Buying a powermeter-Garmin Vector, Stages, PowerTap

[mattbuell]

Hey guys what's up, I'm new here so I apologize if I breech any etiquette.

So I'm 19 and have plans of doing IM 70.3 Syracuse in 2015 and IM Lake Placid in 2016 (or at least attempting haha) and the first step of my training is to start training with a powermeter. I have plans of getting a Cervelo p3 2015 model assuming it comes out before this upcoming May, but for now I just plan on using my old trek to train for the winter. So basically I would like a power meter that is easy to switch between the two (because I do race rode as well for a college team), within my budget (1600$ or below), has good compatibility (like crank wise etc.), and durable. I have an edge 800 so comp wise I'm good and software compatibility shouldn't be an issue.

So my three options are....

The Garmin Vectors-Great because they are just pedals, easy to switch between two bikes with the right tools, not a lot of weight. And not super expensive. (a little more expense than I'd like though). However I keep reading articles about bad compatibility with some cranks and that the little pods can break off if the pedal hits the ground....which would really p/o me. Not to mention you need need a torque wrench or whatever to set them up.

Stages-This would honestly be a great choice if they made these cranks in Rotors. I'm getting a cervelo so all of the cranks are rotors I'm pretty sure. I don't really feel like swapping out my crankset and all of that ****. I just love how they're just tucked into the side of the crank though and add almost no weight to the bike. They seem like they would have no durability issues, not to mention they're like 1000$ or less. But then there would be the whole swapping from bike to bike problem. Is it possible to have mismatched cranks haha? Like one rotor and one ultegra with Stages? I'm assuming no but I just thought I'd ask.

PowerTap-These seem like a great option but I feel like this would be a total pain to install. I could just buy the 1000$ wheel set, throw a cassette on the back and go for it...but then I would have to make sure everything on both bikes are compatible....I highly doubt it would be, and when I get my carbon wheels that would be a ***** to set up too and I would have to buy ANOTHER hub. It just seems way to complicated to me.

Basically I'm really leaning towards the Vectors, however I've heard so many reviews where people love them and others where people have been having problems with them. If anyone has Vectors and could give me their input that'd be great. If anyone has another type of power meter that they absolutely love let me know. And if anyone has any advice for me on my decision please don't hesitate to give your input. Thanks guys!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

If you have not already done so, go to DC Rainmaker's website and read his reviews and recommendations. He's THE electronic toy God of cycling. He offers so good advice on functionality, portability, etc. http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/09/power-buyers-edition.html

 

[mattbuell]

Awesome, thanks man I appreciate it. I can tell buy the five garmin edges strapped onto one bike haha.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Yeah, DC Rainmaker is the go-to guy for all things training gizmo related.

A pair of Power Tap rear wheels or even two pairs of PT wheel sets is cheaper than some of the more pricey options (<cough> SRM) out there.

The Stages crank arm may be the most easily switchable from bike to bike 'if' you run the same crank BB setup. And a pair of Stages arms is still not wildly expensive.

I only know one guy on Garmin pedals and he seems to like them. I'm not thrilled with blowing that kind of money on a pedal system built around a Wellgo pedal, but like DC says, $200 out-of-pocket should get a broken Vector system back in the game. Still, they are not really all that easily swapped from bike to bike.

 

[maydog]

If you want an indoor training rig with power on the cheap, wired powertap units are pretty inexpensive and will give you all the same data.

I have never considered a power tap wheelset a pain to set up. I purchased a used wired SL rear wheel with two harnesses and regularly swap between my road and tri bikes - both 10 speeds. No tools are required, it takes a minute maybe.

I would have to imagine that swapping a wireless powertap wheel between bikes is even easier. You don't really need a road specific or tri specific powertap build. You can buy an aero disc cover from wheelbuilder for about $100 which looks pretty nice and works as well as any other disc.

Stages: no experience.

Vectors: I met one person with them and she liked them, but they were only a few weeks old. Swapping pedals from bike to bike is not a huge deal, but does require tools. You should buy a torque wrench and learn to use it anyway. I'd question the durability of the pedals. I use wellgo pedals a lot, and they tend to wear out fairly quick and require servicing (greasing the bearings) a few times a season.

 

[kopride]

The cheapest option indoors is a KK fluid trainer, a rear pick up speedometer and a conversion table from mph to W. The wired PT is a good deal, and you can pick up a cheap used 2.4PT as well. Good luck with your training.

 

[AyeYo]

Originally Posted by kopride

The cheapest option indoors is a KK fluid trainer, a rear pick up speedometer and a conversion table from mph to W. The wired PT is a good deal, and you can pick up a cheap used 2.4PT as well.

Good luck with your training.

This.

Use a program like Trainer Road and you don't even need the conversion table, you get real-time, real power readings that are accurate and repeatable enough to train with.

 

[ITKCycling]

Also check out these two comparative reviews I posted recently which integrate individual power meter performance tests from DC Rainmaker, Slowtwitch and BikeReview and add in my cost and compatibility analyses under different bike, wheelset and chainring setup combinations for both current and upgrade scenarios

http://intheknowcycling.com/2014/07/25/best-power-meter-road-cycling-1/
http://intheknowcycling.com/2014/08/04/best-power-meter-road-cycling-2/

From what I understand of your situation, unless you have some reason to stay with the ROTOR crankset, you could change it out for a Stages PM and Ultegra chainset combo ($1100 for the combination) or an Stages PM/DuraAce chainset combo ($1350) both of which would be less than the Vector $1500 cost after rebate. You could probably sell the new ROTOR crankset to lower you net cost further. You'd get all the benefits of the Stages transferability with your Trek (Shimano chainset I assume?) with this approach.

The PowerTap would be a better option from a net cost standpoint only if you order your rear wheel with the PT built in and from a transferability standpoint only if you plan to train and race with the same rear wheel most of the time on your P3. But you might lose out on having a PM this fall/winter for training as I assume you wouldn't order that wheel until you got your 2015 P3. You might consider having the PT built in anyway as you'd probably find the Mavic or 3T wheels that come with the P3 (or whatever they put on as stock wheels on the 2015) don't perform to the level you want. The net cost to add a PT to a carbon wheelset is only about $250 (you're paying the net of the PT minus the cost of the hub they would have built in originally). You might even want to consider ordering the P3 frame and choose your wheelset and groupset to have the bike built up for you with whatever you want to add in for those components to save on the things you aren't going to want anyway and give you the most flexibility.

FYI, ROTOR has come out with a new left only crank arm power meter to add to their left and right armed one but its pricey and the L/R one didn't fare too well under initial testing. They first tested their left only crank on the pro circuit at the TdF 2014 but I haven't seen any independent tests done on it yet. There's also the Eurobike trade-show at the end of the month and hopefully we'll see some further price decreases and perhaps something new on the long overdue Brim Brothers cleat-based power meter which could change the scene further.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Good info, ITKCycling.

 

[steve]

What do people think of stages now it's been out for a while?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Steve, not necessarily Stages, but just some sort of related power meter device data here:

Go to STRAVA and search for a user named Brian Toone. He's an avid insane!!!!1one!!! Cat. 1 (one step below Pro level rider here in the States) racing cyclist with something like 2 MILLION feet of vertical this year, a state road race champion (IIRC he got up at 2 AM and rode about 100 miles to the race, won the damned race and then rode the 100 miles back home! Yes, he's nutz!). And the next day he went out and won a Campagnolo Grand Fondo!

First, just read about his epic cycling rides in the American Eastern mountains and get a feel for his qualifications to address the bike electronic toys area...he is some sort of college professor (although I don't see how he has 5 minutes a month to work what with all the training and racing he does).

He is certainly not DC Rainmaker, but he is a iBike Newton and Polar user and can address the shortcomings of Garmin accurately and without bias. I put stock in what Brian Toone says...he has many, many miles of testing and observation to back up his writings about power meters, altimeters, GPS, etc. He publishes his ride files (power numbers included...check out that road race championship ride! The guy makes awesome Watts!)

http://www.strava.com/athletes/2919

http://toonecycling.wordpress.com/2011/04/21/equipment-update-ibike-dash-power-meter-wheels-and-tires-galore/

http://toonecycling.wordpress.com/

It will take some digging thru his files to find the power meter comments, but trust me...reading about this cat is time well spent. He is inspirational, if nothing else.

The guy qualified for RAAM, a 24-hour qualifier, in only 23 hours!

 

[AyeYo]

That guy's weekly mileages are INSANE. How does he find time to work a normal job and cycle for almost 40 hours per week?? He has FORTY SIX pages of KOMs... jesus.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

AyeYo...you're just scratching the surface. Yes...nucking futz! Insane mileage, but also completely batshit crazoid climbing. Day after day. Month after month. He goes out and does one mountain after the other. The Appalachian Mountains may not offer summits as high as the Rockies, but they are damned steep and come at you one leg-killing wall after another. They are his playground.

He rode to his family's vacation destination...something like 300+ miles with a calf swollen twice the size of the other one by a bee sting reaction (pictures on STRAVA and his blog site). He rides dirt mountain bike trails/fire roads/ATV tracks on his Madone...with carbon wheels. Not skerred of descending without disco brakes like some folks.

Typical epic effort from Toone:

516.8mi
Distance

• 30:05:39 Moving Time
• 36,293ft Elevation
• 630 Epic Suffer Score

I'm pretty sure Toone doesn't work much. It's impossible to train like that and work even part time at a 'normal' job. Or a real job. I have known a couple of pro's or semi-pro's that were...uh...paid to not show up at a 'job' where they had a title, but no work to go with that job description. I suspect this may be the case here, but you never know.

As far as power meters go, he's pretty sold on the iBike Newton. He knows the strengths and weaknesses of Garmin units and like DC Rainmaker, Toone uses multiple electronic boxes simultaneously. I guess he's not worried about weight, aerodynamics, cost or finding the time to review and report on them!

 

[AyeYo]

That's beyond insane. How is that even possible?? His moving time on that ride is 30 hours with a total elapsed time of only 32.5 hours. He did that ride with only two and a half hours worth of break time?

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB

It will take some digging thru his files to find the power meter comments,

On his Strava profile for a 51 mile ride done a couple days ago (10/6/14) he mentions his Quarq battery being dead. I am guessing that is his primary power meter.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

Quote by AyeYo:
"He did that ride with only two and a half hours worth of break time?"

Probably. He's qualified for RAAM 2015 so that was just a warm-up ride for him.