AtoB online

Den 2006-12-20 14:03:37 skrev Anthony Jones <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

No one here has claimed that a car is always faster,

Darn close though -- they only give examples of where the car is "better".
This is frequently down to not looking at the timetable or the fare
structure. Sometimes it's down to not taking the train partway, like
driving or cycling to a suitable mainline station.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plus I don't know what the rationale is behind
ignoring the facilities available on a train to read, write, sleep, etc.

*I* haven't ignored these facilities, nor have I seen anyone else here
ignore them.

We recently had the gentleman suggesting that time on the train can not be
useful, unless certain types of computer work needed to be done.

Quoted message said:

Have you ignored that a car passenger also has these
facilities available to them?

Partly. You shouldn't use the loo in car, even being the passenger.

The more you fill the car with people, the more it makes sense to use it.
And the fewer people in the car, the dumber it gets.

Quoted message said:

And as I said before, I travel more miles by PT than by car. I've never
personally owned a car. Up until a few months ago, my only means of
getting
access to a car was to hire one -- which is something I resorted to doing
on several occasions since it worked out *significantly* cheaper *and*
faster end to end. If you think I did that because I'm not familiar with
the pros and cons of PT, you're mistaken.

You might find it's a status thing.

I suspect that among those who have never owned cars, many overestimate
the time savings and general convenience. I know I did until I started
renting cars. My next project will be to try to start a carpool, so I
don't have to worry about parking. But I do worry that I and the other
members won't use it enough to justify the cost :-)

Erik Sandblom
--
Oil is for sissies

Den 2006-12-20 17:07:05 skrev Anthony Jones <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Erik Sandblom said:

So that's what I meant by 'TGV envy'.

If 'TGV envy' is believing that rail travel in the UK is often worse
than in the rest of Europe, then I'm guilty as charged.

Few trains are as frequent as English ones, and the speed is not bad
either.

Quoted message said:

This belief doesn't stop me using it though. My problem is that it seems
criticising PT here just leads to being shouted down with strawman
arguments ("but a train is faster for unrelated journey X", "the roads
have unpredictable delays too", etc).

I re-read your post where you say "it was twice as fast by car"; at first
I thought you meant London-Newcastle, but I now understand you meant some
other unspecified trip. Otherwise you would have been saying you drove on
average 300 km/h.

You're obviously right that trains are not always the fastest and/or
cheapest way. Unfortunately this means that you need to know something
about what the rail network looks like in order to take advantage of it.
It's my belief that many motorists try one train trip with poor
connections, and then assume that all trains suck. It's been shown that
those who haven't used public transport in years will overestimate the
journey times of public transport. [1]
http://www.teknik-og-kultur.dk/2anmeldelse.aspx?itemID=254

Swedish SJ commissioned a study last summer which showed cut-price
short-haul airline passengers on average overestimated the price of train
tickets, while train passengers accurately estimated the price of airfares.

Based on this, and on personal experience, my alarm bells ring as soon as
someone says "driving is faster", without giving examples. If it's
regarding a country with trains capable of at least 150 km/h or so, it's
likely this person doesn't know what s/he's talking about.

Not all the anti-train rants in this group are thoughtful. In the "cars
can be useful" thread, Matt B asserted that the 200 km/h capability of the
trains is ornamental. He weaseled out of ridicule by saying "for most
journeys", for some value of "most".
http://groups.google.com/group/uk.rec.cycling/msg/4e57deba8d8f631a

Erik Sandblom

[1] A neat factoid on this page: private cars spend most of their time
standing still, and when not standing still, frequently only a fifth or a
quarter of the seats are filled, and this gives a usage factor of 1%.

--
Oil is for sissies

Erik Sandblom said:

Den 2006-12-20 14:03:37 skrev Anthony Jones <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Have you ignored that a car passenger also has these
facilities available to them?

Partly. You shouldn't use the loo in car, even being the passenger.

<http://www.gloveboxloo.co.uk/html/in-car_loo.html>

--
Dave...