Clipless pedals: lets beat a dead horse...

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Destroy, Aug 9, 2003.

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  1. Destroy

    Destroy Guest

    ...but slightly differently.

    I've been riding my FS bike with toe clips and straps which are real easy to slip out of.

    I had planned on upgrading to clipless as I got use to the bike BUT during this learning time most
    of my riding has changed from XC/minor bump single track to more all mountain/minor
    freeride/technical type riding.

    Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to falling
    much more than I use to.

    In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup. Its only the pure XC
    type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this? And I'm guess its cause clipless
    are, for lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's abilities and balance too much during
    on the edge maneuvers. (Heh, I'd like to see BMX riders using clipless, HA!)

    I'm never used or tried clipless so I really have no clue as to what they feel like. I do downhill
    ski very well so if its anything similar to that 'locked in a binding' type feel I know what thats
    like. I really don't feel like shelling out $200 for some decent clipless pedals and shoes if I'm
    not going to put them to good use most of the time.

    I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?
     
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  2. Voodoo

    Voodoo Guest

    "Destroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > ...but slightly differently.
    >
    > I've been riding my FS bike with toe clips and straps which are real easy to slip out of.
    >
    > I had planned on upgrading to clipless as I got use to the bike BUT during this learning time most
    > of my riding has changed from XC/minor bump single track to more all mountain/minor
    > freeride/technical type
    riding.
    >
    > Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to
    > falling much more than I use to.
    >
    > In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup. Its only the pure XC
    > type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this? And I'm guess its cause
    > clipless are, for lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's abilities and balance too
    > much during on the edge maneuvers. (Heh, I'd like to see BMX riders using clipless, HA!)
    >
    > I'm never used or tried clipless so I really have no clue as to what they feel like. I do downhill
    > ski very well so if its anything similar to that 'locked in a binding' type feel I know what thats
    > like. I really don't feel like shelling out $200 for some decent clipless pedals and shoes if I'm
    > not going to put them to good use most of the time.
    >
    > I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    > make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?
    >
    I like'em, and would never go without. I'm pretty much just a cross country rider, but do get into
    technical stuff sometimes that requires me to have to bail/dab. I've never had a problem getting out
    of them when needed. The worst fall I ever had was when I was still using platform pedals. My right
    foot slipped off while riding a steep rutted downhill. It was not pretty.

    There are clipless pedals that incorporate platforms wich may interest you. One that comes to mind
    is offered by Crank Brothers.
     
  3. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    Destroy wrote:
    > ...but slightly differently.
    >
    > I've been riding my FS bike with toe clips and straps which are real easy to slip out of.
    >
    > I had planned on upgrading to clipless as I got use to the bike BUT during this learning time most
    > of my riding has changed from XC/minor bump single track to more all mountain/minor
    > freeride/technical type riding.
    >
    > Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to
    > falling much more than I use to.

    This is a question that you need to answer for yourself. As I'm sure you're no doubt aware, there is
    a trade-off between the two. Clipless (combined with cycling shoes) offer greater pedalling
    efficiency, but that comes at the cost of freedom.

    > In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup. Its only the pure XC
    > type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this?

    You don't see 'freeriders' in magazines using clipless, but then you don't need cycling efficiency
    when you're falling off a building. As for only 'pure XC' riders using clipless, that's utter tosh.
    If you took a poll here, everybody, with a couple of notable exceptions, uses clipless. Why? Because
    it makes riding easier - more of your effort goes directly in to pedalling the bike forward, and
    they're easy enough to clip out of in technical sections that it's not a problems. However, these
    issues are less important if you're just going downhill or through the air.

    And I'm guess its cause clipless are, for
    > lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's abilities and balance too much during on the
    > edge maneuvers. (Heh, I'd like to see BMX riders using clipless, HA!)

    Take a look at AA pro motos and then reiterate that statement. All of the top racers use clipless
    (except Neal Wood).

    > I'm never used or tried clipless so I really have no clue as to what they feel like. I do
    > downhill ski very well so if its anything similar to that 'locked in a binding' type feel I know
    > what thats like.

    A bit, but you have a lot more flexibility. Your feet can twist and roll from side to side within
    certain degrees, and unclipping is a lot easier. So in summary, it's actually nothing like ski
    bindings :p

    I really
    > don't feel like shelling out $200 for some decent clipless pedals and shoes if I'm not going to
    > put them to good use most of the time.

    Try something cheaper first then. You can pick up a decent set up for less than $100.

    > I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    > make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?

    Work out what you're going to do and make a decision based on that. If you have no intention of
    riding uphills ever again, then platforms are the way to go. Apart from that, you're in a grey area
    that comes down to personal preference.

    Take Spademan. He's a bmxer who tried several versions of clipless and couldn't get on with them. He
    rides XC, but uses platforms.

    Then there's me. I'm a bmxer too, but feel more than comfortable in clipless on a mtb. I'll happily
    go jumping or do large drops in clipless (although anything over about 8 foot or so, I'd use
    platforms).

    Have a look at clipless with platforms: Shimano 646, Time Z and Crank Bros platform. Not very
    comfortable in just shoes, but might offer the compromise you're looking for.

    Pays yers money, takes yers choice...
     
  4. Jack

    Jack Guest

    "Destroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > ...but slightly differently.
    >
    > I've been riding my FS bike with toe clips and straps which are real easy to slip out of.
    >
    > I had planned on upgrading to clipless as I got use to the bike BUT during this learning time most
    > of my riding has changed from XC/minor bump single track to more all mountain/minor
    > freeride/technical type
    riding.
    >
    > Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to
    > falling much more than I use to.
    >
    > In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup. Its only the pure XC
    > type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this? And I'm guess its cause
    > clipless are, for lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's abilities and balance too
    > much during on the edge maneuvers. (Heh, I'd like to see BMX riders using clipless, HA!)
    >
    > I'm never used or tried clipless so I really have no clue as to what they feel like. I do downhill
    > ski very well so if its anything similar to that 'locked in a binding' type feel I know what thats
    > like. I really don't feel like shelling out $200 for some decent clipless pedals and shoes if I'm
    > not going to put them to good use most of the time.
    >
    > I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    > make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?

    I have clipless and I only use them for racing. I always use flats when I ride for fun. I think a
    lot of people jump into clipless too fast without learning some basic skills with flats.

    http://www.mountainbike.com/mbhelp/skills/1101_flats.shtml
     
  5. Marty

    Marty Guest

    "Destroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > ...but slightly differently.
    >
    > I've been riding my FS bike with toe clips and straps which are real easy to slip out of.
    >
    > I had planned on upgrading to clipless as I got use to the bike BUT during this learning time most
    > of my riding has changed from XC/minor bump single track to more all mountain/minor
    > freeride/technical type
    riding.
    >
    > Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to
    > falling much more than I use to.
    >
    > In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup. Its only the pure XC
    > type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this? And I'm guess its cause
    > clipless are, for lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's abilities and balance too
    > much during on the edge maneuvers. (Heh, I'd like to see BMX riders using clipless, HA!)
    >
    > I'm never used or tried clipless so I really have no clue as to what they feel like. I do downhill
    > ski very well so if its anything similar to that 'locked in a binding' type feel I know what thats
    > like. I really don't feel like shelling out $200 for some decent clipless pedals and shoes if I'm
    > not going to put them to good use most of the time.
    >
    > I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    > make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?
    >

    When I ride flats I feel like I'm out of touch with the bike and the ride. I know that there are
    many people who don't like to be clipped in but I feel like I have more control. Another point here
    is that many times I ride in wet/damp conditions. Before I had clipless my foot slipped off the
    pedals quite a bit. Once though it slipped to the front on the way down a steep section. The chain
    ring bit the back of my calf. That left a mark.

    Marty
     
  6. bomba says:

    >If you took a poll here, everybody, with a couple of notable exceptions, uses clipless.

    "A couple of notable exceptions" - damned with faint praise again!

    Ah, well, such is life......

    Steve
     
  7. On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 22:30:58 +0000, Stephen Baker did issue forth:

    > bomba says:
    >
    >>If you took a poll here, everybody, with a couple of notable exceptions, uses clipless.
    >
    > "A couple of notable exceptions" - damned with faint praise again!

    Nah, you need half-clips.

    Huw aRe throwing in odd-ball opinions in Rimmer's absence
     
  8. The Ogre

    The Ogre Guest

    Destroy <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > ...but slightly differently.

    > Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to
    > falling much more than I use to.
    >
    > In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup.

    Some of the magazines I read the women use strap ons and chase each other around the room with bull
    whips. I haven't met any that do this in person. Reality doesn't necessarily reflect what you see in
    magazines.

    > Its only the pure XC type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this?

    What exactally is a "pure XC type" rider? This seems to be just about everyone I know and ride with.
    I figure when it comes to Mountain Biking there is XC which means you go up and down hill, or
    Downhill where you get dropped off at the top.

    > And I'm guess its cause clipless are, for lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's
    > abilities and balance too much during on the edge maneuvers.

    Matter of opinion. Downhill racers use platforms, I guess it depends on what terrain you are riding.
    I have ridden with a lot of people who have put a lot of miles on their bikes over some pretty rough
    stuff that would disagree with your guess.

    > I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    > make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?

    You are the only one who can answer that. Unfortunately the only way to know is to buy the shoes.
    Maybe you can borrow someones pedals? SPD pedals are a cheap way to get into clipless though, they
    can be had for < $40 and you can generally find a cheap pair of shoes for less than $30. If you
    decide you like them then you can start looking at the $200 stuff.

    -- The Ogre http://ogrehut.net
     
  9. John Harlow

    John Harlow Guest

    > I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    > make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?

    Generally, use flat pedals when...
    (a) you can't be clipped in for stunts (BMX)
    (b) it will be significantly advantageous to not be attached to the bike in the event of a
    mishap (DH)
    (c) you just don't want to (fear, no money, lazy etc)

    Otherwise the advantages of clipless warrant their use. There will be a learning curve; you will
    fall some, and it will pass.
     
  10. I am pretty new to the mountain biking scene as well. I just purchased my first "real" bike this
    spring and have ridden approx 300 miles thus far.

    I ride a combination of paved trails (with my wife) and some pretty rough singletracks (by myself
    and with some guys from work). I bought my clipless setup approx 100 miles into the year.

    At first, I figured the fact that i could pull up on my pedals as well as push down would be the
    best reason for the clipless. Now that I have ridden them for awhile, I would honestly say that
    safety is my primary reason for suggesting them. With the clipless pedals I don't have to even
    consider my foot slipping off the pedals on a rough decent.

    I also enjoy being able to more easily jump over small trees and roots because I can hop up with my
    legs and pull my back tire easily off the ground being connected to my bike.

    Don't get me wrong, clipless are not for everyone but I would never go back to standard pedals after
    using them for awhile. I took a few tumbles at first simply because I forgot to clipout, but after a
    few times you get used to it and it becomes a standard part of your muscle memory (Heck, when I was
    a rid I kept falling off my bike on flat land, and that never happens anymore).

    I bought I set of Shimano 515's (approx $50 pedals) and a set of shoes for $70. All in all, about
    $120, and only a few bruises :)

    So, even though I am not a "hardcore" off-rider, I do enjoy riding with clipless pedals.

    "Destroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > ...but slightly differently.
    >
    > I've been riding my FS bike with toe clips and straps which are real easy to slip out of.
    >
    > I had planned on upgrading to clipless as I got use to the bike BUT during this learning time most
    > of my riding has changed from XC/minor bump single track to more all mountain/minor
    > freeride/technical type
    riding.
    >
    > Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to
    > falling much more than I use to.
    >
    > In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup. Its only the pure XC
    > type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this? And I'm guess its cause
    > clipless are, for lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's abilities and balance too
    > much during on the edge maneuvers. (Heh, I'd like to see BMX riders using clipless, HA!)
    >
    > I'm never used or tried clipless so I really have no clue as to what they feel like. I do downhill
    > ski very well so if its anything similar to that 'locked in a binding' type feel I know what thats
    > like. I really don't feel like shelling out $200 for some decent clipless pedals and shoes if I'm
    > not going to put them to good use most of the time.
    >
    > I guess the bottom line question is, what kind of riding do clipless pedals become a hindrance and
    > make their use more of a paranoia hazard annoyance than helpful?
     
  11. Mark

    Mark Guest

    I have been riding for almost 7 years now and I started on platforms until I got a decent bike. I
    think that it is best to learn some basic and intermediate skills on platforms and then upgrade to
    clipless for the added power (and IMO, control) and for prices, I have seen them for under $40 CAD
    (Pyramids - Oh so similar to the Popular Ritchey Pedals -
    http://www.bikeroom.com/product.cfm?ProductID=332) and even shoes can be cheap. I ride a pair of old
    Richey pedals with a new pair of Answer Palisade shoes (I paid $89.99 CAD for the shoes) All the BS
    about the un-safeness of clipless is a myth! the only time i fell because of my pedals was the first
    time riding on them. (Funny story - almost took out a large family of Japanese tourists in Whistler,
    BC) If you are worried about not having time to clip in to them, say on a steep uphill after a stop,
    invest in a pair of clipless with a platform around them (such as Shimano 646s -
    http://www.bikeroom.com/product.cfm?ProductID=117).

    oh well - enjoy whatever decision you make

    ride on, ride hard - keep it rowdy

    mark
     
  12. "Destroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > ...but slightly differently.

    Try both and then decide. Make your own decision based on the type of riding you do, not what you
    see people riding in the magazines, or what people half-way around the world recommend.

    Steve.
     
  13. Westie

    Westie Guest

    "The Ogre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Destroy <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > ...but slightly differently.
    >
    > > Needless to say, due to the more technical and rapid riding, I'm falling or coming close to
    > > falling much more than I use to.
    > >
    > > In the mountain bike mags I rarely see the riders using the clipless setup.
    >
    > Some of the magazines I read the women use strap ons and chase each other around the room with
    > bull whips. I haven't met any that do this in person. Reality doesn't necessarily reflect what you
    > see in magazines.

    I can feel my eyes watering just thinking about that...

    > > Its only the pure XC type riders that seem to use them. There must be a reason for this?
    >
    > What exactally is a "pure XC type" rider? This seems to be just about everyone I know and ride
    > with. I figure when it comes to Mountain Biking there is XC which means you go up and down hill,
    > or Downhill where you get dropped off at the top.
    >
    > > And I'm guess its cause clipless are, for lack of better term, 'less safe' i.e. hinders one's
    > > abilities and balance too much during on the edge maneuvers.
    >
    > Matter of opinion. Downhill racers use platforms, I guess it depends on what terrain you are
    > riding. I have ridden with a lot of people who have put a lot of miles on their bikes over some
    > pretty rough stuff that would disagree with your guess.

    Just a thought about that. I've never really spent much time downhilling or examining
    downhilling but:

    Downhill= not much pedalling -->little in the way of force/foot movement on a pedal-->not as likely
    your foot will slip off.

    Everythingelse = pedalling, sometimes with lots of body/foot movement, and effort = lots of foot
    movement-->foot more likely to twist/move off pedal.

    FWIW; I wouldn't swap out my clipless for anything nowadays. SWMBA is learning with
    clipless.Yesterday on her second day out with clipless, spent 26km on a technical trail with lots of
    wet rocks, beech tree leaves and roots. Although she had a couple of moments when she wanted to
    throw bike into the forest due to frustration at learning to clip in, she can feel the benefits
    already and is keen to leave them on.
    --
    Westie
     
  14. Ed Y.

    Ed Y. Guest

    "Jack" <[email protected]> wrote in message:
    > I have clipless and I only use them for racing. I always use flats when I ride for fun. I think a
    > lot of people jump into clipless too fast without learning some basic skills with flats.
    >
    > http://www.mountainbike.com/mbhelp/skills/1101_flats.shtml

    Couldn't agree more. This is only my second year of serious riding, I started riding with clipless
    pedals almost right away, but had switched to platforms this season and realized that I'm missing
    some basics. The article above lays it down pretty well. Bunny hoping for once: I had to learn to
    bunny hope all over again, and it gave me a HUGE improvement when I do it with clipless pedals,
    because you never learn the proper form when you can just pull the back wheel up with the clips.

    Another consideration: if you go with clipless and do drops and jumps, you MUST have platforms
    around the clips (and many downhillers use this setup). If you do a drop or jump, regular clipless
    pedals will take the initial impact when you lend, but then they rebound and you can often be
    "thrown out" of the clips. That happened to me many times when I started doing some drops, and that
    was the initial reason for me to switch to flats. If you have platforms around clips, they will take
    the impact, and you should stay clipped in.

    From my experience, using good flats with pins and good grippy shoes (Intense or Vans) can be
    _almost_ as efficient in pedaling as clipless (I do 30 miles a day a few times a week) while giving
    you other options clipless can't: jumping, "freeride" drops, basic tricks (bunny hop, wheelie,
    manual, etc).

    PS Some pro BMX racers do use clipless too.
     
  15. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    Ed Y. wrote:

    > Another consideration: if you go with clipless and do drops and jumps, you MUST have platforms
    > around the clips (and many downhillers use this setup). If you do a drop or jump, regular clipless
    > pedals will take the initial impact when you lend, but then they rebound and you can often be
    > "thrown out" of the clips.

    Pedals rebounding and throwing you out. Right...

    > From my experience, using good flats with pins and good grippy shoes (Intense or Vans) can be
    > _almost_ as efficient in pedaling as clipless (I do 30 miles a day a few times a week) while
    > giving you other options clipless can't: jumping, "freeride" drops, basic tricks (bunny hop,
    > wheelie, manual, etc).

    So much misinformation in one paragraph. In fact, every single thing you wrote was wrong. Well done.
     
  16. On 11 Aug 2003 08:37:47 -0700, [email protected] (Ed Y.) wrote:

    >"Jack" <[email protected]> wrote in message:
    >> I have clipless and I only use them for racing. I always use flats when I ride for fun. I think a
    >> lot of people jump into clipless too fast without learning some basic skills with flats.
    >>
    >> http://www.mountainbike.com/mbhelp/skills/1101_flats.shtml
    >
    >Couldn't agree more. This is only my second year of serious riding,

    Oops.

    "serious"?

    >Another consideration: if you go with clipless and do drops and jumps, you MUST have platforms
    >around the clips (and many downhillers use this setup). If you do a drop or jump, regular clipless
    >pedals will take the initial impact when you lend, but then they rebound and you can often be
    >"thrown out" of the clips.

    Wow!

    That's a joke, right?

    http://www.petefagerlin.com/fullimages/p_stump_f.jpg

    How did he, and the thousands of otherr folks who jump or drop using "regular" clipless
    pedals survive?
     
  17. Penny S.

    Penny S. Guest

    >> Another consideration: if you go with clipless and do drops and jumps, you MUST have platforms
    >> around the clips (and many downhillers use this setup). If you do a drop or jump, regular
    >> clipless pedals will take the initial impact when you lend, but then they rebound and you can
    >> often be "thrown out" of the clips.
    >
    > Wow!
    >
    > That's a joke, right?
    >
    > http://www.petefagerlin.com/fullimages/p_stump_f.jpg
    >
    > How did he, and the thousands of otherr folks who jump or drop using "regular" clipless pedals
    > survive?

    It was a fluke.
    Nice outfit, btw.

    Penny
     
  18. P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email protected]> writes:

    > On 11 Aug 2003 08:37:47 -0700, [email protected] (Ed Y.) wrote:
    >
    > >"Jack" <[email protected]> wrote in message:
    [snip]
    > >take the initial impact when you lend, but then they rebound and you
    --------------------------------------------------------^^^^^^^

    [snip]
    > How did he, and the thousands of otherr folks who jump or drop using "regular" clipless pedals
    > survive?

    He's got _rebound_ damping on that bike, right?

    --
    __o | Øyvind Røtvold _`\(, | http://www.darkside.no/olr/index.html (_)/(_) | ... biciclare
    necesse est ...
     
  19. i second the nice suit..where can i get one of those...?????

    ;-) mark
     
  20. Mark Hainsworth" <[email protected]> wrote
    > i second the nice suit..where can i get one of those...?????
    >

    Europe.

    C.
     
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