"Bay Area dreams that could be realized" (Humans Think They Own the Earth)



M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
Humans own the entire Earth, right? So what could possibly be wrong with
flooding yet more of our scanty remaining wildlife habitat with more humans?
What could be wrong is that we are 100% dependent on the existence of other
species. They clean our air, clean our water, "fix" nitrogen (make it available
to living things), and provide food, medicines, pleasure, and countless other
free services. That implies that we must allow them to have a place to live,
where they can survive in perpetuity -- habitat that is acceptable to THEM. That
is habitat that is off-limits to humans. Most species don't like having us
around, and, considering our track record, WITH GOOD REASON! We have plenty of
places to experience the pleasures of being in nature, without opening up our
protected watersheds to more human access.

Mike Vandeman, Ph.D.


Bay Area dreams that could be realized

Tom Stienstra

Sunday, October 2, 2005

One of my ultimate outdoor fantasies -- one that is now illegal -- is to plunk
my old green canoe into Crystal Springs Reservoir on the Peninsula, paddle to a
hidden cove and then, as the orange glow of dawn arrives, cast with my fly rod
for giant rainbow trout, catch-and-release.

Another fantasy is to hike from Sweeney Ridge near San Bruno to Montara State
Beach, in the process climbing the remote wilderness of the east flank of
Montara Mountain. That's against the law, too.

These and dozens of other adventures are illegal in the Bay Area because the
public is barred from many publicly owned lakes and lands by water departments
and park districts. In the Bay Area, 35 lakes are off-limits to all boating,
even canoeing. All access, even hiking, is prohibited at 14 lakes.

The only chance for this to change is AB-672, now sitting on Gov.
Schwarzenegger's desk, with an Oct. 9 deadline for his signature. Johan Klehs,
D-San Leandro, who is an avid canoeist, authored this landmark proposal: Local
agencies would be required to create access plans, with public input, for
hand-powered boating, trail access and limited fishing.

Though the bill was weakened at hearings -- it might allow water agencies to
stretch out the "planning process" for years -- this remains the public's best
bet for access to long-forbidden waters and lands.

The beef is simple: For the past 100 years, a handful of watershed employees,
rangers and politicians have used these jewels as their personal reserves to
boat, fish, hike and, in some cases, live. All I've asked for is the same
opportunities. Nobody wants to see any of these gems blemished in any way, and
most visitors would accept quota systems with lotteries and catch-and-release
fishing to eliminate any chance of impact.

That given, here are my top 10 Bay Area fantasy picks:

1. On Golden Pond: Can you imagine a lakeside cabin set in a remote canyon amid
redwoods, with your own dock and boat? This is not a fantasy, but everyday life
at Pilarcitos Lake, the hidden lake in the Peninsula's Crystal Springs
Watershed. Wouldn't you love to rent the cabin, and then, after a barbecue at
the picnic grounds in a redwood grove, head out on the lake and cast for trout
that average 16 to 22 inches?

2. Crystal Springs: Like just about everybody, I've been staring at Crystal
Springs from Interstate 280 for most of my life. I dream of the day when I can
legally paddle my canoe to this certain cove on the west side of the lake with a
creek inlet, where the trout mass on summer evenings and feed on the surface.
The swirls are the size of washtubs.

3. Skyline-to-sea: By simply unlocking two service road gates on watershed
lands, the route from Sweeney Ridge to Montara State Beach would open, creating
one of the most spectacular one-way hikes anywhere. From Sweeney Ridge (great
views of South Bay), the route would drop into Pilarcitos Canyon and, from
there, rise up the stunning wilderness of the east flank of Montara Mountain, go
over the top (180-degree ocean view) and down to the beach.

4. Elk and trout: Most people have no idea that San Antonio Reservoir is located
just over the hill from I-680, southeast of Sunol. An elk herd, golden eagles
and peregrine falcons roam the wildlands on the far side of the lake, and the
rainbow trout in the lake could create a lottery-drawn fishery with quality
similar to that in Canada.

5. Redwoods and rainbows: In the remote Oakland hills, a deer trail from Redwood
Regional Park is routed down a canyon through redwoods to the headwaters of
Upper San Leandro Reservoir. From here, you could hike along the lake's coves,
amid woods and waters. Bring your rod to cast for some of the brightest-colored
rainbow trout in Northern California.

6. Carson Creek surprise: This trip starts with a short canoe portage to the
access adjacent to Kent Dam in Marin. You then would paddle up Kent Lake to the
hidden Carson Creek inlet on the left side. Fishing? On a calm summer evening,
you could catch bass like crazy.

7. Lake Curry's mystery: I've flown over Lake Curry, the horseshoe-shaped
reservoir tucked in the hills of Napa County, about 500 times, and I've been
there once. It's loaded with bass. This would be an ideal spot for a float tube,
pram or canoe.

8. Hidden over the hill: It's hard to believe that Stanford has kept Felt Lake a
secret. It is literally just over the hill, with I-280 on one side and
Arastradero Road on the other. This is a beautiful setting for horseback riding
and hiking. Big bass hide in heavy weed beds.

9. Briones paddle: The waters are the deepest blue here of any lake in the Bay
Area. You can already hike and bike here, and Briones Regional Preserve is No. 1
for many from nearby Walnut Creek. Add in a paddle trip, fishing for trout and
bass, and you've got a crown jewel.

10. Summer nights: The warm climate in Sonoma County makes me dream of what
could be at Laguna Lake ... an evening picnic, followed by a float, casting to
the bass surface rise at dusk, taking in the surrounding hillside beauty and
sunsets.

The best hikes to waterfalls in the Bay Area and beyond is featured on "Great
Outdoors With Tom Stienstra," airing at 6:30 p.m. today on Channel 44, Bay Area
cable channel 12.

Don't go jump in a lake

Bay Area lakes' restrictions, county-by-county:

-- Alameda County: Public banned at Upper San Leandro Reservoir and San Antonio
Reservoir; no boating at Cull Canyon, Don Castro or Shinn Pond.

-- Contra Costa County: No boating at Briones Reservoir, Lake Anza or Lake
Temescal.

-- Marin County: No boating at Alpine, Bon Tempe, Lagunitas, Kent, Phoenix,
Nicasio, Stafford or Soulejule.

-- Napa County: Public banned at Lake Curry, Milliken and Rector Res.

-- San Francisco: No boating at Merced Impoundment.

-- Santa Clara County: Public banned at Calaveras Reservoir, Lake Elsman and
Felt Lake; Palo Alto residents only at Boronda Lake; no boating at Arastradero,
Sandy Wool, Cunningham, Cottonwood or Almaden.

-- San Mateo County: Public banned at Upper Crystal Springs, Lower Crystal
Springs, San Andreas Lake and Pilarcitos Lake.

-- Solano County: Public banned at Lake Madigan.

-- Sonoma County: Public banned at Laguna Lake.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
G

GaryG

Guest
Thanks for the heads-up Mikey.

For anyone interested, I urge you to send the Governor an email urging
suppport for his signature on AB-672. You can email him from this web page:

http://www.govmail.ca.gov/

GG

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Humans own the entire Earth, right? So what could possibly be wrong with
> flooding yet more of our scanty remaining wildlife habitat with more

humans?
> What could be wrong is that we are 100% dependent on the existence of

other
> species. They clean our air, clean our water, "fix" nitrogen (make it

available
> to living things), and provide food, medicines, pleasure, and countless

other
> free services. That implies that we must allow them to have a place to

live,
> where they can survive in perpetuity -- habitat that is acceptable to

THEM. That
> is habitat that is off-limits to humans. Most species don't like having us
> around, and, considering our track record, WITH GOOD REASON! We have

plenty of
> places to experience the pleasures of being in nature, without opening up

our
> protected watersheds to more human access.
>
> Mike Vandeman, Ph.D.
>
>
> Bay Area dreams that could be realized
>
> Tom Stienstra
>
> Sunday, October 2, 2005
>
> One of my ultimate outdoor fantasies -- one that is now illegal -- is to

plunk
> my old green canoe into Crystal Springs Reservoir on the Peninsula, paddle

to a
> hidden cove and then, as the orange glow of dawn arrives, cast with my fly

rod
> for giant rainbow trout, catch-and-release.
>
> Another fantasy is to hike from Sweeney Ridge near San Bruno to Montara

State
> Beach, in the process climbing the remote wilderness of the east flank of
> Montara Mountain. That's against the law, too.
>
> These and dozens of other adventures are illegal in the Bay Area because

the
> public is barred from many publicly owned lakes and lands by water

departments
> and park districts. In the Bay Area, 35 lakes are off-limits to all

boating,
> even canoeing. All access, even hiking, is prohibited at 14 lakes.
>
> The only chance for this to change is AB-672, now sitting on Gov.
> Schwarzenegger's desk, with an Oct. 9 deadline for his signature. Johan

Klehs,
> D-San Leandro, who is an avid canoeist, authored this landmark proposal:

Local
> agencies would be required to create access plans, with public input, for
> hand-powered boating, trail access and limited fishing.
>
> Though the bill was weakened at hearings -- it might allow water agencies

to
> stretch out the "planning process" for years -- this remains the public's

best
> bet for access to long-forbidden waters and lands.
>
> The beef is simple: For the past 100 years, a handful of watershed

employees,
> rangers and politicians have used these jewels as their personal reserves

to
> boat, fish, hike and, in some cases, live. All I've asked for is the same
> opportunities. Nobody wants to see any of these gems blemished in any way,

and
> most visitors would accept quota systems with lotteries and

catch-and-release
> fishing to eliminate any chance of impact.
>
> That given, here are my top 10 Bay Area fantasy picks:
>
> 1. On Golden Pond: Can you imagine a lakeside cabin set in a remote canyon

amid
> redwoods, with your own dock and boat? This is not a fantasy, but everyday

life
> at Pilarcitos Lake, the hidden lake in the Peninsula's Crystal Springs
> Watershed. Wouldn't you love to rent the cabin, and then, after a barbecue

at
> the picnic grounds in a redwood grove, head out on the lake and cast for

trout
> that average 16 to 22 inches?
>
> 2. Crystal Springs: Like just about everybody, I've been staring at

Crystal
> Springs from Interstate 280 for most of my life. I dream of the day when I

can
> legally paddle my canoe to this certain cove on the west side of the lake

with a
> creek inlet, where the trout mass on summer evenings and feed on the

surface.
> The swirls are the size of washtubs.
>
> 3. Skyline-to-sea: By simply unlocking two service road gates on watershed
> lands, the route from Sweeney Ridge to Montara State Beach would open,

creating
> one of the most spectacular one-way hikes anywhere. From Sweeney Ridge

(great
> views of South Bay), the route would drop into Pilarcitos Canyon and, from
> there, rise up the stunning wilderness of the east flank of Montara

Mountain, go
> over the top (180-degree ocean view) and down to the beach.
>
> 4. Elk and trout: Most people have no idea that San Antonio Reservoir is

located
> just over the hill from I-680, southeast of Sunol. An elk herd, golden

eagles
> and peregrine falcons roam the wildlands on the far side of the lake, and

the
> rainbow trout in the lake could create a lottery-drawn fishery with

quality
> similar to that in Canada.
>
> 5. Redwoods and rainbows: In the remote Oakland hills, a deer trail from

Redwood
> Regional Park is routed down a canyon through redwoods to the headwaters

of
> Upper San Leandro Reservoir. From here, you could hike along the lake's

coves,
> amid woods and waters. Bring your rod to cast for some of the

brightest-colored
> rainbow trout in Northern California.
>
> 6. Carson Creek surprise: This trip starts with a short canoe portage to

the
> access adjacent to Kent Dam in Marin. You then would paddle up Kent Lake

to the
> hidden Carson Creek inlet on the left side. Fishing? On a calm summer

evening,
> you could catch bass like crazy.
>
> 7. Lake Curry's mystery: I've flown over Lake Curry, the horseshoe-shaped
> reservoir tucked in the hills of Napa County, about 500 times, and I've

been
> there once. It's loaded with bass. This would be an ideal spot for a float

tube,
> pram or canoe.
>
> 8. Hidden over the hill: It's hard to believe that Stanford has kept Felt

Lake a
> secret. It is literally just over the hill, with I-280 on one side and
> Arastradero Road on the other. This is a beautiful setting for horseback

riding
> and hiking. Big bass hide in heavy weed beds.
>
> 9. Briones paddle: The waters are the deepest blue here of any lake in the

Bay
> Area. You can already hike and bike here, and Briones Regional Preserve is

No. 1
> for many from nearby Walnut Creek. Add in a paddle trip, fishing for trout

and
> bass, and you've got a crown jewel.
>
> 10. Summer nights: The warm climate in Sonoma County makes me dream of

what
> could be at Laguna Lake ... an evening picnic, followed by a float,

casting to
> the bass surface rise at dusk, taking in the surrounding hillside beauty

and
> sunsets.
>
> The best hikes to waterfalls in the Bay Area and beyond is featured on

"Great
> Outdoors With Tom Stienstra," airing at 6:30 p.m. today on Channel 44, Bay

Area
> cable channel 12.
>
> Don't go jump in a lake
>
> Bay Area lakes' restrictions, county-by-county:
>
> -- Alameda County: Public banned at Upper San Leandro Reservoir and San

Antonio
> Reservoir; no boating at Cull Canyon, Don Castro or Shinn Pond.
>
> -- Contra Costa County: No boating at Briones Reservoir, Lake Anza or Lake
> Temescal.
>
> -- Marin County: No boating at Alpine, Bon Tempe, Lagunitas, Kent,

Phoenix,
> Nicasio, Stafford or Soulejule.
>
> -- Napa County: Public banned at Lake Curry, Milliken and Rector Res.
>
> -- San Francisco: No boating at Merced Impoundment.
>
> -- Santa Clara County: Public banned at Calaveras Reservoir, Lake Elsman

and
> Felt Lake; Palo Alto residents only at Boronda Lake; no boating at

Arastradero,
> Sandy Wool, Cunningham, Cottonwood or Almaden.
>
> -- San Mateo County: Public banned at Upper Crystal Springs, Lower Crystal
> Springs, San Andreas Lake and Pilarcitos Lake.
>
> -- Solano County: Public banned at Lake Madigan.
>
> -- Sonoma County: Public banned at Laguna Lake.
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
J

Jeff Strickland

Guest
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Humans own the entire Earth, right?



Right. You're finally starting to get it.

Humans might not be very good stewards of the natural resources they have,
but that argument is different than ownership.

PS
I'm certain that you are even beginning to "get it."
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
I dreamed Mike Vandeman stopped spouting his bigoted ********. Any
chance that might be realised some time?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
X

x1134x

Guest
Mike, you're right, we really NEED the Dodo Bird, the Dusky Seaside
Sparrow, the Cuban Red Macaw, and the Pink-headed Duck around to "clean
our air, clean our water, . . .BLAH BLAH BLAH" Ever since they went
extinct we are in some HUGE trouble whatever will we do?

Things you will NEVER hear from Mikey V because his Ph D is really a
"post hole diggers degree" but are true facts none the less: (and no I
don't have a degree in evolutionary biology, but my wife does - from U
of A) {:)

Life exists of two things that cannot be separated: Living things and
their environment. These are not two separate *things* they are like
two sides of a coin. Your body is not separate from the environment
your body *IS* the environment organized in a specialized fashion. The
portion of the environment that is the "living" tissue is classified as
biota, and the "dead" part of the environment that supports it e.g.
oxygen in the atmosphere is classified as the abiota. Life consists of
BOTH systems and one cannot be studied, or classified without the
other.

Extinction is a natural feature of evolution because for some species
to succeed, others must fail. Since life began, about 99 percent of the
earth's species have disappeared and, on at least five occasions, huge
numbers have died out in a relatively short time. The most recent of
these mass extinctions, about 65 million years ago, swept away the
dinosaurs and many other forms of life. However, despite such
catastrophes, the total number of living species has followed a
generally upward trend. Some species extinction came not from a bad
condition in the envrionment (abiota) but from the loss of a critical
symbiote.

Humans are ANIMALS, they are not a separate class of beings. They are
of the Kingdom: Animalia, Phylum: Chordata Class: Mammalia, Order:
Primates, Family: Hominidae, Genus: ****, Species: Sapiens. We're not
aliens from another planet or galaxy, we fit right in with the natural
evolution of this planet.

Evolution mostly works slowly over many thousands of years, but
sometimes it leaps forward in very fascinating ways. We humans are one
of those fascinating leaps forward.

The first KNOWN fascinating leap forward was the socialization of
single-cell organisms. It is theorized that a fractal leap was
neseccary to even form celled organisms, so i've put the first KNOWN
leap. These leaps usually happen between mutually beneficial symbiotic
relationships. This is contrary to darwin's theory of "survival of the
fittest" or "evolution through competition" it is "survival of the best
working together" or "evolution through cooperation" You're single
cells in your body have decided millions of years ago that it was more
beneficial for them to work together. Since that time many SYMBIOTE
CIRCLES have appeared on earth. These circles are not all
encompassing, i.e. dodo birds are not within the symbiotic circle of
humans. Each species has its own unique symbiote circle. There is no
"circle of life" that exists in a delicate balance, there are only
smaller symbiote circles. They are not necessary for human life to
exist. Some of the species that ARE within our symbiote circle would
be: grass, corn, lettuce, cattle (convert grass to protein), etc I
think you get the idea.

Humans are a fascinating leap forward because of our power to increase
or decrease ours or other's symbiote circles. For example: if orchids
were to become extinct, this would not cause humans to become extinct.
but since orchids provide us with something beneficial (beauty) we
provide them with something beneficial: continued existence and
world-wide distribution. The same could be said of the cocoa plant,
marijuana plant, and poppies.

Humans are also a fascinating leap forward because for the first time
in many millenia, the living material (biota) is again jumping to
another fractal. The human being is becoming socialized into basically
a "human cell" and humans are growing the earth into a greater
organism. Each "human cell" specializes in function to help the
greater whole. Just as humans have red blood cells to deliver oxygen
and nutrients to parts of our body through our vascular system, we have
specialized truck drivers that deliver "nutrients" througout the human
organism using the highway system which is the human organisms vascular
system. Just as humans have nerve cells and a nervous system to
transfer commands and information throughout the body at the micro
level, we've built telegraph, telephone then internet systems to
perform that function at the macro human organism level.

This is what Mikey V will never understand. He thinks humans are some
separate entity just because of their abilities. Evolution gave humans
the abilities to affect quick change because slow change in the past
has not worked, and millions of species of biota have been wiped out
due to their inability to cope with rapid change in the abiota.
Evolution has figured out that biota that can affect rapid change is
better suited to an environment where the aboita can rapidly change.

Another thing that Mikey V doesn't get is Fractal geometry. This
governs how things grow and evolve. Human behavior is no different
than cellular behavior. We behave as cells because that is what we
ARE. We behave on the macro level the same as our cells behave on the
micro level.

so again Mikey, STFU! You are an imbecile.

x1134x
 
T

tillio

Guest
> Mike Vandeman wrote:
> > On 1 Oct 2005 11:19:04 -0700, "tillio" <[email protected]> wrote:



> > .> .LIAR! Cities are growing larger everyday and that growth requires more
> > .> .habitat to be destroyed. Why aren't you speaking out against this
> > .> .uncontrolled growth?
> > .>
> > .> I do. See my web page.
> > .
> > .More lies and double talk. I'll stick with facts, not fiction.
> >
> > Read your last sentence. I was merely answering your own question. DUH!

>

Heads up moron, I was commenting on your website, not your answer to
the question. Your website is a work of FICTION, written by an
ego-maniac. Nothing there is based on science, just your distorted
perception of reality.

You cannot understand a simple Usenet post let alone basic biology.
 
X

x1134x

Guest
Hey Mikey! Another question. When I go out to one of the "off limits
to humans" areas with my spray can of DDT, and a couple cartons of 90
weight, who is going to be out there to arrest me? Isn't it off limits
to ALL humans, so that would include enforcement officers as well?

So now you're locked into a catch 22. set aside land that's off limits
to humans because we scare the animals, but won't the enforcement
prescence / flyovers be disturbing and totally waste what you were
trying to create anyway? OR without the disturbance of enforcement
boots/tires on the ground or flyovers, how do you know that I haven't
made it my personal toxic waste dump?

LOL you are trying to achieve a pipe dream
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:49:09 -0700, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]
..> Humans own the entire Earth, right?
..
..
..Right. You're finally starting to get it.

How did we acquire title. This should be good.

..Humans might not be very good stewards of the natural resources they have,
..but that argument is different than ownership.
..
..PS
..I'm certain that you are even beginning to "get it."
..
..
..
..
..
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 23:02:44 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]>
wrote:

..I dreamed Mike Vandeman stopped spouting his bigoted ********. Any
..chance that might be realised some time?

It's aready happened. I stopped before I was born.

..Guy

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On 3 Oct 2005 17:06:24 -0700, "x1134x" <[email protected]> wrote:

..Mike, you're right, we really NEED the Dodo Bird,

Those who ate it certainly did. Otherwise, they wouldn't have wiped them out.

the Dusky Seaside
..Sparrow, the Cuban Red Macaw, and the Pink-headed Duck around to "clean
..our air, clean our water, . . .BLAH BLAH BLAH" Ever since they went
..extinct we are in some HUGE trouble whatever will we do?
..
..Things you will NEVER hear from Mikey V because his Ph D is really a
.."post hole diggers degree" but are true facts none the less: (and no I
..don't have a degree in evolutionary biology, but my wife does - from U
..of A) {:)
..
..Life exists of two things that cannot be separated: Living things and
..their environment. These are not two separate *things* they are like
..two sides of a coin. Your body is not separate from the environment
..your body *IS* the environment organized in a specialized fashion. The
..portion of the environment that is the "living" tissue is classified as
..biota, and the "dead" part of the environment that supports it e.g.
..oxygen in the atmosphere is classified as the abiota. Life consists of
..BOTH systems and one cannot be studied, or classified without the
..other.
..
..Extinction is a natural feature of evolution because for some species
..to succeed, others must fail. Since life began, about 99 percent of the
..earth's species have disappeared and, on at least five occasions, huge
..numbers have died out in a relatively short time. The most recent of
..these mass extinctions, about 65 million years ago, swept away the
..dinosaurs and many other forms of life. However, despite such
..catastrophes, the total number of living species has followed a
..generally upward trend. Some species extinction came not from a bad
..condition in the envrionment (abiota) but from the loss of a critical
..symbiote.
..
..Humans are ANIMALS, they are not a separate class of beings. They are
..of the Kingdom: Animalia, Phylum: Chordata Class: Mammalia, Order:
..Primates, Family: Hominidae, Genus: ****, Species: Sapiens. We're not
..aliens from another planet or galaxy, we fit right in with the natural
..evolution of this planet.
..
..Evolution mostly works slowly over many thousands of years, but
..sometimes it leaps forward in very fascinating ways. We humans are one
..of those fascinating leaps forward.
..
..The first KNOWN fascinating leap forward was the socialization of
..single-cell organisms. It is theorized that a fractal leap was
..neseccary to even form celled organisms, so i've put the first KNOWN
..leap. These leaps usually happen between mutually beneficial symbiotic
..relationships. This is contrary to darwin's theory of "survival of the
..fittest" or "evolution through competition" it is "survival of the best
..working together" or "evolution through cooperation" You're single
..cells in your body have decided millions of years ago that it was more
..beneficial for them to work together. Since that time many SYMBIOTE
..CIRCLES have appeared on earth. These circles are not all
..encompassing, i.e. dodo birds are not within the symbiotic circle of
..humans.

BS. If there weren't, we wouldn't have wiped them out.

Each species has its own unique symbiote circle. There is no
.."circle of life" that exists in a delicate balance, there are only
..smaller symbiote circles. They are not necessary for human life to
..exist. Some of the species that ARE within our symbiote circle would
..be: grass, corn, lettuce, cattle (convert grass to protein), etc I
..think you get the idea.
..
..Humans are a fascinating leap forward because of our power to increase
..or decrease ours or other's symbiote circles. For example: if orchids
..were to become extinct, this would not cause humans to become extinct.
..but since orchids provide us with something beneficial (beauty) we
..provide them with something beneficial: continued existence and
..world-wide distribution. The same could be said of the cocoa plant,
..marijuana plant, and poppies.
..
..Humans are also a fascinating leap forward because for the first time
..in many millenia, the living material (biota) is again jumping to
..another fractal. The human being is becoming socialized into basically
..a "human cell" and humans are growing the earth into a greater
..organism. Each "human cell" specializes in function to help the
..greater whole. Just as humans have red blood cells to deliver oxygen
..and nutrients to parts of our body through our vascular system, we have
..specialized truck drivers that deliver "nutrients" througout the human
..organism using the highway system which is the human organisms vascular
..system. Just as humans have nerve cells and a nervous system to
..transfer commands and information throughout the body at the micro
..level, we've built telegraph, telephone then internet systems to
..perform that function at the macro human organism level.
..
..This is what Mikey V will never understand. He thinks humans are some
..separate entity just because of their abilities.

No, we are separate because of (1) our behavior, by which we hold nature at
arm's length (e.g. I doubt that your body will re-enter the ecosystem like that
of wild animals -- you will either be buried or cremated) and (2) other species
don't like having us around, giving us the obligation (if we are ethical) to
protect them by giving them human-free habitat.

Evolution gave humans
..the abilities to affect quick change because slow change in the past
..has not worked, and millions of species of biota have been wiped out
..due to their inability to cope with rapid change in the abiota.
..Evolution has figured out that biota that can affect rapid change is
..better suited to an environment where the aboita can rapidly change.
..
..Another thing that Mikey V doesn't get is Fractal geometry. This
..governs how things grow and evolve. Human behavior is no different
..than cellular behavior. We behave as cells because that is what we
..ARE. We behave on the macro level the same as our cells behave on the
..micro level.

Oh, so as individuals we obey orders from a central nervous/endocrine system?
BS.

..so again Mikey, STFU! You are an imbecile.
..
..x1134x

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On 3 Oct 2005 17:22:47 -0700, "x1134x" <[email protected]> wrote:

..Hey Mikey! Another question. When I go out to one of the "off limits
..to humans" areas with my spray can of DDT, and a couple cartons of 90
..weight, who is going to be out there to arrest me? Isn't it off limits
..to ALL humans, so that would include enforcement officers as well?
..
..So now you're locked into a catch 22. set aside land that's off limits
..to humans because we scare the animals, but won't the enforcement
..prescence / flyovers be disturbing and totally waste what you were
..trying to create anyway? OR without the disturbance of enforcement
..boots/tires on the ground or flyovers, how do you know that I haven't
..made it my personal toxic waste dump?
..
..LOL you are trying to achieve a pipe dream

WHAT enforcement? You will always be free to be as big an asshole as you already
are, of course -- subject to the laws of nature, such as the extinction of
stupid species like you.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
W

Westie

Guest
Mike Vandeman wrote:
> Most species don't like having us around


And likewise; we don't like having them around. Natural selection. We,
like them, are just one of the many species inhabiting the planet. The
difference is that some of us will try to save some of them. As yet, I
haven't seen ANY mountain lions trying to save ANY humans and you can be
sure of one thing - if the mountain lions outnumbered us, they'd be
eating us into extinction without a second thought.
--
Westie
 
S

Sohn

Guest
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Humans own the entire Earth, right? So what could possibly be wrong with
> flooding yet more of our scanty remaining wildlife habitat with more
> humans?
> What could be wrong is that we are 100% dependent on the existence of
> other
> species. They clean our air, clean our water, "fix" nitrogen (make it
> available
> to living things), and provide food, medicines, pleasure, and countless
> other
> free services.

<demented ramblings snipped>
> Mike Vandeman, Ph.D.
>
>
> Bay Area dreams that could be realized
>
> Tom Stienstra
>
> Sunday, October 2, 2005
>
> One of my ultimate outdoor fantasies -- one that is now illegal -- is to
> plunk
> my old green canoe into Crystal Springs Reservoir on the Peninsula, paddle
> to a
> hidden cove and then, as the orange glow of dawn arrives, cast with my fly
> rod
> for giant rainbow trout, catch-and-release.


<snip>

The writer is a CATCH-and-RELEASE fly fisher. Do some research about Trout
Unlimited and their catch-and-release viewpoint. You will discover is that
TU is very involved in stream restorations projects.
 
X

x1134x

Guest
>BS. If there weren't, we wouldn't have wiped them out.

Sounds like I need to FURTHER explain the definition of symbiote circle
so that Mikey knows the difference between it and a *CIRCLE OF
INFLUENCE* Just because you killed off a species doesn't put it in
your symbiote circle. Symbiotes are organisms that another speicies
absolutely needs in the environment to survive.

We are surviving quite well w/out the dodo bird thus, NOT in our
symbiote circle.

>No, we are separate because of (1) our behavior, by which we hold nature at
>arm's length (e.g. I doubt that your body will re-enter the ecosystem like that
>of wild animals -- you will either be buried or cremated) and (2) other species
>don't like having us around, giving us the obligation (if we are ethical) to
>protect them by giving them human-free habitat.


our behaivior? so other animals don't eat other animals? other animals
don't excrete waste? and as for your example MANY animals are cremated
naturally by wildfires, and many of the bodies of those killed by the
Tsunami's recently will re-enter the ecosystem the same as any other
dead mammal.

And as for point 2, other species don't like having us around. . . my
dog (Animalia Chordata Mammalia Carnivora Canidae Canis domesticus)
LOVES having me around. If I weren;t there for it, it would die. Since
I am here for it, its survival is increased, its stresses are decreased
and in the 10,000 years of domestication it has gained INCREDIBLE
intelligence that w/out the human interference it probably would not
have. This is natural evolution at work. give the domesticated dog
another 100,000 years, and it will speak english. How? through
evolution and cooperation with its symbiotes the **** sapiens.

>Oh, so as individuals we obey orders from a central nervous/endocrine system?
>BS.


your LOGIC circuit is obviously busted, i'm beginning to think your
left brain has been completely lobotomized. You only think using
emotion. How could you infer CELLS obey orders from a central
nervous/endocrine system?

Tell one of your skin cells on your index finger's knuckle to kill
itself. It won't no matter how hard you concentrate on it. Think
about having your heart stop pumping, unfortunately for the rest of the
world Mikey, you can't make it do that. But think about typing
blithering retardation on the usenet with your fingers and watch them
go!

NO Mikey, individual human cells do not obey orders from a central
nervous/endocrine system, but collections of human cells in certain
ORGANIZATIONS (organs) do very much obey orders. President Bush picks
up a telephone, and the armed force ORGANIZATION blows up Baghdad.
Both biota, (soldiers) and abiota (Aircrafts, tanks, etc) follow the
orders.

>WHAT enforcement? You will always be free to be as big an asshole as you already
>are,


so give up then. You cannot create your:

>wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat")


Because way more human cells want to utilize the natural resources
available to them to better their survival. Same behaivior as cells in
a petri dish. They don't Create national petri parks where they don't
go and use the natural resources.

These roads you are trying to stop from being build really are the
vascular system of the human organism. So basically you are like one
cell in your body that wants to remove your own veins and arteries.

x1134x
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
I submit that on or about Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:28:36 GMT, the person
known to the court as Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> made a
statement (<[email protected]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

>.I dreamed Mike Vandeman stopped spouting his bigoted ********. Any
>.chance that might be realised some time?


>It's aready happened. I stopped before I was born.


Ah, so you have been "born again" and as part of your conversion
progress have vowed to stop your spamming ways. Good news. It'll be
much quieter but much better round here without your bigoted ********.
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
I submit that on or about Tue, 04 Oct 2005 01:41:06 GMT, the person
known to the court as Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> made a
statement (<[email protected]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

>WHAT enforcement? You will always be free to be as big an asshole as you already
>are, of course -- subject to the laws of nature, such as the extinction of
>stupid species like you.


Your evasion of the question is duly noted.
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
J

Jason

Guest
Mike Vandeman wrote:
> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:28:22 -0300, Jason <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .* Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>:
> .
> .
> .Thats [email protected] folks know it, use it, love it.
>
> Very funny. And what is the alleged "abuse"?


Just your standard offtopic to multiple groups designed to disrupt the
posted to. Actually mike that's all you really do but not the point.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On 4 Oct 2005 01:36:30 -0700, "x1134x" <[email protected]> wrote:

..>BS. If there weren't, we wouldn't have wiped them out.
..
..Sounds like I need to FURTHER explain the definition of symbiote circle
..so that Mikey knows the difference between it and a *CIRCLE OF
..INFLUENCE* Just because you killed off a species doesn't put it in
..your symbiote circle. Symbiotes are organisms that another speicies
..absolutely needs in the environment to survive.
..
..We are surviving quite well w/out the dodo bird thus, NOT in our
..symbiote circle.

I was referring to the people that lived with it, idiot.

..>No, we are separate because of (1) our behavior, by which we hold nature at
..>arm's length (e.g. I doubt that your body will re-enter the ecosystem like that
..>of wild animals -- you will either be buried or cremated) and (2) other species
..>don't like having us around, giving us the obligation (if we are ethical) to
..>protect them by giving them human-free habitat.
..
..our behaivior? so other animals don't eat other animals? other animals
..don't excrete waste? and as for your example MANY animals are cremated
..naturally by wildfires, and many of the bodies of those killed by the
..Tsunami's recently will re-enter the ecosystem the same as any other
..dead mammal.

YOU won't, liar.

..And as for point 2, other species don't like having us around. . . my
..dog (Animalia Chordata Mammalia Carnivora Canidae Canis domesticus)
..LOVES having me around.

Most species don't.

If I weren;t there for it, it would die. Since
..I am here for it, its survival is increased, its stresses are decreased
..and in the 10,000 years of domestication it has gained INCREDIBLE
..intelligence that w/out the human interference it probably would not
..have. This is natural evolution at work. give the domesticated dog
..another 100,000 years, and it will speak english. How? through
..evolution and cooperation with its symbiotes the **** sapiens.
..
..>Oh, so as individuals we obey orders from a central nervous/endocrine system?
..>BS.
..
..your LOGIC circuit is obviously busted, i'm beginning to think your
..left brain has been completely lobotomized. You only think using
..emotion. How could you infer CELLS obey orders from a central
..nervous/endocrine system?
..
..Tell one of your skin cells on your index finger's knuckle to kill
..itself. It won't no matter how hard you concentrate on it. Think
..about having your heart stop pumping, unfortunately for the rest of the
..world Mikey, you can't make it do that. But think about typing
..blithering retardation on the usenet with your fingers and watch them
..go!
..
..NO Mikey, individual human cells do not obey orders from a central
..nervous/endocrine system, but collections of human cells in certain
..ORGANIZATIONS (organs) do very much obey orders. President Bush picks
..up a telephone, and the armed force ORGANIZATION blows up Baghdad.
..Both biota, (soldiers) and abiota (Aircrafts, tanks, etc) follow the
..orders.
..
..>WHAT enforcement? You will always be free to be as big an asshole as you already
..>are,
..
..so give up then. You cannot create your:
..
..>wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat")

You completely missed the point, which was to make it off-limits to humans.

..Because way more human cells want to utilize the natural resources
..available to them to better their survival. Same behaivior as cells in
..a petri dish. They don't Create national petri parks where they don't
..go and use the natural resources.
..
..These roads you are trying to stop from being build really are the
..vascular system of the human organism. So basically you are like one
..cell in your body that wants to remove your own veins and arteries.
..
..x1134x

You make no sense.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande