Another silly accident !!!

Gonzalez said:

Cycling at 20 mph on a main road is not unreasonable.

I'll slow down a bit, then ;-)

Quoted message said:

What price should we pay for safety? Restricting cyclists to under 15 mph on main roads? Under 10
mph? Where will this end?

Not necessary. The point I was making (and in full and declared ignorance of the fine detail of the
case) was that when riding around town, especially near pedestrian crossings, kids will run out.
It's not their fault; that's what kids do. Riding within the limits etc. etc. should mean one is far
enough out and vigilant enough to stop or avoid the crash. Many of us would fail, but hopefully not
to quite the catastrophic degree of the OP.

Cars drive much closer to the line of parked cars, and much faster, and are habitually less
vigilant. The children concerned are lucky it wasn't a cager ensuring his safety by driving in
excess of the speed limit; if it had been they would be dead. In crahses where cars hit children the
children are more likely to have taken evasive action, as I think I said. That's a sobering thought.
But reading up on that kind of stuff has not only made me a substantially slower and more careful
driver, it's made me challenge my assumptions about the rights and wrongs of bike v. pavement
lemming crashes as well, particularly where said lemmings are children.

Sorry, soapbox mode off.

Quoted message said:

Someone has even suggested a ban on bicycles in Greenwich Park, as it is, bicycles are restricted
to one road and just one footpath within the park's boundaries.

Bikes and peds don't mix well. The government's inability to understand this simple and obvious
factis at the root of many of the legendary "farcilities" we now see, including shared use
pavements.

Guy
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Just zis Guy said:

Quoted message said:

The way it reads is that kids being kids they walked into the road without looking. It's an awful
shame for the kids and Neil, but still the fault of the kids.

Think about it for a moment: are we blaming the children for behaving like children, and
exonorating the person in control of a vehicle who failed to anticipate this? Not trying to be
contentious, you understand, but worth mulling over.

This isn't about trying to apportion blame. This poor guy is cycling along the road, and someone
steps out in front of him. The kid obviously wasn't thinking about roads at the time (as kids tend
not to on occasion), and the cyclist was just doing the normal thing. Even cycling at a distance
from the car and at slow speed it's possible that given the right situation the same thing would
happen. I have been driving a car when the same thing happened, and it scared the living [censored] out of
me, although thankfully I stopped in time.

Also there's a legal standpoint. The cyclist was doing nothing wrong, not breaking any speed limits
or presumably any highway code.

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Just zis Guy said:

Bikes and peds don't mix well. The government's inability to understand this simple and obvious
factis at the root of many of the legendary "farcilities" we now see, including shared use
pavements.

I don't see how closing the one road through Greenwich Park to cyclists while extending the use of
footpaths to cyclists, as one poster now seems to be suggesting, will remedy this.
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In "]news:[email hidden], John B <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Don't worry. I think he may be Pa*l Sm*th ;-)

Damn, found me out.;-)

Tony

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"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

In "]news:[email hidden], Neil D <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I think I've had dealings with you before.

?

Quoted message said:

Who are you to decide blame, If I require any reply, its not from the likes of you.

Don't post on Usenet or killfile me then.

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

Just thought i'd put in my two pennies worth as i cycle through greenwich park every day.

I'm not sure why the attention is being drawn to cyclists who use the road through the park and not the cars. I think i would prefer to be run down by a bike doing 30mph than a car.

I actually don't use the road anymore and illegally use the path that runs down the hill to the right as it takes me to the most convienant exit. Been doing this for three years and never been close to having an accident with peds. If i anticipate that i will be cycling close to peds / dogs i brake to dead slow, i.e walking pace.

I get the occassional comment from dog walkers, "get off the path you [censored]" , but just smile back and comfort myself with the fact that i don't take a [censored] on the grass and bite people

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Tony Raven
In "]news:[email hidden], Neil D <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

I think I've had dealings with you before.

?

Quoted message said:

Who are you to decide blame, If I require any reply, its not from the likes of you.

Don't post on Usenet or killfile me then.

Tony

--
raven-family.comraven-family.comOpen ↗

"All truth goes through three steps: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer

StainlessSteelRat said:

This poor guy is cycling along the road, and someone steps out in front of him. The kid obviously
wasn't thinking about roads at the time (as kids tend not to on occasion), and the cyclist was just
doing the normal thing.

Sure, and I've had the same happen, but each time I've been going slow enough to stop or avert
serious injury (other than to pride and), or I've been far enough out to avoid the incident. I
wasn't there, of course. Last time I came really close to killing a child was when they came
thrashing down their driveway (behind hedges) and straight out into the road on their little bike; I
was driving my sister's Mini at the time and stopped almost touching said kid. It scared me a lot,
but it scared the kid even more. So yes I acknowledge that it could easily not be the OPs fault, and
I apologise for being brusque, but I do maintain that there is a serious point to be made about the
road system (which is part of the built environment in which we live) and its innate hostility to
children. With cars parked along both sides of most side streets and white vans using the space in
between to re-enact the rebel assault on the Death Star, it's hardly surprising that the roads are
the biggest killer of children in the UK.

Guy
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Just zis Guy said:

Quoted message said:

This poor guy is cycling along the road, and someone steps out in front of him. The kid obviously
wasn't thinking about roads at the time (as kids tend not to on occasion), and the cyclist was
just doing the normal thing.

Sure, and I've had the same happen, but each time I've been going slow enough to stop or avert
serious injury (other than to pride and), or I've been far enough out to avoid the incident. I
wasn't there, of course. Last time I came really close to killing a child was when they came
thrashing down their driveway (behind hedges) and straight out into the road on their little bike;
I was driving my sister's Mini at the time and stopped almost touching said kid. It scared me a
lot, but it scared the kid even more. So yes I acknowledge that it could easily not be the OPs
fault, and I apologise for being brusque, but I do maintain that there is a serious point to be
made about the road system (which is part of the built environment in which we live) and its
innate hostility to children. With cars parked along both sides of most side streets and white
vans using the space in between to re-enact the rebel assault on the Death Star, it's hardly
surprising that the roads are the biggest killer of children in the UK.

It's important to distinguish between bike and car accidents though. I doubt many people are killed
in purely bike accidents, compared with cars.

The best approach is for everyone (pedestrians and drivers) to be taught and aware of the most
sensible things to do depending on the situation. It seems there isn't as much tuition for kids on
road safety as when I was a nipper.

--
StainlessSteelRat "It was a perfect marriage. She didn't want to and he couldn't." -- Spike Milligan

StainlessSteelRat said:

It's important to distinguish between bike and car accidents though. I doubt many people are killed
in purely bike accidents, compared with cars.

True enough. Cars kill several dozen pedestrians on the pavements alone every year, whereas bikes
kill on average less than one pedestrian annually. Mohammed Saeed Al-Smith would no doubt suggest
that if the cars were driving along the pavements at ninety, and the pedestrians practicing Advanced
Walking techniques, it would all be much safer.

Guy
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StainlessSteelRat said:

The best approach is for everyone (pedestrians and drivers) to be taught and aware of the most
sensible things to do depending on the situation. It seems there isn't as much tuition for kids on
road safety as when I was a nipper.

Children in my primary school are lucky if they have one visit from the borough road safety officer
every two years.
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