Fatality in D.C.

David Reuteler said:

that's also how i deal with american beer: guinness, guinness, guinness,
guinness, miller, miller .. ad nauseum.

Beamish is better. Beamish and Bass half and half in 32 ounce glasses.
Help you forget the damn pineapple on the pizza...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Claire Petersky said:

"the black rose" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Keats said:

So ... does pineapple /really/ belong on pizza? ;-)

YES!!!!!

-km, who only eats pizza if there's pineapple on it

Would you guys quit talking about pizza? I did a pretty gnarly 70 miler
today as my last hurrah before RSVP, and I am *ravenous*. My husband's gone
to fetch the pies, which are:

Pie #1: Fontina and mozzarella cheeses, roasted garlic, mushrooms, fresh
tomatoes, goat cheese, parsley and kalamata olives on an olive oil base
Pie #2: Salami, italian sausage and mushroom on a red sauce
plus a
large "Pagliaccio" salad: green leaf lettuce tossed with garbanzo beans,
diced red pepper, cheese, salami, red onion

I can't wait!

So how were they? The first one sounds really good to me if sprinkled
with pineapple. :-D

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Beamish is better. Beamish and Bass half and half in 32 ounce glasses.
Help you forget the damn pineapple on the pizza...

If forgetfulness is the goal, vodka is even better. Taken in sufficient
quantities it will help you forget the pineapple, the pizza, or even ever being
hungry and it will do it all without those annoying interruptions to use the
bathroom. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Hunrobe said:

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Beamish is better. Beamish and Bass half and half in 32 ounce glasses.
Help you forget the damn pineapple on the pizza...

If forgetfulness is the goal, vodka is even better.

Mm. Grey Goose.

-km

--
the black rose
proud to be owned by a yorkie
http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts

the black rose said:

Hunrobe said:

Quoted message said:

Curtis L. Russell [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Beamish is better. Beamish and Bass half and half in 32 ounce glasses.
Help you forget the damn pineapple on the pizza...

If forgetfulness is the goal, vodka is even better.

Mm. Grey Goose.

now you're talking.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

-km

Hunrobe said:

If forgetfulness is the goal, vodka is even better.

I'm not so sure that stuff is good for you.

There was a serious article in Scientific American a few years ago. The
author's thesis was that beer and wine are Good Things, beverages
without which the human race might not have survived. But that
distilled alcohol seemed to be something else again, something that
comes with far more negatives than positives.

Not that I never drink it, of course...

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Frank Krygowski said:

There was a serious article in Scientific American a few years ago. The
author's thesis was that beer and wine are Good Things, beverages
without which the human race might not have survived. But that
distilled alcohol seemed to be something else again, something that
comes with far more negatives than positives.

rubbish! i would not have survived grad school if it were not for jack
daniels.
--
david reuteler
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Two sources agree, one does not.

Quoted message said:

Tentatively accept the majority report but keep an open mind and
discount 33% of the majority report's content until all the facts
are in.

Now I have you at a disadvantage, because you did not check the
fourth report. I said that I had pictures and I had the name.

About the only thing you and I can agree on is that coffee is a
good thing...

Seriously, most of this thread is about a single uninformed traffic
radio report that seriously misrepresented the facts, due no
doubt to its early presentation.

And it disturbs me that the early reportage was mainly concerned
with the fact that there was a traffic jam rather than that there
was a cyclist down.

This is the second time this year that a commuter was killed by a
truck in DC, the first time was a hit and run on a Naval Research Lab
employee in March.

That's high for DC, we've all ready got our quota for the year.

Usually it's about one or two a year, that's why it's news.

This is not including the guy who crashed single vehicle on his
Lightspeed at Hains Point (perfectly flat) and was found dead with
no ID except the keys to a BMW in his pocket.

(I am really not kidding about that.)

So my point is stuff happens.

I happen to like pineapple on my pizza. With a few grains of salt.

So here's the photos, from NBC4:

http://www.nbc4.com/traffic/3596216/detail.html

So the WTOP report was in error, and we saw a bunch of ill informed
commentary which occurred without adequate fact checking.

We STILL don't know who was exactly where on last Friday morning, but
we do know who was dead and who was alive.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 00:30:57 -0400, "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This is not including the guy who crashed single vehicle on his
Lightspeed at Hains Point (perfectly flat) and was found dead with
no ID except the keys to a BMW in his pocket.

I hadn't heard about that.

What a way to go! There are crashable roads out here in Fairfax, but
I can't imagine buying the farm (or the Lightspeed) at Hains Point.
Did he have a heart attack and crash or something?

Quoted message said:

(I am really not kidding about that.)

So my point is stuff happens.

I happen to like pineapple on my pizza. With a few grains of salt.

So here's the photos, from NBC4:

http://www.nbc4.com/traffic/3596216/detail.html

So the WTOP report was in error, and we saw a bunch of ill informed
commentary which occurred without adequate fact checking.

The WRC website does include this bit of encouragement:

"It's tragedy in the sense that someone was making, we think, the
right commuting choice," said Dan Tangherlini, director of the D.C.
Transportation Department. Tangherlini said drivers need to realize
they are sharing the road with bikers."

It's amusing how anti-cyclist WTOP seems to be, (from this, and the
tone of its reporters on road closures in past Bike DC events) and yet
it still is a principal sponsor for WABA's Bike DC ride.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

We STILL don't know who was exactly where on last Friday morning, but
we do know who was dead and who was alive.

Quoted message said:

I hadn't heard about that.

Quoted message said:

What a way to go! There are crashable roads out here in Fairfax, but
I can't imagine buying the farm (or the Lightspeed) at Hains Point.
Did he have a heart attack and crash or something?

Just something I ran across whilst researching the thread topic.

All they stated was that he was one dead cyclist.

Absolutely no follow up or it was buried on the back pages, the
police posted a picture of the Litespeed (spelling, I know) to
see if anyone recognised the bike.

Asian-American guy, don't know if he was wearing a helmet, you
can forget the BMW as it is long gone.

Another case of anonymous death in the city, I'm sure his friends
and family are aware but it didn't make the news that I can see.

Just today a kid got nailed inside the city limits when, on a
new bike, he rode out in front of a van. Instant fatality.

We have one of the best reporting systems in the country in the
TARAS database, which measures collision incidence and slices and
dices according to time of day, location, age, sex and modality of
collision participant.

Unfortunately the reporting system does not discriminate helmet
wearers, nor does it parse injury.

The fatalities are rare enough to be accorded special treatment.

So we can develop a model of what happens on DC streets generally
in terms of unfavorable traffic interactions, defined as collisions
between unwilling participants.

The data shows about what you'd expect.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Quoted message said:

"Eric S. Sande" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Seriously, most of this thread is about a single uninformed traffic
radio report that seriously misrepresented the facts, due no
doubt to its early presentation.

And it disturbs me that the early reportage was mainly concerned
with the fact that there was a traffic jam rather than that there
was a cyclist down.

As I said earlier, I am not exactly unbiased where the media- especially the
electronic media- is concerned so the inaccuracies and inconsistencies don't
really surprise me but, and god how I hate defending them, the *immediate* news
story IS the traffic jam. They are obligated to report that and reporting it
can actually be a public service on a couple of levels. It can help prevent
more traffic tie-ups that can lead to impatient drivers taking foolish risks to
"make up for lost time" and it can ease the pressure on police to hurry up and
open the road. Wrong though it is, that pressure is there and has resulted in
more than a few rushed, haphazard crash investigations in much the same way
that the pressure to be first with a story results in reporting like that we
are talking about.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Quoted message said:

Luigi de Guzman [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

the black rose
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mm. Grey Goose.

Quoted message said:

now you're talking.

-Luigi

Bartender: "Yes sir?"
Me: "Vodka gimlet, rocks"
Bartender: "Any particular brand?"
Me: "I don't care. Whatever you have that's not moving well and is made from
potatoes."
<g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Quoted message said:

Frank Krygowski [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

There was a serious article in Scientific American a few years ago. The
author's thesis was that beer and wine are Good Things, beverages
without which the human race might not have survived. But that
distilled alcohol seemed to be something else again, something that
comes with far more negatives than positives.

Not that I never drink it, of course...

That sounds suspiciously like, "It is bad for me so I only do it a little bit."
<g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

=v= Reports of fatalities are relevant in particular because
of (1) a media that insists on imposing a narrative voice that
exonerates motorists and focuses mainly on helmet-wearing even
when such is irrelevant, (2) widespread belief that "accidents"
are just inevitable unfortunate events rather than the result
of anything that someone ought to take responsibility for,
(2a) the juxtaposition of standard admissions of deadly criminal
neglect ("I didn't see anything"/"the bike suddenly swerved out
of nowhere"😉 with official exoneration, and (3) perpetuation of
flawed statistics that blame bicyclists for most of our deaths
and injuries.
<_Jym_>

Quoted message said:

Jym Dyer [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Reports of fatalities are relevant in particular because
of (1) a media that insists on imposing a narrative voice that
exonerates motorists and focuses mainly on helmet-wearing even
when such is irrelevant, (2) widespread belief that "accidents"
are just inevitable unfortunate events rather than the result
of anything that someone ought to take responsibility for,
(2a) the juxtaposition of standard admissions of deadly criminal
neglect ("I didn't see anything"/"the bike suddenly swerved out
of nowhere"😉 with official exoneration, and (3) perpetuation of
flawed statistics that blame bicyclists for most of our deaths
and injuries.
<_Jym_>

You forgot the other correlary to # 2, Jym. Call it 2 (b). That's the belief
that is an article of faith (faith- a strong belief in something in the absence
of evidence) among many, that the best way to determine who is responsible is
simply to compare the injuries suffered. The one with lesser or no injuries
*must* be at fault while the more injured party must be absolved of any
responsibility. Any evidence to the contrary must of course be flawed and
biased at best and malicious fabrications at worst.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Hunrobe said:

You forgot the other correlary to # 2, Jym. Call it 2 (b). That's the

belief

Quoted message said:

that is an article of faith (faith- a strong belief in something in the

absence

Quoted message said:

of evidence) among many, that the best way to determine who is responsible

is

Quoted message said:

simply to compare the injuries suffered. The one with lesser or no

injuries

Quoted message said:

*must* be at fault while the more injured party must be absolved of any
responsibility. Any evidence to the contrary must of course be flawed and
biased at best and malicious fabrications at worst.

The proverb for that is "Nobody ever got themselves killed." Another would
be "Darwin was wrong."

Austin

Bob Hunt said:

Quoted message said:

Reports of fatalities are relevant in particular because of (1) a
media that insists on imposing a narrative voice that exonerates
motorists and focuses mainly on helmet-wearing even when such is
irrelevant, (2) widespread belief that "accidents" are just
inevitable unfortunate events rather than the result of anything
that someone ought to take responsibility for, (2a) the
juxtaposition of standard admissions of deadly criminal neglect ("I
didn't see anything"/"the bike suddenly swerved out of nowhere"😉
with official exoneration, and (3) perpetuation of flawed
statistics that blame bicyclists for most of our deaths and
injuries.

Quoted message said:

You forgot the other corollary to # 2, Jym. Call it 2 (b). That's
the belief that is an article of faith (faith- a strong belief in
something in the absence of evidence) among many, that the best way
to determine who is responsible is simply to compare the injuries
suffered. The one with lesser or no injuries *must* be at fault
while the more injured party must be absolved of any
responsibility. Any evidence to the contrary must of course be
flawed and biased at best and malicious fabrications at worst.

I'm not sure to whom you are referring with the "injured" here but
that never comes up in the accident reports I read. The all absolving
phrase is "I didn't see him."... that is unless it is a pedestrian
that was struck, and then the motorist is the loser because all
drivers are at some time pedestrians and have understanding for that
situation.

Locally a driver made a left turn (from Alpine Rd. into Westridge Rd.)
striking a rider head-on and killing him. "I didn't see him."
absolved the driver. The victim was a rider whom I saw on that road
daily on my ride to work. The incident occurred on a straight section
of Alpine road. Not that this is not properly called an accident but
rather an incident. The word accident also lends a faultless tone to
the report.

I found reporting to be a classic of treating bicyclists as people
engaged in a dangerous activity on public roads and that they deserve
what they get. That he was not wearing a helmet was prominently
stated in the causes of the collision. From what I read here in
wreck.bike, this mentality is not reserved for non-bicyclists.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I found reporting to be a classic of treating bicyclists as people
engaged in a dangerous activity on public roads

somewhat true I think

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I'm not sure to whom you are referring with the "injured" here but
that never comes up in the accident reports I read. The all absolving
phrase is "I didn't see him."... that is unless it is a pedestrian
that was struck, and then the motorist is the loser because all
drivers are at some time pedestrians and have understanding for that
situation.

"I didn't see him" is (should be) an admission of guilt and incompetence,
instead of the excuse it currently is.
You're *supposed* to see things in the road.

Pete

Jym Dyer wrote in part:

<< Reports of fatalities are relevant in particular because
of ... >> <snip>

<< ...(3) perpetuation of
flawed statistics that blame bicyclists for most of our deaths
and injuries. >>

What bicycle accident statistics are NOT flawed, that's
what I'd like to know.

I think your assumption is wrong though: since only
15% or so of all bike accidents/injuries involve motor
vehicles, it's obvious that the majority of _injuries_
are due to cyclists' mistakes.

Fatalities are another matter. Most fatalities involve
collisions with motor vehicles. Among experienced
adult cyclists, most car-bike collisions occur when the
cyclist is riding lawfully. Fatalities of kids and teens,
on the other hand, are almost always the fault of the
rider.

Robert