2006 T-Mob Tour Team... doped
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Hounded by frenchies in Europe, and by musette, saluki and cyclingcyclone wearing full disco kit in America...I'm surprised he didn't go further.Bro Deal said:
I think that as well. There were/are almost certainly other networks of blood doping and the one servicing USPS/Disco has not been uncovered. I think they were seriously scared off after OP but got their courage back in time for last year's Tour. Probably the days of whole-team blood doping are gone but I'd be shocked if Contador and Leipheimer weren't up to it last year.fscyclist said:
Wayne666 said:
Here's what the Sink said about Hincapie in the latest edition of ProCycling magazine:
PC: Did you really not get any more bags of blood during the Tour ? In the first time trial of that race, pretty much the entire T-Mobile team rode superbly, while many favorites were very poor. How did that happen ?
Sink: A lot of guys rode badly throughout the Tour - George Hincapie for example didn't ride like he had in the previous year. The same applied to plenty of others from Discovery.
PC: Lance Armstrong's partnership with Ferrari was, to say the least, hotly debated, and the Itailian rider Flippo Simeoni said under oath that Ferrari prescribed him EPO in the 19990's. Did none of this concern you ? (in relationship to Sinkewitz partnership with Ferrari)
Everyone is absolutely fascinated by this, but its no where as exciting as they think. Armstrong would have won the Tour without Ferrari, just as Ullrich finished on the podium at the Tour several times before he started working with Cecchini. At the time you're only thinking about your agenda and people should remember that help comes from more than once place.
PC Are you adamant that all got from Ferrari was training plans ?
PS: Yeah, now in hindsight I can give a logical explanation. I mean I couldn't say this at the time. I already had medical support available to me from elsewhere.
- Draw your own conclusions !
Right. Take a look at the tendenzy emergeing from OP document and Jaksche rivelazions -- capitan and the gregario is serviced by different medical nets. At least, we know now that was the case on TMOB and LS. I will bet anyone my middle testicol the same situation was Disco. I presuppose Armstrong used someone even JB was blind about. During the Tour Armstrong always had his own room. His segrecy and distrust of anyone are well knowed. Even Eki confirmed it a recent interview.fscyclist said:
Armstrong brain trust was Ferrari, his medical preparatore was certainly some American (from his cancer days) disconnected to the team. His gofers/delivery agents were his mother and her trustee.
The excellent cyclismag gave us the power measurements at Plateau de Beille: Contadope Rass,... were on the same level as Pantani , only 45s behind him with a lot of slowdown. So difficult to think they were clean, especially the top 10 !Wayne666 said:
http://www.cyclismag.com/article.php?sid=3466
I agree Ferrari was likely the brain's guy and not the muscle. Although I don't think his medical preparation was quite as secretive as you believe. I think other rider's in his inner circle knew what was going on with him as they were receiving similar treatments, although it wouldn't surprise me if they never actually saw Armstrong doing anything in the latter years. The couple of Floyd "leaks" which indicate likely team-wide blood doping would make some special US-based doctor simply redundant. I just assume it was some of the old ONCE docs Bruyneel brought along to the team. Who we can be fairly sure are dirty as dirty gets and yet haven't really been implicated in much of anything beyond the systematic team doping of old at ONCE.italiano said:
If Floyd ever cracks, he could put the nail in the coffin for all but the most delusional believer's of the Armstrong/USPS/Disco/Bruyneel myth.
There is a detailed article on the T-mobile doc investigation in velonews:
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13869.0.html
Excerpts:
[size=-1]"Eufemiano Fuentes used dog names like ‘Birillo' and ‘Piti' to archive the blood bags of his clients," Werner Franke observed wryly. "The Telekom- and T-Mobile doctors applied stickers of cartoon characters like Mickey Mouse to identify the blood they had in storage."
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[/size] [size=-1]Franke said he remains convinced that former T-Mobile rider Patrik Sinkewitz was not the only rider on the squad to be driven from Strasbourg to Freiburg after that year's first stage to re-infuse a pint of his own blood. Franke said that witness accounts vary as to the precise number of riders who arrived in Freiburg, but insists "at least five and possibly six or all seven riders from the reduced team went to Freiburg that night." [/size]
[size=-1]The distinction is critical for some, including Australian Michael Rogers and Germany's Andreas Klöden, both of whom have denied involvement with the two Freiburg doctors and say they remained in Strasbourg on the evening in question. Rogers continues to ride with the reorganized T-Mobile team, now Team High Road, and Klöden is a member of the Astana squad, reorganized under the management of former Discovery director Johan Bruyneel. [/size]
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[size=-1]The only remaining rider from the team now the object of the Freiburg investigations is Rogers. Stapleton is giving the former three-time world time trial champion the benefit of the doubt - at least for the moment. [/size]
[size=-1]"What we know is that Rogers was part of a very strictly controlled anti-doping program in 2007, and that he has complied entirely with our own anti-doping rules," Stapleton told Die Welt in November. "Michael has told us he was not involved in the doping practices which Sinkewitz has described. If the facts say otherwise, we will act and take our responsibilities." [/size]
http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/13869.0.html
Excerpts:
[size=-1]"Eufemiano Fuentes used dog names like ‘Birillo' and ‘Piti' to archive the blood bags of his clients," Werner Franke observed wryly. "The Telekom- and T-Mobile doctors applied stickers of cartoon characters like Mickey Mouse to identify the blood they had in storage."
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[/size] [size=-1]Franke said he remains convinced that former T-Mobile rider Patrik Sinkewitz was not the only rider on the squad to be driven from Strasbourg to Freiburg after that year's first stage to re-infuse a pint of his own blood. Franke said that witness accounts vary as to the precise number of riders who arrived in Freiburg, but insists "at least five and possibly six or all seven riders from the reduced team went to Freiburg that night." [/size]
[size=-1]The distinction is critical for some, including Australian Michael Rogers and Germany's Andreas Klöden, both of whom have denied involvement with the two Freiburg doctors and say they remained in Strasbourg on the evening in question. Rogers continues to ride with the reorganized T-Mobile team, now Team High Road, and Klöden is a member of the Astana squad, reorganized under the management of former Discovery director Johan Bruyneel. [/size]
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[size=-1]The only remaining rider from the team now the object of the Freiburg investigations is Rogers. Stapleton is giving the former three-time world time trial champion the benefit of the doubt - at least for the moment. [/size]
[size=-1]"What we know is that Rogers was part of a very strictly controlled anti-doping program in 2007, and that he has complied entirely with our own anti-doping rules," Stapleton told Die Welt in November. "Michael has told us he was not involved in the doping practices which Sinkewitz has described. If the facts say otherwise, we will act and take our responsibilities." [/size]
As far as I'm concerned there are three conclusions to all of this :
1.That riders and teams systematically operated a doping scam
2.That the cycling authorities were aware of these scams but did nothing until the respective civil authorities stepped in.
3.That the riders are too bloody stupid to realise that by doping, not only are they cheating, but that they have helped to destroy the sport and have put their own post-race lives at serious health risk.
1.That riders and teams systematically operated a doping scam
2.That the cycling authorities were aware of these scams but did nothing until the respective civil authorities stepped in.
3.That the riders are too bloody stupid to realise that by doping, not only are they cheating, but that they have helped to destroy the sport and have put their own post-race lives at serious health risk.
Tragedy of the commons. No rider will ever stop doping to help the sport because he gains a benefit from doping. As the money in the sport shrinks and contracts are harder to get, having better results than those who rider clean(ish) increases the chance of keeping your job. It's a non-virtuous cycle.limerickman said:
On point number (3) - IMHO I don't think that most of the riders thought they were cheating as we probably perceive it. I think they thought it was a condoned neccessity... as everyone (in their eyes) was doing it to varying degrees. Not that on principle they weren't cheating. But when a sport has institutionalized doping to that extent...and when the cyclist understands that it has been done in varying ways for decades...and that your team's management is (or almost) pushing it...and that to not take it would probably be the same decision as retiring from the pro scene...it is understandable that they made that decision...though not ideal or right.limerickman said:
The worst thing is that the riders have been the primary scapegoat for fault in the supply chain. The problem has always been that the authorities and promoters didn't really care to police it because it only involved extra cost and potential for scandal. Then the gap between reality (doping) and public perception (that riders were mostly clean) got too great.
Very perceptive weakness in the system that needs to be addressed or at least acknowledged going forward..Bro Deal said:
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