for emergency 911 location purposes. Too
bad they don't mandate a user interface too...my phone has built-in
GPS but no user access to it.
--
Rick Onanian

In article <[email hidden]>,

Herbie Jurvanen said:

In said:

I figure sooner or later we'll see GPS technology
built into cell phones, anyway. 'Convergence', 'n
all that.

It's already there, and has been for years.

e.g. http://www.benefon.fi/products/esc/

Kewl!

Now if there was just some way make use of the
cell phone component to transfer GPS-related
data to/from the home computer while on the fly ...

Displaying weather conditions along with the
geography might be useful, too.

- Tom

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On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 10:11:50 -0400, Rick Onanian <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Herbie Jurvanen said:

In said:

I figure sooner or later we'll see GPS technology
built into cell phones, anyway. 'Convergence', 'n
all that.

It's already there, and has been for years.
e.g. http://www.benefon.fi/products/esc/

Yup..in fact, it is law in many places that all new phones must have
GPS functionality in them for emergency 911 location purposes. Too
bad they don't mandate a user interface too...my phone has built-in
GPS but no user access to it.

Its not actually "GPS" functionality, per se. The locations of the
celluar sites are qualifed using GPS and then from there, the system
trangulates the positions of the users. There is no GPS engine in the
mobile phones themselves.

The purpose isn't really for 911 location though.

Michael J. Klein
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yup..in fact, it is law in many places that all new phones must have
GPS functionality in them for emergency 911 location purposes. Too
bad they don't mandate a user interface too...my phone has built-in
GPS but no user access to it.

I believe (not sure, though) that some phones have a user interface to
it, but not many; that would add a lot of cost to the phones.

Quoted message said:

Its not actually "GPS" functionality, per se. The locations of the
celluar sites are qualifed using GPS and then from there, the system
trangulates the positions of the users. There is no GPS engine in the
mobile phones themselves.

I've been following this issue through the IEEE, and yes, there is. The
triangulation method is what it uses when there's no GPS function in the
phones, and is far less precise. If you're only in range of one or two
cell towers, triangulation is largely useless, so they put the GPS
functionality into the phones.

Quoted message said:

The purpose isn't really for 911 location though.

That's the *whole* purpose of it in many areas.

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