Active 10 GPS

Mike Clark said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OK so yes you could get reasonable coverage of the UK perhaps for about
£700 plus the cost of the unit. Of course it will almost certainly be
restricted to the usual OS licensing agreements so that substantive
future updates of the hardware or software may require the purchase of
new versions of the maps as has happened for MM and Anquet.

1:25,000 digital mapping is expensive, why I don't know....I'm just
glad I don't have a need for it. Memory Map charge exactly the same
for it's National Parks areas as Satmap though where SM gives you
1;50,000 for the same area MM gives you aerial photographic mapping
for the same area. Of course Satmap mapping can't be used on a PC so
whilst very similar in pricing it is very limited in functionality.
Baptised my Active 10 today and I'm very happy with it.

In message <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Mike Clark said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

OK so yes you could get reasonable coverage of the UK perhaps for about
£700 plus the cost of the unit. Of course it will almost certainly be
restricted to the usual OS licensing agreements so that substantive
future updates of the hardware or software may require the purchase of
new versions of the maps as has happened for MM and Anquet.

1:25,000 digital mapping is expensive, why I don't know....I'm just
glad I don't have a need for it. Memory Map charge exactly the same
for it's National Parks areas as Satmap though where SM gives you
1;50,000 for the same area MM gives you aerial photographic mapping
for the same area. Of course Satmap mapping can't be used on a PC so
whilst very similar in pricing it is very limited in functionality.
Baptised my Active 10 today and I'm very happy with it.

Ah yes I hadn't taken account of the fact that the Satmap maps can't be
used on a PC with a decent sized screen.

Having recently moved up from a non-mapping Geko 301 to a Vista HCx with
UK topo maps I am currently quite happy with what the Vista has to
offer.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | reader in immunology, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

In message <[email hidden]>,
Ancient Brit <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On 25 Oct, 20:44, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Does anyone have any experience of the Active 10 GPS?
More details herehttp://satmap.com/

I want it for walking, as an alternative to OS maps.

GPS isn't an alternative to OS maps. Like the compass, it is an
instrument designed to make it easier to use maps and navigate in poor
visibility. If you go into mountains with GPS and no maps you are
asking for trouble.

ancient brit

Then I ask for trouble a lot! Strangely, the trouble does not ask back
for me.

--
Martin Richardson
670/1554 Marilyns - aiming for 777 71/118 New Donalds - only 40% to go
100/211 Irish Hewitts - 111 hitts left 42/220 Corbetts - only 81% to go

In message <[email hidden]>

Martin Richardson said:

In message <[email hidden]>,
Ancient Brit <[email hidden]> writes

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

GPS isn't an alternative to OS maps. Like the compass, it is an
instrument designed to make it easier to use maps and navigate in poor
visibility. If you go into mountains with GPS and no maps you are
asking for trouble.

ancient brit

Then I ask for trouble a lot! Strangely, the trouble does not ask back
for me.

And obviously before the advent of good mapping data, nobody ever
ventured into the mountains.

:-)

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | reader in immunology, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Mike Clark said:

And obviously before the advent of good mapping data, nobody ever
ventured into the mountains.

Is there perhaps a hint of Catch-22 in the SMC asking Munro to survey
the mountains to see how many 3000s there were when he couldn't possibly
have visited many of them without a map? ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Mike Clark said:

And obviously before the advent of good mapping data, nobody ever
ventured into the mountains.

Is there perhaps a hint of Catch-22 in the SMC asking Munro to survey
the mountains to see how many 3000s there were when he couldn't possibly
have visited many of them without a map? ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

1:25,000 digital mapping is expensive, why I don't know....I'm just
glad I don't have a need for it. Memory Map charge exactly the same
for it's National Parks areas as Satmap though where SM gives you
1;50,000 for the same area MM gives you aerial photographic mapping
for the same area. Of course Satmap mapping can't be used on a PC so
whilst very similar in pricing it is very limited in functionality.
Baptised my Active 10 today and I'm very happy with it.

Yes OK the 64 thousand dollar question CAN you download a route from
Memory map or Anquet BECAUSE the jury is still very uncertain about the
matter. (The Satmap people are rather coy over what will be doable)

A local walk shop have 'belled' me to say that they will have a unit in
store cum Monday - I would dearly love to buy BUT there is a nagging
feeling about connectivity.
My method is to plot a route before walk and currently print out
section
or download waypoints to GPS 12.

The expense of mapping is down to OS screwing everybody for every last
penny and it rather grates when one has/does upgrade and SPEND yet more
money to get basically the same bloody maps again
--
dave hill

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

My position, using just roads and free contours, is that in practice,
you really don't need that much detail for effective navigation. I
rarely ever need to get the map out these days.

I got in a bit of a difficult situation this summer on the back end of
Cnicht with only a 50k map printed at 25k scale, altimeter and compass.
The cloud was very low, visibility only about 10 yards, getting darkish
at 5pm and trying to find a track down to Cwm Croesor past the mine
workings.

I certainly wished I had more detail on the contours, to see which
direction was not a good idea to go in. This wall

http://whr.bangor.ac.uk/pre1997/rhosydd0190.jpg

does not appear on the OS map, and I found myself on it able to see
nothing below and not knowing how to descend to the Cwm in the picture.

For the first time in my walking experience I began to assess places to
overnight, and to conserve my food and water.

I don't know if a GPS would have helped if it only had 50k maps.

Eventually I found that long path on the left, and descended to the
valley track in the centre of the picture: then only striding out on
that brought me to the car in Croesor about 6pm.

Interesting to compare the photo I found later with the pictures of mist
I have on the camera!

(If anyone has a 25K map of SH6646 area I'd like to see it!)

--
Bernard Hill
Braeburn Software
Author of Music Publisher system
Music Software written by musicians for musicians
http://www.braeburn.co.uk
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Most hill walking is done in good visibility

!!!

I wish it were so.

Having travelled tens or hundreds of miles to a walking area you have to
be really lucky to stay out of the clouds.

--
Bernard Hill

Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

But you can still work out your direction from the slope of the
contours.

If the hill is nice and regular. But 50k maps are unreliable on
micro-navigation on many hills and that's what you need for avoiding
difficult pathless terrain. You may know you need to go South, but
whether it's navigable going south is not known.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Challands
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I also fail to understand what's so bad about just wearing shorts and
t-shirts on a sunny day.

in one word: tics.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

he second is the difference between the conditions down in the valley
and up on the tops. Last weekend gave contrasting conditions between
Friday and Saturday and Sunday. On Friday it was so still I didn't need
anything over my shirt. On Saturday there was a breeze at low level
which just about justified an open fleece but on the tops a fleece* was
only just enough when moving and a jacket was required at the lunch
break. On Sunday when I was on my own for a 5 hour walk the wind was
marginally colder and I just didn't bother to stop.

The third is the nature of the margins. It is not at all pleasant going
through solid nettles without some protection on the legs and wet
bracken is best tackled in overtrousers regardless of whether it is
raining or not.

The forth is what should happen if you become disabled for any reason.
The more you are carrying (within reason) the more chance you have of
surviving. It doesn't have to be anything serious. Sudden loss of
energy or a twisted ankle miles from the nearest person can turn a day
out from a pleasant walk to a struggle for survival in an instant. If
you have a companion or a mobile phone you could perhaps rely on them
to summon assistance but sods law says that even if you walk alone only
occasionally when you need help you will be on your own and if you have
a mobile you won't be able to get a signal when you need it.

Exactly all my thoughts. As I walk alone almost always my wife insists I
carry extra clothes, food, and an emergency bag. While it's for her
peace of mind I think it's very sensible indeed.

I remember on a walk up Ben Dorain in perishing cold and high wind (I
turned back) coming across a used emergency bag. A chilling thought (pun
intended)

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I think anyone who walks on their own has a cavalier attitude to risk
taking but then I started doing it when it was received wisdom that
walkers should travel in parties of at least three.

In my case I know of no-one else who likes hill-walking. But I do
confess to enjoying being alone and self-reliant.

But I am under no illusions about the danger: which is why my rucksack
weighs about 28 pounds for a day's outing.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Challands
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Roger said:

Quoted message said:

If you are so keen to killfile me, why respond to my post? If you feel
you have to respond to what I say, then why killfile me? Even 3% full
(3% of what? why is there a limit) sounds overly intolerant; the only
person I've got killfiled is a certain Angus.

You are kill filed so I don't need to respond to you pretentious
nonsense in the future. As you have gone out of your way to make sure I
see your replies it is only polite to respond.

OK, final one, then, whether or not you respond to this. I don't see
how you can use the word "polite" in this context. You've started
getting rude ever since there was a difference of opinion over a
serious matter (and what is sensible equipment and precautions to take
on the hills and what is just being paranoid is a serious matter
worthy of debate). All you have done since then is insult me. I've
seen your posts in this ng before and thought you were a reasonable
type of person, but this wholly unexpected vitriol has caught me by
surprise and saddened me. Almost every time you reply to a point it's
not to answer, but just to hurl abuse. I'm afraid to say you're just
coming across as a deeply unpleasant person. The way you're carrying
on anyone would think I'd accused you of being a murderer rather than
indirectly implying a paranoid attitude, which, true or not, is hardly
a killing insult.

As I said, I'm not going to dig out another address to reply
(admittedly I think I said that last time). There is no point in
talking to someone who perceives deliberate personal attacks, reacts
to them like a spoiled child, and apparently refuses to try to see if
there's been a genuine misunderstanding. Not receiving a reply from
such a person in the future due to being killfiled is no great loss.

Hey guys, chill out!

remember the basic rule of usegroups: if a post angers you, reply
tomorrow.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>,
Ancient Brit <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The biggest ADVANTAGE of the GPS over the compass (with map) was that
it gave me distance, so I didn't have to do any pace-counting which I
had often had to do in poor visibility in the past and the GPS is much
more accurate than pace-counting. The other big advantage of GPS was
that it, when following a bearing, I could deviate from the straight
line to use the easiest way through the terrain and then come back to
line, where I would have tried to stay closer to the bearing using a
compass.

There are however DISADVANTAGES to using a GPS. If you are using
walking poles, unless you have a third hand, a compass is more
convenient for the continuous use needed in extreme conditions than
GPS. There are times when you have difficulty getting a satellite
signal. Especially in FORESTS, but try turning your GPS on in a
blizzard and see if you can get a fix. (There were blizzards this
summer!!) There are a few places, eg the Cuillin Mountains on Skye,
where you need to be able to mico-navigate the fine detail on the map

The biggest problem, however, is that you CAN'T CHANGE YOUR ROUTE. What
happens if something happens which means you need to change your route?
This could be accident or injury. It could be because you have
underestimate the time for your walk. This summer for me it was usually
because the wind made it necessary for me to abandon walks. For others
it could be because of rain or cloud. If you haven't got a map with you
it is difficult to change your route safely. (Remembering it is in poor
weather that you are most likely to want to change your route)

Excellent advice. I appreciate that post. Thanks.

(From a non GPS user.)
--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Bernard Hill
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

(If anyone has a 25K map of SH6646 area I'd like to see it!

Get-a-map is your friend.

http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/

Click the pink button, enter your grid ref and hit Go.

--

Dominic Sexton

dave hill said:

[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

1:25,000 digital mapping is expensive, why I don't know....I'm just
glad I don't have a need for it. Memory Map charge exactly the same
for it's National Parks areas as Satmap though where SM gives you
1;50,000 for the same area MM gives you aerial photographic mapping
for the same area. Of course Satmap mapping can't be used on a PC so
whilst very similar in pricing it is very limited in functionality.
Baptised my Active 10 today and I'm very happy with it.

Yes OK the 64 thousand dollar question CAN you download a route from
Memory map or Anquet BECAUSE the jury is still very uncertain about the
matter. (The Satmap people are rather coy over what will be doable)> dave hill

You cannot upload/download a route to the Active 10 yet....they are
releasing a simple programme to transfer routes from a PC to the unit
and back....hopefully fairly soon. In the meantime you have to make do
with inbuilt route creator. I know Memory Map can Export routes to
certain GPS units directly but I shouldn't think Satmap will be one of
them

In message <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

dave hill said:

[email hidden] writes

Quoted message said:

1:25,000 digital mapping is expensive, why I don't know....I'm just
glad I don't have a need for it. Memory Map charge exactly the same
for it's National Parks areas as Satmap though where SM gives you
1;50,000 for the same area MM gives you aerial photographic mapping
for the same area. Of course Satmap mapping can't be used on a PC so
whilst very similar in pricing it is very limited in functionality.
Baptised my Active 10 today and I'm very happy with it.

Yes OK the 64 thousand dollar question CAN you download a route from
Memory map or Anquet BECAUSE the jury is still very uncertain about the
matter. (The Satmap people are rather coy over what will be doable)> dave hill

You cannot upload/download a route to the Active 10 yet....they are
releasing a simple programme to transfer routes from a PC to the unit
and back....hopefully fairly soon.

But even if you can transfer the routes, unless the mapping data can
also be used it means you'll have to buy the maps all over again for the
PC.

Quoted message said:

In the meantime you have to make do with inbuilt route creator. I know
Memory Map can Export routes to certain GPS units directly but I
shouldn't think Satmap will be one of them

Bot MM and Anquet support a wide range of GPSs for tracklog and
routing data as well as allowing maps to be used on a PDA.

The more I hear about the limitations of the Active 10, the more it
looks like being a Do Do of a product.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | reader in immunology, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"

Mike Clark said:

But even if you can transfer the routes, unless the mapping data can
also be used it means you'll have to buy the maps all over again for the
PC.

Quoted message said:

Bot MM and Anquet support a wide range of GPSs for tracklog and
routing data as well as allowing maps to be used on a PDA.

The more I hear about the limitations of the Active 10, the more it
looks like being a Do Do of a product.>

Satmap say they will have an online route creator available for it's
customers but there are no details about what kind of mapping it will
use....I can't see it being OS 1:50,000 probably more like
Googlemaps.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Challands
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I also fail to understand what's so bad about just wearing shorts and
t-shirts on a sunny day.

in one word: tics.

Your one word is short a letter. Unless you really meant uncontrollable
facial muscle spasms. 8>.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
10,002 Km walked. 1,952 Km PROWs surveyed. 35.5% complete.