BiGHA Comments

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

"Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hashim El Amin wrote:

I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any Muslims. In this part
of the country, we're always on the tail end of any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding
us because the last bunches to come through were the Irish and the Germans! But seriously,
I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it might be interesting: "Silent No More
- Confronting America's False Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.
--

Here's a quote from his book: "Most Americans have never read a verse from the Qur'an, nor met a
person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images of Islam come from snippets of television
news and headlines that falsely link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They
have no awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity, compassion,
interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common principles that should bind Muslims, Christians, and
Jews together."

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing these days to bind
Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

Be sure to include what they are doing in the area peace, compassion, interfaith tolerance, and
women's rights.

I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to work and she happened to
speak to a Muslim woman who asked about Christianity. For this the American woman was arrested,
jailed, and subjected to a death sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading
forces.

Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented. I'll be interested to
learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
vs. their beliefs in these matters.

We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.

Yes, and ALL Christians should be judged by the Spanish Inquisition. [end sarcasm]

Mr. Sherman is the best example I know of a little education being a dangerous thing. To compare
what is going on in the world TODAY with the Spanish Inquisition of roughly 500 years ago is to
admit that the Muslim religion is mired in the Middle Ages. But he is not even aware of this
anomaly. Everything runs together in his mind. All he can ever be sure of is what his liberal
ideology tells him what to think of the world. As a result he is permanently out to lunch on
every major issue confronting the world we are living in today.

Quoted message said:

We may have different religions, different languages, different colored skin, but we all belong to
one human race. We all share the same basic values. - Kofi Annan

Ms. Sherman's true calling I now feel certain would be as a mainstream religious preacher with
sermons full of love and understanding for all mankind. Actually, my favorite preachers are just
the opposite of that. I like the fire and brimstone variety who preach damnation to one and all
and I especially like it if they are thumping the Bible while they are shouting at all us
sinners. Life doesn't get any better than that!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to

work

Quoted message said:

and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about Christianity. For this the American
woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a death sentence. She was rescued from her prison by
our invading forces.

Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented. I'll be interested to
learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
vs. their beliefs in these matters.

We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.

skip

Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who claim to follow it

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r3Bwb.99031$Dw6.493658@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to

work

Quoted message said:

and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about

Christianity.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a

death

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.

Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well

documented.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their

deeds

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vs. their beliefs in these matters.

We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.

skip

Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who claim to follow it

I don't think I am.

In the example of of the woman speaking of Christianity to a Muslim woman, her death sentence was
handed down by Muslim authorities in a country operating under Islamic law.

In Saudi number of preteen girls died in a domitrory fire because the Muslim authorities would't
unlock the doors for them so they could get out. Why? Because girls weren't properly dressed to be
outside in the presence of men. Words fail me to even comment on this.

The religion itself is one thing, but if a woman is being stoned to death for adultery under
Islamic law that's another thing. It's an abomination. (Of course nothing happens to her male
partner in adultery)

I don't see any Muslims in the street protesting these atrocities. I don't even see them standing
up, speaking out, and condemning these acts with any degree of conviction. And we aren't even
talking about global terrorism.

If these atrocities were being done in the name of Jesus it would blind me to the beauty and
peace of Christianity just as these atrocities in the name of Allah blind me to the beauty and
peace of Islam.

skip

skip said:

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r3Bwb.99031$Dw6.493658@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to

work

Quoted message said:

and she happend to speak to a Muslim worman who asked about

Christianity.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a

death

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.

Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well

documented.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their

deeds

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

vs. their beliefs in these matters.

We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.

skip

Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who claim to follow it

I don't think I am.

In the example of of the woman speaking of Christianity to a Muslim woman, her death sentence was
handed down by Muslim authorities in a country operating under Islamic law.

In Saudi number of preteen girls died in a domitrory fire because the Muslim authorities would't
unlock the doors for them so they could get out. Why? Because girls weren't properly dressed to be
outside in the presence of men. Words fail me to even comment on this.

The religion itself is one thing, but if a woman is being stoned to death for adultery under
Islamic law that's another thing. It's an abomination. (Of course nothing happens to her male
partner in adultery)

I don't see any Muslims in the street protesting these atrocities. I don't even see them standing
up, speaking out, and condemning these acts with any degree of conviction. And we aren't even
talking about global terrorism.

If these atrocities were being done in the name of Jesus it would blind me to the beauty and
peace of Christianity just as these atrocities in the name of Allah blind me to the beauty and
peace of Islam.

There have been plenty of atrocities committed by "Christians" also. In both cases, the "Christians"
and "Muslims" were being false to the true teachings of the New Testament and Koran. The same can
likely be said for most if not all religions [1] - there will be those who willfully misinterpret
the teachings to suit there own purposes.

[1] Church of RANS excepted, of course. 😉 [2], [3]
[2] Recumbent content 😉
[3] Serious and flippant in the same post - this is fun!

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

"Mark Leuck" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r3Bwb.99031$Dw6.493658@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
>
> I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to

work

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> and she happened to speak to a Muslim woman who asked about

Christianity.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> For this the American woman was arrested, jailed, and subjected to a

death

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.
>
> Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well

documented.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I'll be interested to learn how Findley manages to rationalize their

deeds

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> vs. their beliefs in these matters.
>
> We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.
>
> skip

Do not confuse the religion of islam with the distorted views of some who claim to follow it

I don't think I am.

In the example of of the woman speaking of Christianity to a Muslim woman, her death sentence
was handed down by Muslim authorities in a country operating under Islamic law.

In Saudi number of preteen girls died in a dormitory fire because the Muslim authorities
wouldn't unlock the doors for them so they could get out. Why? Because girls weren't properly
dressed to be outside in the presence of men. Words fail me to even comment on this.

The religion itself is one thing, but if a woman is being stoned to death for adultery under
Islamic law that's another thing. It's an abomination. (Of course nothing happens to her male
partner in adultery)

I don't see any Muslims in the street protesting these atrocities. I don't even see them
standing up, speaking out, and condemning these acts with any degree of conviction. And we
aren't even talking about global terrorism.

If these atrocities were being done in the name of Jesus it would blind me to the beauty and
peace of Christianity just as these atrocities in the name of Allah blind me to the beauty and
peace of Islam.

There have been plenty of atrocities committed by "Christians" also. In both cases, the
"Christians" and "Muslims" were being false to the true teachings of the New Testament and Koran.
The same can likely be said for most if not all religions [1] - there will be those who willfully
misinterpret the teachings to suit there own purposes.

I do not know how you can so purposefully misread what skip has posted. These Muslim atrocities were
not false to the religion but were in accordance with the religion. When the hell are you going to
learn how to read?

Furthermore, a living religion is much more than what is contained in any book, whether it be the
Bible or the Koran. A religion is whatever is being practiced by its adherents at the time. There
are not eternal truths contained in a Holy Book. It is all subject to how it is interpreted and
practiced at any moment in time.

Also, I do not know why the hell you are putting Christians and Muslims in quotation marks. A
Christian is as Christian does and Muslim is as Muslim does. There are only words in the Holy Books,
not living breathing people. You are hopeless!

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

skip said:

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing these days to bind
Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

Edward Dolan said:

You can tell a lot about a book by its title. Sometimes the whole book is right there in
the title.

Only if it's an awfully short book.

Quoted message said:

It seems we have had this same argument before on another issue. You seem to have to experience
everything first hand in order to know what to think, whereas I can rely on those who have gone
before me, read their reports and then form my own opinions and judgments. No, I do not have to
experience everything first hand and I do not always have to read a book either to know what it is
about. Before you waste your time reading this book, why not look up some reviews of it and find
out what others think of it. That way you will know whether it is worth reading or not.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

You're joking, right? You read what others have said and then form "your" opinions based on what
they say? And yet, you won't read a book to decide, *for yourself*, what it says? You will let
others decide *for you* what *you think*, rather than deciding for yourself? Honestly, I am in
awe of anyone who will so openly admit that they do not think for themselves. Awe, mixed with
disgust and pity.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

Larry Varney said:

skip said:

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing these days to bind
Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

"Duct Tape and Islam".

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

"Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing these days to bind
Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

I'm not at all sure why you are asking this question. The title and author were clearly stated in my
post from from whence you lifted the above sentence.

I'm not sure if you are joking or are having a serious senior moment, but in any event, let me give
it to you in your own words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it might be interesting:
"Silent No More - Confronting America's False Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.

Remember it now?

skip

Tom Sherman said:

Larry Varney said:

skip said:

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing these days to bind
Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

"Duct Tape and Islam".

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Now, now - let's not drag Red Green into this!

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Larry Varney said:

skip said:

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are

doing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

"Duct Tape and Islam".

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he most often will fall back on
silliness.

skip

skip said:

"Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing these days to bind
Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

I'm not at all sure why you are asking this question. The title and author were clearly stated in
my post from from whence you lifted the above sentence.

I'm not sure if you are joking or are having a serious senior moment, but in any event, let me
give it to you in your own words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it might be interesting:
"Silent No More - Confronting America's False Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.

Remember it now?

skip

My mistake - I thought you were referring to another book than the one I had mentioned buying. At
this point, not having read it, I don't know if the answers you seek are in that book. It was
written in 2001 - this particular copy is a 4th edition, dated 2003, but I don't know if
additional information has been included in the book - so it might not cover what Muslims are
doing "these days to bind Muslims, Christians and Jews together." Of course, I do have to wonder,
given the title of the book - and according to some, the whole book is in the title - 😉 - it is
possible that this topic is not covered at all. The "false images" may not cover trying to bind
any religions together.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

skip said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Larry Varney said:

skip wrote:

>Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are

doing

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

"Duct Tape and Islam".

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he most often will fall back on
silliness.

skip

I must have missed that - what is Tom's position regarding this book? The non-silly
position, that is.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

skip (who?) said:

I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he most often will fall back on
silliness.

On the contrary, I respond to rants that are intended to be serious but are actually silly with more
silliness.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

D'oh! - Homer Simpson

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

My mistake - I thought you were referring to another book than the one I had mentioned buying.
At this point, not having read it, I don't know if the answers you seek are in that book. It
was written in 2001 - this particular copy is a 4th edition, dated 2003, but I don't know if
additional information has been included in the book - so it might not cover what Muslims are
doing "these days to bind Muslims, Christians and Jews together." Of course, I do have to
wonder, given the title of the book - and according to some, the whole book is in the title -
😉 - it is possible that this topic is not covered at all. The "false images" may not cover
trying to bind any religions together.

The quote I originally posted from "Silent No More - Confronting America's False Images of Islam" is
as follows:

"Most Americans have never read a verse from the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim.
Their distorted images of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no awareness of Islamic principles
and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity, compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's rights-common
principles that should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."

The subject is addressed in the book. I just wonder what Muslims are doing these days to accomplish
those worthy goals. I don't think he will be quoting Arafat's wife saying she hates Jews and any
normalization of relations with them to illustrate his point.

I would like to hear your take on the book after you read it.

skip

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip (who?) said:

I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he

most

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

often will fall back on silliness.

On the contrary, I respond to rants that are intended to be serious but are actually silly with
more silliness.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

D'oh! - Homer Simpson

Another observation is that he tends to quote Homer Simpson when he finds himself in these
situations.

skip

skip said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

My mistake - I thought you were referring to another book than the one I had mentioned buying.
At this point, not having read it, I don't know if the answers you seek are in that book. It
was written in 2001 - this particular copy is a 4th edition, dated 2003, but I don't know if
additional information has been included in the book - so it might not cover what Muslims are
doing "these days to bind Muslims, Christians and Jews together." Of course, I do have to
wonder, given the title of the book - and according to some, the whole book is in the title -
😉 - it is possible that this topic is not covered at all. The "false images" may not cover
trying to bind any religions together.

The quote I originally posted from "Silent No More - Confronting America's False Images of Islam"
is as follows:

"Most Americans have never read a verse from the Qur'an, nor met a person they knew to be Muslim.
Their distorted images of Islam come from snippets of television news and headlines that falsely
link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have no awareness of Islamic
principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity, compassion, interfaith tolerance, women's
rights-common principles that should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together."

The subject is addressed in the book. I just wonder what Muslims are doing these days to
accomplish those worthy goals. I don't think he will be quoting Arafat's wife saying she hates
Jews and any normalization of relations with them to illustrate his point.

I would like to hear your take on the book after you read it.

skip

I think you're misinterpreting the quote. Just as there are "principles" that "bind" lots of
groups and people - shared principles, common ideas - that's not the same as actually binding
together those groups into one. Just as Democrats and Republicans can be said to share some of
the same ideas, I doubt if anyone is actively trying to "bind together" the two parties into just
one. What I see that quote as saying is that, because of certain shared ideas, those groups are
already bound together - by those very shared ideas. But bind them together totally, as in one
group? Doubtful. They share some ideas, but not all, and that will keep them separated.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

"Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Larry Varney wrote:

Tom has no non-silly position on these issues. He's reduced to "Duct Tape and Islam" type comments.

skip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>skip wrote:
>
>
>>Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are

doing

Quoted message said:

>>these days to bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.
>
> And what's the title of the book you wish me to report on?

"Duct Tape and Islam".

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he

most

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

often will fall back on silliness.

skip

I must have missed that - what is Tom's position regarding this book? The non-silly position,
that is.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

"Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think you're misinterpreting the quote. Just as there are "principles" that "bind" lots of
groups and people - shared principles, common ideas - that's not the same as actually binding
together those groups into one. Just as Democrats and Republicans can be said to share some of
the same ideas, I doubt if anyone is actively trying to "bind together" the two parties into
just one. What I see that quote as saying is that, because of certain shared ideas, those
groups are already bound together - by those very shared ideas. But bind them together totally,
as in one group? Doubtful. They share some ideas, but not all, and that will keep them
separated.

--
Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarneyOpen ↗

Oh no. The one group idea wouldn't be my interpetation at all.

My question is how do current day Muslim beliefs and deeds relate to current day Judeo-Christian
shared beliefs and deeds in the areas of compassion, peace, interfaith tolerance, women's rights,
etc. What rationalizations does the author use to convince us that Muslims can bind (whatever the
author means by the term) together with Christians and Jews concerning these matters?

skip

[email hidden] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Larry Varney <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[...]

Quoted message said:

I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any Muslims. In this part of
the country, we're always on the tail end of any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding us
because the last bunches to come through were the Irish and the Germans! But seriously, I
picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it might be interesting: "Silent No More -
Confronting America's False Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.

From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr. Varney. All is not sweetness and
light in the Muslim World. Other books have been written which clearly show this. There was a
Muslim author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the Muslim religion and had
some very interesting things to say about it. He was totally disillusioned with the religion and
pointed out many of its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of the book or the
name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open your eyes. I do not think I
would bother to read any book about Islam that wants to make the case that it is a religion of
peace and freedom.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Give me the name of the book and I'll gladly read it. I don't find it very helpful to censor myself
from opposing views and ideas. Oftentimes I've discovered my preconcieved notions are wrong. Have
you ever been wrong Mr Dolan?

Does it make life easier for you to blame everything wrong in the world on Muslims?

Believe it or not, there are people just like you in the "Muslim World." They watch TV and read
the papers and believe every word that's in them about how evil America and the West is. All
Americans are war-mongerers who think they own the world and dance like Britney Spears on MTV in
their free time.

Of course these ideas are silly, just like the silly ideas you have in your head about Islam. But
they still incite hatred so I guess they meet their purposes. Just know that in the end, you're just
another sucker - not the genius you think you are.