AtoB online

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For Helen, the current issue has an excellent article on playing the train
ticket optimisation game.

Tony, why would I want to play the game? There shouldn't be a game in the
first place and sadly, it appears to be a part of the problem in using rail.
A prospective rail user should not have to have a degree in playing the
system in order to have a reasonably priced, comfortable and *practical*
journey!

wafflycat wrote on 16/12/2006 09:10 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For Helen, the current issue has an excellent article on playing the
train ticket optimisation game.

Tony, why would I want to play the game? There shouldn't be a game in
the first place and sadly, it appears to be a part of the problem in
using rail. A prospective rail user should not have to have a degree in
playing the system in order to have a reasonably priced, comfortable and
*practical* journey!

Yes you shouldn't have to but that's how it is at present. And either
you can give up because its "too difficult" as is the case with most
motorists in respect of cycling & PT, or you can learn to play the game
and become part of the solution.

I would love to have the Swiss PT system operating over here but I
manage quite comfortably with what we have. This week I have gone from
Cambridge to Bath to Southampton to London to Southampton to London to
Cambridge all by train & Brompton (plus one bus in Bath). My worst
experience was arriving 5 mins late in Bath & Southampton and my best
travelling first class Cambridge to Bath for just £26.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes you shouldn't have to but that's how it is at present. And either you
can give up because its "too difficult" as is the case with most motorists
in respect of cycling & PT, or you can learn to play the game and become
part of the solution.

I am part of the solution already. I have gone from being a two-car family
to a one-car family. The family, self-included, cycle far more than most
people and we have significantly reduced our car mileage. So I am already
part of the solution. That is a big move in the right direction. By saying
that there are problems with train journeys that mean train is not first
choice for me does not mean I am anti-rail. It means nothing more than, for
me, sometimes for long journeys, especially east-west ones, car is
currently easier, cheaper and more practical than going by train. So no, I
don't want to 'play the game' as regards to trains that appears to be needed
for many a train journey.

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would love to have the Swiss PT system operating over here but I manage
quite comfortably with what we have. This week I have gone from Cambridge
to Bath to Southampton to London to Southampton to London to Cambridge all
by train & Brompton (plus one bus in Bath). My worst experience was
arriving 5 mins late in Bath & Southampton and my best travelling first
class Cambridge to Bath for just £26.

That's impressive. I can't seem to find any tickets from Horsham to
Manchester for less than £65 over Christmas (I managed to get them for £33
in October)

Adam

Adam Lea wrote on 16/12/2006 11:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would love to have the Swiss PT system operating over here but I manage
quite comfortably with what we have. This week I have gone from Cambridge
to Bath to Southampton to London to Southampton to London to Cambridge all
by train & Brompton (plus one bus in Bath). My worst experience was
arriving 5 mins late in Bath & Southampton and my best travelling first
class Cambridge to Bath for just £26.

That's impressive. I can't seem to find any tickets from Horsham to
Manchester for less than £65 over Christmas (I managed to get them for £33
in October)

Well it is Christmas and most travel and hotels are expensive over
Christmas. You could have got tickets from London to Manchester on
Virgin Value for £12.50 each way if you had booked in advance but its
too late now for Christmas. You could alternatively go to Southampton
for £17 return, get a Megatrain to Birmingham for between £9 and £15
return and two singles for the Birmingham Manchester leg for £17.50
making between £43.50 and £49.50 but it is a bit of a roundabout way.

However even at the offered £65.70 and 466 miles round trip on busy
Christmas motorways, your car would have to cost you less than 14p/mile
to make it cheaper by car.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I see from the latest paper copy that AtoB is now available to read online.
For those who have never seen a copy there is a sample version (actually
the last issue) available for free including their A-bike review.
http://www.exacteditions.com/exact/magazine/392/428

For Helen, the current issue has an excellent article on playing the train
ticket optimisation game.

The picture of Laila sat on the Bentley is very good.
Peter

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Adam Lea wrote on 16/12/2006 11:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I would love to have the Swiss PT system operating over here but I
manage quite comfortably with what we have. This week I have gone from
Cambridge to Bath to Southampton to London to Southampton to London to
Cambridge all by train & Brompton (plus one bus in Bath). My worst
experience was arriving 5 mins late in Bath & Southampton and my best
travelling first class Cambridge to Bath for just £26.

That's impressive. I can't seem to find any tickets from Horsham to
Manchester for less than £65 over Christmas (I managed to get them for
£33 in October)

Well it is Christmas and most travel and hotels are expensive over
Christmas. You could have got tickets from London to Manchester on Virgin
Value for £12.50 each way if you had booked in advance but its too late
now for Christmas. You could alternatively go to Southampton for £17
return, get a Megatrain to Birmingham for between £9 and £15 return and
two singles for the Birmingham Manchester leg for £17.50 making between
£43.50 and £49.50 but it is a bit of a roundabout way.

However even at the offered £65.70 and 466 miles round trip on busy
Christmas motorways, your car would have to cost you less than 14p/mile to
make it cheaper by car.

--

Ah, so the answer is to look at the individual train companies websites, not
the general ones (e.g. Network Rail).

Adam Lea wrote on 16/12/2006 16:39 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Adam Lea wrote on 16/12/2006 11:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> I would love to have the Swiss PT system operating over here but I
> manage quite comfortably with what we have. This week I have gone from
> Cambridge to Bath to Southampton to London to Southampton to London to
> Cambridge all by train & Brompton (plus one bus in Bath). My worst
> experience was arriving 5 mins late in Bath & Southampton and my best
> travelling first class Cambridge to Bath for just £26.
>
That's impressive. I can't seem to find any tickets from Horsham to
Manchester for less than £65 over Christmas (I managed to get them for
£33 in October)

Well it is Christmas and most travel and hotels are expensive over
Christmas. You could have got tickets from London to Manchester on Virgin
Value for £12.50 each way if you had booked in advance but its too late
now for Christmas. You could alternatively go to Southampton for £17
return, get a Megatrain to Birmingham for between £9 and £15 return and
two singles for the Birmingham Manchester leg for £17.50 making between
£43.50 and £49.50 but it is a bit of a roundabout way.

However even at the offered £65.70 and 466 miles round trip on busy
Christmas motorways, your car would have to cost you less than 14p/mile to
make it cheaper by car.

--

Ah, so the answer is to look at the individual train companies websites, not
the general ones (e.g. Network Rail).

Yep, just like using the individual LCN maps to cycle route plan in
London rather than the general AtoZ if you want to know the shortcuts
and cycle only routes. As I've said before, the more you use them the
more familiar you get with how to get the best from them.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Adam Lea said:

Ah, so the answer is to look at the individual train companies
websites, not the general ones (e.g. Network Rail).

Most cheap tickets will be available on www.qjump.co.uk, from most
station ticket offices and via telesales.

Apart from a small number of special offer fares (and that does _not_
include advance purchase tickets like Virgin Value), all retailers
have a duty to impartiality - they must offer whatever tickets may be
appropriate to your journey, even if they could make more money out of
you by hiding some of the options.

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

Peter said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I see from the latest paper copy that AtoB is now available to read online.
For those who have never seen a copy there is a sample version (actually
the last issue) available for free including their A-bike review.
http://www.exacteditions.com/exact/magazine/392/428

For Helen, the current issue has an excellent article on playing the train
ticket optimisation game.

The picture of Laila sat on the Bentley is very good.

But the review of the Birdy v Friday v Brom is poor. I would like to
think you could get all three bikes in a Bentley /at the same time/
with room to spare.The info on the Birdy is based on an old model
without stem adjustment the new frames came out in January and
adjustable stems could be had in some parts of the world. The non
basic Birdys always had the comfort stem as an alternative to the
standard one fitted on the review bike. My chain has only fallen off
once in over eighteen months of daily folds, the fact a third party
tyre blew off is not R&M's fault and as for the claim that only the
Brom is suitable for a 100 mile ride, well I'd beg to differ.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Stevie D wrote on 16/12/2006 17:24 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Adam Lea said:

Ah, so the answer is to look at the individual train companies
websites, not the general ones (e.g. Network Rail).

Most cheap tickets will be available on www.qjump.co.uk, from most
station ticket offices and via telesales.

Apart from a small number of special offer fares (and that does _not_
include advance purchase tickets like Virgin Value), all retailers
have a duty to impartiality - they must offer whatever tickets may be
appropriate to your journey, even if they could make more money out of
you by hiding some of the options.

I don't think they do either the Megatrain through those outlets. With
Megatrain you can do Exeter to London return for £2 if you chose your
days/trains

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Tony Raven said:

I don't think they do either the Megatrain through those outlets. With
Megatrain you can do Exeter to London return for £2 if you chose your
days/trains

Correct - MegaTrain is included in the "small number of special
offers" that I said can't be booked through normal sales outlets.

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

wafflycat' w*a*ff?y?cat*@?btco*nn?ect.com said:

Tony, why would I want to play the game? There shouldn't be a game in the
first place and sadly, it appears to be a part of the problem in using rail.

There shouldn't be the multiple games of 'which town has the cheapest
price today for identical fuel' or any of the 1001 other games which
make using a car so little fun, but I played them again today.

--
MJR

Daniel Barlow said:

MJ Ray said:

There shouldn't be the multiple games of 'which town has the cheapest
price today for identical fuel' or any of the 1001 other games which
make using a car so little fun, but I played them again today.

Forgive me if I've got the wrong end of the stick, but this reads a
little bit like a dig at Helen - it's something of a non sequitur,
otherwise, to start talking about the annoyances of private car use in
response to a comment about buying train tickets. [...]

Not a non-secateur: all transport modes involve some of these games.
We pick which ones to play for each trip. Posting atypical experiences
of a mode of transport as if they are undeniable inherent drawbacks is
a bit unbalanced, so let's put some more examples out there.

Not a dig at anyone in particular: I mostly avoid sending personal
messages to groups.

Hope that explains,
--
MJR/slef

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wafflycat' w*a*ff?y?cat*@?btco*nn?ect.com said:

Tony, why would I want to play the game?

Because it will save you time and money.

Den 2006-12-18 12:38:46 skrev Daniel Barlow <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

If the URC Approved Religion now requires that every suggestion that
some part of public transport is not perfect

That's not what it's about though. It's about flaunting your ignorance ("I
refuse to look at the fare structure"😉 and giving an obviously one-sided
view ("like it or not, cars are better"😉. It's not surprising that this
upsets people.

What I'm reading is train supporters saying "it's not perfect but it's
useful", while car apologists reply "trains have this flaw, and this flaw,
and this one too, so cars are better". Going on about how sad you are does
not make you any less one-sided. The only way to convince me that a
rational decision-making process is taking place, is for an anti-train
poster to come up with at least one journey where the train might be the
better alterntive, despite all the imperfections.

Finally, I hope I'm not the only one appalled by residents of the UK
believing that 200 km/h trains are somehow slower than 110 km/h cars. I've
never been a UK resident, but I know the London-York-Newcastle train
averages 150 km/h over 450km. It's just a matter of looking at a timetable.

This covers all trains in Europe
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de

This gives driving directions and distances all over Europe
http://mappy.co.uk

Erik Sandblom

--
Oil is for sissies

"Erik Sandblom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:op.tkteatuuzubk0m@toshiba...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff?y?cat*@?btco*nn?ect.com> wrote:
> Tony, why would I want to play the game?

Because it will save you time and money.

Den 2006-12-18 12:38:46 skrev Daniel Barlow <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

If the URC Approved Religion now requires that every suggestion that
some part of public transport is not perfect

That's not what it's about though. It's about flaunting your ignorance ("I
refuse to look at the fare structure"😉 and giving an obviously one-sided
view ("like it or not, cars are better"😉. It's not surprising that this
upsets people.

I certainly haven't said "like it or not, cars are better" - I've said that
sometimes, cars are more practical and as of late, car is turning out to be
more practical, comfortable and faster for many a long journey. Which is a
shame, really. Example - husband coming back from Birmingham today - by
rail. Total journey time on train four hours, and then another 40 mins by
car from station to home. And as the journey too Brum took even longer, it
was not practical or timely. The same journey entirely by car would have
taken about four hours. Sadly, on this occasion train was not faster, so it
certainly didn't save time. As I said before, shame really. Pity that you
can't acknowledge that *sometimes* going by car can be a better option for
someone.

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I certainly haven't said "like it or not, cars are better" - I've said
that sometimes, cars are more practical and as of late, car is turning out
to be more practical, comfortable and faster for many a long journey.
Which is a shame, really. Example - husband coming back from Birmingham
today - by rail. Total journey time on train four hours, and then another
40 mins by car from station to home. And as the journey too Brum took even
longer, it was not practical or timely. The same journey entirely by car
would have taken about ***four hours***. Sadly, on this occasion train was
not faster, so it certainly didn't save time. As I said before, shame
really. Pity that you can't acknowledge that *sometimes* going by car can
be a better option for someone.

*** error. Should have written three hours.

wafflycat wrote on 19/12/2006 16:49 +0100:

Quoted message said:

*** error. Should have written three hours.

Cambridge to Birmingham is 1.5hrs minimum if the roads are clear. I
would be surprised if you could do the 160 mile of Norwich to Birmingham
in three hours with substantial portions of main road before you get to
the A14.

--
Tony

"...has many omissions and contains much that is apocryphal, or at least
wildly inaccurate..."
Douglas Adams; The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

Erik Sandblom said:

Because it will save you time and money.

The time it takes to research fares isn't 'saved' though. Why do we need
such a complex and counter-intuitive fare system?

Quoted message said:

Finally, I hope I'm not the only one appalled by residents of the UK
believing that 200 km/h trains are somehow slower than 110 km/h cars. I've
never been a UK resident, but I know the London-York-Newcastle train
averages 150 km/h over 450km. It's just a matter of looking at a
timetable.

Now add in a 45 minute journey to the station, a hour wait in the middle to
change trains, and then a 45 minute journey to the final destination. And
yes, I used to regularly travel a journey by train with those timings. It
was over twice as fast by car.

Anthony