Andy's bib no.

Andy - Thanks for the inspiration - in the training, the racing, and the attitude.

Sorry that it didn't all click on race day.

Good luck for future races and PRs. OT in 2008??

Anthony.

[email hidden] wrote:

Good show for giving it your best. Don't fret the DNF, at times we learn more from a DNF
then a finish.

Quoted message said:

Another attempt is out. I am over-trained so I need a long, long recovery followed by a slow
build-up not reaching full training until sometime in December. I'll go for a more conservative
2:24-2:25 in Boston.

Help me here. Back to full training in December and THEN run Boston in April. Is that an additional
three months of training? If I remember correctly I felt taking 7(I think it was 7) minutes off your
PR to make the 2:22 was a big leap. So I assume from the above you are on a two year plan to get to
the 2:22 although it will not help for the 2004 olympics.

You know the training that you did was too something. What will you
do differently in your training for Boston to shave off 3-4 minutes?
I assume you have run Boston and know it is not as fast as Chitown.
Don't forget to pound some long downhills to prep you for the
first 15 miles. Short downhill repeats in my opinion will not do it.

Good luck!!!

--
Doug Freese [email hidden]

Doug Freese said:

Help me here. Back to full training in December and THEN run Boston in April. Is that an
additional three months of training? If I remember correctly I felt taking 7(I think it was 7)
minutes off your PR to make the 2:22 was a big leap. So I assume from the above you are on a two
year plan to get to the 2:22 although it will not help for the 2004 olympics. You know the
training that you did was too something. What will you do differently in your training for Boston
to shave off 3-4 minutes? I assume you have run Boston and know it is not as fast as Chitown.
Don't forget to pound some long downhills to prep you for the first 15 miles. Short downhill
repeats in my opinion will not do it. Doug Freese [email hidden]

---- Yes, 7:27 off my PR in a single year was a big leap. However I feel that I was pretty close to
doing it, I know it would have been close on a great day. Since the deadline is now off however, I
think it's wise to try and take this more incrementally. Run 2:24-2:25 first, then go for better.
Running a marathon at 5:25 pace is a whole different experience than 2:29. Besides that, there is
the credentialing to take into account. A 2:29 is good, but not worth all that much when it comes
to getting perks and elite entry status at races. However, a 2:24 would get me elite or sub-elite
entry at most marathons in the US. So to run a 2:24 first, then go for 2:22 when I have a better
elite setup at a race would be easier. As for what to do differently, I learned a lot this time
around. #1, not to stack so many 20-22 milers together...take a break every 3rd week or so. Also,
take an easy week every 3-4 weeks. My coach removed a lot of recovery weeks from my schedule and I
paid dearly for it (I'm back to coaching myself now). I'll be racing more, both to help the speed
and keep me used to racing. Plus it helps keep the training more fun. I'll be doing Boston in April
but possibly Houston in January too. My fiancee is from Houston and it'd be good to visit down
there. I ran Boston in 2001 (2:37) so I know the course. I'll get the hill practice in. My quads
gave out at 22.5 that year from the hills. It's all about knowing how to run them WITHOUT pounding
so much. Andy Hass

Quoted message said:

As for what to do differently, I learned a lot this time around. #1, not
to stack so many 20-22 milers together...take a break every 3rd week or so.

I'm going to stop posting if your not going to read it. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Also, take an easy week every 3-4 weeks.

Ditto.

Quoted message said:

My coach removed a lot of recovery weeks from my schedule and I paid dearly for it (I'm back to
coaching myself now).

Was he keeping daily/weekly tabs by phone or first hand observation?
How did he react when you experienced the early stages of being
tired? Did he chalk it off to part and parcel of going for the gold?

Finding the "right" coach is not easy. Lots of people with and without good credentials but they are
often regimented in their advice without regards dialog/feedback and the individual. Going alone is
also difficult without that second set of eyes.

Quoted message said:

I ran Boston in 2001 (2:37) so I know the course. I'll get the hill practice in. My quads gave
out at 22.5 that year from the hills.

Ain't it a [censored]? 21 is the top of the Newton Hills with the rest of race down and in and your guads
are mush. Been there done that.

Quoted message said:

It's all about knowing how to run them WITHOUT pounding so much.

Techniques always helps but practice even with poor form will help.

Good luck!!

--
Doug Freese [email hidden]

Doug Freese said:

Quoted message said:

My coach removed a lot of recovery weeks from my schedule and I paid dearly for it (I'm back to
coaching myself now).

Quoted message said:

Was he keeping daily/weekly tabs by phone or first hand observation? How did he react when you
experienced the early stages of being tired? Did he chalk it off to part and parcel of going for
the gold? Finding the "right" coach is not easy. Lots of people with and without good credentials
but they are often regimented in their advice without regards dialog/feedback and the individual.
Going alone is also difficult without that second set of eyes.

---Part of the problem was it was internet coaching with a weekly phone call. However I was very
detailed in the info he got so he had a decent idea what was going on. Part of the problem was I
warned that it felt like over-training and for several weeks he said I was just tired and needed
to push through. Not all his fault though, our history only went back to Feb. so he wasn't
necessarily familiar with the fact that he should trust that I knew the difference. I guess the
reason I'm willing to do it alone again is the great success I have had that way. It took a couple
years of trial and error, but as long as I make myself sit down and plan training ahead I do well
with it. Andy Hass