Grauniad: Killing with Carelessness

On 28/7/04 4:22 pm, in article [email hidden], "Just zis Guy,

you know? said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1270483,00.html

I particularly liked this one..

10. What noise does a bicycle travelling at 25mph make just before it hits
you?

a) A warning siren
b) Loud shouting, with swear words
c) None, you have to watch for it

The optimum answer is apparently c. So if you have seen the bike before it
hits you and don't get out of the way...

The article isn't too depressing, and does emphasise the need for more
training. Of course the lack of training excuses any motorist from fault....

...d

Just zis Guy said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1270483,00.html

In the multi choice quiz, there's two answers for question 6 (for some
values of utterly disregarded)

6. Would you expect most serious or fatal accidents to happen on roads
where the speed limit is:

a) Utterly disregarded
b) 70mph
c) 40mph or less

It also contains this surprisingly naive line:

You may be surprised to learn that the single biggest killer of
teenagers is not drugs, but traffic.

It does end with the surprisingly enlightened for FLJS sentiment that
the only thing as bad as losing a child on the road is the horror of
killing someone else's. If only the average person had that sentiment
and acted upon it.

A

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1270483,00.html

The 600 children per month killed or seriously injured needs looking at.
Since only 100 of all cyclists are killed per year, lumping in the deaths
with the injuries is being a bit alarmist. Judging by the lardy children
around here, the obesity will kill them before a car will.

--
Simon M.

David Martin said:

On 28/7/04 4:22 pm, in article [email hidden], "Just zis Guy,

you know? said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1270483,00.html

I particularly liked this one..

10. What noise does a bicycle travelling at 25mph make just before it hits
you?

a) A warning siren
b) Loud shouting, with swear words
c) None, you have to watch for it

The optimum answer is apparently c. So if you have seen the bike before it
hits you and don't get out of the way...

Nice of them to fit a token bike into the dangers, cruising at, to say
the least, athletic speeds.

Quoted message said:

The article isn't too depressing, and does emphasise the need for more
training. Of course the lack of training excuses any motorist from fault....

Of course. Especially if the victim isn't wearing a helmet. It appear
that the author didn't blame the van driver for the collision with her
daughter when it seemed to me that the driver was negligent.

A

in message <[email hidden]>, Just zis Guy, you know?

(') said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1270483,00.html

Errrmmmm.... Where's she getting her numbers from?

<quote>
Between May and September 2002, nearly 600 children each month were
killed or severely injured on their bikes
</quote>

That doesn't seem to me to tally with what I remember of DfT figures.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

Just zis Guy, you know? [email hidden] opined the
following...

Quoted message said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

I was particularly fond of:

5. A quarter of parents do not buy bike helmets for their children. Did
you ...

a) Forget to buy one. You'll get round to it some time; until then, tell
your children to be extra careful
b) Buy a helmet two weeks later as an afterthought
c) Get the helmet at the same time as the bike (and let your child
choose the colour)

It doesn't seem to include any possibility that you might have deemed
one unnecessary.

Jon

David Martin [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

I particularly liked this one..

10. What noise does a bicycle travelling at 25mph make just before it hits
you?

a) A warning siren
b) Loud shouting, with swear words
c) None, you have to watch for it

The optimum answer is apparently c. So if you have seen the bike before it
hits you and don't get out of the way...

In my case... frequently b. I find that being loud enough to be audible
inside the cab of a bus is a good way to increasing your chances of
survival.

Jon Senior said:

It doesn't seem to include any possibility that you might have deemed
one unnecessary.

Nor does it include any possibility that you got a helmet but sod the
colour, you got the one that fit your child's head the best.

d.

you know? said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1270483,00.html

Can anyone make sense of the figures in the following?

% Each month, more than 200 children under 15 are killed or severely
% injured by traffic. Children on bicycles are even more vulnerable during
% the summer months. Between May and September 2002, nearly 600 children
% each month were killed or severely injured on their bikes.

May to September 2002 is 5 months so 3000 child cyclists were killed or
seriously injured in that period. If this were averaged over the whole
year then 250 children were killed or seriously injured each month in 2002.
The implications are that KSIs were substantially higher in 2002 than in
other years, that there were no child KSIs from January to April and
October to December and all child KSIs in 2002 involved cyclists. All of
which are surely untrue.

I'm puzzled.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "They never open their mouths without subtracting from
the sum of human knowledge." - Thomas Brackett Reed
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk

Michael MacClancy said:

Can anyone make sense of the figures in the following?

% Each month, more than 200 children under 15 are killed or severely
% injured by traffic. Children on bicycles are even more vulnerable during
% the summer months. Between May and September 2002, nearly 600 children
% each month were killed or severely injured on their bikes.

May to September 2002 is 5 months so 3000 child cyclists were killed or
seriously injured in that period. If this were averaged over the whole
year then 250 children were killed or seriously injured each month in 2002.
The implications are that KSIs were substantially higher in 2002 than in
other years, that there were no child KSIs from January to April and
October to December and all child KSIs in 2002 involved cyclists. All of
which are surely untrue.

I'm puzzled.

The May - September period does include the school summer holidays,
probably maximum bike use during that time?

--
Terry Duckmanton.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/terry.duckmanton
A website mostly dedicated to cycling

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 16:33:12 +0100,

Simon Mason said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sounds hopeful? Sadly not. It degenerates inito victim-blaming.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1270483,00.html

The 600 children per month killed or seriously injured needs looking at.
Since only 100 of all cyclists are killed per year, lumping in the deaths
with the injuries is being a bit alarmist. Judging by the lardy children
around here, the obesity will kill them before a car will.

This quaters IAM magazine is just out and has a short bit "Sharing the Road"
which is pretty good. Steven Norris states "The fact is that there are 2500
cyclists killed or seriously injured each year and motorists can play a key
part in cutting that figure."

ISTR the article said that there were 200 children per month raising to
600 per month in the summer months killed or seriously injured. Me thinks
BeHIT has been involved in this bit of propoganda in the Grauniad.

Tim.
--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/

As J.S. Dean wrote in 1947...

'..."education" is the worst possible training for the children as the
drivers of the future since it teaches them to believe that the driver
is the master of the road and that the only role for the other
road-users, including the youngest children and the oldest and most
infirm persons, is to keep out of his way and that if they are killed
or maimed through not doing so this is something they deserve, Much of
the motor slaughter may, indeed, be traced directly to the yearly
appearance on the roads of young drivers brought up in this evil and
destructive belief. Secondly, it is the worst possible training for
the children as the citizens of the future, i.e. that they should be
taught to accept the spectacle of the motor slaughter, with all its
implications. as normal and as something to which they must submit
without question. The spectacle of children passing from, one
classroom where they have been told about the "great traditions of
British freedom" to another where a police officer tells them that
unless they keep out of the way of the motorist they will be killed or
maimed and, by implication, will deserve to be, is neither pleasant
not encouraging.'

'...The question of the general effects of this "education" on the
minds of young children hardly lies within the scope of this work, but
brief reference to it may be made:

A simple child
That lightly draws her breath
And feels her life in every limb,
What should she know of death?

Everything, say the "education" propagandists. Put the idea of death
and destruction deep into their minds. Never let them forget it. Fill
their lives with it. Teach them fear. Make them frightened and keep
them frightened.'

http://www.motorcarnage.org.uk/motorcarnage/JSDean.html

David Martin said:

I particularly liked this one..

10. What noise does a bicycle travelling at 25mph make just before it hits
you?

...d

What I despise about this question is the passive position "...before it hits you?" - which is, of course, perverse. What in reality is much more likely is "...you hitting the bike?" . Of course the writer seems more concerned with alienating readers as as would occur by presenting a more realistic scenario of them as more likely to be the active party doing hitting the cyclist.

Roger