abdominal muscle training



eortiz

New Member
Nov 12, 2003
145
0
16
55
To support your back muscle, you need to have strong abs muscles. Now there is the sit-ups and leg raises but that only works the upper abs muscles. How do you work the lower (below the navel) muscles? I have an herniated (between L4 and L5) disc that's why I need to work on by "core" muscles. Thanks for nay advice.
 
eortiz said:
To support your back muscle, you need to have strong abs muscles. Now there is the sit-ups and leg raises but that only works the upper abs muscles. How do you work the lower (below the navel) muscles? I have an herniated (between L4 and L5) disc that's why I need to work on by "core" muscles. Thanks for nay advice.
It's a myth that you can "isolate" the upper from the lower abs -- electromyographic studies show that the minute you apply resistance, both your upper and lower abdominals kick into action together.

It's also a myth that you should do hundreds of reps of crunches -- your abs, like all other muscles in your body, respond best to PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE training.
 
Doctor Morbius said:
It's a myth that you can "isolate" the upper from the lower abs -- electromyographic studies show that the minute you apply resistance, both your upper and lower abdominals kick into action together.

It's also a myth that you should do hundreds of reps of crunches -- your abs, like all other muscles in your body, respond best to PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE training.

What Doc means is do crunches with weight on your chest or on a slanted board. As you get stronger, add weight or make the board slanted more steeply.
 
Doc, thanks for the reply (and for the others too). I'll just keep on doing what I've been doing (leg raises and crunches after every ride).

Doctor Morbius said:
It's a myth that you can "isolate" the upper from the lower abs -- electromyographic studies show that the minute you apply resistance, both your upper and lower abdominals kick into action together.

It's also a myth that you should do hundreds of reps of crunches -- your abs, like all other muscles in your body, respond best to PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE training.
 
I've had many years of low back pain from both rowing and cycling. A physio friend and fellow cyclist has reccomended the following book...

Spinal Stabilization: New Science of Back Pain
Author - Rick Jemmett
Pulished March 2003
ISBN-0968871518

Another book that has a series of exercises that I've found worthwhile is

Stronger Abs and Back
Author - Dean Brittenham
 
Aztec said:
... and mostly your hips rather than your abs at all.
if you try these i guarantee you get results.

raise your legs at 90 degrees with your legs bent and do situps and progress to doing them straight but raised off the flow really makes the lower abbs hurt.

Sit ups
single leg V sits
V sits (both legs)
crunches (90 degrees to almost straight) without support under feet
cramps
Twists
Bar Twists

or just a regular palatise routine.
 
Do you think abdominal work actually trims the waist or does it simply firm up the muscles below? My waist is about 35 but I'd like a couple of inches less.


closesupport said:
if you try these i guarantee you get results.

raise your legs at 90 degrees with your legs bent and do situps and progress to doing them straight but raised off the flow really makes the lower abbs hurt.

Sit ups
single leg V sits
V sits (both legs)
crunches (90 degrees to almost straight) without support under feet
cramps
Twists
Bar Twists

or just a regular palatise routine.
 
In my opinion (but I'm not an expert), you can have a 6 pack but it will be under a lot of fat if you do not burn those fat away. Eat more, exercise MUCH more. I also have the same problem (I was 34-35 but now down to 30-31 waistline) that's why I try to stay away from eating a lot after a ride. Just enough to replenish what I spent and be ready for tomorrow's ride.

Carrera said:
Do you think abdominal work actually trims the waist or does it simply firm up the muscles below? My waist is about 35 but I'd like a couple of inches less.
 
eortiz said:
In my opinion (but I'm not an expert), you can have a 6 pack but it will be under a lot of fat if you do not burn those fat away. Eat more, exercise MUCH more. I also have the same problem (I was 34-35 but now down to 30-31 waistline) that's why I try to stay away from eating a lot after a ride. Just enough to replenish what I spent and be ready for tomorrow's ride.

A "6-pack" is almost more about diet than excercise, good abs are made in the kitchen.
;)

That said, I enjoy ab training, and thought I might pass along my favorite ab excercise. I'm going to do my best to describe it, and it makes the abs BURN!!!

You'll need a 10-12 pound medicine ball. While laying on your back, bring your chin to your chest so you can see whats going on and get some contraction going. Alternately lift a leg and pass the ball under it. With the ball in the right hand, lift the right leg way up and pass the ball under it into your left hand, lower your right leg, lift the left leg up and pass the ball back under it into the right hand. Works the whole package and the arms as well. I like to do it fast, I like to do it slow, but it's always a "burner".

If you do it as fast as you can, let me know if you can get over 80 leg lifts per set, it's murder, easily the toughest ab excercise I use. And the most enjoyable as not just about "crunching". and you get to work the arms too.

Hope that helps your core and provide an additional excercise option.
 
Carrera said:
Do you think abdominal work actually trims the waist or does it simply firm up the muscles below? My waist is about 35 but I'd like a couple of inches less.
Doing crunches and ab workouts just builds up the muscle below. To get rid of the fat you need to do aerobic workouts such as cycling, swimming, running. Just lifting weights wont really cut fat.
 
Long5686 said:
Doing crunches and ab workouts just builds up the muscle below. To get rid of the fat you need to do aerobic workouts such as cycling, swimming, running. Just lifting weights wont really cut fat.
i only use weights when i'm ding sit ups. 1 up place weight on chair, down, up take weight from chair extend arms and place weight behind, release weight, and repeat.

other than that VSits offer constant presure to the abs,

feet a couple of inces from the floor, shoulders slightly off the floor - situp and touch ones shins then back to the start position, these can be done 1 leg at a time also keeping one leg out stretched and hamstring to the floor throughout,
these really do hurt after awhile, like do doing sits from this position feet remaining elevated from the floor unsuported and rather than touching your shins just sit as normal...... Ouch!
 
Doctor Morbius said:
It's also a myth that you should do hundreds of reps of crunches -- your abs, like all other muscles in your body, respond best to PROGRESSIVE RESISTANCE training.


My abs are plenty strong already. Why wouldn't I want to do hundreds of reps to build fatigue resitance (i.e. endurance)? Seems to work for my legs.
 
beerco said:
My abs are plenty strong already. Why wouldn't I want to do hundreds of reps to build fatigue resitance (i.e. endurance)? Seems to work for my legs.

How 'bout because if you are using your abs on the bike, you are either 1) doing thousands and thousands of reps (which won't be much enhanced by 'only' doing hundreds of reps) or 2) contracting isometrically anyway (in which case doing hundreds of reps probably won't help much either).

Now, if you're a track sprinter, different story.
 
Aztec said:
How 'bout because if you are using your abs on the bike, you are either 1) doing thousands and thousands of reps (which won't be much enhanced by 'only' doing hundreds of reps) or 2) contracting isometrically anyway (in which case doing hundreds of reps probably won't help much either).

Now, if you're a track sprinter, different story.

I don't get it, are you supporting lots of reps or saying they won't help? I think there is a bigger difference between dozens of reps and hundreds than between hundreds and thousands. To draw an analogy, doing 2x20 threshold work helps your performance, even on rides much much longer than 20 minutes while doing leg squats won't improve your long ride performance at all.

Why should being able to crunch big weight a couple times help me at the end of a two hour race?

I've started doing a pilates like class once a week along with the regular ab stuff on another day- the class is about 45 minutes worth of isometric and regular style ab/back work. It seems to me (though it could be simply from riding as well) that my back has started hurting less toward the end of long races after about a month or so of doing this class. I didn't get this same benefit when I was simply doing a few dozen reps of ab work.
 
I turned 40 as well so I guess my role-modeks have to be Sharon Stone and Sly Stallone - both looked terrific in their 40's. In fact, during filming of the Specialist, Stallone reduced his body-fat to very low levels.
I've always been lazy over abs and have always been the butt of jokes in the past since I never used to worry about my waist. When I lifted and squatted heavy, I also ate a lot and my waist went as high as 38 inches. Now I'm just over 34 waist and am very meticulous about diet.
Much as I like pizza I now only treat myself every 3 weeks and spend the rest of the time on cottage cheese and tuna fish e.t.c. Nobody jokes about my waist anymore but I don't have any abdominals showing. It would be nice to tone the are up a little more but so far I only do crunches.


stormer94 said:
A "6-pack" is almost more about diet than excercise, good abs are made in the kitchen.
;)

That said, I enjoy ab training, and thought I might pass along my favorite ab excercise. I'm going to do my best to describe it, and it makes the abs BURN!!!

You'll need a 10-12 pound medicine ball. While laying on your back, bring your chin to your chest so you can see whats going on and get some contraction going. Alternately lift a leg and pass the ball under it. With the ball in the right hand, lift the right leg way up and pass the ball under it into your left hand, lower your right leg, lift the left leg up and pass the ball back under it into the right hand. Works the whole package and the arms as well. I like to do it fast, I like to do it slow, but it's always a "burner".

If you do it as fast as you can, let me know if you can get over 80 leg lifts per set, it's murder, easily the toughest ab excercise I use. And the most enjoyable as not just about "crunching". and you get to work the arms too.

Hope that helps your core and provide an additional excercise option.
 
beerco said:
I don't get it, are you supporting lots of reps or saying they won't help? I think there is a bigger difference between dozens of reps and hundreds than between hundreds and thousands. To draw an analogy, doing 2x20 threshold work helps your performance, even on rides much much longer than 20 minutes while doing leg squats won't improve your long ride performance at all.

Why should being able to crunch big weight a couple times help me at the end of a two hour race?

I've started doing a pilates like class once a week along with the regular ab stuff on another day- the class is about 45 minutes worth of isometric and regular style ab/back work. It seems to me (though it could be simply from riding as well) that my back has started hurting less toward the end of long races after about a month or so of doing this class. I didn't get this same benefit when I was simply doing a few dozen reps of ab work.

I'm definitely not advocating lots of reps, nor any kind of ab work specifically for improving performance (other than where a rider may have a back problem, or a material weakness). I'm saying that if you take the stand that you are doing 'reps' on the bike, then you'll do soooo many that another 100 of crunches won't matter. And if you then say that you actually use your abs isometrically, which I'm sure some will argue, then doing a bunch of reps won't help that much either.

But hey, do your ab work anyway since there's more to life than just spinning a crank faster.
 
beerco said:
"But hey, do your ab work anyway since there's more to life than just spinning a crank faster. I found that my ab routine didn't only make my abs stronger but i felt a little more confident about myself, i also found that my pain threshold had moved, so i could continue to work even though the pain was there.

Especially when your doing cramps, Vsits, Alternate Vsits (single leg), crunches, chopping,leg raises..... Quite alot that you may find in a pilates video on Kazza, all these i find strengthen the upper muscles of the thigh, not only that but the lower abdminals.

once youve mastered the basics. there are the more advanced that really do hurt, how can you say that these exercises dont move fat just build the muscle.

that statement is wrong if you wanted to speed up the process o getting a 6 pack then may be a diet that works would help.

you answer me this question: when did you last see a fat dancer, or an obese athlete. Since Pilates is the adominal type of routine that they follow.