Commuting - Road Position

In message <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

davebee said:

As said above NEVER EVER EVER EVER undertake a big lorry.

What about when the lory is on a straight, there's plenty of room on the inside, and you can see a
solid traffic jam ahead and know for sure you'll have time to pass the lorry long before the
traffic moves? There are exceptions to every rule.

Yes, I would never say never undertake them, but be careful.

As they taught us on my motorcycle training course many years ago, don't go into a gap if you can't
get out of it.
--
Chris French, Leeds

davebee said:

Oh and I forgot to add ,

As said above NEVER EVER EVER EVER undertake a big lorry.

I've also learnt the scary way that its best to try to discourage them from overtaking you on a left
bend (by taking the ultra-primary position until after the bend) or stopping as soon as they do
start overtaking you. Otherwise their nearside wheel line start out a couple of metres from you as
the cab draws level and gradually moves to intersect your handlebar before (of if you're lucky, just
after) the rear end gets past.

I've had a near-miss every time I've found myself in this situation and have drawn the conclusion
that as well as all the optical blind spots, the drivers always (IME) have a mental blind spot that
stops them from realising that the cyclists they overtake are moving. Other motor vehicle drivers
have this mental blind spot, too, but it's less dangerous because of their and relatively high speed
and lack of wheelbase length!

--
Mark

davebee of cyclingforums.com said:

Where I do most of my commuting (manchester) there are an awful lot of busses and bus stops so I
generally find that it is better to go up the outside because then there isn't the hold up of
passengers getting on and off the busses. I had a nasty accident a week or two ago where a passnger
having just got off the bus decided to cross in front of it. I went round the outside to avoid the
bus, never saw them and nailed straight into them. (ouch :s)

As a point of interest, where there are bus lanes, is it safer to cycle on the inside of the bus
lane or the outside of the bus lane (inside of the first "real" lane)??

Never managed to quite work that one out....

I also live in Manchester, close to Wilmslow Road, which reputedly has the most frequent bus service
in Western Europe. Thousands of students live just off it. My answer to where to ride is on the next
road parallel to the one with the bus lanes. I ride at about the pace a Manchester bus achieves on a
busy road, so if I once encounter a bus I end up playing tag passing it at every stop and the bus
passes me in between stops. The less busy roads without bus lanes allow the buses to go faster and
there are fewer of them so there's no problem any more.

My experience is that it's the bus passengers who cause most problems, not the buses. I almost hit
someone who got off a bus, walked a few yards up the road and then set off across the road between
parked cars without looking. I yelled loudly at him, but as he had a mobile glued to his ear he
didn't hear. Fortunately my brakes managed to squeal me to a stop about two inches from him, at
which point he finally noticed me. After mumbling something that might have been an apology he then
set off across the road again without looking in the direction of oncoming traffic, mobile still
glued to his ear. I almost wish I'd braked a bit less and bumped him gently to teach him a lesson.
--
Wealth stays with us a little moment if at all:
only our characters are steadfast, not our gold.
Euripides
Steph Peters delete invalid from [email hidden]
Tatting, lace & stitching page <sandbenders.demon.co.ukindex.htmOpen ↗

davebee said:

As a point of interest, where there are bus lanes, is it safer to cycle on the inside of the bus
lane or the outside of the bus lane (inside of the first "real" lane)??

In the middle? The thing /I've/ never worked out is why SOV's[1] can only do 15 mph when you're
behind them, but always want to go 25 when you're in front.

1 - Stan's Own Vehicle

--

Dave Larrington - legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uklegslarry.beerdrinkers.co.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
bhpc.org.ukbhpc.org.ukOpen ↗
===========================================================

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:56:32 GMT, davebee
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂Oh and I forgot to add , ) )As said above NEVER EVER EVER EVER undertake a big lorry.

It's only oncoming ones turning right that I've had any problem with.
--
Comm again, Mike.

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:56:15 GMT, davebee
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂Where I do most of my commuting (manchester) there are an awful lot of busses and bus stops so I
:generally find that it is better to go up the outside because then there isn't the hold up of
:passengers getting on and off the busses. I had a nasty accident a week or two ago where a passnger
:having just got off the bus decided to cross in front of it. I went round the outside to avoid the
:bus, never saw them and nailed straight into them. (ouch :s)

They'd obviously forgotten the Green Cross Code. Were you badly hurt ?

In Brum, I'm wary of passing stationary buses in the City Centre for that very reason.

Some years ago, I had a bus almost pass me, stop to drop off a passenger who I nearly knocked back
into the bus. They were miles off the kerb !

🙂 )As a point of interest, where there are bus lanes, is it safer to cycle )on the inside of the
:bus lane or the outside of the bus lane (inside of )the first "real" lane)?? ) )Never managed to
:quite work that one out....

Thereabouts ! I generally treat them as a lane and cycle in the same position as I would if it
wasn't there. If the lane is currently in force and an illegal car is behind me, I take the primary
position 🙂
--
Comm again, Mike.

chris French said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Pete Biggs
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

davebee said:

As said above NEVER EVER EVER EVER undertake a big lorry.

What about when the lory is on a straight, there's plenty of room on the inside, and you can see a
solid traffic jam ahead and know for sure you'll have time to pass the lorry long before the
traffic moves? There are exceptions to every rule.

Yes, I would never say never undertake them, but be careful.

As they taught us on my motorcycle training course many years ago, don't go into a gap if you can't
get out of it.

Following on from JulesF's message. . .

Quoted message said:

What do other people do 😕

Outside unless there is a good reason for the inside. It is faster, you have more room to
manoeuvre/get out of trouble and if you do it at the same time most days so will the car drivers who
will get used to seeing their arch enemy whizzing past them.

As you're talking about lights you may find the oncoming lane is frequently free in which case
remember you are free to use that unless there are solid lines in the way.

As for sudden right-turners, statistically you're just as likely to get sudden left-turners.

Ask the local council why there isn't an ASL and feeder lane. This /may/ be a good idea depending on
the circumstances. But be prepared for a [censored] reply so then you ask for the figures they based
their opinion on.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the e-commerce business came to a .
[email hidden]

Thanks for all the advice. I now mostly use the outside, but the change is to use the other lane, when there aren’t any oncoming vehicles 😉

My mistake was to stick to the left of the line. Feels a lot better with more space and I can pass all those slow cars!!

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:45:43 GMT, JulesF
<[email hidden]> wrote:

🙂Thanks for all the advice. I now mostly use the outside, but the change )is to use the other lane,
:when there aren’t any oncoming vehicles 😉 ) )My mistake was to stick to the left of the line.
:Feels a lot better with )more space and I can pass all those slow cars!!

Just watch out for vehicles coming out of right junctions ahead who prolly don't anticipate a
vehicle on the wrong side of the road !
--
Comm again, Mike.