A New Indoor Trainer - The WattBike



Porkyboy

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Apr 28, 2006
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Hi Guys

Only just seen this and wondered whether anyone had any knowledge about it or had heard anything interesting. Bit more expensive than a CompuTrainer and a whole lot less expensive than a Velotron. Looks like a competitor to the Cycleops PRO300PT.

Any thoughts?

http://www.wattbike.com/default.aspx?nodeid=1

PBUK
 
Hi

Bailsibub said:
Porky, it can't be a good sign when the website writes "Dual Breaking System"! :p
Ghastly error eh! :eek:

I've asked I think 5 questions on their new forum to try to establish a few facts, no replies yet. I've got a feeling it can't be used as an ergotrainer which @ that price would I think leave me feeling pretty short changed.

PB
 
Porkyboy said:
I've asked I think 5 questions on their new forum to try to establish a few facts, no replies yet. I've got a feeling it can't be used as an ergotrainer which @ that price would I think leave me feeling pretty short changed.

PB

Their lack of response to you re: WKO+ worries me most.
 
Porkyboy said:
Hi

Ghastly error eh! :eek:

I've asked I think 5 questions on their new forum to try to establish a few facts, no replies yet. I've got a feeling it can't be used as an ergotrainer which @ that price would I think leave me feeling pretty short changed.

PB

I think you posed some very valid questions....The lack of comparison to the CT (which in my opinion is there target consumer) surprises me (or not). The race graphics are look poor....but graphs and charts appear detailed.
 
Porkyboy said:
Hi Guys

Only just seen this and wondered whether anyone had any knowledge about it or had heard anything interesting. Bit more expensive than a CompuTrainer and a whole lot less expensive than a Velotron. Looks like a competitor to the Cycleops PRO300PT.

Any thoughts?

http://www.wattbike.com/default.aspx?nodeid=1

PBUK
Looks interesting for those in the UK. shipping costs would otherwise be horrendous I guess.

I wonder about:
  1. Noise levels re the air-braking (fan)
  2. Reach adjustability (didn't see a mention of it)
  3. Crank-arm length adjustability (saw only 170mm mentioned)
  4. Power/watts: precision and accuracy
  5. Cooling/ventilation factors as it appears fairly enclosed (on 1st glance)
  6. Software?
 
Wattbike Rivals Hoy As Main Attraction At Salford Nocturne



The Watt Bike made an appearance as part of the Everyday Cycling Tent at the Salford Nocturne on Saturday 30th August.

In the picturesque setting of Salford Quays on a mild, late Summer evening, throngs of people gathered to get a glimpse of Great Britain’s victorious cycling heroes, including triple gold medallist Chris Hoy.

The event generated a great atmosphere which encouraged people to let their hair down and have some fun. It also created an element of competition of people where the Watt Bike was concerned.

The gauntlet was thrown down: “Chris Hoy managed 2200 Watts on this thing – can you beat a triple gold medallist?”

Over 100 people took up the challenge during the 4 hour event and nobody was able to only have one go. Every single person who had a go was determined to beat their first score.

At a couple of points throughout the evening, there appeared to be more interest in the Watt Bike than in the Nocturne as huge crowds gathered around supporting and encouraging each other to achieve the best score.

In the end, the winning score was 1,328 watts, achieved by a former track sprint cyclist. This drew huge admiration from the crowd.

Some of the younger participants also achieved incredible scores, with three Under 16 males achieving over 1000 watts. In the female Under 16 category, one cyclist managed to achieve a score in the high 800’s. This can only bode well for Great Britain as we head towards 2012.

It is very unlikely that a piece of training equipment could ever upstage the elite athlete who trains on it – but the Watt Bike very nearly achieved it this weekend.
 
Hi

I have a copy of the owner's manual, it does not appear to have a section covering the spec of the unit ad it's accuracy/performance specifications. I was told this in an email:

"The Wattbike is extremely accurate 200 W on the Wattbike would be the same as 200 w on a SRM etc. It is lab accurate."

Bit general for me I'm afraid, in reality anyone can make a statement like that but without any published backup data it concerns me somewhat. I can see no reference to the unit functioning as an ergotrainer.

PBUK
 
Love the Wattbike. Got one about 3 weeks ago. I have owned a computrainer and I feel the Wattbike is similar, but better in many ways.

Pros
1. It has 2 types of resistance, not just magnetic, but also wind.
2. Much better road feel
3. Better calibration IMO
4. When you crank up the resistance at any level it just feels more natural.
5. Easy to do minor adjustments to fit
6. IMO the Polar View vs Spin Scan is more accurate
7. The bike weighs 55 kilos, so it is an extremely stable platform when doing any sort of climbing.
8. I like having two types of resistance (wind and magnetic)
9. Computrainer seems dated, the Wattbike seems really fresh and new.
10. The Wattbike is easy to hop on and start a workout on. Computrainer either requires you to mount your bike or have one already attached.
11. Doesn't wear down your road/tri bike tires

Cons
1. Cost about 2 times that of a Computrainer
2. Doesn't have any cool 3-d courses
3. Resistance has to be set manually
4. Is not easy to transport since it weighs 55 kilos
5. Can not test your bike out on it.

If you have questions, I can try to answer them.

Here is a video I did
http://youtu.be/R--ZrD3S63c

Here is an article I have on the Wattbike
http://www.endthetrendnow.com/wattbike-review/
 
For the cost of a Wattbike, you can get a power meter for your bike, a top notch stationary trainer on which to mount your bike, and have money left over for other things like bike components, bike clothes, DVDs of real bike races to watch while on the bike trainer, a fan to cool you off on the trainer.... As a bonus, that bike with a power meter on it can be pedaled outdoors and will go places, while the Wattbike goes nowhere and certainly doesn't offer the reward of a beautiful descent laid out beneath you as you summit a tough climb.
 
Originally Posted by alienator .

For the cost of a Wattbike, you can get a power meter for your bike, a top notch stationary trainer on which to mount your bike, and have money left over for other things like bike components, bike clothes, DVDs of real bike races to watch while on the bike trainer, a fan to cool you off on the trainer.... As a bonus, that bike with a power meter on it can be pedaled outdoors and will go places, while the Wattbike goes nowhere and certainly doesn't offer the reward of a beautiful descent laid out beneath you as you summit a tough climb.

I agree with the point made above. A couple of weeks ago I was at an expo and an exhibitor had a watt bike, a big bulky looking thing with old 80's pursuit style bars. I'd rather spend a lot less money on a power meter that pairs with my garmin and a couple hundred dollars on a decent trainer.
 
Please post any questions, criticisms and opinions here, I'll approach them next week for a response to comments from here on.
 
Watched the video of the WattBike and interestingly SpinScan was referred to which is the RacerMate system (CompuTrainer.VeloTron) system, also in the video I didn't like the need to be reaching down for the dual controls for the different types of resistance and I don't understand why 2 different sorts of resistance are needed.

I'm still not clear whether the WattBike allows different crank lengths to be set or specified at purchase and if this is not the case then this essentially invalidates Polar View as the data will not represent what the rider is actually doing on the road where they may well be using different crank lengths. I would not dream of training on a unit which had different crank lengths from my road bike.

I don't understand the statements about "better calibration" and "the Polar View being "more accurate" and I'd like to know the sources of that data. Certainly the CompuTrainer performs extremely well when ridden in conjunction with either a calibrated PowerTap or calibrated SRM Pro power meters which I have huge confidence in in terms of accuracy.

The WattBike cannot be used in ErgoTrainer mode which is an incredibly valuable training approach and which is one of the great strengths of other systems. To be able to pre-programme either simple of very complex workouts watt-perfect scaled to any FTP and then to have the trainer simply run them is a tremendous aspect to the RacerMate systems. This mode also of course allows CompuTrainer users to use the excellent ErgVideo system with the CompuTrainer or VELOtron which has the capability of transforming indoor training. I would never consider paying around £2000, or around $3200 for a trainer than did not offer an pre-programmable ergotrainer mode.

The WattBike cannot replicate outdoor training rides or sessions. Using a CompuTrainer and a power meter, both of which can be bought for the cost of a WattBike, this is simple. I regularly ride an event or training session on the road and record the data with my PowerTap. I then convert this to a file into a format which can be read by the CompuTrainer and I can then re-ride the ride indoors exactly as it was ridden originally, hugely valuable if the weather is poor. I can scale these files to any FTP so that any rider with a CompuTrainer can ride one of these sessions, all scaled precisely to their own FTP. NONE of this can be done with the WattBike.

The WattBike being a standalone unit as you say does not require a bike to be fitted to it but in my experience training on a bike that you will use on the road can be invaluable, a trainer/bike combination also does not require long term storage and can be put away during periods where it will not be used, a WattBike needs a permanent home.

For me there are too many things that I use all the time which I find invaluable in the RacerMate CompuTrainer/VELOtron system which are simply not available on the WattBike. many people under-use their CompuTrainers but the potential of these devices is truly remarkable.
 
Originally Posted by alienator .

For the cost of a Wattbike, you can get a power meter for your bike, a top notch stationary trainer on which to mount your bike, and have money left over for other things like bike components, bike clothes, DVDs of real bike races to watch while on the bike trainer, a fan to cool you off on the trainer.... As a bonus, that bike with a power meter on it can be pedaled outdoors and will go places, while the Wattbike goes nowhere and certainly doesn't offer the reward of a beautiful descent laid out beneath you as you summit a tough climb.

I agree entirely, you can get a whole lot for £2000.
 
I will try to answer a few of the question.


For the cost of a Wattbike, you can get a power meter for your bike, a top notch stationary trainer on which to mount your bike, and have money left over for other things like bike components, bike clothes, DVDs of real bike races to watch while on the bike trainer, a fan to cool you off on the trainer.... As a bonus, that bike with a power meter on it can be pedaled outdoors and will go places, while the Wattbike goes nowhere and certainly doesn't offer the reward of a beautiful descent laid out beneath you as you summit a tough climb.
All true, but as far as road feel goes, the Wattbike will crush the trainers butts. Best road feel of any trainer I have ridden and when you do crank up the resistance it is very smooth.


I agree with the point made above. A couple of weeks ago I was at an expo and an exhibitor had a watt bike, a big bulky looking thing with old 80's pursuit style bars. I'd rather spend a lot less money on a power meter that pairs with my garmin and a couple hundred dollars on a decent trainer.
The pursuit style bars threw me for a loop too when I first got it. The bars however are wicked solid and can be adjusted to your liking. I think though it would be nice if they came out with just road bars as an option w/o the time trial extension. That way you would have more hand positions.

Watched the video of the WattBike and interestingly SpinScan was referred to which is the RacerMate system (CompuTrainer.VeloTron) system, also in the video I didn't like the need to be reaching down for the dual controls for the different types of resistance and I don't understand why 2 different sorts of resistance are needed.
My reference to Spin Scan was due to my use of the computrainer. I corrected that in the video comment section. It was my bad. Should have said Polar View, although the video text does say Polar View. I am not an actor and don't get paid for these videos. :) It was a one take video, so there were a few inconsistencies. :)
I am not exactly sure why they have two types of resistance, but you don't have to use both. I believe the magnetic resistance is more to simulate hill climbing, while the wind would be more to simulate riding on the flats and descents. Both are extremely smooth.

I don't understand the statements about "better calibration" and "the Polar View being "more accurate" and I'd like to know the sources of that data. Certainly the CompuTrainer performs extremely well when ridden in conjunction with either a calibrated PowerTap or calibrated SRM Pro power meters which I have huge confidence in in terms of accuracy.
From my experience on the Computrainer, the calibration was always touch and go. I think a lot of it had to do with tire pressure and how much tension was on the wheel. I know there is a calibration procedure, but at least for me it wasn't always true. The Wattbike seems more consistent ride to ride than I experienced on the Computrainer. I also believe that the Wattbike calibration is as accurate as a PowerTap or SRM. British Cycling was involved in the development of the Wattbike and one of the key aspects was having a bike that was accurate.

The Wattbike is factory calibrated and does not need recalibrating, unlike the Computrainer. IMO this will mean more consistent calibration for each ride.

The Wattbike samples data 100 times a second and is recording data for each pedal revolution. It also measures and, in the software, records 39 different cycling parameters.

Here is a video comparing an SRM to the Wattbike

http://youtu.be/GwV2qdhCLXc

I am not exactly sure what is meant by Ergo Trainer?
I do agree that the Computrainer excels in the fact that it can be programmed to simulate a particular course. That is probably the only reason I would pick up a Computrainer again. It was really cool being able to simulate a course and have the computer adjust the resistance.

I haven't had a chance to ride the VELOTron, but it looks like an excellent product at a way too expensive price.

The WattBike cannot replicate outdoor training rides or sessions. Using a CompuTrainer and a power meter, both of which can be bought for the cost of a WattBike, this is simple.
I certainly will not suggest that the Wattbike be a replacement for an outdoor powermeter, but from my experience it does have certain advantages over the computrainer.. Being able to replicate a course however, is a major advantage and probably the biggest advantage the Computrainer has over most of the competition including the Wattbike.

The WattBike being a standalone unit as you say does not require a bike to be fitted to it but in my experience training on a bike that you will use on the road can be invaluable, a trainer/bike combination also does not require long term storage and can be put away during periods where it will not be used, a WattBike needs a permanent home.
It is true the Wattbike does need a permanent home. :) The sucker is heavy, but for me that is one of the advantages in some respects. The platform is so much more stable and when riding it and the road feel is much more realistic over the Computrainer. I also can just hop on and start working out right away. I never had a dedicated bike for the computrainer, so it was always a pain to setup, calibrate. I also felt it wasn't exactly the best thing for the bike frame and certainly wasn't good for the rear tire.

My biggest beef with Computrainer is the fact that the trainer hasn't changed with the times. IMO Computrainer's RND department has really been lacking on the trainer side of the house. They certainly IMO could have come up with a trainer similar to say the new LeMond Revolution that would eliminate tire wear. I also think the VELOTron is way over priced for what you get and looks like something out of the 80's.

As far as price, the Wattbike is certainly expensive relative to other traditional trainers and that is where they are going to have trouble selling the units. That said, it is also commercial grade, which means it can take a ton of punishment. Most of your commercial grade products are traditionally much more expensive than consumer grade products.

And just for the record, I had the Computrainer for years and I had gone as far as doing 2 100 mile sessions, so needless to say I have had a ton of experience on the Computrainer. The Computrainer is a great tool for sure and certainly gives a great workout. If they updated their current trainer, I might be tempted to pick one up again.
 
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The sampling interval and possibly event the polar certainly have no proven benefit. Sadly, a review does not count as proven benefit. Road feel? There may be entertainment benefit in that, but there certainly is no proven benefit of it. 39 measurement parameters? So what? Did you actually look at the parameters? Here are some of the ridiculous ones:
  • turns number--what the hell?
  • circumferential pedal velocity--when has this ever been an important number? How is it better than cadence?
  • work per revolution--so? How is this better than power, especially since it's just power times the period?

Wattbike is baffling curious people with BS. Any half-dead person with access to Excel or any other spreadsheet can calculate form their own power meter data set the vast majority of Wattbike's "measurement parameters" post ride......and a bunch of those Wattbike "measurement parameters" are really only useful post ride.

FWIW, a bike with a power meter totally crushes Wattbike because it fits the rider in exactly the position in which the rider, uhm, rides on the road. It has the exact same length crank arms that the rider uses. Did I mention that the power meter equipped bicycle actually pedals on the road, which gives the exact road feel the rider gets on the road? On the bicycle, the rider doesn't adapt to a position forced upon him/her by some company. At no added cost, the power meter equipped bicycle also provides power readings and various measurement parameters for real time training guidance. Wattbike? It forces you to buy a power meter if you want power on the road.
 
FWIW, a bike with a power meter totally crushes Wattbike because it fits the rider in exactly the position in which the rider, uhm, rides on the road. It has the exact same length crank arms that the rider uses. Did I mention that the power meter equipped bicycle actually pedals on the road, which gives the exact road feel the rider gets on the road? On the bicycle, the rider doesn't adapt to a position forced upon him/her by some company. At no added cost, the power meter equipped bicycle also provides power readings and various measurement parameters for real time training guidance. Wattbike? It forces you to buy a power meter if you want power on the road.
While the computrainer certainly does allow you to ride your own bike that you ride outside, it doesn't have as good a road feel as the Wattbike. The platform isn't as stable and you certainly can not push as many watts accurately IMO on the Computrainer as you can on the Wattbike because of wheel slippage.

The Wattbike is very adjustable and can be setup to pretty much simulate your bike position. Now if you have different crank arm lengths, you may run into problems. I am not sure how the company deals with crank arm length issues.

Here is a link where Wattbike talks about positioning.
https://wattbike.com/us/guide/bike_fit/general_wattbike_cycling_position_and_setup

My current bike Felt F3 retails for over 5K, but I am sure I could probably go just as fast and feel just as comfortable on a bike for 1/2 that amount. So yea you can certainly save money by getting a less expensive alternative. That said, I love my Felt because I think the investment was worth it and it is a great bike.

When I am using an indoor trainer, I want it to be smooth and not feel choppy regardless of how high the resistance gets. For me the Wattbike met that criteria. I also find it cooler looking than a trainer setup, but that is just me.
 
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In the end people will buy what they want to buy for all kinds of reasons, I would not buy a WattBike though I would buy another CompuTrainer. For me an on bike power meter and a CompuTrainer covers everything I want to do and an awful lot more than a WattBike can ever do, for about the same cost. As a coach the CompuTrainer opens up many options which are simply unavailable to WattBike users. As far as I can gather the vast majority of indoor trainer studios are CompuTrainer equipped and I'd be surprised if any of them will be switching to WattBikes any time soon. Sure, gyms may well use them, but that's a whole different user base.

For the record can you confirm that you bought, and paid full price, for your WattBike or was it made available to you under any kind of promotional/test arrangement? I'm just wanting to be clear, and for other readers to be clear, that there is no potential conflict of interest in your WattBike review.

Again, for the record, I have NO professional relationship with RacerMate and my use of it's products is based purely on having selected what I believed to be the best tools for the work I wish to do.
 
Sorry, I've answered my own question, I just read this on your website:

"Wattbike graciously just sent out one of there fantastic indoor cycling trainers to my location. It is absolutely awesome. "

WattBike wouldn't I am sure be exactly thrilled if you weren't super positive about their product. I'm afraid, for me at least, this rather clouds the issue in terms of an independent product review, I believe there is a potential conflict of interest.
 
Sorry, I've answered my own question, I just read this on your website:

"Wattbike graciously just sent out one of there fantastic indoor cycling trainers to my location. It is absolutely awesome. "

WattBike wouldn't I am sure be exactly thrilled if you weren't super positive about their product. I'm afraid, for me at least, this rather clouds the issue in terms of an independent product review, I believe there is a potential conflict of interest.

Yes Wattbike did send the unit to me for review. If I thought it sucked I would have certainly said so. I am not one to hype a product if I don't think it is either extremely well made, unique or something that is cutting edge. I go out of my way to search the internet, magazines, fitness stores and talk to end users and businesses to find products that I think people may want to know about and products I can use for myself. My website allows me the luxury sometimes of being about to get products I want to checkout without having to pay for them or get them at a reduced cost. That said, that doesn't always workout, and I have to buy them at retail value.

I have a huge amount of experience testing out products in real life conditions since 1988, when I first started doing endurance sports and would always seek out what I considered top notch products. My biggest accomplishment to date was doing 100 miles in Leadville Colorado last year. Training for that race meant I was doing 80-110 miles per week running, which allowed me to test out all sorts of nutrition, running shoes, and fluid drinks and systems. I have done triathlons since 1988 including 5 Ironmans, which certainly allowed me to test out countless bikes, both road and tri. Other sports I have raced include cycling, mountain biking, inline, duathlons, running, rowing and adventure.

So yes Wattbike probably wouldn't be trilled if I bashed their product, but I honestly think it is a fantastic product and from my experience using other trainers, it stands at the top. Since I have a lot of experience on the computrainer having ridden it 100 miles in one session, not once, but twice, plus countless other times, I feel I certainly have the knowledge to compare the two.

For me, if I am going to ride indoors, I want a trainer that is as smooth as possible and the Wattbike meets that criteria more so than any other trainer I have ridden. Could I afford to purchase one at this time retail? Probably not. Work is a little slow these days. A few years ago, most certainly.

One of the things that Wattbike has going for it other than it being a trainer, is erg type racing events similar to what is currently done for the Concept II rowing machines. Since the Wattbike uses similar Concept II technology, it is very easy to set up races where multiple riders compete against each other. Wattbike was also used in the Crossfit Games this year right along with the Concept II rowers. Oh and just for the record, I think the concept II rowing machine is a fantastic workout and rower. Yes I owned 2 concept IIs, since 88. I rowed in college and raced at the Concept II Crash B events.

http://www.concept2.com/us/racing/crashb/default.asp

http://games.crossfit.com/finals/live/masters/629856