Any good onion soup recipes??



Victor Sack wrote:

> PENMART01 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>>(Victor Sack) wrote:
>>>
>>>Here's a recipe
>
>
> I notice that, for some reason, you saw it fit to snip both the author, Patricia Wells, and the
> source, the Pied de Cochon brasserie in Paris.
>
>
>>>6 cups (1.5 l) unsalted chicken stock, preferably homemade
>>
>>Beef stock would be far more appropriate.
>
>
> Appropriate where? There are many more traditional variations of 'French Onion Soup' made with
> chicken stock, mixture of chicken and beef stock, or with plain water. Each of them, when made
> right, is very good indeed. Beef stock versions, while certainly not unknown in France, are much
> more popular in America. See, for example, <http://www.hertzmann.com/articles/2001/onion/>.
>
>
>>>1. Preheat the oven to 425°F (220°C).
>>>2. Combine the onion, wine, and butter in a baking dish and braise, uncovered,
>>
>>Braising necessitates covering... you go on to describe simmering the onion and butter in wine...
>>I would suggest caramelizing the onion in the butter and blending the wine with the stock to be
>>used in the next step
>
>
> Good point. The onions do caramelise a bit, due to the relatively very long 'braising' of this
> kind. The soup served at the restaurant is very tasty indeed, if not anywhere near the very best.
> I made it at home a few times following the recipe and the results were better. The proof's in the
> practice.
>
>
>>>until the onion is very soft and most of the liquid is absorbed, about 45 minutes.
>>
>>Not absorbed, *reduced*.
>
>
> Indeed. However, some wine is absorbed, too. One can still detect a bit of the wine taste in
> the onions.
>
>
>>Not a very a satisfactory recipe.
>
>
> Try it, perhaps you'll change your opinion. Also see a review at
> <http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/01/28/e1.fd.onionsoup.0128.html>.
>
> Victor
Even in this recipe the onions are not dropped in liquid until they are well caramelized; notice the
picture of the caramelized onions.

Rich

--
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Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.
 
Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote in news:_rfVb.3161$Lp.3145
@twister.nyc.rr.com:

> As long as there is wine in the pan, how will the onions caramelize?
>
> Or do you let the wine evaporate?
>
> French onion soup calls for very caramelized onions. At least most of the times I've eaten it in
> French and quasi French restaurants both here and France.
>
> Rich
>

Hmmm... I would guess that the "real" French restaurants were those in France. The others were
probably "quasi"? <G
 
Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > the author, Patricia Wells, and the source, the Pied de Cochon brasserie in Paris.
[snip]
> > Try it, perhaps you'll change your opinion. Also see a review at
> > <http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/01/28/e1.fd.onionsoup.0128.html>.
> >
> Even in this recipe the onions are not dropped in liquid until they are well caramelized; notice
> the picture of the caramelized onions.

The recipe is Kim Davaz's, the author of the article, not Pied-de-Cochon's. Read a review of the
latter soup in the article?

Victor
 
Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:

> >>Victor Sack wrote:
> >>
> >>> Soupe à l'Oignon Pied de Cochon
> >>> Pied de Cochon's Onion Soup
> >
> >>I don't see how the onions are going to caramelize when surrounded by so much liquid??
> >
> > Again, owing to the long cooking time, some caramelisation does take place. Too much
> > caramelisation is unwelcome - one doesn't want one's onion soup to taste sweet.
>
> As long as there is wine in the pan, how will the onions caramelize?

As long as the temperature in the onions can exceed a certain level, the sugars therein will start
to caramelise. It is not necessary to boil off all of the liquid to achieve that state, it is enough
when there is no longer enough of it to prevent a contact of onions with the bottom of the pan.

> Or do you let the wine evaporate?

Not all of it.

> French onion soup calls for very caramelized onions. At least most of the times I've eaten it in
> French and quasi French restaurants both here and France.

There is no such thing as a uniform recipe for French onion soup - it is not a 'branded' recipe,
like fettuccine all'Alfredo or Caesar's salad. It would be akin to declaring that French onion soup
calls for beef stock. You can only talk about what and where is typical or traditional. Most
*French* recipes I've seen call for the onions to be cooked just until golden, for 10-15 minutes or
so. It is only in the prototypical panade d'oignons, as described, for example, by Richard Olney,
that I have seen a recipe that calls for an hour of slow cooking and a where a lot of
caramelisation is supposed to take place. There is no doubt that other such recipes exist, but how
typical are they?

Victor
 
Victor Sack wrote:

> Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>>
>>>the author, Patricia Wells, and the source, the Pied de Cochon brasserie in Paris.
>
> [snip]
>
>>>Try it, perhaps you'll change your opinion. Also see a review at
>>><http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/01/28/e1.fd.onionsoup.0128.html>.
>>>
>>
>>Even in this recipe the onions are not dropped in liquid until they are well caramelized; notice
>>the picture of the caramelized onions.
>
>
> The recipe is Kim Davaz's, the author of the article, not Pied-de-Cochon's. Read a review of the
> latter soup in the article?
>
> Victor
Yes, that's evident. My point is that even in this recipe, the onions are left to caramelize before
any liquid is added.

Rich

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.
 
Victor Sack wrote:

> Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>>>Victor Sack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Soupe à l'Oignon Pied de Cochon
>>>>> Pied de Cochon's Onion Soup
>>>
>>>>I don't see how the onions are going to caramelize when surrounded by so much liquid??
>>>
>>>Again, owing to the long cooking time, some caramelisation does take place. Too much
>>>caramelisation is unwelcome - one doesn't want one's onion soup to taste sweet.
>>
>>As long as there is wine in the pan, how will the onions caramelize?
>
>
> As long as the temperature in the onions can exceed a certain level, the sugars therein will
> start to caramelise. It is not necessary to boil off all of the liquid to achieve that state, it
> is enough when there is no longer enough of it to prevent a contact of onions with the bottom of
> the pan.
>
>
>>Or do you let the wine evaporate?
>
>
> Not all of it.
>
>
>>French onion soup calls for very caramelized onions. At least most of the times I've eaten it in
>>French and quasi French restaurants both here and France.
>
>
> There is no such thing as a uniform recipe for French onion soup - it is not a 'branded' recipe,
> like fettuccine all'Alfredo or Caesar's salad. It would be akin to declaring that French onion
> soup calls for beef stock. You can only talk about what and where is typical or traditional. Most
> *French* recipes I've seen call for the onions to be cooked just until golden, for 10-15 minutes
> or so. It is only in the prototypical panade d'oignons, as described, for example, by Richard
> Olney, that I have seen a recipe that calls for an hour of slow cooking and a where a lot of
> caramelisation is supposed to take place. There is no doubt that other such recipes exist, but how
> typical are they?
>
> Victor

Yes, that is true, but don't you think that there are certain elements in a recipe, which should be
always used to avoid deviating too much? I mean, if you tell me that there is a variation of French
onion soup, which doesn't have any onions; then you can't say that it's a variation.

Anyway, my stay in France was brief (I got mugged) , and a long time ago; so perhaps you have more
experience on the subject.

Rich

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Victor Sack wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>the author, Patricia Wells, and the source, the Pied de Cochon brasserie in Paris.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >>>Try it, perhaps you'll change your opinion. Also see a review at
> >>><http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/01/28/e1.fd.onionsoup.0128.html>.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Even in this recipe the onions are not dropped in liquid until they are well caramelized; notice
> >>the picture of the caramelized onions.
> >
> >
> > The recipe is Kim Davaz's, the author of the article, not Pied-de-Cochon's. Read a review of the
> > latter soup in the article?
> >
> > Victor
> Yes, that's evident. My point is that even in this recipe, the onions are left to caramelize
> before any liquid is added.
>
> Rich

Are you this anal in real life???

--
Sprout the Mung Bean to reply...

>,,<Cat's Haven Hobby Farm>,,<[email protected]>,,<
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=katra
 
Katra wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Victor Sack wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Victor Sack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the author, Patricia Wells, and the source, the Pied de Cochon brasserie in Paris.
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Try it, perhaps you'll change your opinion. Also see a review at
>>>>><http://www.registerguard.com/news/2004/01/28/e1.fd.onionsoup.0128.html>.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Even in this recipe the onions are not dropped in liquid until they are well caramelized; notice
>>>>the picture of the caramelized onions.
>>>
>>>
>>>The recipe is Kim Davaz's, the author of the article, not Pied-de-Cochon's. Read a review of the
>>>latter soup in the article?
>>>
>>>Victor
>>
>>Yes, that's evident. My point is that even in this recipe, the onions are left to caramelize
>>before any liquid is added.
>>
>>Rich
>
>
> Are you this anal in real life???
>
It's not a question about being anal, it's a polemic which involves the subject being discussed:
whether or not to caramelize onions well enough, before making French Onion Soup--which btw, I make
often, and before I give that recipe a try, I want to make sure. Or perhaps you can give me the
money to buy the ingredients and experiment at your expense?

Rich

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dum spiro, spero. (Cicero) As long as I breathe, I hope.
 
Richard Periut <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yes, that is true, but don't you think that there are certain elements in a recipe, which should
> be always used to avoid deviating too much?

Eh? You are talking about a degree of caramelisation of onions...

BTW, Patricia Wells's Pied de Cochon onion soup recipe is simple and easy to make... why not just
try it? It's very good. The proof's in the practice.

Victor
 
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