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Critique requested

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Cycling Equipment
Published
10 October 2003
Last activity
13 November 2003
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Claire Petersky
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  1. In rec.bicycles.misc Raoul Duke <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : Just how expensive is a Seven?

    everything is no fork.

    Elium Ultra-butted Ti and carbon fiber $3595 Alta Ultra-butted Titanium $3295 Odonata Butted Ti and
    carbon fiber $3195 Axiom Butted titanium $2695 Alaris Straight-gauge titanium $1995 Elium Butted
    steel and carbon fiber $2295 Axiom Butted steel $1495

    waterford butted steel $1600 to $2000 litespeed vortex Butted ti (not custom) $2400 calfee custom
    tetra carbon $2400 co-motion custom espresso butted steel* $1410 habanero custom road $ 995 davidson
    straight gauge ti $1995 davidson double butted ti $2399 davidson butted steel $1199 davidson
    ultralight butted steel $1299

    spectrum cycles no prices online merlin cycles no prices online independent fabrications no
    prices online

    * with fork.
    --
    david reuteler [email hidden]

  2. Paul said:

    with a frame price of $3595 I would really look good at the back of the pack. :-)

    Lordy, lordy, lordy. You do know you'd look the same riding any other frame with Seven decals. That
    is a lot to pay for decals.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | There is always an easy solution to every human problem - neat, _`\(,_ | plausible, and
    wrong. --H.L. Mencken (_)/ (_) |

  3. Doug Pearl said:

    Many of the comments in this thread are essentially reverse snobbery: "I ride a piece of [censored] 20
    yr old bike, and this makes me better than all those yuppies on overpriced Ti, etc etc". I am
    not a money wasting idiot (I drive a 94 Civic), but jeezus you might as well live a little now
    and then...

    OK, I ride (on the road) a twelve year old steel bike which was not even a great model in its day.
    But it's very comfortable, performs very nicely, is very nice to ride and I like it. I've been
    drooling recently over a particular carbon monocoque frame which costs three times as much as my
    whole bike did all those years ago. I could afford it but I probably shan't buy it because, apart
    from looking more flash, what would it really buy me?

    OTOH, I've just bought myself a _very_ nice full suspension hill bike, and I'm really
    pleased with it.

    But the issue is not, is it the latest, flashiest thing or not, but do you personally get pleasure
    out of it? If you do get pleasure out of it, what does it matter how old it is? If you don't, what's
    the point in having it?

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) jasmine.org.uk~simon

    Do not sail on uphill water.
    - Bill Lee

  4. Quoted message said:

    Lordy, lordy, lordy. You do know you'd look the same riding any other frame with Seven decals.
    That is a lot to pay for decals.

    Remember that a $4,000 frame can be more affordable to a successful businessman than a $200 frame is
    to a person who works at a fast food restaurant.

  5. In rec.bicycles.tech David L. Johnson <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : That is weird. I would say that changing the length/height ratio to fit the body is the one
    : characteristic of a custom frame. If not, why not just get a stock size that fits one or the
    : other? Placement of cable stops is unimportant.

    well, they certainly do that .. apparently only up until a point. i'd imagine the dimensions of
    chalo's frame were way to one side of the boundary condition and they didn't feel comfortable
    scaling beyond that.

    which shows a certain lack of imagination, imho.
    --
    david reuteler [email hidden]

  6. Doug Pearl from . said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Kevan Smith

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:45:41 -0700, Doug Pearl <[email hidden]> from Altopia Corp. - Usenet

    Access - www.altopia.com said:

    "I ride a piece of [censored] 20 yr old bike, and this makes me better than all those yuppies on
    overpriced Ti, etc etc".

    Yeah? It's all in the legs, anyway. Fabrizzio could drop you no matter what you rode.

    And? What does that have to do with this discussion? Anybody who knows anything knows it's the
    rider not the bike. Again, not relevant to the discussion.

    If it's the rider and not the bike, then what does it matter at all what the bike is?

    --
    home.sport.rr.comcuthulu human rights = peace a circuit basically humps after Scotland
    4:00:55 PM 13 October 2003

  7. David L. Johnson said:
    Chalo said:

    However, I will say this: In my search for a custom frame, I found that Seven would not offer a
    custom frame to fit me. That is, they would not scale the length of a frame for me in proportion
    to its height. I wonder what good a "custom" frame is, if it does not offer this characteristic
    at least!

    That is weird. I would say that changing the length/height ratio to fit the body is the one
    characteristic of a custom frame. If not, why not just get a stock size that fits one or the
    other? Placement of cable stops is unimportant.

    I see that you, Perre, and I all agree in principle on this matter.

    Seven would probably say that varying chainstay length up to 18 inches or top tube length up to 25
    inches (as an example-- I do not know what their specific limitations are) provides enough latitude
    to do "custom fitting" as they see it.

    I simply looked at a typical 18" MTB (an average size design-wise) and plugged in my "scaling
    factor" to get something like a 27" TT and 21" chainstays. I figured that would be a fine
    starting point.

    Seven were not alone in their unwillingness to do a frame like that. Rivendell refused too.
    Waterford Precision-- another production-custom frame maker-- also said they would not take on such
    a frame. They were accomodating enough to refer me to another framebuilder.

    I believe that a framebuilder either provides custom geometry, or they do not. To me, varying
    parameters within the range already provided by off-the-shelf frames does not warrant the claim that
    one builds custom geometry.

    Arvon (of Arvon Cycles in Alberta, Canada) makes some outstanding frames for tall folks, predicated
    upon the understanding that many of the desirable properties of a bike must be scaled to work well
    for different size riders.

    sandsmachine.combp arvon.htm

    Chalo Colina

  8. Paul,

    Now what prompted that response? You must be a Lightspeed rider. Don't waist your time attacking me.
    Go to Lightspeed and get your info. Publicly or privately held, you can get the info.

    PlonK! Kill file.

    "Paul Southworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Wax

    Quoted message said:

    Actually I heard it from a Lightspeed dealer.

    Which I guess is no impediment to being a fool. :-)

    --Paul

  9. In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Wax

    Quoted message said:

    Paul,

    Now what prompted that response?

    I was referring to the dealer.

    Have a good one.

    --Paul

    Quoted message said:

    You must be a Lightspeed rider. Don't waist your time attacking me. Go to Lightspeed and get your
    info. Publicly or privately held, you can get the info.

    PlonK! Kill file.

    "Paul Southworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Brian Wax

    Quoted message said:

    Actually I heard it from a Lightspeed dealer.

    Which I guess is no impediment to being a fool. :-)

    --Paul

  10. "Paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I have a Seven Axiom myself ... It all comes down to style. I will never win a race so I may as
    well look good at the back of the pack.

    Are you another alias for the guy who writes as "Fabrizio"?

  11. Brian Wax said:

    "Paul Southworth" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Brian Wax said:

    Actually I heard it from a Lightspeed dealer.


    Which I guess is no impediment to being a fool. :-)


    Now what prompted that response? You must be a Lightspeed rider. Don't waist your time
    attacking me.

    Actually, the dealer is the fool being referred to, not you - while you are a fool who believes any
    old nonsense he's told, Mr. Southworth had not yet mentioned that.
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

  12. Doug Pearl <[email hidden]> wrote: [Seven Axiom]

    Quoted message said:

    And I do enjoy having a bike that is unique.

    But you don't. Those of us with old bikes are much more likely to have unique machines, especially
    those of us that have had them repaired. _My_ bike is unique.
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

  13. David L. Johnson said:
    Paul said:

    with a frame price of $3595 I would really look good at the back of the pack. :-)


    Lordy, lordy, lordy. You do know you'd look the same riding any other frame with Seven decals. That
    is a lot to pay for decals.

    I see a big opportunity for Habanero here. :-)
    --
    David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!

  14. David Damerell said:
    David L. Johnson said:
    Paul said:

    with a frame price of $3595 I would really look good at the back of the pack. :-)


    Lordy, lordy, lordy. You do know you'd look the same riding any other frame with Seven decals.
    That is a lot to pay for decals.

    I see a big opportunity for Habanero here. :-)

    I see more of an opportunity for a decal printer... ;-)

    It's kind of funny though - I have a customer in Mexico who's putting Habanero decals on his Merlin.
    I often wonder how many people do the opposite.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

  15. Per Elmsäter said:
    Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles said:

    And, of course, I'd love to see you try out a TREK OCLV and see what you thought of the ride! :>😉

    That's what I've been trying to tell her from day one 😉

    After that try a Kestrel...

  16. In article <[email hidden]>, "David L. Johnson"

    Quoted message said:
    Paul said:

    with a frame price of $3595 I would really look good at the back of the pack. :-)

    Lordy, lordy, lordy. You do know you'd look the same riding any other frame with Seven decals.
    That is a lot to pay for decals.

    True, true!

    Ask Mark Hickey if Habanero would make you a frame for $695 with no deacals. Then you could get
    Seven decals to apply yourself.

    OK David - fess up! Is that a real Habanero or is it a Seven with fake decals???

    --
    ³Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness³

    - Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

  17. In rec.bicycles.misc Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : It's kind of funny though - I have a customer in Mexico who's putting Habanero decals on his
    : Merlin. I often wonder how many people do the opposite.

    i'm about to. got habanero on black panels?
    --
    david reuteler [email hidden]

  18. Paul said:

    Remember that a $4,000 frame can be more affordable to a successful businessman than a $200 frame
    is to a person who works at a fast food restaurant.

    And that's part of the point of a Seven right? People into bikes will know you have serius cash.

    JT
    *******************************************
    NB: reply-to address is munged

    Visit jt10000.comjt10000.com
    *******************************************

  19. "Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 09:26:16 -0700, Doug Pearl <[email hidden]> from .


    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Kevan Smith

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:45:41 -0700, Doug Pearl <[email hidden]> from


    Altopia

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Corp. - Usenet Access - www.altopia.com wrote:

    >"I ride a piece of [censored] 20 yr old bike, and this makes me better than all those yuppies on
    >overpriced Ti, etc etc".

    Yeah? It's all in the legs, anyway. Fabrizzio could drop you no matter


    what

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    you rode.

    And? What does that have to do with this discussion? Anybody who knows anything knows it's the
    rider not the bike. Again, not relevant to the discussion.

    If it's the rider and not the bike, then what does it matter at all what


    the

    Quoted message said:

    bike is?

    Yeah, it's not the bike. As I already said, just buy a plastic big wheel and you "real" racers
    will be happy.

  20. Mark Hickey said:
    David Damerell said:
    David L. Johnson said:

    On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:15:51 +0000, Paul wrote:
    >with a frame price of $3595 I would really look good at the back of the pack. :-)
    Lordy, lordy, lordy. You do know you'd look the same riding any other frame with Seven decals.
    That is a lot to pay for decals.

    I see a big opportunity for Habanero here. :-)

    I see more of an opportunity for a decal printer... ;-)

    It's kind of funny though - I have a customer in Mexico who's putting Habanero decals on his
    Merlin. I often wonder how many people do the opposite.

    Well, Mark, your decals aren't the best part of your frames.... Maybe Seven has better decals.
    Probably not $2,900 worth, though.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're _`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly
    Tomlin (_)/ (_) |

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