BIKE! Against War

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc archive' started by Jym Dyer, Mar 18, 2003.

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  1. Jym Dyer

    Jym Dyer Guest

    [From No-War-In-Iraq List]

    Bike! Against War
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    =v= First of all, some PDF fliers here to read, print, and distribute:

    http://www.scorcher.org/screed/changing.html#againstwar

    And let's not forget this classic:

    http://www.scorcher.org/screed/riding.html#notbombs

    =v= The fliers and/or idea can be adapted for your location. The gist of it all is below. <_Jym_>

    =============8<=============Cut-Here=============8<=============

    If and when the war starts: Bring your bike to downtown San Francisco, the next business day after
    war begins! We will provide a mobile, visible presence that says NO TO WAR! NO BUSINESS AS USUAL!!!

    OUR GOALS:
    * To give voice to popular opposition to war!
    * To non-violently disrupt the normal functioning of the Downtown area!
    * To provide mobile support to stationary direct actions planned throughout the city!

    **********

    First business day after war begins! BIKE AGAINST WAR!!!

    **********

    MEETING TIMES (approximate):

    7:00am Justin Herman Plaza

    8:00am Civic Center Plaza

    9:00pm Civic Center Plaza

    10:00pm Justin Herman Plaza

    ******************************

    ** THIS IS NOT CRITICAL MASS!!** We're not celebrating, and we're not talking about bike lanes! We
    are intent on disrupting the normal operation of a major city's financial nerve center. We'll slow
    traffic, support other activists, and ensure that a message is delivered to the war-makers who
    insist on dragging the world into war: WE DO NOT AGREE!!! WE DO NOT ACCEPT THIS WAR!! WE WILL NOT
    PARTICIPATE!!!

    Bring beater bikes! Bring friends! Bring food! Water! Bring noisemakers! Bring your anger! Bring
    your hope for peace!

    * EAST BAY PEOPLE: Do not count on ANY transportation to San Francisco being available the day of
    the war. Make arrangements to stay in the city the night before.

    ** A note to those who will say that once war is declared the time for protest is over: We believe
    resistance is more important than ever! History has shown that resistance during wartime restrains
    the hand of violent war planners, shortening war and limiting options (Nixon and Kissinger
    reportedly opted against the nuclear option for fear of chaos at home, for example). In a situation
    where our country has all but promised the use of nuclear weapons (!), we have a responsibility to
    impose severe social and financial costs on a political class that is out of control.

    FOR MORE INFO: http://www.ActAgainstWar.org/
     
    Tags:


  2. Raoul Duke

    Raoul Duke Guest

    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jym Dyer" <[email protected]>

    > OUR GOALS:
    > * To give voice to popular opposition to war!
    > * To non-violently disrupt the normal functioning of the Downtown area!
    > * To provide mobile support to stationary direct actions planned throughout the city!

    YOUR GOALS:
    * To give aid and comfort to the enemy during time of war.
    * To attempt to demoralize our troops during the most dangerous, stressful and difficult time of
    their lives.
    * To attempt to disrupt an already shaky economy during a time of crisis.

    Dave
     
  3. Alan

    Alan Guest

    That pesky First Amendment just keeps getting in the way, doesn't it?

    --

    alan

    Anyone who believes in a liberal media has never read the "Daily Oklahoman."

    "Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > YOUR GOALS:
    > * To give aid and comfort to the enemy during time of war.
    > * To attempt to demoralize our troops during the most dangerous, stressful and difficult time of
    > their lives.
    > * To attempt to disrupt an already shaky economy during a time of crisis.
     
  4. Rattrigg

    Rattrigg Guest

    Hmmm, I cant say I agree with your intent, but you do have the right to voice your opinion. I mean -
    its not like this is Iraq or anything.

    YOUR GOALS:
    * To give voice to popular opposition to war! Have fun. You have every right to protest peacefully.
    Good luck.

    * To non-violently disrupt the normal functioning of the Downtown area! This is not so cool.
    Basically since you dont agree with the situation you plan to be a pain in the butt to an entire
    city. Thus infringing on the rights of the rest of the town while you revel in your own right to
    protest. I think you may need to re-examine your motivation. Morally this idea seems a little
    foggy to me.

    * To provide mobile support to stationary direct actions planned throughout the city! See above.
     
  5. Bill Zaumen

    Bill Zaumen Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Raoul Duke" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jym Dyer" <[email protected]>
    >
    > > OUR GOALS:
    > > * To give voice to popular opposition to war!
    > > * To non-violently disrupt the normal functioning of the Downtown area!
    > > * To provide mobile support to stationary direct actions planned throughout the city!
    >
    > YOUR GOALS:
    > * To give aid and comfort to the enemy during time of war.
    > * To attempt to demoralize our troops during the most dangerous, stressful and difficult time of
    > their lives.
    > * To attempt to disrupt an already shaky economy during a time of crisis.
    >
    > Dave

    Actually, I think Jym's goals are to try to save the country from our emerging police state and have
    a little fun in the process. The idea that either our troops or Saddam would hear squat about some
    people riding bicycles around SF city streets (having little effect on congestion since everything
    is already gridlocked) boggles the mind.

    Some diplomacy, some "due diligence" by getting U.N. support, and other reasonable measures would
    provide far more real support for our troops than you could ever get from a court-appointed
    president, who seems to think John Wayne's acting provides some sort of role model as he goes off on
    some half-baked adventure (with no risk to himself.)

    Bill

    --
    As an anti-spam measure, my email address is only provided in a GIF file. Please see
    <http://home.pacbell.net/zaumen/email.gif>.
     
  6. "RattRigg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hmmm, I cant say I agree with your intent, but you do have the right to voice your opinion. I mean
    > - its not like this is Iraq or anything.
    >
    > YOUR GOALS:
    > * To give voice to popular opposition to war! Have fun. You have every right to protest
    > peacefully. Good luck.
    >
    > * To non-violently disrupt the normal functioning of the Downtown area! This is not so cool.
    > Basically since you dont agree with the situation you plan to be a pain in the butt to an entire
    > city. Thus infringing on the rights of the rest of the town while you revel in your own right to
    > protest. I think you may need to re-examine your motivation. Morally this idea seems a little
    > foggy to me.

    I suppose killing innocent people under the pretext of helping them behind motives of controlling
    the second largest oil reserves in the world is morally clear.

    >
    > * To provide mobile support to stationary direct actions planned throughout the city! See above.
     
  7. Ken -Lsqny)

    Ken -Lsqny) Guest

    On 18 Mar 2003 07:46:07 -0800, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> ejaculated:

    >NO TO WAR! NO BUSINESS AS USUAL!!!

    http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html


    Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    ____________________________________

    A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm

    Another reason: http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

    email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

    'All I really need to know about Islam, I learned on September 11.'

    - Julian D.
     
  8. Ken -Lsqny)

    Ken -Lsqny) Guest

    On 18 Mar 2003 19:10:12 -0800, [email protected] (RattRigg) ejaculated:

    >YOUR GOALS:
    >* To give voice to popular opposition to war! Have fun. You have every right to protest peacefully.
    > Good luck.

    March 18, 2003, 9:00 a.m. Seeing Red Spontaneous anti-American demonstrations? Think again.

    By Ion Mihai Pacepa On NRO

    Over the March 15-16 weekend there were simultaneous anti-American and pro-peace demonstrations
    around the world, with the largest in Athens and Moscow. It is significant that the headquarters of
    the Soviet-created World Peace Council (WPC) is now in Athens, and that its honorary chairman is
    still the same KGB asset, Romesh Chandra, who chaired this Cold War organization during the years
    when I was a Communist general. This current bashing of the U.S. makes me believe I am watching a
    revival of an old stage drama, the lines of which I know by heart. Back in the 1970Ss the drama
    featured that same Ramesh Chandra and consisted of the WPC's virulent offensive to counteract
    American efforts aimed at protecting the world against Communist expansion.

    In fact, the WPC Secretariat recently recognized that the WPC has "participated in or co-organized"
    the current worldwide anti-American demonstrations. On December 14, 2002, the WPC convened a meeting
    of its Communist-style Executive Committee and then issued an official communiqué stating, in
    vintage Soviet language: "The Bush administration is intensifying readiness for the unilateral
    attack on Iraq, and this unilateralism of hegemony is becoming the biggest threat to world peace."
    An international appeal published by the WPC Secretariat on the same day confirmed that the WPC had
    indeed been involved in organizing anti-American demonstrations in "USA, Great Britain, Florence,
    Prague and in many other European capitals, as well as in other countries." The WPC appeal called
    upon "the peoples and movements of the world aspiring to peace and justice to unite their voices and
    actions against the U.S. war on Iraq."

    The WPC was created by Moscow in the 1950s and had only one task: to portray the United States as
    being run by a "war-mongering government." To make it look like a Western organization, Moscow
    headquartered it in Paris, but in 1954 the French government accused the WPC of being a Soviet
    puppet and kicked it out of France. Therefore, its headquarters were moved to Soviet-occupied
    Vienna, and then to Prague when Austria became neutral. It is remarkable that, after the Soviet
    Union collapsed and the United States remained the only superpower, Romesh Chandra moved his WPC to
    Athens and focused its operations toward "waging a struggle against the New World Order." According
    to its current charter, adopted during a 1996 Peace Congress in Mexico, the WPC has now "broadened
    into a worldwide mass movement" whose task is to support "those people and liberation movements"
    fighting "against [American] imperialism."

    Back in the 1970s, when Moscow appointed Romesh Chandra to head the WPC, it introduced him to the
    world as being an "apolitical" Indian. In reality, Chandra was a member of the National Committee of
    the Communist Party of India, one of the foreign Communist parties most loyal to the Soviet Union at
    that time. Khrushchev himself approved a $50 million annual budget for the "new" WPC (the money was
    delivered by the KGB in the form of laundered cash dollars, in order to hide its Soviet origin), and
    tasked Chandra to focus the WPC effort on condemning the American intervention in Vietnam as a
    "murderous adventure" and to require all WPC national branches to initiate demonstrations around the
    world against America's imperialism and its war in Vietnam.

    Until 1978, when I left Romania for good, I managed the Romanian side of the WPC, whose operations
    implicated thousands of undercover Soviet-bloc intelligence officers and many other thousands of
    paid and voluntary Communist activists. By that time Chandra's WPC had reportedly collected 700
    million signatures on a "ban-the-American-atomic-bomb" petition that had been drafted in Moscow and
    adopted by a peace conference convened in Stockholm. In a 1981 article published in the Comintern
    journal entitled Problems of Peace and Socialism (the English translation of which was called World
    Marxist Review), Chandra wrote: "The struggle to curb the arms race has become a mass demonstration
    against the deployment of new U.S. missiles." Soon after that, Chandra and his WPC unleashed a
    worldwide offensive against the deployment by the United States of Pershing and Cruise missiles in
    Europe, and it organized "global campaigns" to protest the production of the neutron bomb announced
    by U.S. president Jimmy Carter and against the U.S. decision on "Star Wars," WPC's derisive term for
    the American strategic defense initiative (SDI).

    In 1851 Karl Marx issued his now famous dictum: "History always repeats itself, the first time as
    tragedy, and the second as farce." The new anti-American Axis Beijing-Moscow-Berlin-Paris is indeed
    a farcical effort to revive the anti-Americanism created by the WPC and its sponsors during the
    Cold War era.

    - General Ion Mihai Pacepa is the highest-ranking intelligence officer ever to have defected from
    the former Soviet bloc. He is currently finishing a new book, Red Roots: The origins of today's
    anti-Americanism.

    Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    ____________________________________

    A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm

    Another reason: http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

    email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

    'All I really need to know about Islam, I learned on September 11.'

    - Julian D.
     
  9. "Ken [NY)" <[email protected]_text> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 18 Mar 2003 07:46:07 -0800, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> ejaculated:
    >
    > >NO TO WAR! NO BUSINESS AS USUAL!!!
    >
    > http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
    >
    >

    Nice scary pictures. No one said Hussain isn't a big problem. But killing innocent people and
    obliverating a country is not the answer. If you go and take pictures of what our bombs and
    radioactive depleted uranium have done to Iraq and Afghanistan you'll get just as scary of pictures,
    but more of them. If you take pictures of what we're about to do it's absolutely disgusting and on a
    much larger scale. The death tolls for Innocent Iraqis from the Gulf war are now up to 1.2 million
    (half of which are children). If the US wants to point a finger at Hussain remember there are three
    pointing back at us.

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    > ____________________________________
    >
    > A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm

    The Trade towers have nothing to do with the Twinn Towers ands even if it did it would not justify
    mass destruction as retaliation. You are demonstrating the same mindset as those you despise.

    >
    > Another reason: http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
    >
    > email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm
    >
    > 'All I really need to know about Islam, I learned on September 11.'
    >
    > - Julian D.

    Racism won't get you very far. Violence begets violence. The only way to end it, is to step out of
    the circle.
     
  10. In ba.bicycles Ken [NY) <[email protected]_text> wrote:
    > March 18, 2003, 9:00 a.m. Seeing Red Spontaneous anti-American demonstrations? Think again.

    > Over the March 15-16 weekend there were simultaneous anti-American and pro-peace demonstrations
    > around the world, with the largest in Athens and Moscow. It is significant that the headquarters
    > of the Soviet-created World Peace Council (WPC) is now in Athens, ...

    > In fact, the WPC Secretariat recently recognized that the WPC has "participated in or
    > co-organized" the current worldwide anti-American demonstrations.

    So basically, some ridiculous outdated Cold War-era front organization that probably has three
    staffers and a flyblown office with a Ditto machine is trying to piggyback by claiming credit for
    organizing worldwide demonstrations, and the only people they're fooling are you and the author of
    this article.

    Followups to ba.bicycles.
     
  11. Doug Haxton

    Doug Haxton Guest

    On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:25:10 -0800, "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Ken [NY)" <[email protected]_text> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> On 18 Mar 2003 07:46:07 -0800, Jym Dyer <[email protected]> ejaculated:
    >>
    >> >NO TO WAR! NO BUSINESS AS USUAL!!!
    >>
    >> http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Nice scary pictures. No one said Hussain isn't a big problem. But killing innocent people and
    >obliverating a country is not the answer. If you go and take pictures of what our bombs and
    >radioactive depleted uranium

    Depleted uranium isn't particularly radioactive.

    Doug
     
  12. Ken -Lsqny)

    Ken -Lsqny) Guest

    On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:25:10 -0800, "one of the six billion" <[email protected]>
    ejaculated:

    >and radioactive depleted uranium

    Isn't that an oxymoron?

    Ken (NY) Chairman, Department Of Redundancy Department
    ____________________________________

    A reminder: Why we are fighting: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/AmericaAttacked.htm

    Another reason: http://www.kdp.pp.se/chemical.html

    email: http://www.geocities.com/bluesguy68/email.htm

    "If you have faith in the United Nations to do the right thing keep this in mind, they have Libya
    heading the Committee on Human Rights and Iraq heading the Global Disarmament Committee. Do your own
    math here." -Dennis Miller
     
  13. Ken,

    Depleted uranium is the left-over from refining uranium with the naturally occurring mixture of
    isotopes (only .72 percent of which is the fissionable 235U). The fissionable 235U is used for
    reactors and explosives and the remaining 238U is just a metal. It's only mildly radioactive--it's
    half-life is ten times that of 235U (it's an alpha emitter, so it's only a health problem if it gets
    inside your body somehow).

    DU is used for purposes where a very dense metal is desired.

    From a chemical standpoint (irrespective of isotopic variation), Uranium has a strong oxygen
    affinity: "Metallic uranium tarnishes in air and when finely divided ignites spontaneously."

    Randy

    Ken [NY) wrote:
    > On Wed, 19 Mar 2003 16:25:10 -0800, "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> and radioactive depleted uranium
    >
    >
    > Isn't that an oxymoron?
    >
    > Ken
     
  14. Rattrigg

    Rattrigg Guest

    > I suppose killing innocent people under the pretext of helping them behind motives of controlling
    > the second largest oil reserves in the world is morally clear.
    >

    Killing innocent people is not the goal of the military action in Iraq, just a sad consequence. And
    Id say the fault lies with the Iraqi dictator who brought this on his people by his refusal to
    comply with the UN resolutions.

    Its sad that this fact has to be pointed out. If Saddam had complied at any time in the past 10 or
    so years, he'd be sitting in his palace right now and the big bad USA couldnt touch him.

    Instead he chose to put his own ego ahead of the welfare of his country.

    On the other hand disrupting the city is the stated goal of your protest. You dont even try to
    pretend that your goal is to make your point, or to get the story out. In fact, the war in Iraq is
    simply being used as an excuse to act lke spoiled children.

    I cant decide if your "protest" is meant to be punishment for the
    vast majority of the people who live there and actually dare to be
    supportive of the war, or if its just a collective temper tantrum.
     
  15. "RattRigg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > I suppose killing innocent people under the pretext of helping them
    behind
    > > motives of controlling the second largest oil reserves in the world is morally clear.
    > >
    >
    > Killing innocent people is not the goal of the military action in Iraq, just a sad consequence.

    > And Id say the fault lies with the Iraqi dictator who brought this on his people by his refusal to
    > comply with the UN resolutions.

    Human Rights is not the goal of this ILLEGAL UNPROVOKED WAR. The US can't cause magnitudes greater
    death and destruction than what Sadam has and call that concern for human rights. Protection of the
    US is not the goal of this WAR either. Iraq does not represent a threat to the US. The Gulf war left
    them with nothing, and the last 12 years of sanctions finished off any little bit that was left.
    Besides, guess where any of the weapons in question (which of those that weren't destroyed in the
    Gulf war are of little consequence anyway to the US's $340+ billion annual military expenditure).
    The threat that the Bush administration keeps propagandizing is non-existent. Even if it were, it is
    not only immoral but illegal to go to war unprovoked!

    >
    > Its sad that this fact has to be pointed out.

    What is sad is the amount of US citizens that have fallen for such preposterous propaganda. Even
    sadder is the amount of people that have been conditioned into basically cheering on as
    entertainment the death and destruction of innocent human lives for an agenda that is all about
    money, oil and power.

    > If Saddam had complied at any time in the past 10 or so years, he'd be sitting in his palace right
    > now and the big bad USA couldnt touch him.
    >
    > Instead he chose to put his own ego ahead of the welfare of his country.

    The US has demonstrated time and time again they are not interested in human rights nor the safety
    of its own people. Such concerns are only displayed when such issues can be used to gain support for
    something in their own interests.

    >
    > On the other hand disrupting the city is the stated goal of your protest. You dont even try to
    > pretend that your goal is to make your point, or to get the story out. In fact, the war in Iraq
    > is simply being used as an excuse to act lke spoiled children.

    I have attended the past 4 very large legal, organized, peaceful marches. Each one had proper
    permits (which cost between $50,000 and $85,000). The goal of those marches as stated and as
    materialized was education, solidarity and a show of the will of the people that is protected by the
    constitution. The media in each and every case failed to give it anywhere near the same light as the
    literal lies they have been saturating the airwaves with for months.

    You must be speaking about today's civil disobedience actions. They came only after the most
    unspeakable travesty of justice to the people of the US and the world. Those behind the war have
    made a shamble of not only human rights but of democracy and world diplomacy as well. The actions of
    today are minor compared to what motivated them. They are also the precise actions advocated to
    create peaceful change by some of the greatest people in history. The reality of today's events are
    that unspeakable levels of violence and anger have been perpetrated by the police not by the people.
    (of course mass media reports will portray the exact opposite).

    >
    > I cant decide if your "protest" is meant to be punishment for the
    > vast majority of the people who live there and actually dare to be
    > supportive of the war, or if its just a collective temper tantrum.

    It is currently a "majority" of people that have fallen prey to the misrepresented agenda of those
    behind this war, however it is not a "vast majority".

    Rest assured that the inconvenience of a day of lost productivity is small compared to the killing
    and maiming we are doing right now. Even for those that believe the war is just and that the
    "collateral damage" (innocent human bloodshed) is an unavoidable consequence, one would think that
    even a semblence of reverence for life would allow them to go beyond the impatience of getting on
    with business as usual.
     
  16. Kyler Laird

    Kyler Laird Guest

    [email protected] (RattRigg) writes:

    >And Id say the fault lies with the Iraqi dictator who brought this on his people by his refusal to
    >comply with the UN resolutions.

    So...you would support military action against any leader who refuses to comply with UN resolutions?

    --kyler
     
  17. Rattrigg

    Rattrigg Guest

    >>It is currently a "majority" of people that have fallen prey to the misrepresented agenda of those
    >>behind this war, however it is not a
    "vast
    >>majority".

    It is a vast majority. Polls place support of the action in Iraq at 70% or better. Thats a pretty
    big margin.

    As far as having fallen prey to a misrepresented agenda, Id say check your mirror.
     
  18. "RattRigg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >>It is currently a "majority" of people that have fallen prey to the misrepresented agenda of
    > >>those behind this war, however it is not a
    > "vast
    > >>majority".
    >
    > It is a vast majority. Polls place support of the action in Iraq at 70% or better. Thats a pretty
    > big margin.

    The polls I just saw on msnbc said 62% in favor and 35% against. That's almost 100 million US
    citizens that don't want an illegal unjust unprovoked war. When you take into account the rest of
    the world the situation reverses to the vast majority of the world opposing this war.

    >
    > As far as having fallen prey to a misrepresented agenda, Id say check your mirror.

    My mirror shows someone who knows violence does not bring peace. Someone who knows that control of
    that part of the world means control of the worlds oil supply. Someone who knows that this
    administration has deep ties to big oil. Someone who knows that the US is guilty of as many and as
    nasty of human rights violations as the so called enemy. Someone who knows that completely
    devastating a country and its innocent people will increase the threat of terrorism. Someone who
    knows that spending billions of dollars to destroy and then rebuild a country while we face record
    levels of deficit is theft on top of murder. Someone who knows that all this ends with Halliburton
    and other's in the 'ol boy network gaining contracts and the US in control of Southeast Asia and
    Russia's oil spigot.

    Here's a few perspectives from Americans currently in Iraq:
    http://www.greenjon.com/shield/TruthAndLies.htm
     
  19. Bosaci

    Bosaci Guest

    "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "RattRigg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > >>It is currently a "majority" of people that have fallen prey to the misrepresented agenda of
    > > >>those behind this war, however it is not a
    > > "vast
    > > >>majority".
    > >
    > > It is a vast majority. Polls place support of the action in Iraq at 70% or better. Thats a
    > > pretty big margin.
    >
    > The polls I just saw on msnbc said 62% in favor and 35% against. That's almost 100 million US
    > citizens that don't want an illegal unjust
    unprovoked
    > war. When you take into account the rest of the world the situation reverses to the vast majority
    > of the world opposing this war.

    but weren't you getting tired of the same old shit on TV every night, now at least we can watch a
    real action show!

    > > As far as having fallen prey to a misrepresented agenda, Id say check your mirror.

    > My mirror shows someone who knows violence does not bring peace.

    Probably also shows a brain dead asshole! <G
     
  20. "one of the six billion" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    |
    | Here's a few perspectives from Americans currently in Iraq:
    | http://www.greenjon.com/shield/TruthAndLies.htm

    Here's another perspective, from some Americans that just escaped from Iraq:

    "A group of American anti-war demonstrators who came to Iraq with Japanese human shield volunteers
    made it across the border today with 14 hours of uncensored video, all shot without Iraqi government
    minders present. Kenneth Joseph, a young American pastor with the Assyrian Church of the East, told
    UPI the trip "had shocked me back to reality." Some of the Iraqis he interviewed on camera "told me
    they would commit suicide if American bombing didn't start. They were willing to see their homes
    demolished to gain their freedom from Saddam's bloody tyranny. They convinced me that Saddam was a
    monster the likes of which the world had not seen since Stalin and Hitler. He and his sons are sick
    sadists. Their tales of slow torture and killing made me ill, such as people put in a huge shredder
    for plastic products, feet first so they could hear their screams as bodies got chewed up from foot
    to head." http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030321-023627-5923r
     
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