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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
4 March 2004
Last activity
19 March 2004
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Skiur
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  1. Joyce said:

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have set their laws to be the same. Kids can
    receive their learners permits at age 15, can apply and
    test for official license at 16. With the permit, they can
    only drive with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in
    the front seat with them. In order to receive their
    license, they have to submit a written and signed form
    listing 25 hours of practice driving time (An Illinois
    law). This doesn't sound like much, until you're the
    parent that has to make sure they accomplish this task. It
    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6 months, the 1 passenger restriction is
    lifted ... but there is still the *seat belt law* -
    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
    seatbelt regardless as to being in the front or rear seat
    (when riding with a driver under the age of
    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very surprised the police can even keep track of
    them all.

    Here you can apply for your provisional licence on your 17th
    birthday, and pass your test that day too if you like! I've
    had several friends do that: Kids of farmers who've been
    driving the farm stuff for years, since they were literally
    too small to reach all the pedals!

    For us for cars it doesn't matter where you sit you have to
    wear a seatbelt unless you have a job or medical exemption.
    I don't think car seats are mandatory, but they are advised.
    The wording is 'suitably restrained', I think. This can mean
    a car seat for tiddlers, a booster seat for larger kids, or
    one of those lap things that hold the seat belt into the
    right non-strangling position.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4 or
    40 pounds ... now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
    not have fit into a car seat at 8 years old - too heavy,
    too tall, whatever. Some people have made complaints that
    they would now have to go purchase larger vehicles, as 3
    or more car seats will not fit easily into the compacts
    that they own - yet they can't afford the more costly vans
    or suv's that would hold more seats. I do understand the
    logic behind the law, along with what they are trying to
    accomplish. I don't think it was very well thought out.
    Probably put into effect by men who never once had to deal
    with transporting multiple children. <g>

    Hah! Beaurocracy gorn mad, innit.

    Quoted message said:

    Joyce

    --

    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    diceyhome.free-online.co.ukdiceyhome.free-online.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

  2. What is with CA laws? Strict on the driving issues, yet I
    heard on the news tonite that they want to make an
    ammendment (or something) that will allow voting in state
    elections at the age of 14. 14 yr. old votes count as a
    quarter of a vote ... 16 yrs. old count as half a vote. Is
    it just me, or is this ridiculous? I know my kids didn't
    have a clue or care about the political issues, tax
    referendums or whatever were being voted for.

    Joyce

    On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:39:44 -0800, "Deb in Northern
    California"

    Quoted message said:

    California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary by
    state. Also the teen provisional license in California is
    NO passenger for the 1st 6 months under the age of 25. So
    the laws do vary by state, but only slightly.

    Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
    permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break
    (the week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6
    months before she can become licensed. She will be 16 and a
    few months when she gets her license then.

    Debbie

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Joyce wrote:

    > I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    > don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > requested a letter from


    the state)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    > vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
    > took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
    > other passengers.


    This law

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
    > more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    > moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > carry any passengers until I received clarification
    > from the state.

    Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
    UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a
    full licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
    car will legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have


    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    learners permits at age


    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can only


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound like


    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
    the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    their seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    Quoted message said:


    > Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
    > far unsuccessful,


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    > This has led to a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    > staying open later ...


    school

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    > And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
    > is meeting with a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
    > age of 8. That


    pretty much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
    > going home with


    friends,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?

    AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
    12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
    taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
    Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
    or 40 pounds ...


    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    would not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
    Some people have


    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
    vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
    own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
    seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
    to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>

    Joyce


  3. Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
    York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
    your driver's license until you are 17 years of age and
    there are restrictions. My best friend and her older
    brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their license
    at 16. They ended up moving to New Jersey and their little
    brother was really irritated that they could drive before
    him. In his particular case, they should have waited longer-
    but I digress.

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Joyce said:

    I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    requested a letter from


    the state)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
    took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
    other passengers.


    This law

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
    more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    carry any passengers until I received clarification
    from the state.

    Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
    you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
    legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have


    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
    permits at age


    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can only


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound like


    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
    the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
    seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
    far unsuccessful,


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    This has led to a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    staying open later ...


    school

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    activities later in the evenings with no busing
    available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
    meeting with a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
    age of 8. That


    pretty much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
    going home with


    friends,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?

    AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
    12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
    taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
    Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
    or 40 pounds ...


    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
    not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
    Some people have


    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
    vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
    own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
    seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
    to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>

    Joyce

  4. California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary by
    state. Also the teen provisional license in California is NO
    passenger for the 1st 6 months under the age of 25. So the
    laws do vary by state, but only slightly.

    Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
    permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break (the
    week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6 months
    before she can become licensed. She will be 16 and a few
    months when she gets her license then.

    Debbie

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Joyce said:

    I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    requested a letter from


    the state)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
    took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
    other passengers.


    This law

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
    more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    carry any passengers until I received clarification
    from the state.

    Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
    you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
    legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have


    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
    permits at age


    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can only


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound like


    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
    the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
    seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
    far unsuccessful,


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    This has led to a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    staying open later ...


    school

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    activities later in the evenings with no busing
    available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
    meeting with a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
    age of 8. That


    pretty much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
    going home with


    friends,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?

    AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
    12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
    taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
    Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
    or 40 pounds ...


    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
    not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
    Some people have


    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
    vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
    own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
    seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
    to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>

    Joyce

  5. "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Joyce said:

    I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    requested a letter from


    the state)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
    took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
    other passengers.


    This law

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
    more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    carry any passengers until I received clarification
    from the state.

    Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
    you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
    legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have


    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
    permits at age


    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can only


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound like


    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
    the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
    seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    I'm not sure if it is a federal law. NJ's min age for the
    learners permit is 16 and until the age of 18 you have
    various restrictions. At 18 you get your full license. Our
    seatbelt law applies to everyone in the car regardless of
    age. These laws seem to vary from state to state.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
    far unsuccessful,


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    This has led to a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    staying open later ...


    school

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    activities later in the evenings with no busing
    available at those


    hours.

    I'd love to see a 10 or 11pm curfew for kids under 18. The
    only exception would be if they are coming home from work.
    This would certainly cut down on their party time.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
    meeting with a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
    age of 8. That


    pretty much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
    going home with


    friends,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?

    AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
    12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
    taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
    Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
    or 40 pounds ...


    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
    not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
    Some people have


    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
    vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
    own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
    seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
    to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>

    NJ law is kids under 8 years old or under 85 pounds have to
    be in a car seat. We've had that law for about 5 years now.

  6. It seems to me that my niece, who lives in Missouri had 40 hours with an
    adult before she could test. DH let her drive while she stayed with us here
    in Illinois. Man am I glad we are child free, Lee
    Joyce <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Joyce said:

    I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    requested a letter from


    the state)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
    took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
    other passengers.


    This law

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
    more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    carry any passengers until I received clarification
    from the state.

    Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
    you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
    legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have


    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
    permits at age


    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can only


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound like


    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
    the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
    seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
    far unsuccessful,


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    This has led to a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    staying open later ...


    school

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    activities later in the evenings with no busing
    available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
    meeting with a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
    age of 8. That


    pretty much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
    going home with


    friends,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?

    AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
    12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
    taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
    Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
    or 40 pounds ...


    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
    not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
    Some people have


    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
    vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
    own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
    seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
    to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>

    Joyce

  7. I agree, I know even though I was allowed to vote at 18, I
    did not register to vote until I was 22 or 23. Have voted
    ever since too. I don't think a child of 14-16 are old
    enough to make an informed decision and that is what voting
    should be, an informed decision on an issue so that you have
    a say so in it. I know a bunch of school boards, that would
    like for the kids to vote so they can get the school bond
    issues to go through. Funny thing is, the politician that
    was proposing that amendment said we had record low voter
    turn out and that was why he wanted to get more people into
    the polls. I think if people were more informed they would
    be more likely to go to the polls and vote.

    Debbie

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What is with CA laws? Strict on the driving issues, yet I
    heard on the


    news

    Quoted message said:

    tonite that they want to make an ammendment (or something)
    that will allow


    voting

    Quoted message said:

    in state elections at the age of 14. 14 yr. old votes
    count as a quarter


    of a

    Quoted message said:

    vote ... 16 yrs. old count as half a vote. Is it just me,
    or is this


    ridiculous?

    Quoted message said:

    I know my kids didn't have a clue or care about the
    political issues, tax referendums or whatever were being
    voted for.

    Joyce

    On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:39:44 -0800, "Deb in Northern
    California"

    Quoted message said:

    California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary
    by state. Also


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    teen provisional license in California is NO passenger
    for the 1st 6


    months

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    under the age of 25. So the laws do vary by state, but
    only slightly.

    Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
    permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break
    (the week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6
    months before she can become licensed. She will be


    16

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and a few months when she gets her license then.

    Debbie

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    wrote:

    >Joyce wrote:
    >
    >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    >> don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:

    >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    >> requested a letter


    from

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the state)

    Quoted message said:

    >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    >> vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:

    >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
    >> I took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:

    >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
    >> no other


    passengers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This law

    Quoted message said:

    >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
    >> for more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:

    >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    >> moments, as I


    would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    not let her

    Quoted message said:

    >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
    >> from the state.
    >
    >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
    >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have
    >a full licence, you can carry as many passengers as
    >the car will legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
    all the states


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    learners permits at


    age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can


    only

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound


    like

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this


    task.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    still the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    their seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
    law. I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    >
    >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
    >> so far


    unsuccessful,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is

    Quoted message said:

    >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    >> This has led to


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:

    >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    >> staying open later


    ...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    school

    Quoted message said:

    >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    >> available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:

    >>
    >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
    >> is meeting with


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:

    >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
    >> the age of 8.


    That

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pretty much

    Quoted message said:

    >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    >> school, going home


    with

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    friends,

    Quoted message said:

    >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    >
    >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age
    >of 12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's
    >already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in
    >the past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as
    >well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
    4 or 40 pounds


    ...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    would not have


    fit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    whatever. Some people


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    larger vehicles, as


    3

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
    they own - yet


    they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
    more seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    trying to


    accomplish.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men


    who

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple
    children. <g>

    Joyce

  8. In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you are
    only allowed to drive with an instructor or a parent until
    17. I like the new restrictions that they put on kids here.
    Too many kids get little or no driving experience but have
    their drivers license. My step daughter had her 6 hours of
    instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the test on
    tuesday. I'm amazed that she passed. It took her another 6
    months before she could navigate a parking lot correctly.
    The schools stopped giving driving class due to the high
    cost of insurance. The local driving schools pump out kids
    so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid has
    learned to drive or not. They got their money. Too many high
    school kids have been killed because they did not have
    proper driving instruction or meaning full 6 hours of
    experience before getting their license. As a parent I am
    grateful for the recent law changes.

    Laura (from NJ)

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
    York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
    your driver's license until you are


    17

    Quoted message said:

    years of age and there are restrictions. My best friend
    and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get
    their license at 16. They


    ended

    Quoted message said:

    up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
    really irritated that they could drive before him. In his
    particular case, they should have waited longer-but I
    digress.

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Joyce wrote:

    > I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    > don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > requested a letter


    from

    Quoted message said:

    the state)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    > vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
    > took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
    > other


    passengers.

    Quoted message said:

    This law

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
    > more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    > moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > carry any passengers until I received clarification
    > from the state.

    Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
    UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have
    a full licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
    car will legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
    all the states


    have

    Quoted message said:

    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    learners permits at


    age

    Quoted message said:

    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can


    only

    Quoted message said:

    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound


    like

    Quoted message said:

    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
    the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    their seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
    law. I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    Quoted message said:


    > Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
    > far


    unsuccessful,

    Quoted message said:

    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    > This has led to


    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    > staying open later


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    school

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    > And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
    > is meeting with


    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
    > the age of 8.


    That

    Quoted message said:

    pretty much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    > school, going home


    with

    Quoted message said:

    friends,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?

    AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
    12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
    taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the
    past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as
    tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
    or 40 pounds


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    would not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
    Some people


    have

    Quoted message said:

    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    larger vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
    they own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
    more seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    trying to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple
    children. <g>

    Joyce


  9. skiur said:

    Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
    York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
    your driver's license until you are 17 years of age and
    there are restrictions. My best friend and her older
    brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their license
    at 16. They ended up moving to New Jersey and their little
    brother was really irritated that they could drive before
    him. In his particular case, they should have waited longer-
    but I digress.

    New York I can place, but when it gets to Idaho or Utah,
    I get lost!

    I'm a bit wooly on our driving laws as I'm a non driver.
    Tried learning (was quite good at it, aparantly!) but hated
    it. After I had to stop lessons due to falling down the
    stairs, I gave up.
    --

    Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
    diceyhome.free-online.co.ukdiceyhome.free-online.co.uk
    Click on Kate's Pages and explore!

  10. Where in NJ?

    Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area

    "Laura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    Quoted message said:

    In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
    are only allowed


    to

    Quoted message said:

    drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like the
    new restrictions that they put on kids here. Too many kids
    get little or no driving experience but have their drivers
    license. My step daughter had her 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the test
    on tuesday. I'm amazed that she passed. It took her
    another 6 months before she could navigate a parking lot
    correctly. The schools stopped giving driving class due to
    the high cost of insurance. The local driving schools pump
    out kids so fast just to make money. They don't care if
    the kid has learned to


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    or not. They got their money. Too many high school kids
    have been killed because they did not have proper driving
    instruction or meaning full 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of experience before getting their license. As a parent I
    am grateful for the recent law changes.

    Laura (from NJ)

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from
    New York City


    incase

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
    license until you


    are

    Quoted message said:

    17

    Quoted message said:

    years of age and there are restrictions. My best friend
    and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and could
    get their license at 16. They


    ended

    Quoted message said:

    up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
    really irritated


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they could drive before him. In his particular case,
    they should have waited longer-but I digress.

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    wrote:

    >Joyce wrote:
    >
    >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    >> don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:

    >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    >> requested a letter


    from

    Quoted message said:

    the state)

    Quoted message said:

    >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    >> vehicle that


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    under the age

    Quoted message said:

    >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
    >> I took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:

    >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
    >> no other


    passengers.

    Quoted message said:

    This law

    Quoted message said:

    >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
    >> for more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:

    >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    >> moments, as I


    would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    not let her

    Quoted message said:

    >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
    >> from the state.
    >
    >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
    >UK, you have


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car
    >will legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
    all the states


    have

    Quoted message said:

    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    learners permits at


    age

    Quoted message said:

    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can


    only

    Quoted message said:

    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
    front seat with


    them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a
    written and signed


    form

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound


    like

    Quoted message said:

    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this


    task.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    still the *seat


    belt

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    their seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
    law. I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    >
    >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
    >> so far


    unsuccessful,

    Quoted message said:

    is

    Quoted message said:

    >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    >> This has led


    to

    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:

    >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    >> staying open later


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    school

    Quoted message said:

    >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    >> available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:

    >>
    >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
    >> which is meeting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:

    >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
    >> the age of 8.


    That

    Quoted message said:

    pretty much

    Quoted message said:

    >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    >> school, going home


    with

    Quoted message said:

    friends,

    Quoted message said:

    >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    >
    >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    >James that


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
    >grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already taller
    >than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past. Not
    >skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
    4 or 40 pounds


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    would not have


    fit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    whatever. Some people


    have

    Quoted message said:

    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    larger vehicles, as


    3

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
    they own - yet


    they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
    more seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    trying to


    accomplish.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men


    who

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple
    children. <g>

    Joyce


  11. Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
    Princeton.

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Where in NJ?

    Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area

    "Laura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    Quoted message said:

    In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
    are only


    allowed

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
    the new


    restrictions

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little or
    no driving experience but have their drivers license. My
    step daughter had her 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
    test on tuesday.


    I'm

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
    before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
    schools stopped giving driving


    class

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
    schools pump out


    kids

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
    has learned to


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    or not. They got their money. Too many high school kids
    have been killed because they did not have proper
    driving instruction or meaning full 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of experience before getting their license. As a parent
    I am grateful


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the recent law changes.

    Laura (from NJ)

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from
    New York City


    incase

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
    license until you


    are

    Quoted message said:

    17

    Quoted message said:

    years of age and there are restrictions. My best
    friend and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and
    could get their license at 16. They


    ended

    Quoted message said:

    up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
    really irritated


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they could drive before him. In his particular case,
    they should have waited longer-but I digress.

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
    <[email hidden]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Joyce wrote:
    > >
    > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings.
    > >> I don't know


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    exact wording
    > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > >> requested a letter


    from

    Quoted message said:

    the state)
    > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
    > >> the vehicle that


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    under the age
    > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
    > >> ... I took that


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mean that they
    > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
    > >> but no other


    passengers.

    Quoted message said:

    This law
    > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
    > >> for more than 6
    months when the
    > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    > >> moments, as I


    would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    not let her
    > >> carry any passengers until I received
    > >> clarification from the


    state.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >
    > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
    > >the UK, you have


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
    > >car will legally hold.
    >
    > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
    > or all the states


    have

    Quoted message said:

    set
    > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    > learners permits


    at

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    age

    Quoted message said:

    15, can
    > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    > permit, they


    can

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    only

    Quoted message said:

    drive
    > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
    > front seat with


    them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In order
    > to receive their license, they have to submit a
    > written and signed


    form

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    listing 25
    > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
    > This doesn't


    sound

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    like

    Quoted message said:

    much,
    > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    > accomplish this


    task.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It
    > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
    > holding license for


    6

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    months, the
    > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    > still the *seat


    belt

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    law* -
    > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    > their seatbelt
    regardless as
    > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with
    > a driver under


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    age of
    > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
    > law. I'm


    very

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    surprised
    > the police can even keep track of them all.
    >
    > >
    > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
    > >> but so far


    unsuccessful,

    Quoted message said:

    is
    > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
    > >> week. This has led


    to

    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of
    > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    > >> staying open


    later

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    school
    > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > >> available at


    those

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    hours.
    > >>
    > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
    > >> which is meeting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of
    > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
    > >> until the age of 8.


    That

    Quoted message said:

    pretty much
    > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    > >> school, going home


    with

    Quoted message said:

    friends,
    > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    > >
    > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
    > >for James that


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
    > >grew out of it last year, aged


    8!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
    > >taught in the past. Not


    skinny,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
    >
    > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
    > was 4 or 40


    pounds

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    now it's
    > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    > would not have


    fit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    into a
    > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    > whatever. Some


    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have

    Quoted message said:

    made
    > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    > larger vehicles,


    as

    Quoted message said:

    3

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or more
    > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
    > they own - yet


    they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    can't
    > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
    > more seats. I


    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    understand
    > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    > trying to


    accomplish.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't
    > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
    > into effect by men


    who

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    never
    > once had to deal with transporting multiple
    > children. <g>
    >
    > Joyce
    >


  12. Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
    Princeton.

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Where in NJ?

    Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area

    "Laura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    Quoted message said:

    In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
    are only


    allowed

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
    the new


    restrictions

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little or
    no driving experience but have their drivers license. My
    step daughter had her 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
    test on tuesday.


    I'm

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
    before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
    schools stopped giving driving


    class

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
    schools pump out


    kids

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
    has learned to


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    or not. They got their money. Too many high school kids
    have been killed because they did not have proper
    driving instruction or meaning full 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of experience before getting their license. As a parent
    I am grateful


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the recent law changes.

    Laura (from NJ)

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from
    New York City


    incase

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
    license until you


    are

    Quoted message said:

    17

    Quoted message said:

    years of age and there are restrictions. My best
    friend and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and
    could get their license at 16. They


    ended

    Quoted message said:

    up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
    really irritated


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they could drive before him. In his particular case,
    they should have waited longer-but I digress.

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
    <[email hidden]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Joyce wrote:
    > >
    > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings.
    > >> I don't know


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    exact wording
    > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > >> requested a letter


    from

    Quoted message said:

    the state)
    > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
    > >> the vehicle that


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    under the age
    > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
    > >> ... I took that


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    mean that they
    > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
    > >> but no other


    passengers.

    Quoted message said:

    This law
    > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
    > >> for more than 6
    months when the
    > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    > >> moments, as I


    would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    not let her
    > >> carry any passengers until I received
    > >> clarification from the


    state.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >
    > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
    > >the UK, you have


    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
    > >car will legally hold.
    >
    > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
    > or all the states


    have

    Quoted message said:

    set
    > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    > learners permits


    at

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    age

    Quoted message said:

    15, can
    > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    > permit, they


    can

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    only

    Quoted message said:

    drive
    > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
    > front seat with


    them.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    In order
    > to receive their license, they have to submit a
    > written and signed


    form

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    listing 25
    > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
    > This doesn't


    sound

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    like

    Quoted message said:

    much,
    > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    > accomplish this


    task.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It
    > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
    > holding license for


    6

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    months, the
    > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    > still the *seat


    belt

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    law* -
    > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    > their seatbelt
    regardless as
    > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with
    > a driver under


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    age of
    > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
    > law. I'm


    very

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    surprised
    > the police can even keep track of them all.
    >
    > >
    > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
    > >> but so far


    unsuccessful,

    Quoted message said:

    is
    > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
    > >> week. This has led


    to

    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of
    > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    > >> staying open


    later

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    school
    > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > >> available at


    those

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    hours.
    > >>
    > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
    > >> which is meeting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of
    > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
    > >> until the age of 8.


    That

    Quoted message said:

    pretty much
    > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    > >> school, going home


    with

    Quoted message said:

    friends,
    > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    > >
    > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
    > >for James that


    was

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
    > >grew out of it last year, aged


    8!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
    > >taught in the past. Not


    skinny,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
    >
    > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
    > was 4 or 40


    pounds

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...

    Quoted message said:

    now it's
    > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    > would not have


    fit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    into a
    > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    > whatever. Some


    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have

    Quoted message said:

    made
    > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    > larger vehicles,


    as

    Quoted message said:

    3

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or more
    > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
    > they own - yet


    they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    can't
    > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
    > more seats. I


    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    understand
    > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    > trying to


    accomplish.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't
    > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
    > into effect by men


    who

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    never
    > once had to deal with transporting multiple
    > children. <g>
    >
    > Joyce
    >


  13. cool deal.
    "Laura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
    Princeton.

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Where in NJ?

    Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area

    "Laura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    Quoted message said:

    In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but
    you are only


    allowed

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
    the new


    restrictions

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little
    or no driving experience but have their drivers
    license. My step daughter had her 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
    test on tuesday.


    I'm

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
    before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
    schools stopped giving driving


    class

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
    schools pump out


    kids

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
    has learned to


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    or not. They got their money. Too many high school
    kids have been


    killed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    because they did not have proper driving instruction
    or meaning full 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of experience before getting their license. As a
    parent I am grateful


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the recent law changes.

    Laura (from NJ)

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...
    > Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far
    > from New York City


    incase

    Quoted message said:

    > you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
    > license until


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are

    Quoted message said:

    17
    > years of age and there are restrictions. My best
    > friend and her


    older

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their
    > license at 16.


    They

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ended
    > up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
    > really


    irritated

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that

    Quoted message said:

    > they could drive before him. In his particular case,
    > they should


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > waited longer-but I digress.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
    > <[email hidden]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >Joyce wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> I do believe their is an exception for
    > > >> siblings. I don't know


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > exact wording
    > > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > > >> requested a


    letter

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    from
    > the state)
    > > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
    > > >> the vehicle


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was

    Quoted message said:

    > under the age
    > > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
    > > >> ... I took


    that

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > mean that they
    > > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
    > > >> but no other
    passengers.
    > This law
    > > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her
    > > >> license for more than


    6

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > months when the
    > > >> law went into effect. But we did have some
    > > >> tense moments, as I


    would

    Quoted message said:

    > not let her
    > > >> carry any passengers until I received
    > > >> clarification from the


    state.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > >
    > > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
    > > >the UK, you


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    > > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    > > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
    > > >car will legally hold.
    > >
    > > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
    > > or all the


    states

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have
    > set
    > > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    > > learners


    permits

    Quoted message said:

    at

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    age
    > 15, can
    > > apply and test for official license at 16. With
    > > the permit, they


    can

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    only
    > drive
    > > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
    > > front seat with


    them.

    Quoted message said:

    > In order
    > > to receive their license, they have to submit a
    > > written and signed


    form

    Quoted message said:

    > listing 25
    > > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
    > > This doesn't


    sound

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    like
    > much,
    > > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    > > accomplish this


    task.

    Quoted message said:

    > It
    > > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
    > > holding license


    for

    Quoted message said:

    6

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > months, the
    > > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    > > still the *seat


    belt

    Quoted message said:

    > law* -
    > > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST
    > > wear their


    seatbelt

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > regardless as
    > > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding
    > > with a driver


    under

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    > age of
    > > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to
    > > this law. I'm


    very

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > surprised
    > > the police can even keep track of them all.
    > >
    > > >
    > > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
    > > >> but so far
    unsuccessful,
    > is
    > > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
    > > >> week. This has


    led

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    a
    > lot of
    > > >> opposition due to more teens now working,
    > > >> stores staying open


    later

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...
    > school
    > > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > > >> available at


    those

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > hours.
    > > >>
    > > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
    > > >> which is meeting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    a
    > lot of
    > > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
    > > >> until the age of


    8.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That
    > pretty much
    > > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    > > >> school, going


    home

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with
    > friends,
    > > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    > > >
    > > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
    > > >for James


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was

    Quoted message said:

    > > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
    > > >grew out of it last year, aged


    8!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
    > > >taught in the past. Not


    skinny,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
    > >
    > > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
    > > was 4 or 40


    pounds

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...
    > now it's
    > > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids
    > > who would not


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    fit

    Quoted message said:

    > into a
    > > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    > > whatever. Some


    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have
    > made
    > > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    > > larger


    vehicles,

    Quoted message said:

    as

    Quoted message said:

    3

    Quoted message said:

    > or more
    > > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts
    > > that they own -


    yet

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they

    Quoted message said:

    > can't
    > > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would
    > > hold more seats.


    I

    Quoted message said:

    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > understand
    > > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    > > trying to


    accomplish.

    Quoted message said:

    > I don't
    > > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
    > > into effect by


    men

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    who

    Quoted message said:

    > never
    > > once had to deal with transporting multiple
    > > children. <g>
    > >
    > > Joyce
    > >
    >
    >


  14. cool deal.
    "Laura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
    Princeton.

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Where in NJ?

    Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area

    "Laura" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
    news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    Quoted message said:

    In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but
    you are only


    allowed

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
    the new


    restrictions

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little
    or no driving experience but have their drivers
    license. My step daughter had her 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
    test on tuesday.


    I'm

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
    before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
    schools stopped giving driving


    class

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
    schools pump out


    kids

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
    has learned to


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    or not. They got their money. Too many high school
    kids have been


    killed

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    because they did not have proper driving instruction
    or meaning full 6


    hours

    Quoted message said:

    of experience before getting their license. As a
    parent I am grateful


    for

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the recent law changes.

    Laura (from NJ)

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...
    > Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far
    > from New York City


    incase

    Quoted message said:

    > you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
    > license until


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    are

    Quoted message said:

    17
    > years of age and there are restrictions. My best
    > friend and her


    older

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their
    > license at 16.


    They

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ended
    > up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
    > really


    irritated

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    that

    Quoted message said:

    > they could drive before him. In his particular case,
    > they should


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > waited longer-but I digress.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > "]news:[email hidden]...
    > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
    > <[email hidden]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >Joyce wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> I do believe their is an exception for
    > > >> siblings. I don't know


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > exact wording
    > > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > > >> requested a


    letter

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    from
    > the state)
    > > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
    > > >> the vehicle


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was

    Quoted message said:

    > under the age
    > > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
    > > >> ... I took


    that

    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > mean that they
    > > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
    > > >> but no other
    passengers.
    > This law
    > > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her
    > > >> license for more than


    6

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > months when the
    > > >> law went into effect. But we did have some
    > > >> tense moments, as I


    would

    Quoted message said:

    > not let her
    > > >> carry any passengers until I received
    > > >> clarification from the


    state.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > >
    > > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
    > > >the UK, you


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    > > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
    > > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
    > > >car will legally hold.
    > >
    > > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
    > > or all the


    states

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have
    > set
    > > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    > > learners


    permits

    Quoted message said:

    at

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    age
    > 15, can
    > > apply and test for official license at 16. With
    > > the permit, they


    can

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    only
    > drive
    > > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
    > > front seat with


    them.

    Quoted message said:

    > In order
    > > to receive their license, they have to submit a
    > > written and signed


    form

    Quoted message said:

    > listing 25
    > > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
    > > This doesn't


    sound

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    like
    > much,
    > > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    > > accomplish this


    task.

    Quoted message said:

    > It
    > > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
    > > holding license


    for

    Quoted message said:

    6

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > months, the
    > > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    > > still the *seat


    belt

    Quoted message said:

    > law* -
    > > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST
    > > wear their


    seatbelt

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > regardless as
    > > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding
    > > with a driver


    under

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    > age of
    > > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to
    > > this law. I'm


    very

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > surprised
    > > the police can even keep track of them all.
    > >
    > > >
    > > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
    > > >> but so far
    unsuccessful,
    > is
    > > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
    > > >> week. This has


    led

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to

    Quoted message said:

    a
    > lot of
    > > >> opposition due to more teens now working,
    > > >> stores staying open


    later

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...
    > school
    > > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > > >> available at


    those

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > hours.
    > > >>
    > > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
    > > >> which is meeting


    with

    Quoted message said:

    a
    > lot of
    > > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
    > > >> until the age of


    8.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    That
    > pretty much
    > > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    > > >> school, going


    home

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    with
    > friends,
    > > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    > > >
    > > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
    > > >for James


    that

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    was

    Quoted message said:

    > > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
    > > >grew out of it last year, aged


    8!

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
    > > >taught in the past. Not


    skinny,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
    > >
    > > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
    > > was 4 or 40


    pounds

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ...
    > now it's
    > > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids
    > > who would not


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    fit

    Quoted message said:

    > into a
    > > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    > > whatever. Some


    people

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    have
    > made
    > > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    > > larger


    vehicles,

    Quoted message said:

    as

    Quoted message said:

    3

    Quoted message said:

    > or more
    > > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts
    > > that they own -


    yet

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    they

    Quoted message said:

    > can't
    > > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would
    > > hold more seats.


    I

    Quoted message said:

    do

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > understand
    > > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    > > trying to


    accomplish.

    Quoted message said:

    > I don't
    > > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
    > > into effect by


    men

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    who

    Quoted message said:

    > never
    > > once had to deal with transporting multiple
    > > children. <g>
    > >
    > > Joyce
    > >
    >
    >


  15. I wish they would put as much thought into ALL licensing as
    they do into the kids. It amazed me when I was at traffic
    court last month (hub hit a women who was backing up down a
    one way street). There were several people there who did not
    have licenses because they had no social security card (here
    on visa's) ... were issued tickets, then had them thrown out
    when they were in court. Some of them were on their 3rd time
    around for the same thing! Now you know they just walked out
    of court and got into their car to go home. What's wrong
    with this picture?

    And I know my mom should not have been driving as long as
    she had - yet she only had to go the the licensing facility
    and have a yearly eye exam .. no written testing, no driving
    testing - license renewed for another year. My fil had his
    license renewed for 4 years when he was 80 years old. And
    I've ridden with people my age that I will never get into a
    vehicle with again! Hub talks about some of the truck
    drivers he deals with who are on multiple DUI's ... yet
    their license can't be taken permanently away because
    driving is their living. That's pretty dang scary!

    Guess there are just too many people now to try and deal
    with all the different scenarios.

    Joyce

    Laura said:

    In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
    are only allowed to drive with an instructor or a parent
    until 17. I like the new restrictions that they put on kids
    here. Too many kids get little or no driving experience but
    have their drivers license. My step daughter had her 6
    hours of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
    test on tuesday. I'm amazed that she passed. It took her
    another 6 months before she could navigate a parking lot
    correctly. The schools stopped giving driving class due to
    the high cost of insurance. The local driving schools pump
    out kids so fast just to make money. They don't care if the
    kid has learned to drive or not. They got their money. Too
    many high school kids have been killed because they did not
    have proper driving instruction or meaning full 6 hours of
    experience before getting their license. As a parent I am
    grateful for the recent law changes.

    Laura (from NJ)

    "skiur" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
    York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
    your driver's license until you are


    17

    Quoted message said:

    years of age and there are restrictions. My best friend
    and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get
    their license at 16. They


    ended

    Quoted message said:

    up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
    really irritated that they could drive before him. In his
    particular case, they should have waited longer-but I
    digress.

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    wrote:

    >Joyce wrote:
    >
    >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    >> don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:

    >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    >> requested a letter


    from

    Quoted message said:

    the state)

    Quoted message said:

    >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    >> vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:

    >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
    >> I took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:

    >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
    >> no other


    passengers.

    Quoted message said:

    This law

    Quoted message said:

    >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
    >> for more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:

    >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    >> moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:

    >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
    >> from the state.
    >
    >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
    >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have
    >a full licence, you can carry as many passengers as
    >the car will legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
    all the states


    have

    Quoted message said:

    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    learners permits at


    age

    Quoted message said:

    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can


    only

    Quoted message said:

    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound


    like

    Quoted message said:

    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    still the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    their seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
    law. I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    >
    >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
    >> so far


    unsuccessful,

    Quoted message said:

    is

    Quoted message said:

    >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    >> This has led to


    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:

    >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    >> staying open later


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    school

    Quoted message said:

    >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    >> available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:

    >>
    >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
    >> is meeting with


    a

    Quoted message said:

    lot of

    Quoted message said:

    >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
    >> the age of 8.


    That

    Quoted message said:

    pretty much

    Quoted message said:

    >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    >> school, going home


    with

    Quoted message said:

    friends,

    Quoted message said:

    >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    >
    >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age
    >of 12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's
    >already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in
    >the past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as
    >well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
    4 or 40 pounds


    ...

    Quoted message said:

    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    would not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    whatever. Some people


    have

    Quoted message said:

    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    larger vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
    they own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
    more seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    trying to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple
    children. <g>

    Joyce


  16. That was my thoughts, and hubs, exactly ... school funding
    issues. Around here, the school staff is constantly telling
    the students how rough it is, what programs must be cut, how
    teachers will be let go ... UNLESS ... I could just see
    allowing the *kids* to vote, with all the influence that the
    staff is putting on them. We see it anyway, kids were always
    coming home from school telling us that if we didn't vote
    for the current referendum their favorite teacher would no
    longer have a job.

    Sometimes the polling attendence doesn't have anything to do
    with being informed - although it usually does. I expect we
    will have a record low turnout here next week, no real good
    reason to go. There are no referendums on the ballot,
    republican and democratic candidates are already firm, and
    no local stuff to get excited over.

    Joyce

    On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:13:30 -0800, "Deb in Northern
    California"

    Quoted message said:

    I agree, I know even though I was allowed to vote at 18, I
    did not register to vote until I was 22 or 23. Have voted
    ever since too. I don't think a child of 14-16 are old
    enough to make an informed decision and that is what voting
    should be, an informed decision on an issue so that you
    have a say so in it. I know a bunch of school boards, that
    would like for the kids to vote so they can get the school
    bond issues to go through. Funny thing is, the politician
    that was proposing that amendment said we had record low
    voter turn out and that was why he wanted to get more
    people into the polls. I think if people were more informed
    they would be more likely to go to the polls and vote.

    Debbie

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    What is with CA laws? Strict on the driving issues, yet I
    heard on the


    news

    Quoted message said:

    tonite that they want to make an ammendment (or
    something) that will allow


    voting

    Quoted message said:

    in state elections at the age of 14. 14 yr. old votes
    count as a quarter


    of a

    Quoted message said:

    vote ... 16 yrs. old count as half a vote. Is it just me,
    or is this


    ridiculous?

    Quoted message said:

    I know my kids didn't have a clue or care about the
    political issues, tax referendums or whatever were being
    voted for.

    Joyce

    On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:39:44 -0800, "Deb in Northern
    California"

    Quoted message said:

    California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary
    by state. Also


    the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    teen provisional license in California is NO passenger
    for the 1st 6


    months

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    under the age of 25. So the laws do vary by state, but
    only slightly.

    Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
    permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break
    (the week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6
    months before she can become licensed. She will be


    16

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    and a few months when she gets her license then.

    Debbie

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
    <[email hidden]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >Joyce wrote:
    > >
    > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    > >> don't know the
    exact wording
    > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > >> requested a letter


    from

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the state)
    > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    > >> vehicle that was
    under the age
    > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
    > >> I took that to
    mean that they
    > >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
    > >> no other


    passengers.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This law
    > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
    > >> for more than 6
    months when the
    > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    > >> moments, as I


    would

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    not let her
    > >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
    > >> from the state.
    > >
    > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
    > >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you
    > >have a full licence, you can carry as many passengers
    > >as the car will legally hold.
    >
    > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
    > all the states


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    set
    > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    > learners permits at


    age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    15, can
    > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    > permit, they can


    only

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    drive
    > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
    > front seat with them.
    In order
    > to receive their license, they have to submit a
    > written and signed form
    listing 25
    > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    > doesn't sound


    like

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    much,
    > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    > accomplish this


    task.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    It
    > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    > license for 6
    months, the
    > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
    > still the *seat belt
    law* -
    > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    > their seatbelt
    regardless as
    > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    > driver under the
    age of
    > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
    > law. I'm very
    surprised
    > the police can even keep track of them all.
    >
    > >
    > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
    > >> so far


    unsuccessful,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    is
    > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    > >> This has led to


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lot of
    > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    > >> staying open later


    ...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    school
    > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > >> available at those
    hours.
    > >>
    > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
    > >> which is meeting with


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    lot of
    > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
    > >> the age of 8.


    That

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    pretty much
    > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
    > >> school, going home


    with

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    friends,
    > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
    > >
    > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    > >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age
    > >of 12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's
    > >already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught
    > >in the past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad
    > >as well as tall.
    >
    > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
    > 4 or 40 pounds


    ...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    now it's
    > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    > would not have


    fit

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    into a
    > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
    > whatever. Some people


    have

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    made
    > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
    > larger vehicles, as


    3

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    or more
    > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
    > they own - yet


    they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    can't
    > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
    > more seats. I do
    understand
    > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
    > trying to


    accomplish.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't
    > think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    > effect by men


    who

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    never
    > once had to deal with transporting multiple
    > children. <g>
    >
    > Joyce
    >


  17. On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:27:59 +0000, Kate Dicey <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Joyce said:

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have set their laws to be the same. Kids can
    receive their learners permits at age 15, can apply and
    test for official license at 16. With the permit, they
    can only drive with a licensed adult (over the age of 21)
    in the front seat with them. In order to receive their
    license, they have to submit a written and signed form
    listing 25 hours of practice driving time (An Illinois
    law). This doesn't sound like much, until you're the
    parent that has to make sure they accomplish this task.
    It wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6 months, the 1 passenger restriction is
    lifted ... but there is still the *seat belt law* -
    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    their seatbelt regardless as to being in the front or
    rear seat (when riding with a driver under the age of
    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very surprised the police can even keep track of
    them all.

    Here you can apply for your provisional licence on your
    17th birthday, and pass your test that day too if you like!
    I've had several friends do that: Kids of farmers who've
    been driving the farm stuff for years, since they were
    literally too small to reach all the pedals!

    You can do that here, but have to be 18. If you want to
    drive earlier (at 16) then you have to take a drivers ed
    program, either privately or through the local schools.

    Quoted message said:


    For us for cars it doesn't matter where you sit you have to
    wear a seatbelt unless you have a job or medical exemption.
    I don't think car seats are mandatory, but they are
    advised. The wording is 'suitably restrained', I think.
    This can mean a car seat for tiddlers, a booster seat for
    larger kids, or one of those lap things that hold the seat
    belt into the right non-strangling position.

    I do believe in restraints for all passengers, hate to say
    how many deaths I have heard of due to occupants being
    ejected from the vehicles. If the restraints (in whatever
    form) will give us a fighting chance, then I'm all for it.

    Quoted message said:

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4 or
    40 pounds ... now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    would not have fit into a car seat at 8 years old - too
    heavy, too tall, whatever. Some people have made
    complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
    vehicles, as 3 or more car seats will not fit easily into
    the compacts that they own - yet they can't afford the
    more costly vans or suv's that would hold more seats. I
    do understand the logic behind the law, along with what
    they are trying to accomplish. I don't think it was very
    well thought out. Probably put into effect by men who
    never once had to deal with transporting multiple
    children. <g>

    Hah! Beaurocracy gorn mad, innit.

    LOL! Sure is!

    Joyce

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Joyce

  18. Thanks for the info - so licensing laws must be a state
    thing, not federal. I do think parents need to be more
    realistic in deciding if their child is truly ready to
    drive. My daughters friend should not have his license .. he
    still can't park well. I think he has hit 3 cars in parking
    lots, sideswiped an ATM machine ... that I'm aware of. <G>

    Joyce

    skiur said:

    Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
    York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
    your driver's license until you are 17 years of age and
    there are restrictions. My best friend and her older
    brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their license
    at 16. They ended up moving to New Jersey and their little
    brother was really irritated that they could drive before
    him. In his particular case, they should have waited longer-
    but I digress.

    "Joyce" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey


    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Joyce wrote:

    > I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
    > don't know the


    exact wording

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
    > requested a letter from


    the state)

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > but it was basically that only one passenger in the
    > vehicle that was


    under the age

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
    > took that to


    mean that they

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
    > other passengers.


    This law

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
    > more than 6


    months when the

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > law went into effect. But we did have some tense
    > moments, as I would


    not let her

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > carry any passengers until I received clarification
    > from the state.

    Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
    UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a
    full licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
    car will legally hold.

    No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
    the states have


    set

    Quoted message said:

    their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
    learners permits at age


    15, can

    Quoted message said:

    apply and test for official license at 16. With the
    permit, they can only


    drive

    Quoted message said:

    with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
    seat with them.


    In order

    Quoted message said:

    to receive their license, they have to submit a written
    and signed form


    listing 25

    Quoted message said:

    hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
    doesn't sound like


    much,

    Quoted message said:

    until you're the parent that has to make sure they
    accomplish this task.


    It

    Quoted message said:

    wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
    license for 6


    months, the

    Quoted message said:

    1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
    the *seat belt


    law* -

    Quoted message said:

    stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
    their seatbelt


    regardless as

    Quoted message said:

    to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
    driver under the


    age of

    Quoted message said:

    21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
    I'm very


    surprised

    Quoted message said:

    the police can even keep track of them all.

    Quoted message said:


    > Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
    > far unsuccessful,


    is

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
    > This has led to a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > opposition due to more teens now working, stores
    > staying open later ...


    school

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > activities later in the evenings with no busing
    > available at those


    hours.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >
    > And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
    > is meeting with a


    lot of

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
    > age of 8. That


    pretty much

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
    > going home with


    friends,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?

    AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
    James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
    12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
    taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
    Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.

    When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
    or 40 pounds ...


    now it's

    Quoted message said:

    just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
    would not have fit


    into a

    Quoted message said:

    car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
    Some people have


    made

    Quoted message said:

    complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
    vehicles, as 3


    or more

    Quoted message said:

    car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
    own - yet they


    can't

    Quoted message said:

    afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
    seats. I do


    understand

    Quoted message said:

    the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
    to accomplish.


    I don't

    Quoted message said:

    think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
    effect by men who


    never

    Quoted message said:

    once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>

    Joyce


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