100% OT; school holidays

Richard Goodman said:

"PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is about delivering education. it is about partneship between
schools, teachers, parents and pupils each repecting each other and
the rules of the school. Part of those rules are : holidays in
holday time, school in school time.

No, that is your opinion about what the rule should be. Perhaps it
is an actual rule of your school, but different schools and local
education authorities appear to have different rules. Some of them,
perhaps many or most (certainly it is the case where my daughter
attends) actually have a rule which says you can have up to ten days
absence in term time for holiday arrangements - we took eleven, two
years ago.

The legal position is that a school is not obliged to authorise ANY absence
in term time, and may record any holiday time as "unauthorised Absence" in
the pupil record.

The "ten day" rule to which you refer is in fact a legal threshold: below 10
days the school can do nothing beyond recording the absence as unauthorised.
More than 10 days the school can (legally) remove the child from the school
roll.

But be clear: there is no "right" to 10 days holiday in term time

Quoted message said:

This was to visit my parents in NZ, whom my daughter
hadn't seen since she was four and would not have been able to see
again for at least another four years, after her GCSE's and A levels
finish.

Most schools in that circumstance would authorise upto and beyond the 10
days. there are sound social/family reasons and clear educational benefit.

but there is a big difference between that and the families who regularly
take the whole of their holidays in term time.

"Sorry head we are taking jonny out to go for 3 weeks skiing" could quite
rightly be met with a "Don't bother coming back" response.

pk

Tumbleweed said:

Then every chid who is ever ill (and thus away from school)
'damages' your child as well? And every child that needs extra
tuition because its not as bright as yours 'damages' your child as
well? (Or maybe vice-versa, perhaps if your child is stupid you
should take it out of class to do all the others a favour?)

no, because funding/budgets/school organisation is designed to cope with
these things

A child who is off sick and then needs extra support will be funded by
drawing monies form reserves or some other budget head.

School funding takes into account the needs of the SEN kids

The issue is parents deliberately removing kids from school in term time.
not unavoidable absence.

pk

PK said:

School funding takes into account the needs of the SEN kids

Ha!

PK said:

"Sorry head we are taking jonny out to go for 3 weeks skiing" could quite
rightly be met with a "Don't bother coming back" response.

What's wrong with two weeks learning a new activity, experiencing a foreign
culture and most likely being able to put into practice the French or German
they've been learning at school (I doubt many take three weeks and most will
take one). Quite a few schools seem to think it perfectly OK to organise a
school ski trip in term time.

Tony

PK said:

no, because funding/budgets/school organisation is designed to cope with
these things

Bwahahahaha. Our kids' school is busy laying off teachers and cutting back as
a consequence of the failure of the government to fully fund the teacher's pay
rise.

Tony

PK said:

Tumbleweed said:

Then every chid who is ever ill (and thus away from school)
'damages' your child as well? And every child that needs extra
tuition because its not as bright as yours 'damages' your child as
well? (Or maybe vice-versa, perhaps if your child is stupid you
should take it out of class to do all the others a favour?)

no, because funding/budgets/school organisation is designed to cope with
these things

A child who is off sick and then needs extra support will be funded by
drawing monies form reserves or some other budget head.

School funding takes into account the needs of the SEN kids

What planet do you live on.
At my primary school, years are being combined because of lack of funding.

John B

PK said:

JohnB wrote:
.>> It is about delivering education. it is about partneship between

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

schools, teachers, parents and pupils each repecting each other and
the rules of the school. Part of those rules are : holidays in
holday time, school in school time.

Of course it is.
My 10 year old daughter has just brought in her report.
Under more than one subject it says:
"Some entries may be missing or incomplete due to unavailability of
staff".

move to a better school.

We already have.

Perhaps you could suggest how I can send my chldren to school 15 miles
away when there is no PT.

John B

PK said:

The legal position is that a school is not obliged to authorise ANY absence
in term time, and may record any holiday time as "unauthorised Absence" in
the pupil record.

It seems its a one way process then.
My youngest is expected to go on a one-week residential trip at an
outdoor centre in September, while my elder children have trips to
Germany, France and various locations in the UK in their diaries. Why
are these 'legal'?
One of these trips is a day at Thorpe Park for heavens sake.

IMO a day to the Science Museum would have more educational value than
some rides on a roller coaster, but of course you will be able to tell
me why I am wrong.

John B

"JohnB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What planet do you live on.
At my primary school, years are being combined because of lack of funding.

we just ended the las financila year with a £50k plus underspend.

pk

PK said:

"JohnB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What planet do you live on.
At my primary school, years are being combined because of lack of funding.

we just ended the las financila year with a £50k plus underspend.

Then you presumably sit in that small percentage of schools which, because of
staff grade and pay profiles benefitted from the last pay settlement. Many
ended up significantly worse off and in our area there are cut backs going on
at many schools because their particular staff profiles meant they lost big
time.

Tony

audrey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(MartinM) said:

As many of the people on this NG appear to have children of school
age, what does the panel think of proposals by the government to
reduce the cost of taking holidays in school holidays. Can they do it
anyway? Is this the soft option to the £100 fine idea?
Presumably the tour operators will counter by saying it's not school
holiday holidays that are expensive, it's the term time ones that are
cheap.

I think too often those complaining about the cost of holidays in
school hols make it sound as if annual trips to Forn Parts are a basic
human right.

It's not just Forn parts; Center Parcs, caravans in Cornwall etc are
all double in the summer hols. My experience is that by the time you
add the little extras to a Uk holiday a holiday abroad is not that
much more. But then I spent many of my school years hols camping
(usually in Wet Welsh Wales) and loved it.

(MartinM) said:

As many of the people on this NG appear to have children of school
age, what does the panel think of proposals by the government to
reduce the cost of taking holidays in school holidays. Can they do it
anyway? Is this the soft option to the £100 fine idea?
Presumably the tour operators will counter by saying it's not school
holiday holidays that are expensive, it's the term time ones that are
cheap.

As a teacher I wholeheartedly support the initiative. Paying for 13
weeks holiday a year costs me a small fortune.

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:05:21 +0000 (UTC), "PK"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

A child who is off sick and then needs extra support will be funded by
drawing monies form reserves or some other budget head.

And, given that staffing is around 85% of the average school budget,
that can have quite an impact. No extra funding is available to meet
this eventuality.

Quoted message said:

School funding takes into account the needs of the SEN kids

In your dreams. Even i the parents consent to the child being
staemented (which in our case some have not) the funding often falls
well short of the actual cost of providing support. More money out
of reserves. If the school has any left after the sickness and
introducing an Early Years Unit in line with County policy but which
was only part-funded.

Quoted message said:

The issue is parents deliberately removing kids from school in term time.
not unavoidable absence.

True.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:44:56 +0000 (UTC), "PK"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

we just ended the las financila year with a £50k plus underspend.

Presumably one of the small number of inner-city schools which are
getting all the cash, then. Send a cheque to me, we need a new hall
in order to deliver the national curriculum on PE and the Government
have three times failed to fund our bid (once because the civil
servants wrote the wrong number in one box on our bid making it seem
as if we had one empty classroom; the funding body said they realised
this was a mistake but had to turn us down anyway because they had to
go by the figures as presented).

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 09:15:10 +0100, "Richard Goodman"
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

The government doesn't spend enough on
education, directly and indirectly creates a system of inequalities where
many parents don't want to send their children to their most local school,
leading to the damned 'school run',

Actually we would love to have gone to our local school, but the
councillors living further away from it wanted to ensure they remained
in catchment (mainly to keep the price of their houses up, I guess) so
we couldn't.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Roos Eisma said:

Simon Brooke said:

The overcrowding is a matter of the island having about 900% more people
on it than it can reasonably support, and lifestyle doesn't make the
least little bit of difference to that!

I vaguely remember reading that even the Netherlands would be able to
support its entire population by more economic use of resources. It did
however involve everybody becoming vegetarian...

Roos

"Remember: Tuesday is Soylent Green day."

--
Jules

(MartinM) said:

audrey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 17 Jun 2004 23:52:50 -0700, [email hidden] (MartinM) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think too often those complaining about the cost of holidays in
school hols make it sound as if annual trips to Forn Parts are a basic
human right.

It's not just Forn parts; Center Parcs, caravans in Cornwall etc are
all double in the summer hols. My experience is that by the time you
add the little extras to a Uk holiday a holiday abroad is not that
much more. But then I spent many of my school years hols camping
(usually in Wet Welsh Wales) and loved it.

Oh, I know all about the cost of caravans in Cornwall in August (we
are tenters but sometimes go away with a friend who is allergic to
open air and canvas, and insists on a 'van inspite of ludicrous
prices). But I have rarely heard MPs/journos complaining about the
price of caravans or B&Bs. Or campsite pitches, for that matter.

--

email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:22:45 +0100, Jules
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

"Remember: Tuesday is Soylent Green day."

Make room! Make room!

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:05:04 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

() said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Jules

(') said:

England's not down south!

Errrr... it _is_, you know.

Nah. It's well North. :-)
--
Matt K
Dunedin, NZ

On Sat, 19 Jun 2004 10:22:58 +1200, Whingin' Pom
<[email hidden]> wrote in message
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

England's not down south!

Errrr... it _is_, you know.

Nah. It's well North. :-)

Hmph! At least it's the right way up...

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University