Effect of raising saddle?

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:36:10 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

<Snip>

Quoted message said:

The LBS claims I should get more power on the stroke and maybe less fatigue
while riding (that would be great!). Some older fellow said something
similar as he dropped me on the road trying to catch up to his wife on her
recumbent.

Proper leg extension is one of those things that really makes a
difference. at the bottom of the pedal stroke, there should only be a
very slight bend in your knee--it should be extended, but not
overextended.

On a road bike, the saddle will probably be high enough off the ground
to preclude being able to put your feet down on the ground while
sitting on it.

Try raising the saddle: you'll like it. I recently raised the saddle
on my little brother's superheavy Huffy, and the grin on his face when
he could actually *move* the bike down the road at a decent clip was
proof enough of the efficiency and effectiveness of good position.

-Luigi

Roger Zoul said:

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle (including the
cute lady who sold me my bike

;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

Quoted message said:

-- I think she was afraid for me at first so
played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it close
(they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional fitting). Anyway,
one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two people there who does the
fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and has me
start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle
hight by 2.5 inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Riding a saddle that's too low is like doing a Groucho Marx duck walk
all day long. It puts lots of unnecessary strain on your knees.

You mention doing leg presses. You should be able to verify the idea
with that machine, if it's got enough adjustment. See how much you can
raise with your leg nearly extended, versus how little you can raise
with your knees deeply bent.

One way of setting saddle height is to lean against a wall to support
yourself, unclip, put your _heels_ on the pedals, and backpedal. Your
seat should be high enough so you can barely contact the pedals at their
lowest point. (Hip rocking to "stretch" is not allowed.)

If you set your seat height this way, then when you clip in properly,
you'll have about the right bend (i.e. pretty slight) in your knees.

Of course, nothing's perfect. This works pretty well if your body -
especially shoe size - is all "normal." Feel free to make slight
adjustements to fine tune things.

With the seat high enough, you'll ride _much_ stronger.

(With the seat too high, your hips might rock and cause saddle problems,
or you may get pain in the back of the knee from over-extending.)

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Wow....went to the LBS today to pick up my bike with the rebuilt rear wheel
(28 spokes, 240 lbs rider). Don't know yet if they did a good job or
not --- TBD.

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle (including the
cute lady who sold me my bike -- I think she was afraid for me at first so
played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it close
(they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional fitting). Anyway,
one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two people there who does the
fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and has me
start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle
hight by 2.5 inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

Your knees, quads and lungs will probably thank you!

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

In article <[email hidden]>, luigi12081
@cox.net says...

....

Quoted message said:

Try raising the saddle: you'll like it. I recently raised the saddle
on my little brother's superheavy Huffy, and the grin on his face when
he could actually *move* the bike down the road at a decent clip was
proof enough of the efficiency and effectiveness of good position.

My daughter had the same response when I raised hers. Of course, that
was three months ago, and now it's too low again <Grin>.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Luigi de Guzman said:

Quoted message said:

The LBS claims I should get more power on the stroke and maybe less fatigue
while riding (that would be great!). Some older fellow said something
similar as he dropped me on the road trying to catch up to his wife on her
recumbent.

Is there a source on-line that gives guidelines for all the "fitting"
issues?

Handle bar height, distance from saddle front to goose neck, etc.?

TIA,

B

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle (including

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cute lady who sold me my bike

;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

Quoted message said:

-- I think she was afraid for me at first so
played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it

close

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional fitting).

Anyway,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two people there who does the
fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and has

me

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle
hight by 2.5 inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Riding a saddle that's too low is like doing a Groucho Marx duck walk
all day long. It puts lots of unnecessary strain on your knees.

You mention doing leg presses. You should be able to verify the idea
with that machine, if it's got enough adjustment. See how much you can
raise with your leg nearly extended, versus how little you can raise
with your knees deeply bent.

One way of setting saddle height is to lean against a wall to support
yourself, unclip, put your _heels_ on the pedals, and backpedal. Your
seat should be high enough so you can barely contact the pedals at their
lowest point. (Hip rocking to "stretch" is not allowed.)

If you set your seat height this way, then when you clip in properly,
you'll have about the right bend (i.e. pretty slight) in your knees.

Of course, nothing's perfect. This works pretty well if your body -
especially shoe size - is all "normal." Feel free to make slight
adjustements to fine tune things.

With the seat high enough, you'll ride _much_ stronger.

(With the seat too high, your hips might rock and cause saddle problems,
or you may get pain in the back of the knee from over-extending.)

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

The website for Colorado Cyclist has a fitting section that's quite
comprehensive and that's based on most of the latest thinking on proper bike
fit. Go to www.coloradocyclist.com

Bob C.

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Wow....went to the LBS today to pick up my bike with the rebuilt rear wheel
(28 spokes, 240 lbs rider). Don't know yet if they did a good job or
not --- TBD.

Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle (including the
cute lady who sold me my bike -- I think she was afraid for me at first so
played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it close
(they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional fitting). Anyway,
one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two people there who does the
fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and has me
start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle
hight by 2.5 inches!!

I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?

Roger, they should have done the proffesional fitting, BEFORE selling
you the bike, not after.
Here is a link to Sheldon's info for Beginning Cyclists, it is
informative in many areas, take a look -
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

Did you ever receive my email, about the wheelbuilder in your part of
the country?
For you, and anyone else, when someone on these forums, takes the time
to send you an email, it would be helpful to least send a brief reply,
"Thanks for the info". That way we'll know that you got it. And while
I'm on the subject, and this has nothing to do with Roger, if you
email someone asking for info, on say handlebars or whatever, and they
take the time to reply. Send them a quick note of thanks. And now,
let's return to our previously scheduled topic;-)

Life is Good!
Jeff

Jeff Starr wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:<[email hidden]>...
::: Wow....went to the LBS today to pick up my bike with the rebuilt
::: rear wheel (28 spokes, 240 lbs rider). Don't know yet if they did
::: a good job or
::: not --- TBD.
:::
::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle
::: (including the
::: cute lady who sold me my bike -- I think she was afraid for me at
::: first so
::: played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it
::: close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
::: fitting). Anyway,
::: one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two people there who
::: does the
::: fittings) decides to help me out...puts the bike on the trainer and
::: has me
::: start riding. By then end of 30 minutes or so, he has raised the
::: saddle
::: hight by 2.5 inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
:::
:::
:: Roger, they should have done the proffesional fitting, BEFORE selling
:: you the bike, not after.

Well, they did not. the sales lady did what she could.

:: Here is a link to Sheldon's info for Beginning Cyclists, it is
:: informative in many areas, take a look -
:: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html

I was just reading that...

::
:: Did you ever receive my email, about the wheelbuilder in your part of
:: the country?

Yes...and I thought I wrote you back asking a question! (I use two
computers -- one at home and one at work -- I don't see the reply here.) He
is about 85 miles from where i work, so I'm going to go pick them up. i'll
probably ask him about rebuilding my present wheel, too, since I'm not sure
if I trust the LBS.

But, I have purchased a wheelset from the wheelbuilder you pointed me to. I
don't have them yet, though.

:: For you, and anyone else, when someone on these forums, takes the
:: time
:: to send you an email, it would be helpful to least send a brief
:: reply, "Thanks for the info". That way we'll know that you got it.
:: And while
:: I'm on the subject, and this has nothing to do with Roger, if you
:: email someone asking for info, on say handlebars or whatever, and
:: they
:: take the time to reply. Send them a quick note of thanks. And now,
:: let's return to our previously scheduled topic;-)

Thanks!

::
:: Life is Good!
:: Jeff

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle
::: (including the cute lady who sold me my bike
::
:: ;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

I think she's smart, too.

::
::
::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so
::: played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it
::: close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
::: fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two
::: people there who does the fittings) decides to help me out...puts
::: the bike on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end of 30
::: minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
::
:: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is a
positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I sit on
the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting numb. Only
after 13 miles. Of course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
saddle in the other position, so I think I should expect some adjustment
time...

::
:: Riding a saddle that's too low is like doing a Groucho Marx duck walk
:: all day long. It puts lots of unnecessary strain on your knees.
::
:: You mention doing leg presses. You should be able to verify the idea
:: with that machine, if it's got enough adjustment. See how much you
:: can raise with your leg nearly extended, versus how little you can
:: raise
:: with your knees deeply bent.

Right..

::
:: One way of setting saddle height is to lean against a wall to support
:: yourself, unclip, put your _heels_ on the pedals, and backpedal.
:: Your
:: seat should be high enough so you can barely contact the pedals at
:: their lowest point. (Hip rocking to "stretch" is not allowed.)

I'll keep that in mind. I may end up getting a trainer this winter.

::
:: If you set your seat height this way, then when you clip in properly,
:: you'll have about the right bend (i.e. pretty slight) in your knees.
::
:: Of course, nothing's perfect. This works pretty well if your body -
:: especially shoe size - is all "normal." Feel free to make slight
:: adjustements to fine tune things.
::

Yeah, after a few more rides....I may just shell out another $100 to get the
fit optimized...I might need a longer stem, too.

:: With the seat high enough, you'll ride _much_ stronger.

I didn't feel any stronger. But pedalling itself does feel more natural.
Getting on and off the bike is more complicated...and things are trickier at
intersections...[censored]! I'm going to do more frequent but shorter rides over
the next week to try to speed the adjustment. I've reread sheldon browns'
comments on mounting/dismounting the bike. His dismount info seems a little
vague...and mounting is trickier with the clipless pedals...damn! I feel
like I'm back to square one... A rank noob....

::
:: (With the seat too high, your hips might rock and cause saddle
:: problems,
:: or you may get pain in the back of the knee from over-extending.)
::

Hmm....I could not detect hips rocking on this bike this morning nor in the
LBS yesterday....and looking for it is part of the reason I let them help me
rather than trying to do it myself

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle
::: (including the cute lady who sold me my bike
::
:: ;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.

I think she's smart, too.

::
::
::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so
::: played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it
::: close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
::: fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two
::: people there who does the fittings) decides to help me out...puts
::: the bike on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end of 30
::: minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
::
:: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is a
positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I sit on
the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting numb. Only

Not surprising, since your handlebars are now effectively 2.5 inches
lower. Just raise them up to within an inch or so of the seat height.
If there's not enough adjustment range for that, you can get a headset
extender for about $20 which will give you plenty of adjustment.

.....

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Roger Zoul said:

Frank Krygowski said:

Quoted message said:

2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is a
positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I
sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting
numb. Only after 13 miles. Of course, I've put over 900 miles on my
bike with the saddle in the other position, so I think I should
expect some adjustment time...

Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an appreciable amount, so you
may have to play around with position a bit at this new (better) height.

Bill "tweaker" S.

S o r n i wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is
::: a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I
::: sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting
::: numb. Only after 13 miles. Of course, I've put over 900 miles on
::: my bike with the saddle in the other position, so I think I should
::: expect some adjustment time...
::
:: Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an appreciable amount,
:: so you may have to play around with position a bit at this new
:: (better) height.

Oh, good stuff. So I slight move backward might be in order?

::
:: Bill "tweaker" S.

David Kerber wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: [email hidden] says...
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::
:::::: Anyway, since folks have been telling me to raise my saddle
:::::: (including the cute lady who sold me my bike
:::::
::::: ;-) I think it's time you posted the cutie's picture.
:::
::: I think she's smart, too.
:::
:::::
:::::
:::::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so
:::::: played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting
:::::: it close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
:::::: fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two
:::::: people there who does the fittings) decides to help me out...puts
:::::: the bike on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end of
:::::: 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!
::::::
:::::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is
::: a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I
::: sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting
::: numb. Only
::
:: Not surprising, since your handlebars are now effectively 2.5 inches
:: lower. Just raise them up to within an inch or so of the seat
:: height.
:: If there's not enough adjustment range for that, you can get a
:: headset extender for about $20 which will give you plenty of
:: adjustment.

Yeah, the only adjustment is basically up and back at the same time. So
there's likely to be some adjustment and/or swapping out needed.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

S o r n i wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is
::: a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I
::: sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting
::: numb. Only after 13 miles. Of course, I've put over 900 miles on
::: my bike with the saddle in the other position, so I think I should
::: expect some adjustment time...
::
:: Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an appreciable amount,
:: so you may have to play around with position a bit at this new
:: (better) height.

Oh, good stuff. So I slight move backward might be in order?

Forward, actually, though (referencing the other message), if you can
raise your handlebars by the same amount, then your reach should be very
close to what it was before you raised the seat, and you shouldn't need
a new stem. If your seat tube angle and head tube angle are the same,
then the bars and the seat will stay the same distance apart if you
raise them both the same amount.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

Roger Zoul said:

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so
::: played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting it
::: close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
::: fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two
::: people there who does the fittings) decides to help me out...puts
::: the bike on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end of 30
::: minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!
:::
::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
::
:: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!

Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is a
positive one, yet.

I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I sit on
the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting numb. Only
after 13 miles. Of course, I've put over 900 miles on my bike with the
saddle in the other position, so I think I should expect some adjustment
time...

If the only thing done was to raise your seat 2.5" I'm not surprised
at the new symptoms, because it also means your handlebars are now 2.5"
lower than they used to be with respect to the saddle height. This
may cause you to put more weight on your hands, causing the numbness,
and to lean further forward on your saddle, causing more pressure on
the softer bits. You could probably adjust to the new bar position if
you give it time but I don't see much point in that. Most people seem
maximally comfortable with the top of the bars at, or just below, the
level of the top of the saddle.

That they let you out the door with the saddle 2.5" too low in the first
place hints that they may also have let you out the door with a bike
frame that was too small for you, something bike shops seem to love
to do for some reason. If so you can no doubt live with this (lots of
people seem to) if they can get your bars up to where they should be,
but you might keep this in mind when you buy your next bike...

Dennis Ferguson

David Kerber wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>,
:: [email hidden] says...
::: S o r n i wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
::::::::
:::::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
::::::
:::::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it
:::::: is a positive one, yet.
::::::
:::::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but
:::::: where I sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands
:::::: were getting numb. Only after 13 miles. Of course, I've put
:::::: over 900 miles on my bike with the saddle in the other position,
:::::: so I think I should expect some adjustment time...
:::::
::::: Keep in mind that the saddle also moved BACK an appreciable
::::: amount, so you may have to play around with position a bit at
::::: this new (better) height.
:::
::: Oh, good stuff. So I slight move backward might be in order?
::
:: Forward, actually, though (referencing the other message),

Stupid me....

if you can
:: raise your handlebars by the same amount, then your reach should be
:: very close to what it was before you raised the seat, and you
:: shouldn't need a new stem. If your seat tube angle and head tube
:: angle are the same, then the bars and the seat will stay the same
:: distance apart if you raise them both the same amount.

I probably should have had them both done at the same time...I'll probably
end up being uncomfortable on the bike and end up paying for the pro
fitting.

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
:: Roger Zoul <[email hidden]> wrote:
::: Frank Krygowski wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: -- I think she was afraid for me at first so
:::::: played it safe), I thought to ask for some assistance on getting
:::::: it close (they're pushing me to pay the $100 for a professional
:::::: fitting). Anyway, one of the guys (a mechanic and one of the two
:::::: people there who does the fittings) decides to help me out...puts
:::::: the bike on the trainer and has me start riding. By then end of
:::::: 30 minutes or so, he has raised the saddle hight by 2.5 inches!!
::::::
:::::: I'm wondering what practical difference this will make?
:::::
::::: 2.5 inches will make a huge practical difference!
:::
::: Well, it most certainly did. However, I'm not sure I can say it is
::: a positive one, yet.
:::
::: I rode 13 miles this morning. No problems on the legs, but where I
::: sit on the saddle had greater discomfort, and my hands were getting
::: numb. Only after 13 miles. Of course, I've put over 900 miles on
::: my bike with the saddle in the other position, so I think I should
::: expect some adjustment time...
::
:: If the only thing done was to raise your seat 2.5" I'm not surprised
:: at the new symptoms, because it also means your handlebars are now
:: 2.5" lower than they used to be with respect to the saddle height.
:: This
:: may cause you to put more weight on your hands, causing the numbness,
:: and to lean further forward on your saddle, causing more pressure on
:: the softer bits. You could probably adjust to the new bar position
:: if
:: you give it time but I don't see much point in that. Most people
:: seem maximally comfortable with the top of the bars at, or just
:: below, the level of the top of the saddle.

the guy did mention, to his credit, that the handle bars needed adjusting
too. The plan was for me to ride for a few days and come back for
adjustments. I likely should have mentioned that. I'm going to ride a bit
more and perhaps go back on the weekend.

::
:: That they let you out the door with the saddle 2.5" too low in the
:: first place hints that they may also have let you out the door with
:: a bike
:: frame that was too small for you, something bike shops seem to love
:: to do for some reason.

Honestly, I think I imparted a "fear factor" into the sales lady...she's
told me over and over, and even on the day I got the bike that she thought
the seat was too low. I honestly think that perhaps I made her feel that
having the seat at the proper height was something I did not want. I'm a
big guy, a newbie to biking, and she is just a 110-lb lady (who is a real
pleasure to buy a bike from).

I'm thinking the frame is okay, but how can I be sure? Well, it doesn't
really matter now....

If so you can no doubt live with this (lots
:: of people seem to) if they can get your bars up to where they should
:: be,
:: but you might keep this in mind when you buy your next bike...

Right.

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:23:28 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

:: Forward, actually, though (referencing the other message),

Stupid me....

if you can
:: raise your handlebars by the same amount, then your reach should be
:: very close to what it was before you raised the seat, and you
:: shouldn't need a new stem. If your seat tube angle and head tube
:: angle are the same, then the bars and the seat will stay the same
:: distance apart if you raise them both the same amount.

I probably should have had them both done at the same time...I'll probably
end up being uncomfortable on the bike and end up paying for the pro
fitting.

IMO, they're f-ing with ya Roger. If you bought a road bike worth at least
1000 bucks, the fitting should be part of it, and you shouldn't have to
pay. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that a bike marked $1200 you should
be able to dicker down to ~1000, and the fitting and free adjustments for
life is the norm. They should be courting -your- good favor, b/c they know
that you'll be spending another 500 or so in the next year at their store.

I'd go back and talk to the owner, tell him you planned to drop some fair
bill in his store, but you feel you're being screwed around with, and not
being given the basic normal treatment that most bike shops give even
customers that spend half that much. If he doesn't come through, I'd hint
that you might decide to talk to the Better Business bureau, or at least
take your business elsewhere. It's a simple matter of economics, IMO. Give
you what you're due and get 500 more in sales in the next 12 months and
good word-of-mouth in the bike community. Let him know you're
well-connected with the biking community and ask him (nicely) if that
doesn't mean something. Do all your talking nicely and logically, present
your case and mention that you had to -ask- for a borrowed wheel, when
normally, to a good customer, the shop should have realized 'hey he's a
hard core $$$ rider, let's -offer- a wheel', yadda, yadda.

Good luck, buddy! ;-)

-Badger

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:23:28 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::::: Forward, actually, though (referencing the other message),
:::
::: Stupid me....
:::
::: if you can
::::: raise your handlebars by the same amount, then your reach should
::::: be very close to what it was before you raised the seat, and you
::::: shouldn't need a new stem. If your seat tube angle and head tube
::::: angle are the same, then the bars and the seat will stay the same
::::: distance apart if you raise them both the same amount.
:::
::: I probably should have had them both done at the same time...I'll
::: probably end up being uncomfortable on the bike and end up paying
::: for the pro fitting.
::
:: IMO, they're f-ing with ya Roger. If you bought a road bike worth at
:: least 1000 bucks, the fitting should be part of it, and you
:: shouldn't have to pay. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that a bike
:: marked $1200 you should be able to dicker down to ~1000, and the
:: fitting and free adjustments for life is the norm. They should be
:: courting -your- good favor, b/c they know that you'll be spending
:: another 500 or so in the next year at their store.

I dropped over 2 grand in that store when I got the bike. I've spent more
since then, too. They lady who sold me my bike has given me some attention,
however, like when I went clipless, she spent time getting them adjusted.
They charged me for the fixing the first spoke, the second one was free, as
was the rebuild.

::
:: I'd go back and talk to the owner, tell him you planned to drop some
:: fair bill in his store, but you feel you're being screwed around
:: with, and not being given the basic normal treatment that most bike
:: shops give even customers that spend half that much. If he doesn't
:: come through, I'd hint that you might decide to talk to the Better
:: Business bureau, or at least take your business elsewhere. It's a
:: simple matter of economics, IMO. Give you what you're due and get
:: 500 more in sales in the next 12 months and good word-of-mouth in
:: the bike community. Let him know you're well-connected with the
:: biking community and ask him (nicely) if that doesn't mean
:: something. Do all your talking nicely and logically, present your
:: case and mention that you had to -ask- for a borrowed wheel, when
:: normally, to a good customer, the shop should have realized 'hey
:: he's a hard core $$$ rider, let's -offer- a wheel', yadda, yadda.

Yeah, I'd heard others here say that the fitting should be free, so my
patience wears thin. I really thinking I need to get free of them, since
they apparently see me as a payday.

::
:: Good luck, buddy! ;-)
::
:: -Badger