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Recumbent bicycles
Published
8 November 2003
Last activity
2 December 2003
Original author
Nick
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218
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  1. Quoted message said:

    Here's a quote from his book: "Most Americans have never read a verse from the Qur'an, nor met a
    person they knew to be Muslim. Their distorted images of Islam come from snippets of television
    news and headlines that falsely link Islam with terrorism and the degradation of women. They have
    no awareness of Islamic principles and beliefs-monotheism, peace, charity, compassion, interfaith
    tolerance, women's rights-common principles that should bind Muslims, Christians, and Jews
    together."

    Perhaps Mr. Varney will give us a book report on what Muslims are doing these days to bind
    Muslims, Christians, and Jews together.

    Be sure to include what they are doing in the area peace, compassion, interfaith tolerance, and
    women's rights.

    I'm reminded of a young woman from our town who went to Afghanistan to work and she happend to
    speak to a Muslim worman who asked about Christianity. For this the American woman was arrested,
    jailed, and subjected to a death sentence. She was rescued from her prison by our invading forces.

    Muslim transgressions in all of these areas are gross and well documented. I'll be interested to
    learn how Findley manages to rationalize their deeds
    vs. their beliefs in these matters.

    We have to deal with their deeds - not their Qur'an.

    skip

    The "common principles that bind Muslims, Christians and Jews together" does not mean that Muslims
    are waging some kind of PR war for unity. Rather, it refers to the fact that Muslims value these
    principles.

    As for the Taliban in Afghanistan, let us not forget that they overthrew an already Muslim
    government to institute their own twisted interpretation of things. It's not difficult to find
    Muslims all over the world who oppose the Taliban and even the extremist doctrines practiced in
    countries like Saudi Arabia.

    Even in their own countries, these ideas are not popular. Most Saudis do not agree with the laws
    that exist mainly to keep the Royals in power. Protests regularly occur in countries like Turkey,
    Iran and Jordan. And don't forget that the Taliban had to fight in a Civil War for their very
    existence from the time they were in power until they fell.

    I suppose you also believe that women are less equal in Islam. This could not be further from the
    truth. Even in such countries as Iran and Saudi Arabia, women attend college and have careers. Women
    also receive equal pay for equal work, something that is not acheived even in America. A Muslim
    woman is the president of Indonesia. A Muslim woman was president of Pakistan. Muslim women hold key
    government positions in governments all over the world. The Qu'ran guaruntees women the right to
    divorce and ensures them specific enheiritance rights. But you think just because someone covers
    their hair (which is usually choice, not law) they are oppressed?

    And I'm sick of people saying Muslims are intolerant. There are an estimated 20m Muslims in the U.S.
    When was the last time you saw a TV commercial or a billboard encouraging you to convert to Islam?
    Where have you seen a statue of Muhammad? When was the last time a Muslim came to your door to
    convert you? When did you hear you'll go to hell if you don't become a Muslim?

    Christians do these things all the time, yet they're so full of love and compassion and tolerance??
    Give me a break and stop believing everything you hear on the news. Things are newsworthy by
    definition for being out of the ordinary.

    Too bad many of us can't grasp this concept.

  2. skip said:

    "Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I think you're misinterpreting the quote. Just as there are "principles" that "bind" lots of
    groups and people - shared principles, common ideas - that's not the same as actually binding
    together those groups into one. Just as Democrats and Republicans can be said to share some of
    the same ideas, I doubt if anyone is actively trying to "bind together" the two parties into
    just one. What I see that quote as saying is that, because of certain shared ideas, those
    groups are already bound together - by those very shared ideas. But bind them together totally,
    as in one group? Doubtful. They share some ideas, but not all, and that will keep them
    separated.

    --
    Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarney

    Oh no. The one group idea wouldn't be my interpetation at all.

    My question is how do current day Muslim beliefs and deeds relate to current day Judeo-Christian
    shared beliefs and deeds in the areas of compassion, peace, interfaith tolerance, women's rights,
    etc. What rationalizations does the author use to convince us that Muslims can bind (whatever the
    author means by the term) together with Christians and Jews concerning these matters?

    skip

    See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs *and deeds*"? It's as much
    a mistake to say that the actions of a few reflect the beliefs of the many. Such as: is it the
    belief of Christians that doctors who perform abortions should be killed? How about that demons
    inhabit the bodies of people who won't behave, and that they should have them beaten out of them?
    Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be that the actual writings and
    "offical" rules of that group do not sancton those actions. So, I don't believe that all
    Christians are guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that all
    Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? Finally, it's not a matter of
    *can" the Muslims "bind together" with Christians and Jews on certain matters - they already are!
    Check out the writings in the various religious documents and see where they agree and disagree.
    Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for instance, are representative of the
    whole, and the same goes for Jews, Muslims, Republicans, etc.

    --
    Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarney

  3. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription anti-psychotic drugs? You
    continually recommend products that you've not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha
    comments, that is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
    psychological assistance?

    Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address any of the many issues I've
    covered in the previous posts. It won't kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can
    happen is you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.

    What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many lies. Lies that are in
    defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in defence of someone who has committed identity theft.
    If you are trolling for pity, you have it.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
    for the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called upon to act in accordance
    with the dictates of reason." Oscar Wilde

    Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so many questions, that by now
    you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left. For all we know, when you skeptically ask if anyone owns
    a Bigha, it could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.

  4. Lawrence Turner said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription anti-psychotic drugs? You
    continually recommend products that you've not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your Bigha
    comments, that is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
    psychological assistance?

    Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address any of the many issues I've
    covered in the previous posts. It won't kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can
    happen is you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.

    What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many lies. Lies that are in
    defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in defence of someone who has committed identity theft.
    If you are trolling for pity, you have it.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
    for the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called upon to act in accordance
    with the dictates of reason." Oscar Wilde

    Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so many questions, that by now
    you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left. For all we know, when you skeptically ask if anyone
    owns a Bigha, it could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.

    LIE:

    11/18/03 11:46 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that Bigha is a piece of [censored] and
    it gets positive reviews. Then you say it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will buy
    it, and somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.

    RESPONSE:

    11/19/03 11:48 AM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a piece of [censored]", in fact I
    have several times said it looked like a good bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price range
    of comparative bikes. Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a Bigha for
    review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was great for the price I paid.
    So far (excluding the attempts at deception) we have heard from one single person who has said
    they have paid full price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike or any info
    about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a much cheaper price or a much
    higher performance bike at a comparative price, other then he just likes it and thinks it's nice.

    LIE:

    11/19/03 5:47 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase the product. A review by a
    customer wouldn't exactly be objective, now would it? Why don't you write to your favorite
    magazine or TV show and ask them how many of their products they reviewed were actually paid for?

    As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that he likes justification
    enough? He said he's tried other bents and did not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you really
    wanted more specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.

    It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of circles.

    RESPONSE:

    11/20/03 6:18 PM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend that much when there are
    other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this bike superior to similar
    but much less expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced but much
    higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and boil down to he just likes it better.

    There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a bicycle he himself does not
    deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a free review model?

    Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile. Only the few reviewers
    like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and accept no advertising can be judged impartial
    and honest.

    LIE:

    11/19/03 11:10 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite nicely. If anything was vague,
    it was your question. If you wanted technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you
    gave no hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because somebody beat you at
    your own game by saying they paid full price for a Bigha.

    What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend their purchases just to avoid
    looking bad, but now seem to think these are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha owner
    steps up to give his opinion and you deem it worthless.

    Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to attack a bike he supposedly
    hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?

    RESPONSE:

    11/20/03 9:44 AM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to continually lie in support of a
    bicycle that they themselves would never buy? Only someone who has paid full price for anything
    can determine if it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have several times
    said that reviews from people who get items for free have little value. The one solitary person
    who has said they had bought a Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to gives any
    objective details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha, continues to defend
    this bicycle. What possible reason is there for this? Is he really a Bigha employee? Or is he
    just another psycho?

    I could go on and on. What a sad little man. Obviously incapable of distinguishing his fantasies
    from reality.

    By the way, this "TJ Theismen" who is the sole person who claimed to have bought a Bigha (other then
    a poor attempt at deception by another nutcase) is known to have committed identity theft and fraud
    by posting under both the "TJ Theismen" identity and my name from his computer with the static
    address 65.125.99.194 being the same in both messages. As this demonstrates he is a liar and
    considering the very vague explanations of why he purchased a Bigha, it has become very questionable
    whether he has actually ever saw a Bigha, much less purchased one.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for
    the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Main Entry: psy·cho·sis Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural
    psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: New Latin Date: 1847
    : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
    defective or lost contact with reality

    © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

  5. Lorenzo L. Love said:


    I could go on and on

    Don't we know it!

    Mike Rice

  6. "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Lawrence Turner said:
    Quoted message said:

    >Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription anti-psychotic drugs? You
    >continually recommend products that you've not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your
    >Bigha comments, that is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
    >psychological assistance?
    >
    >Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address any of the many issues I've
    >covered in the previous posts. It won't kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can
    >happen is you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.

    What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many lies. Lies that are in
    defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in defence of someone who has committed identity
    theft. If you are trolling for pity, you have it.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
    for the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    "Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called upon to act in
    accordance with the dictates of reason." Oscar Wilde

    Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so many questions, that by
    now you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left. For all we know, when you skeptically ask if
    anyone owns a Bigha, it could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.

    LIE:

    11/18/03 11:46 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that Bigha is a piece of [censored]
    and it gets positive reviews. Then you say it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will
    buy it, and somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.

    RESPONSE:

    11/19/03 11:48 AM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a piece of [censored]", in fact I
    have several times said it looked like a good bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price
    range of comparative bikes. Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a
    Bigha for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was great for the
    price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception) we have heard from one single person
    who has said they have paid full price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike
    or any info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a much cheaper
    price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative price, other then he just likes it and
    thinks it's nice.

    LIE:

    11/19/03 5:47 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase the product. A review
    by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective, now would it? Why don't you write to your
    favorite magazine or TV show and ask them how many of their products they reviewed were
    actually paid for?

    As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that he likes justification
    enough? He said he's tried other bents and did not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you
    really wanted more specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.

    It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of circles.

    RESPONSE:

    11/19/03 6:18 PM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend that much when there
    are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this bike superior to
    similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
    but much higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and boil down to he just likes
    it better.

    There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a bicycle he himself does
    not deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a free review model?

    Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile. Only the few reviewers
    like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and accept no advertising can be judged impartial
    and honest.

    LIE:

    11/19/03 11:10 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite nicely. If anything was vague,
    it was your question. If you wanted technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you
    gave no hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because somebody beat you
    at your own game by saying they paid full price for a Bigha.

    What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend their purchases just to
    avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha
    owner steps up to give his opinion and you deem it worthless.

    Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to attack a bike he
    supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?

    RESPONSE:

    11/20/03 9:44 AM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to continually lie in support of
    a bicycle that they themselves would never buy? Only someone who has paid full price for
    anything can determine if it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
    several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have little value. The one
    solitary person who has said they had bought a Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to
    gives any objective details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha, continues
    to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for this? Is he really a Bigha employee?
    Or is he just another psycho?

    I could go on and on. What a sad little man. Obviously incapable of distinguishing his fantasies
    from reality.

    By the way, this "TJ Theismen" who is the sole person who claimed to have bought a Bigha (other
    then a poor attempt at deception by another nutcase) is known to have committed identity theft and
    fraud by posting under both the "TJ Theismen" identity and my name from his computer with the
    static address 65.125.99.194 being the same in both messages. As this demonstrates he is a liar
    and considering the very vague explanations of why he purchased a Bigha, it has become very
    questionable whether he has actually ever saw a Bigha, much less purchased one.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
    for the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Main Entry: psy·cho·sis Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural
    psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: New Latin Date: 1847
    : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
    defective or lost contact with reality

    © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

    My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised issues that you've completely
    dodged and to this moment have not acknowledged. Even after reading the previous messages again, I
    don't see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in your own words, using
    your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.

    I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I need you to really focus
    and try to speak English with me here and use clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions
    don't cut it in the sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you compose
    your response.

    Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!

  7. [email hidden] (Hashim El Amin) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Larry Varney <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any Muslims. In this part
    of the country, we're always on the tail end of any immigration. Maybe people are avoiding
    us because the last bunches to come through were the Irish and the Germans! But seriously,
    I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it might be interesting: "Silent No More
    - Confronting America's False Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.

    From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr. Varney. All is not sweetness and
    light in the Muslim World. Other books have been written which clearly show this. There was a
    Muslim author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the Muslim religion and had
    some very interesting things to say about it. He was totally disillusioned with the religion and
    pointed out many of its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of the book or the
    name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open your eyes. I do not think I
    would bother to read any book about Islam that wants to make the case that it is a religion of
    peace and freedom.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

    Give me the name of the book and I'll gladly read it. I don't find it very helpful to censor
    myself from opposing views and ideas. Oftentimes I've discovered my preconcieved notions are
    wrong. Have you ever been wrong Mr Dolan?

    The most intelligent thing you can do when it comes time to read a book is to choose which book to
    read among the many thousands that are available. Poor Mr. Varney has been taken in by the first
    book about Muslims to fall into his hands. He is even so ignorant that he does not want to even read
    a book review and find out what others who are many times smarter than him think about it. That is
    the ultimate ignorance and the hallmark of an uneducated person.

    Quoted message said:

    Does it make life easier for you to blame everything wrong in the world on Muslims?

    I am only blaming on the Muslims what they have themselves taken credit for, although morons like
    Mr. Sherman are not sure who is doing what to whom.

    Quoted message said:

    Believe it or not, there are people just like you in the "Muslim World." They watch TV and read
    the papers and believe every word that's in them about how evil America and the West is. All
    Americans are war-mongerers who think they own the world and dance like Britney Spears on MTV in
    their free time.

    There is no free press in the Muslim world that I know about. Muslims are steeped in ignorance,
    prejudice and superstition. They think what ever their governments (mostly thug governments) tell
    them to think, and then they go out into the streets and have their miserable protests and
    demonstrations against the West - as if we are somehow responsible for all their miseries. That is
    your world, not mine. Maybe you would like to return to it, but we in the West think it is all an
    abomination!

    Quoted message said:

    Of course these ideas are silly, just like the silly ideas you have in your head about Islam. But
    they still incite hatred so I guess they meet their purposes. Just know that in the end, you're
    just another sucker - not the genius you think you are.

    The only thing that is citing hatred in the West for Islam are all these terrorist attacks emanating
    from the Muslims. Maybe you would like to address that instead of bleating about my so called
    "silliness". Prior to these attacks, I never had any thought in my head for Islam except one of
    generalized contempt for a foolish and ridiculous religion that is only worthy of simple minded
    people. It is a simple religion for simple people. But I am all in favor of any religion if it
    installs some morality in the believer, but the morality of Muslims apparently does not extend to
    non-Muslims.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

  8. Lawrence Turner said:

    "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Lawrence Turner said:

    >>Have you paid for "professional help?" Have you paid for prescription anti-psychotic drugs? You
    >>continually recommend products that you've not admitted to using yourself. Judging by your
    >>Bigha comments, that is a big no-no in your book. So have you or have you not received
    >>psychological assistance?
    >>
    >>Please feel free to answer any one of the questions or even address any of the many issues I've
    >>covered in the previous posts. It won't kill you NOT to change the subject. The worst that can
    >>happen is you'll look stupid, which wouldn't exactly be headline news, either.
    >
    >What a sad pathetic little loser that finds it necessary to spew so many lies. Lies that are in
    >defence of a bike he will not ever buy and in defence of someone who has committed identity
    >theft. If you are trolling for pity, you have it.
    >
    >Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
    >for the full $3000.00 price?
    >
    >Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove
    >
    >"Man is a rational animal who always loses his temper when he is called upon to act in
    >accordance with the dictates of reason." Oscar Wilde

    Your lies have been exposed so many times, you've failed to answer so many questions, that by now
    you have absolutely ZERO credibiltiy left. For all we know, when you skeptically ask if anyone
    owns a Bigha, it could be your way of admitting you ride one every day.

    LIE:

    11/18/03 11:46 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Lorenzo, you've truly outdone yourself this time. You've stated that Bigha is a piece of [censored]
    and it gets positive reviews. Then you say it's overpriced and nobody in their right mind will
    buy it, and somebody comes forward to say he owns one and it's worth every penny.

    RESPONSE:

    11/19/03 11:48 AM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    You are quite simply lying. I have never said that the Bigha was "a piece of [censored]", in fact I
    have several times said it looked like a good bike - if it was in the $1200 to $1500 price
    range of comparative bikes. Every positive review posted has been by someone who was given a
    Bigha for review for free. Give me any thing for free and I'll tell you it was great for the
    price I paid. So far (excluding the attempts at deception) we have heard from one single person
    who has said they have paid full price, and he has declined to give any details about the bike
    or any info about why he purchase a Bigha rather then a comparative bike at a much cheaper
    price or a much higher performance bike at a comparative price, other then he just likes it and
    thinks it's nice.

    LIE:

    11/19/03 5:47 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Newsflash: product reviews are given by reporters who do not purchase the product. A review
    by a customer wouldn't exactly be objective, now would it? Why don't you write to your
    favorite magazine or TV show and ask them how many of their products they reviewed were
    actually paid for?

    As for Mr Theismen (the Bigha owner), isn't having a "nice" bike that he likes justification
    enough? He said he's tried other bents and did not find them as nice as the Bigha. If you
    really wanted more specifics you could have asked, but you failed to.

    It seems to me Lorenzo L. Love, that you've just about run out of circles.

    RESPONSE:

    11/19/03 6:18 PM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Lying again. I asked the specific questions "Why did you decide to spend that much when there
    are other much cheaper bikes that are in the same class? In what way is this bike superior to
    similar but much less expensive bikes? In what way is this bike the equal to similarly priced
    but much higher performance bikes?" His answers were quite vague and boil down to he just likes
    it better.

    There seems to be no end to the lies Mr. Turner will spew to defend a bicycle he himself does
    not deem worth purchasing. Is he counting on a free review model?

    Free review product placement is why most reviews are not worthwhile. Only the few reviewers
    like the Consumers Union who pay full retail and accept no advertising can be judged impartial
    and honest.

    LIE:

    11/19/03 11:10 PM Lawrence Turner said:

    Making no sense again. I thought he answered your question quite nicely. If anything was vague,
    it was your question. If you wanted technical details you could have asked a follow up. But you
    gave no hint that you were not satisfied with his answer, seemingly because somebody beat you
    at your own game by saying they paid full price for a Bigha.

    What confuses me is how you've stated many times people will defend their purchases just to
    avoid looking bad, but now seem to think these are the only objective reviews. And then a Bigha
    owner steps up to give his opinion and you deem it worthless.

    Mr Love seems to be talking out of several sides of the same mouth to attack a bike he
    supposedly hasn't even seen. Why the vendetta? Is he perhaps a disgruntled ex-Bigha employee?

    RESPONSE:

    11/20/03 9:44 AM Lorenzo L. Love said:

    Still lying. What kind of psychological problems compel people to continually lie in support of
    a bicycle that they themselves would never buy? Only someone who has paid full price for
    anything can determine if it is worth the price. I have never said otherwise. In fact I have
    several times said that reviews from people who get items for free have little value. The one
    solitary person who has said they had bought a Bigha seems to like it a lot, but he declines to
    gives any objective details on why. Meanwhile, Mr. Turner, who will not buy a Bigha, continues
    to defend this bicycle. What possible reason is there for this? Is he really a Bigha employee?
    Or is he just another psycho?

    I could go on and on. What a sad little man. Obviously incapable of distinguishing his fantasies
    from reality.

    By the way, this "TJ Theismen" who is the sole person who claimed to have bought a Bigha (other
    then a poor attempt at deception by another nutcase) is known to have committed identity theft and
    fraud by posting under both the "TJ Theismen" identity and my name from his computer with the
    static address 65.125.99.194 being the same in both messages. As this demonstrates he is a liar
    and considering the very vague explanations of why he purchased a Bigha, it has become very
    questionable whether he has actually ever saw a Bigha, much less purchased one.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
    for the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Main Entry: psy·cho·sis Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural
    psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: New Latin Date: 1847
    : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
    defective or lost contact with reality

    © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

    My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised issues that you've
    completely dodged and to this moment have not acknowledged. Even after reading the previous
    messages again, I don't see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in your
    own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.

    I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I need you to really focus and
    try to speak English with me here and use clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't
    cut it in the sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you compose your
    response.

    Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!

    The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are continuing to lie in support of a
    ridiculously overpriced bicycle that you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who has
    committed identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability to understand your
    own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Main Entry: psy·cho·sis Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural
    psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: New Latin Date: 1847
    : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
    defective or lost contact with reality

    © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

  9. Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    skip (who?) said:


    I've noticed when Tom can no longer defend his position rationally he most often will fall back
    on silliness.

    On the contrary, I respond to rants that are intended to be serious but are actually silly with
    more silliness.

    Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

    D'oh! - Homer Simpson

    If you think a "rant" is "silly", why respond at all? We are not all here on tenterhooks just
    waiting to hear what you think about something. Every time you think it appropriate to post
    something silly to something I have to say, I am going to give you a big fat raspberry
    - but the obscene kind. I will oppose your silliness with my obscenities.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

  10. Larry Varney <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    skip said:

    Oh no. The one group idea wouldn't be my interpetation at all.

    My question is how do current day Muslim beliefs and deeds relate to current day Judeo-Christian
    shared beliefs and deeds in the areas of compassion, peace, interfaith tolerance, women's
    rights, etc. What rationalizations does the author use to convince us that Muslims can bind
    (whatever the author means by the term) together with Christians and Jews concerning these
    matters?

    skip

    See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs *and deeds*"? It's as
    much a mistake to say that the actions of a few reflect the beliefs of the many. Such as: is it
    the belief of Christians that doctors who perform abortions should be killed? How about that
    demons inhabit the bodies of people who won't behave, and that they should have them beaten out
    of them? Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be that the actual
    writings and "offical" rules of that group do not sancton those actions. So, I don't believe
    that all Christians are guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that
    all Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? Finally, it's not a
    matter of *can" the Muslims "bind together" with Christians and Jews on certain matters - they
    already are! Check out the writings in the various religious documents and see where they agree
    and disagree. Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for instance, are
    representative of the whole, and the same goes for Jews, Muslims, Republicans, etc.

    I am not interested in what Mr. Varney has to say with respect to the Muslims. He knows as little
    about them as I do. I would be interested in hearing what some Muslim has to say in defense of the
    Muslim terrorists. Such a person could perhaps explain and justify some of their beliefs and
    practices which we in the West find repugnant and disgusting, not to say horrible (skip has already
    cited a few of those practices).

    I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but rather it is a religion of
    perpetual war against the "infidel". It has no toleration for other religious beliefs and will
    always persecute those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so safely. The
    history of Muslim countries is replete with countless examples. The Muslims currently living in the
    West are being Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever manifesting itself
    in the West.

    And the Muslim treatment of women is an abomination which they cannot justify to any Westerner. But
    let them try. I am listening.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

  11. Edward Dolan scribed with passion and wit:

    Quoted message said:


    I am not interested in what Mr. Varney has to say with respect to the Muslims. He knows as little
    about them as I do. I would be interested in hearing what some Muslim has to say in defense of the
    Muslim terrorists. Such a person could perhaps explain and justify some of their beliefs and
    practices which we in the West find repugnant and disgusting, not to say horrible (skip has
    already cited a few of those practices).

    There is no defence against terrorism, and this goes for U.S. policy as well.

    Quoted message said:


    I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but rather it is a religion of
    perpetual war against the "infidel". It has no toleration for other religious beliefs and will
    always persecute those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so safely.
    The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless examples. The Muslims currently living
    in the West are being Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever manifesting
    itself in the West.


    "Thou shalt not kill" is in the Quran, when I was educated as a child in the Mosque we were told
    always to respect the religious tenets of other faiths, because it always costs a person something
    to be faithful to a creed and that sacrifice shows character. To mock the wishy washy, Christian on
    Sunday, hedonist in the week brigade is something anyone can take part in though, hypocrisy is
    always fair game.

    Quoted message said:


    And the Muslim treatment of women is an abomination which they cannot justify to any Westerner.
    But let them try. I am listening.

    Women are different but equal, you are blinded by extremists that you insist are representative of
    true Islam whilst admitting you know little or nothing of the faith.

    --
    Ian

    catrike.co.ukcatrike.co.uk

  12. Edward Dolan said:


    The most intelligent thing you can do when it comes time to read a book is to choose which book to
    read among the many thousands that are available. Poor Mr. Varney has been taken in by the first
    book about Muslims to fall into his hands. He is even so ignorant that he does not want to even
    read a book review and find out what others who are many times smarter than him think about it.
    That is the ultimate ignorance and the hallmark of an uneducated person.

    ROTFL! Dolan, I never said anything about not wanting to read a book review to see what others
    think about a book - what I've been saying, all along, is that I will not let others do my
    thinking for me - if I have the chance to read the book myself, I will do so, and not let someone
    else determine my opinion for me. There are some things that we either cannot check out for
    ourselves, or are extremely difficult to do. As in, I will have to take the words of others as to
    how it feels to walk on the moon. But I CAN read a book, and I will. Why won't you?
    --
    Larry Varney Cold Spring, KY home.fuse.netlarryvarney

  13. Ian <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    Edward Dolan scribed with passion and wit:

    Quoted message said:


    I am not interested in what Mr. Varney has to say with respect to the Muslims. He knows as
    little about them as I do. I would be interested in hearing what some Muslim has to say in
    defense of the Muslim terrorists. Such a person could perhaps explain and justify some of their
    beliefs and practices which we in the West find repugnant and disgusting, not to say horrible
    (skip has already cited a few of those practices).

    There is no defence against terrorism, and this goes for U.S. policy as well.

    U.S. policy at home and abroad is never based on terrorism. To think otherwise is just too ignorant
    for words.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but rather it is a religion of
    perpetual war against the "infidel". It has no toleration for other religious beliefs and will
    always persecute those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so safely.
    The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless examples. The Muslims currently living
    in the West are being Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever
    manifesting itself in the West.

    "Thou shalt not kill" is in the Quran, when I was educated as a child in the Mosque we were told
    always to respect the religious tenets of other faiths, because it always costs a person something
    to be faithful to a creed and that sacrifice shows character. To mock the wishy washy, Christian
    on Sunday, hedonist in the week brigade is something anyone can take part in though, hypocrisy is
    always fair game.

    Frankly, I am not interested in what is in the Koran (this is the spelling I grew up with - is it
    not considered to be correct anymore I wonder?). I am far more interested in what is being preached
    in the mosques and what is being taught in the schools. If you tell me that you were taught to be
    tolerant of other faiths I will believe you, but I fear that is not what is going on today in the
    Middle East. Are Moslems equally tolerant of those professing no faith at all I wonder, in other
    words, of atheists?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    And the Muslim treatment of women is an abomination which they cannot justify to any Westerner.
    But let them try. I am listening.

    Women are different but equal, you are blinded by extremists that you insist are representative of
    true Islam whilst admitting you know little or nothing of the faith.

    I too think women are very different than men in many and important ways but they should have equal
    rights and equal opportunities under the law and in practice. This revolution occurred many
    generations ago in the West but I have not yet seen the equivalent revolution in the Moslem World.
    Until I do I will not hold the Muslim religion in any esteem.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

  14. "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> escreveu na mensagem
    "]news:[email hidden]... ..............

    Quoted message said:


    I do not believe the Muslim religion is a religion of peace, but rather it is a religion of
    perpetual war against the "infidel". It has no toleration for other religious beliefs and will
    always persecute those of other religious beliefs if it has the advantage and can do so safely.
    The history of Muslim countries is replete with countless examples. The Muslims currently living
    in the West are being Westernized and so there is no danger of their intolerance ever manifesting
    itself in the West.


    ............

    You've described the Xiita muslims (the minority), not the Sunita muslims (the majority)... Muslim
    religion is a religion of peace. The principle of Jihad, isn't the war against the infidels... Jihad
    is a fight against infidelity. Not all the muslim people are terrorist.

    Before you blow me in bits, I'm not muslim, I'm roman catholic, but I have several muslim
    friends, jew friends and protestant friends. I respect their religions, because I like when they
    respect mine...

    God Bless You!

    []'s Eduardo
    --

    Ypê Bike: ypebike.cjb.netypebike.cjb.net Ypê Mono: ype.unicyclist.comype.unicyclist.com

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.544 / Virus Database: 338 - Release Date: 25/11/2003

  15. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    [...]

    > I'll be the first to admit that, as far as I know, I don't know any Muslims. In this part
    > of the country, we're always on the tail end of any immigration. Maybe people are
    > avoiding us because the last bunches to come through were the Irish and the Germans! But
    > seriously, I picked up a book just yesterday that sounds like it might be interesting:
    > "Silent No More - Confronting America's False Images of Islam" by Paul Findley.

    From the title alone it sounds like a really bad book to me Mr. Varney. All is not sweetness
    and light in the Muslim World. Other books have been written which clearly show this. There
    was a Muslim author on C-Span Book Notes not too long ago who lectured on the Muslim religion
    and had some very interesting things to say about it. He was totally disillusioned with the
    religion and pointed out many of its very bad features. I wish I could remember the name of
    the book or the name of its author so I could give it to you. It would REALLY open your eyes.
    I do not think I would bother to read any book about Islam that wants to make the case that it
    is a religion of peace and freedom.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

    Give me the name of the book and I'll gladly read it. I don't find it very helpful to censor
    myself from opposing views and ideas. Oftentimes I've discovered my preconcieved notions are
    wrong. Have you ever been wrong Mr Dolan?

    The most intelligent thing you can do when it comes time to read a book is to choose which book to
    read among the many thousands that are available. Poor Mr. Varney has been taken in by the first
    book about Muslims to fall into his hands. He is even so ignorant that he does not want to even
    read a book review and find out what others who are many times smarter than him think about it.
    That is the ultimate ignorance and the hallmark of an uneducated person.

    Quoted message said:

    Does it make life easier for you to blame everything wrong in the world on Muslims?

    I am only blaming on the Muslims what they have themselves taken credit for, although morons like
    Mr. Sherman are not sure who is doing what to whom.

    Quoted message said:

    Believe it or not, there are people just like you in the "Muslim World." They watch TV and read
    the papers and believe every word that's in them about how evil America and the West is. All
    Americans are war-mongerers who think they own the world and dance like Britney Spears on MTV in
    their free time.

    There is no free press in the Muslim world that I know about. Muslims are steeped in ignorance,
    prejudice and superstition. They think what ever their governments (mostly thug governments) tell
    them to think, and then they go out into the streets and have their miserable protests and
    demonstrations against the West - as if we are somehow responsible for all their miseries. That is
    your world, not mine. Maybe you would like to return to it, but we in the West think it is all an
    abomination!

    Quoted message said:

    Of course these ideas are silly, just like the silly ideas you have in your head about Islam.
    But they still incite hatred so I guess they meet their purposes. Just know that in the end,
    you're just another sucker - not the genius you think you are.

    The only thing that is citing hatred in the West for Islam are all these terrorist attacks
    emanating from the Muslims. Maybe you would like to address that instead of bleating about my so
    called "silliness". Prior to these attacks, I never had any thought in my head for Islam except
    one of generalized contempt for a foolish and ridiculous religion that is only worthy of simple
    minded people. It is a simple religion for simple people. But I am all in favor of any religion if
    it installs some morality in the believer, but the morality of Muslims apparently does not extend
    to non-Muslims.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota

    I laughed out loud when I read your post. How can you be so ignorant as to believe everything you
    read and see on TV? Then you form an idea in your head and protect this idea by obtaining as little
    information as possible on the subject. I don't see where you get off admonishing Larry Varney for
    reading a book. He simply said he was reading a book and had not admitted forming any opinions on
    the matter. Some people (apparently not Ed Dolan) like to make up their own minds rather than
    believe everything they hear and see from others.

    "There is no free press in the Muslim world that I know of." You could probably fill the Great Lakes
    with what you don't know. You also didn't know that there were Christian Palestinians, who by the
    way, also fight the Israeli occupation. Does that make Christianity a brutal religion? Free press
    exists throughout the world except for places like China, North Korea and, until recently, Iraq.
    Just because something has a different slant than American media does not make it propogandous.

    "That is your world, not mine. Maybe you would like to return to it, but we in the West think it is
    all an abomination!" You'd like me to go back to where? Sorry, I was born and raised here in
    America, where I work and vote. This may scare you, but there are millions more just like me! As for
    "we in the West," you're speaking only for yourself. Most Americans and westerners are not as simple
    minded as you and wish to know the entire truth before they condemn something.

    I just read your post again, and I think you must be joking. Nobody would admit to being as simple
    and closed minded as you are. I am done talking to you unless you have some serious questions on
    Islam, or by the stroke of some miracle, you decide you're interested in recumbent bicycles.
    Otherwise, please feel free to continue to spew your ridiculous hatred towards Muslims, just know
    that it has very little effect on anyone. No matter what you say, God is still greater than you or
    any ugly lie you can tell.

  16. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised issues that you've
    completely dodged and to this moment have not acknowledged. Even after reading the previous
    messages again, I don't see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
    your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.

    I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I need you to really focus
    and try to speak English with me here and use clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions
    don't cut it in the sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you compose
    your response.

    Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!

    The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are continuing to lie in support of a
    ridiculously overpriced bicycle that you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who
    has committed identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability to
    understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Main Entry: psy·cho·sis Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural
    psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: New Latin Date: 1847
    : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
    defective or lost contact with reality

    © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

    Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's kicked in, then read and
    respond my posts. Obviously whatever content is in these posts goes right over your head and you
    need help.

    Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a person. I've asked you many
    questions and exposed your lies and insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by changing
    the subject.

    Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.

    1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
    a) People who get the bike for free
    b) People who are full price customers

    We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please note that "whoever agrees with
    LLL on the merits of the product" is NOT an acceptable answer.

    This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve answers, and most people
    habitually answer questions without having to make serious psychological progress. I placed this
    question quite obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a question could be
    simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world, though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a way
    to avoid it.

    I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the non-babbling version.

  17. "Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs *and deeds*"? It's as
    much a mistake to say that the actions of a few reflect the beliefs of the many. Such as: is
    it the belief of Christians that doctors who perform abortions should be killed? How about
    that demons inhabit the bodies of people who won't behave, and that they should have them
    beaten out of


    them?

    Quoted message said:

    Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be that the actual writings
    and "offical" rules of that group do not sancton those actions. So, I don't believe that all
    Christians are guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that all
    Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? Finally, it's not a matter
    of *can" the Muslims "bind together" with Christians and Jews on certain matters - they already
    are! Check out the writings in the various religious documents and see where they agree and
    disagree. Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for instance, are
    representative of the whole, and the same goes for Jews, Muslims, Republicans, etc.

    Mr. Varney you are beginning to parse words and changing the subject to a lunatic who shot a doctor
    at a Planned Parenthood Clinic and demon possession.

    I took a look at the human rights violations documented by Amnesty International and the UN
    concerning the Islamic Republic of Iran. Looking at the record here are my observations in the areas
    of their Compassion, Peace, Inter-Faith, and Women's Rights:

    Compassion - Bloodthirsty is more like it. Political dissenters, criminals,

    death sentences, executions, arrests, and detention according to the U.N. Recently four men were
    stoned to death for unspecified reasons.

    Peace - Kept internally by brutal savage force.

    Interfaith Tolerance - Serious problems here. The UN has recorded egregious violations against the
    Baha'i community of Iran, that country's second largest religious minority. The UN calls it "an
    unabated pattern of persecution". Same goes for Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and most especially
    those who denounce religion or are atheist.

    Women's Rights - Basically non-existent. I think each Islamic man can own up to five of them.
    Stoning is still practiced in cases of adultery. Most recently in Shiraz seven women were given 50
    lashes each for allegedly showing disrespect during the month of Ramadan.

    If there is anything that should be wiped off the face of the earth I would put Islamic Republics
    toward the top of the list. Thankfully the Islamic regime in Afghanistan is back in their caves
    where they belong, at least for the time being.

    skip

  18. Lawrence Turner said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised issues that you've
    completely dodged and to this moment have not acknowledged. Even after reading the previous
    messages again, I don't see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in your
    own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.

    I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I need you to really focus and
    try to speak English with me here and use clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions don't
    cut it in the sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you compose your
    response.

    Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!

    The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are continuing to lie in support of a
    ridiculously overpriced bicycle that you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone who
    has committed identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability to
    understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Main Entry: psy·cho·sis Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural
    psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: New Latin Date: 1847
    : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
    defective or lost contact with reality

    © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

    Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's kicked in, then read and
    respond my posts. Obviously whatever content is in these posts goes right over your head and you
    need help.

    Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a person. I've asked you many
    questions and exposed your lies and insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by changing
    the subject.

    I have done nothing but stick to the subject of who would buy a Bigha. Every time you try to change
    it, I have to bring in back. You haven't bought one nor are you going to buy one so just what do you
    have to say on the subject? Nothing except to continue to defend this overpriced bike and a person
    known to be a fraud and identity thief who claimed to have bought one.

    Quoted message said:


    Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.

    1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
    a) People who get the bike for free
    b) People who are full price customers

    Answered several times. In fact it was answered again in the message you just responded to, but you
    edited that part out. Now I wonder way you choose to do that. Another attempt to deceive or just
    part of your selective perception of reality?

    Quoted message said:


    We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please note that "whoever agrees
    with LLL on the merits of the product" is NOT an acceptable answer.

    This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve answers, and most people
    habitually answer questions without having to make serious psychological progress. I placed this
    question quite obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a question could be
    simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world, though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a way
    to avoid it.

    I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the non-babbling version.

    It doesn't matter how often you attack me for asking a simple question, you still look like a
    delusional fool.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha for
    the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.” Charles Manson

  19. "skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    "Larry Varney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    See, there's the problem: just what *are* "current day Muslim beliefs *and deeds*"? It's as
    much a mistake to say that the actions of a few reflect the beliefs of the many. Such as: is
    it the belief of Christians that doctors who perform abortions should be killed? How about
    that demons inhabit the bodies of people who won't behave, and that they should have them
    beaten out of


    them?

    Quoted message said:

    Just because someone says they are of a particular belief, it may be that the actual writings
    and "offical" rules of that group do not sancton those actions. So, I don't believe that all
    Christians are guilty of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? And I don't believe that all
    Christians support the idea of murdering abortion doctors. Do you? Finally, it's not a matter
    of *can" the Muslims "bind together" with Christians and Jews on certain matters - they
    already are! Check out the writings in the various religious documents and see where they
    agree and disagree. Don't fall for the idea that the murdering Christians, for instance, are
    representative of the whole, and the same goes for Jews, Muslims, Republicans, etc.

    Mr. Varney you are beginning to parse words and changing the subject to a lunatic who shot a
    doctor at a Planned Parenthood Clinic and demon possession.

    I took a look at the human rights violations documented by Amnesty International and the UN
    concerning the Islamic Republic of Iran. Looking at the record here are my observations in the
    areas of their Compassion, Peace, Inter-Faith, and Women's Rights:

    Compassion - Bloodthirsty is more like it. Political dissenters, criminals,

    Quoted message said:

    death sentences, executions, arrests, and detention according to the U.N. Recently four men were
    stoned to death for unspecified reasons.

    Peace - Kept internally by brutal savage force.

    Interfaith Tolerance - Serious problems here. The UN has recorded egregious violations against the
    Baha'i community of Iran, that country's second largest religious minority. The UN calls it "an
    unabated pattern of persecution". Same goes for Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, and most
    especially those who denounce religion or are atheist.

    Women's Rights - Basically non-existent. I think each Islamic man can own up to five of them.
    Stoning is still practiced in cases of adultery. Most recently in Shiraz seven women were given 50
    lashes each for allegedly showing disrespect during the month of Ramadan.

    If there is anything that should be wiped off the face of the earth I would put Islamic Republics
    toward the top of the list. Thankfully the Islamic regime in Afghanistan is back in their caves
    where they belong, at least for the time being.

    skip

    Skip, there is no limit to the number of women muslim men can own. I myself have 12 (joking of
    course)! What will you think of next?

    I'm glad you enjoy reading reports by the UN and Amnesty International. I'm sure you find these
    reports to be very informative, except when they report on Israel, in which case they are clearly
    biased, correct?

    In all honesty, many countries practice what is called "Sharia" or Islamic law, but their
    interpretations are ridiculous. True Islamic law makes serious convictions almost impossible. In the
    case of the adultering woman, at least 3 eyewitnesses must testify against her.

    prove. Capital punishment can be sentenced for many crimes, but the Qu'ran has many lines similar to
    the Bible's "let he without sin cast the first stone."

    I think the problem is "Holy-Men" such as Osama and the leaders in these countries truly regard
    themselves as without sin. They use their versions of Islamic law to keep themselves in power, and
    hold their adversaries down.

    Again, if muslims are so intolerant, why do we not go door to door trying to convert people? When
    have you seen an ad encouraging you to check out Islam? If God wanted to unite man under one nation
    and one religion he would. Diversity and how we deal with one another is a part of life's test.

    This is why as a leader, Muhammad did not force all of his followers to convert to Islam. Non-muslim
    residents paid a lower tax rate and did not have to serve in the military even though they enjoyed
    equal rights under the law.

    Christians tell me I will go to hell because I do not share their beliefs. I do not believe you will
    go to hell for being a non-muslim. I will be judged according to Islam and you will be judged
    according to your own standards - even if you are an atheist.

    I'm sorry you feel the way you do about Islam. It's sad that the actions of the few zealots will
    control the perception you have of the masses. But if you're interested in learning the truth I
    suggest you meet muslims in your area or read the Qu'ran for yourself (and while you're at it,
    please find me anything in there about 72 virgins for each martyr - it's just a myth). If you want
    to continue following your own foolish and bigoted views, be my guest as well. I for one would be
    happy to drop this subject.

  20. "Lorenzo L. Love" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Lawrence Turner said:
    Quoted message said:

    >My position is clearly outlined in all of my previous posts. I raised issues that you've
    >completely dodged and to this moment have not acknowledged. Even after reading the previous
    >messages again, I don't see where you can say I'm lying. Where have I lied? Specifically, in
    >your own words, using your own interpretation, tell me how I'm a liar.
    >
    >I understand your home is probably equipped with padded walls, but I need you to really focus
    >and try to speak English with me here and use clear logic. The babble talk and wild assumptions
    >don't cut it in the sane world. You may want to get your nurse or babysitter to help you
    >compose your response.
    >
    >Thank You. We may actually be making some progress here!

    The posts are all there for everyone to see. To see that you are continuing to lie in support of
    a ridiculously overpriced bicycle that you yourself would never buy and in defense of someone
    who has committed identity theft and fraud. Your poor grasp of reality and your inability to
    understand your own writing doesn't change anything. Get help.

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    Main Entry: psy·cho·sis Pronunciation: sI-'kO-s&s Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural
    psy·cho·ses /-"sEz/ Etymology: New Latin Date: 1847
    : fundamental mental derangement (as schizophrenia) characterized by
    defective or lost contact with reality

    © 1999 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

    Lorenzo - please take your Prozac, come back in a few hours after it's kicked in, then read and
    respond my posts. Obviously whatever content is in these posts goes right over your head and you
    need help.

    Again, I've not defended anything on this thread. Not a bike, nor a person. I've asked you many
    questions and exposed your lies and insanity. When called on it, you've responded only by
    changing the subject.

    I have done nothing but stick to the subject of who would buy a Bigha. Every time you try to
    change it, I have to bring in back. You haven't bought one nor are you going to buy one so just
    what do you have to say on the subject? Nothing except to continue to defend this overpriced bike
    and a person known to be a fraud and identity thief who claimed to have bought one.

    Quoted message said:


    Let me put a question out for you, pure and simple.

    1. Who gives the best and most objective reviews?
    a) People who get the bike for free
    b) People who are full price customers

    Answered several times. In fact it was answered again in the message you just responded to, but
    you edited that part out. Now I wonder way you choose to do that. Another attempt to deceive or
    just part of your selective perception of reality?

    Quoted message said:


    We've caught you coming down on both sides of the issue here. Please note that "whoever agrees
    with LLL on the merits of the product" is NOT an acceptable answer.

    This thing that I asked you is called a question. Questions deserve answers, and most people
    habitually answer questions without having to make serious psychological progress. I placed this
    question quite obviously so you would see it, and hopefully answer it. Such a question could be
    simply answered by pretty much anyone in the world, though I'm sure you'll miraculously find a
    way to avoid it.

    I look forward to your babbling response, though I'd prefer the non-babbling version.

    It doesn't matter how often you attack me for asking a simple question, you still look like a
    delusional fool.

    Is there anyone on this news group, who is not a known liar, who has actually purchased a Bigha
    for the full $3000.00 price?

    Lorenzo L. Love home.thegrid.net~lllove

    “In the old days being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody’s crazy.” Charles Manson

    Lauging out freeking loud!!!

    OK, you are officially insane. I could not have posed the question any clearer, and you still fail
    to provide an answer. What exactly is your condition called? Are you alergic to answering
    questions? Do you have a phobia of answering questions? What are the side-effects if you actually
    do answer a question?

    Show me one place in this thread where I defend either the bike or another person. I've done
    neither. The only puzzle I try to solve is why you insist on continuing with your Jihad against
    Bigha. You claim people who have not, or will not buy a Bigha have no right to an opinion on the
    bike. You also have not, and will not by the bike, yet it is ok for you to have a very strong
    opinion. Why are you entitled to form an opinion while no one else is? Are you God? Why is it anyone
    who asks Lorenzo the Almighty a question is deemed insane?

    Also, please show me where I've attacked you for asking your "has anyone bought a Bigha" question. I
    believe that to be a fair question. However, you also recommended psychological counseling and
    medication. Using your logic, you must have experience in these areas, otherwise you would not be
    entitled to an opinion on them, much less provide an recommendation.

    Can you please answer my questions in a straight-forward manner? If you actually answer a question
    and do not change the subject, we will all have something to be thankful for this Thanksgiving.

    Just to recap, here are some questions you can answer:

    1) What's the logic behind you Jihad against Bigha?
    2) Why are you entitled to an opinion on Bigha while nobody else is?
    3) Who provides the best reviews: paying customers or non-paying reviewers?
    4) Have you received counseling and have you taken medication for a mental condition?
    5) If no on 4, how do you justify recommending these things without trying them yourself? Doesn't
    this counter your logic on Bigha?
    6) Why do you never ever answer any questions?

    All are easy questions, the rest of the newsgroup will be elated if you manage to answer even one.

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