T
Tom Sherman
Guest
Andrew Muzi wrote:
>>>> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> There has never been any indication that ridership has suffered as the
>>>>> result of an MHL. This doesn't mean that MHLs are a good idea, just
>>>>> that
>>>>> fighting them with myths of reduced ridership is probably futile.
>
>>> Ron Ruff <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> How about a 36% drop? For teenagers it was over 50%.
>>>> http://www.roble.net/marquis/cached/agbu.une.edu.au/~drobinso/velo1/velo.html
>>>> Do you have any reason to claim that ridership did not drop anywhere?
>
>> clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
>>> Drop in ridership among teenagers may have COINCIDED with helmet laws
>>> without being caused by them.
>>> Kids do not ride bikes for fun anymore. They do not ride bikes to
>>> school.
>>> Heck, they don't play outside any more in many large cities - even
>>> small cities and towns, because PLAYING is percieved as being unsafe.
>>> Being OUTSIDE is percieved as being unsafe.
>>> Kids get driven to school when they live less than 8 blocks from
>>> school. They "play" video games. Their exercise is all organized
>>> sports.
>>>
>>> At the elementary school a block from my home, where my now 25 and 26
>>> year old daughters went to school, there used to be 3 or 4 bike racks
>>> that would be FULL every spring and fall day. There are now twice as
>>> many students - with a whole field full of portable classrooms, and
>>> virtually no bicycles MHL was in effect when my kids went to school.
>>>
>>> Used to be a veritable troup of kids walking past the house to and
>>> from school. Now the street is packed with mini-vans and SUVs before
>>> and after school as concerned parents drop off and pick up their kids
>>> as close to the school as the law allows.
>>>
>>> At the highschool it's the same. Not too many bicycles, compared to
>>> years ago. More cars.
>>> And cars ARE more deadly to teanagers than bicycles.
>>> And those who DO ride bikes for fun and to school keep "junker bikes"
>>> to ride to school because good ones will be stolen or trashed when
>>> parked - by young thugs who have nothing better to do with their time.
>>> Even the junkers get the wheels bent and other parts torn off or
>>> trashed.
>>> ANd we live in a GOOD area.
>>> As a young guy I'd jump on my bike and with a bunch of friends ride
>>> off across town, or out of town a few miles to go hiking or fishing
>>> and think nothing of it. 50 mile trips (round trip)were fairly
>>> commonplace. We had no local transit, and most families only had one
>>> car so we walked or biked to school and back.
>>> I biked to and from work on the farm 6 miles out of town every weekend
>>> during the school year, and most weekends during the summer. Half the
>>> way was on a main highway - but the traffic was not nearly what it is
>>> today.
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Sometimes the older days really were better (in my case late 1970's to
>> early 1980's).
>
>> It is too bad that people have not shown more restraint in breeding.
>> The world would be a much better place with only 1 to 2 billion people.
>
> That's not what we have to work with. Any good ideas from here?
> (growing tomatoes in the Sahara by mulching large numbers of humans may
> not actually be a workable solution)
>
Darn!
> Back to topic, I delivered 25~35 bicycles on Christmas Eve and Christmas
> morning for many years but not a single one in this century. Kids don't
> ride now. My nieces attend a school district where bicycles are not
> allowed at school and that is no longer unusual.
Utterly ridiculous. I used to ride a bicycle [1] to school year around
in Wisconsin.
> Beyond, they aren't
> allowed to a park 2 blocks away without an adult. The goal of 'safety'
> is skewed to salacious and weird dangers which are in fact exceedingly
> rare and less common that ever in history. Bicycles are a mere symptom
> of larger social failings.
Will their parents go off to college with them, or accompany them to
their first job? Will they be able to feed themselves without assistance?
[1] Purchased from Andrew's shop, in fact.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
>>>> SMS <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> There has never been any indication that ridership has suffered as the
>>>>> result of an MHL. This doesn't mean that MHLs are a good idea, just
>>>>> that
>>>>> fighting them with myths of reduced ridership is probably futile.
>
>>> Ron Ruff <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> How about a 36% drop? For teenagers it was over 50%.
>>>> http://www.roble.net/marquis/cached/agbu.une.edu.au/~drobinso/velo1/velo.html
>>>> Do you have any reason to claim that ridership did not drop anywhere?
>
>> clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
>>> Drop in ridership among teenagers may have COINCIDED with helmet laws
>>> without being caused by them.
>>> Kids do not ride bikes for fun anymore. They do not ride bikes to
>>> school.
>>> Heck, they don't play outside any more in many large cities - even
>>> small cities and towns, because PLAYING is percieved as being unsafe.
>>> Being OUTSIDE is percieved as being unsafe.
>>> Kids get driven to school when they live less than 8 blocks from
>>> school. They "play" video games. Their exercise is all organized
>>> sports.
>>>
>>> At the elementary school a block from my home, where my now 25 and 26
>>> year old daughters went to school, there used to be 3 or 4 bike racks
>>> that would be FULL every spring and fall day. There are now twice as
>>> many students - with a whole field full of portable classrooms, and
>>> virtually no bicycles MHL was in effect when my kids went to school.
>>>
>>> Used to be a veritable troup of kids walking past the house to and
>>> from school. Now the street is packed with mini-vans and SUVs before
>>> and after school as concerned parents drop off and pick up their kids
>>> as close to the school as the law allows.
>>>
>>> At the highschool it's the same. Not too many bicycles, compared to
>>> years ago. More cars.
>>> And cars ARE more deadly to teanagers than bicycles.
>>> And those who DO ride bikes for fun and to school keep "junker bikes"
>>> to ride to school because good ones will be stolen or trashed when
>>> parked - by young thugs who have nothing better to do with their time.
>>> Even the junkers get the wheels bent and other parts torn off or
>>> trashed.
>>> ANd we live in a GOOD area.
>>> As a young guy I'd jump on my bike and with a bunch of friends ride
>>> off across town, or out of town a few miles to go hiking or fishing
>>> and think nothing of it. 50 mile trips (round trip)were fairly
>>> commonplace. We had no local transit, and most families only had one
>>> car so we walked or biked to school and back.
>>> I biked to and from work on the farm 6 miles out of town every weekend
>>> during the school year, and most weekends during the summer. Half the
>>> way was on a main highway - but the traffic was not nearly what it is
>>> today.
>
> Tom Sherman wrote:
>> Sometimes the older days really were better (in my case late 1970's to
>> early 1980's).
>
>> It is too bad that people have not shown more restraint in breeding.
>> The world would be a much better place with only 1 to 2 billion people.
>
> That's not what we have to work with. Any good ideas from here?
> (growing tomatoes in the Sahara by mulching large numbers of humans may
> not actually be a workable solution)
>
Darn!
> Back to topic, I delivered 25~35 bicycles on Christmas Eve and Christmas
> morning for many years but not a single one in this century. Kids don't
> ride now. My nieces attend a school district where bicycles are not
> allowed at school and that is no longer unusual.
Utterly ridiculous. I used to ride a bicycle [1] to school year around
in Wisconsin.
> Beyond, they aren't
> allowed to a park 2 blocks away without an adult. The goal of 'safety'
> is skewed to salacious and weird dangers which are in fact exceedingly
> rare and less common that ever in history. Bicycles are a mere symptom
> of larger social failings.
Will their parents go off to college with them, or accompany them to
their first job? Will they be able to feed themselves without assistance?
[1] Purchased from Andrew's shop, in fact.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful
