Commuting - Road Position

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:01:13 GMT, JulesF
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂 )Unless you’re going to wait, which defeats one of the advantages of )being on a bike, you can’t
:stay in the primary or secondary )position. You have a choice of either pushing up the inside with
🙂very little clearance or going on the outside (but still on the left )of the white lines). )
🙂Having been knocked off by a taxi, deciding without looking to skip the )queue by turning right
:into a residential area just in front of me, I’m )not confident about going on the outside.

But that's the place to be. The further from the cars as possible - so if one does pull out, at
least there's a bigger gap between you and it. Also watch out for where front wheels are pointing -
they generally have more of a clue as to where a vehicle's going than indicator lights !
--
Comm again, Mike.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:15:21 +0000, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂JulesF wrote: ) )> What do other people do 😕 ) )It will depend on the exact layout of any
:particular situation, I don't )think there's a single "this is what you should do" answer. I will
🙂variously either undertake, overtake, stay put, get off and walk or any )combination thereof
:according to my assessment of any given queue. )

Very reasonable - except the walking bit 😉
--
Comm again, Mike.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:21:16 +0000, Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]>
wrote:

🙂I try to use the outside on single carriageway roads, although it's a )bit hairy when someone is
:so far out that it puts you over the white )line.

Only a little bit.

You must be confident that you can sprint back to the kerb if it
🙂all starts to move.

Why ? I don't have a problem letting the odd car "undertake" me.

Reminds me a bit of the time I passed a learner who didn't seem to be allowing me back to the kerb
side - so I indicated left. The learner hit the kerb !

🙂 )Going up the inside tends to provoke aggressive actions from drivers, )ranging from verbal abuse
:to doorings. The Highway Code, IIRC, is )rather vague on this issue - it says you should overtake
:on the right )(except in one way streets or if the vehicle in front is turning right, )when you can
:use the left) but also advises motorists to look out for )cyclists overtaking on the inside! )
🙂Most of the time I just stay with the traffic if it's moving - it )doesn't slow me down too much -
:and I sneak up the inside if lights are )the cause of the holdup and everything really is
:stationary. This is )because the lights on my run are on a dual carriageway with a 50mph )limit,
:and I'm not going to get caught between the lanes when everything )starts off again! )

--
Comm again, Mike.

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:56:38 -0000, "John Mallard"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂Never, ever undertake trucks and buses. Unless you can see for absolute )certain that they cannot
:move, and will not be able to for some time. )

Hmm, they make damned good shields when entering a roundabout !
--
Comm again, Mike.

On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:32:33 +0000, Garry Broad
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂 )As far as the outside is concerned, I'd say just be slightly cautious )of getting stranded there
:in the middle of the road if you're passing )a line of stationary traffic on your left one minute
:and then the next )it's beginning to move off again, and you can't get back 'in lane'. )I kind of
:don't like that feeling! )

Practice dealing with the situation more - it's quite survivable no matter what the traffic's doing.
--
Comm again, Mike.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:02:40 GMT, danielstevens
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂yes, i think everyone who cycles in london has this dilema. I don't like )cycling on the outside
:either, i actually tried this for the 2nd or 3rd )time last week and had a very hairy moment,
:pressed the back brake a bit )to hard a slewed to the right lane (oncoming traffic) with a car
🙂speeding towards me. Not Nice.

Chicken !

I generally will use the wrong side of the road - most on-coming motorists are quite tolerant of
this and accomodating. But one has to be prepared to pull in to one's own side when necessary.
--
Comm again, Mike.

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 13:52:10 -0000, "Peter Owens"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂 )Squeezing between lorries and the kerb is a VERY bad idea. Trucks have )very big blind spots and
:will tend to move out to the right before making )a left turn to give them a bigger radius. Also if
:you are taking a left hand )bend )the middle of the truck will pass much closer to the kerb than
:the front or )back.

Depending on where the wheels are along the truck. You need to know a few things before taking
advantage of such a facilitiy. Like when overtaking them, it's good to know what's in front of the
truck so you can anticipate where the driver's going - in case he deviates around some obstacle.
--
Comm again, Mike.

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 20:50:41 -0000, "Danny Colyer"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂But I'm not too worried about being held up by a motorcyclist once in 11 )years of cycle commuting

You probably won't believe I was "hit" by a motorcycle coming out of a side road. He waited
patiently for me to approach, then moved as I was passing him. He hit the back of the bike and was
as surprised as I think you might be ! Fortunately, no real damage - to either of us !

🙂What I find very frustrating (and it happens to me most mornings) is )when I want to pass the
:queue of traffic behind a car waiting to turn )right. Because the car at the front of the queue is
:turning right, I'll )pass on the inside.

Mistake !

Pass on the outside those cars not _turning_* right. There's usually a gap between the front of the
one behind the one turning to get a bike through.

* Includes those indicating but unable to go anywhere !
--
Comm again, Mike.

pmailkeey said:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 15:01:13 GMT, JulesF <[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂 )Unless you're going to wait, which defeats one of the advantages of )being on a bike, you
:can't stay in the primary or secondary )position. You have a choice of either pushing up the
:inside with )very little clearance or going on the outside (but still on the left )of the white
:lines). ) )Having been knocked off by a taxi, deciding without looking to skip
the 🙂queue by turning right into a residential area just in front of me, I'm 🙂not confident
about going on the outside.

But that's the place to be. The further from the cars as possible - so if one does pull out, at
least there's a bigger gap between you and it. Also watch out for where front wheels are pointing
- they generally have more of a clue as to where a vehicle's going than indicator lights !

The one and only time I've ever been knocked off was when a driver suddenly turned right (without
indicating) as I was passing a very long line of traffic in Bournemouth. I was parallel to his front
wing when he swung out and took me with him (quite a force these things have!).

I was accused of 'creeping up' without him seeing me (it was not a commando operation I can
assure you!).

Anyway, I still use the outside as it is far safer and easier (and more legal) than the tricky
inside route. I just go much more carefully and never assume that drivers are not going to do
something completely unexpected. Watch them, especially, at right hand side-roads in jams (they tend
to leap out without indcating when they see the opportunity).

Simon

Simonb said:

I was accused of 'creeping up' without him seeing me (it was not a commando operation I can
assure you!).

Obviously. You should have apparoached from the area directly between his eyes and the stoplights of
the car in front. How else can you expect him to see you?

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

pmailkeey said:

Mistake !

Pass on the outside those cars not _turning_* right. There's usually a gap between the front of
the one behind the one turning to get a bike through.

IME that's true only if you equate 'usually' to 'about 5% of the time'. This is partly because,
riding a recumbent, my BB is about 2' in front of my front wheel and as such I need a slightly
bigger gap than I would on a wedgie.

Also, at the place this usually happens to me more cars turn right than go straight on. If the
first car is turning right, the second car is going straight on and the third is turning right
(not uncommon), then it could be disastrous if the first car managed to turn as I was passing the
third car.

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my reply address)
speedy5.freeserve.co.ukdannyOpen ↗
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

[email hidden] (pmailkeey) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:56:38 -0000, "John Mallard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂Never, ever undertake trucks and buses. Unless you can see for absolute )certain that they
:cannot move, and will not be able to for some time. )

Hmm, they make damned good shields when entering a roundabout !

but they can give that effect from the other side. Even if the other driver doesn't see you or feels
that s/he can ignore you they aren't going to squish you if there is a big vehicle just the other
side of you. Of course riding this close is a dangerous game

best wishes james

[email hidden] (james) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (pmailkeey) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:56:38 -0000, "John Mallard"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hmm, they make damned good shields when entering a roundabout !

but they can give that effect from the other side. Even if the other driver doesn't see you or
feels that s/he can ignore you they aren't going to squish you if there is a big vehicle just the
other side of you.

[censored]! You've got faith. Have you never come across the aftermath of a crunch where a vehicle
on the roundabout has run smack into the side of one entering it? I would not fancy being the meat
in that particular sandwich.

On the left of the truck you are shielded to some extent even if something does run into it.

--
Dave...

(Dave Kahn) said:

On the left of the truck you are shielded to some extent even if something does run into it.

You are also invisible, so if the truck pulls away from you you will be at immense risk. Oh, and
the truck might turn off at the next exit, swinging round and taking you with it. I prefer to
avoid trucks.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 19:21:54 -0000, "Danny Colyer"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂Also, at the place this usually happens to me more cars turn right than )go straight on. If the
:first car is turning right, the second car is )going straight on and the third is turning right
🙁not uncommon), then it )could be disastrous if the first car managed to turn as I was passing )the
:third car.

You have to judge the possibility of that.

Of course, if they set off while you were overtaking them, they're in the wrong !
--
Comm again, Mike.

Where I do most of my commuting (manchester) there are an awful lot of busses and bus stops so I generally find that it is better to go up the outside because then there isn't the hold up of passengers getting on and off the busses. I had a nasty accident a week or two ago where a passnger having just got off the bus decided to cross in front of it. I went round the outside to avoid the bus, never saw them and nailed straight into them. (ouch :s)

As a point of interest, where there are bus lanes, is it safer to cycle on the inside of the bus lane or the outside of the bus lane (inside of the first "real" lane)??

Never managed to quite work that one out....

Oh and I forgot to add ,

As said above NEVER EVER EVER EVER undertake a big lorry. The general rule of thumb is that if you CANT see THEIR wingmirrors, then they DEFINITELY CANNOT SEE YOU, and even if you can it is still best to stay well away. I know two people who have been killed because of lorries. One got crushed under the wheels and another got crunched into a railing thingy that separates pavement from road by an articulate. Lorries are the main thing that scares me ****less when riding on roads. I normally hop onto the pavement and stop dead if i see one coming as they have a VEY restricted view.

davebee said:

As said above NEVER EVER EVER EVER undertake a big lorry.

What about when the lory is on a straight, there's plenty of room on the inside, and you can see a
solid traffic jam ahead and know for sure you'll have time to pass the lorry long before the traffic
moves? There are exceptions to every rule.

~PB

davebee said:

As a point of interest, where there are bus lanes, is it safer to cycle on the inside of the bus
lane or the outside of the bus lane (inside of the first "real" lane)??

I think inside of bus lane - I'm happy there (except for the naff surfaces they often have). Buses
will see you and can either overtake or follow, and you won't cause aggro to cars on the outside
lane (which might end up affecting you in some way).

~PB

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Pete Biggs

Bdavebee said:

As said above NEVER EVER EVER EVER undertake a big lorry.

What about when the lory is on a straight, there's plenty of room on the inside, and you can see a
solid traffic jam ahead and know for sure you'll have time to pass the lorry long before the traffic
moves? There are exceptions to every rule.

~PB [/B]

you might have a fair point there. Just had too many close calls with the big lorries to feel safe. I just try and stay as far away from them as possible. I figure its better to lose a minute or two of my time than get crunched, even if it does seem completely safe.

Basically they scare me sh!tless :eek: